freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2018-11-25

Xenguyesr: Hello, if you are the real deal, I saw you speak in Ottawa one time00:50
XenguyWelcome, in any case00:51
esrXenguy: Yup, it's me. I was in Ottawa.00:56
esrXenguy: Did you see the backscroll?  I tried to put Devuan on a fairly recent Intel Nuc and failed because it couldn't see the NIC.00:57
esrIniel NUC, sorry.00:57
esrWas trting to get some idea when the next spin of the install CD might ship.00:58
XenguyNot sure about that.  Just upgrading to 'stable' myself, and trying to get things reconfigured etc.01:04
Xenguyesr ^^01:04
esrXenguy: The window of opportuity has passed unless and until I get another NUC - that one is my wife's desk PC now, running Mint and No To Be Disturbed.01:06
XenguyAny home network has its politics : -)01:06
armin:D01:07
arminmy girlfriends laptop runs kde neon, she would kill me if i manage to break it01:07
XenguyI have no idea, for example, how I kept my wife and child *trapped* on GNU/Linux for so long 8 -D01:07
esrI might re-image my mailserver though. Presently running Ubuntu on a generic fanless brick called a Jetway.  I have another Jetway where the Devuan install was uneventful so that ought to be OK.01:08
XenguyEventually they both broke 'free'01:08
arminalso, hi esr, i read the backlog but i'm a bit unsure what "couldn't see the NIC" meant. does it appear in lspci/lsusb?01:08
Xenguyesr: I want to try one of these 'fanless' units sometime01:09
Xenguyesr: Would one of those be suitable as a router/gateway ?01:09
Xenguye.g. low power usage etc. ?01:09
esrAppears in lspci but presents a type/subtype pair the kernel doesn't recognize.01:09
esrXenguy: Yes, very much so.01:10
XenguyHot diggity01:11
esrI just decomissioned the last tower in my house other than the Great Beast (my repository-surgery monster hot rod), which is a special case.  They've all been replaces by comoute bricks.01:12
esr*compur bricks.01:12
arminesr: i believe it's because devuan tends to be free and not to include some binary blobs drivers, but i could be wrong.01:12
XenguyTOMEGA ?01:12
esrarmin: Nah, it's rhe e100 driver.  There was just a missing alias.01:12
esre1000 I mean.01:12
arminesr: ah, yes, you mentioned that earlier already, my bad.01:13
arminesr: out of curiosity: are you currently using a mechanical keyboard?01:13
esrXenguy: Yup, To Mega Therion. Semi-custom hardware optimized for high banwudth to memory.01:14
XenguyAwesome, cheers01:14
esrarmin: Sure am. Model M all the way, baby!01:14
armin:D01:14
esrSo yeah I'm going all compute bricky except for the Beast and (I hope) all Devuan.  Well, I may not get to re-image minx (my wife's NUC) for a while.01:16
arminwhat's "The Beast"?01:16
esrarmin: Semi-custom PC optimized for high bandwidth and max single-core speed.  It's job is basically to do graph-yjeory computations on data sets many gigabytes wide.  Surgery on version-control repositories.01:18
arminInteresting. :-)01:19
esrVery.01:19
esrIt's the macine I moved the Wmacs history from bzr to git on, among other things.01:19
esrWmacs -> Emacs.01:19
arminnow i have to keep thinking of "the cathedral and the git".01:21
esr:-)01:21
esrPfesently ranslating reposurgeon to Go because Python hit a performance wall.01:22
esrAm liking Go a lot recently.01:22
arminesr: I actually implemented a shell prompt builder for ZSH in python once that I rebuilt in Go because of this. My implementation is conceptionally questionable though, wherein every time I hit the return key the prompt is being re-rendered, hence firing up a full blown python interpreter every time you hit Return on the shell. After I rewrote that in Go, I had to increase my keyboard repeat rate madly to hit01:24
arminthe race condition with the Go ELF binary.01:24
arminSo, yeah, the Go implementation is MUCH faster.01:25
esrExpecting at least 10x gain on my workload, but there's reason to suspect it might be up to 40x.01:26
arminesr: I can just say that in my personal experience the Go program was 6x faster than the Python correspondent. :)01:32
arminBut hey, that probably varies strongly about actual use-cases.01:32
arminOh. Seems like Masachuchetts is a good place for fast typing. Sean Wrona seems to be from there, too.01:36
esrI was born in Mass but don'rt live there.  Southeastern PA01:41
arminesr: well that guy reached 163wpm in a typing contest, that's honestly a lot. my personal highscore was 105wpm. (hey, at least that was on a devuan system!)02:05
esrI'm a ;ousy typist.02:29
XenguyI'm a touch typist at least, so that helps with using vim for instance03:06
boo_booI got to know that ESR is now using Devuan07:52
boo_booI am honoured to share a distribution with such a great man.07:55
boo_booAlso helped me IRL with his sex tips page. I was a loser before I read http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/sextips/ and never really understood how women wanted to be treated both in bed and outside of it. Now I have a wife and 4 kids and already shared my bed with 3 women besides her. Also using Devuan at work and digging it07:57
boo_booHis greatest work has been that page, really.07:57
man_in_shackchicks dig devuan07:58
boo_booi have it on my wife's laptop, kids are going to use it too ;)07:58
golinuxgood grief . . .08:00
LeanderI thought it was one of these bots... but it's not been k-lined yet08:21
DocScrutinizer05weekend, alcohol08:38
man_in_shackobviously Leander is a bot08:42
mchasardhi16:54
mchasardsomeone knows crows derivarive devuan ?16:56
filipdevuan_hi i installed openbox today and so far so good battery life is much longer however i wonder if there any nice tips for preserving battery life apart from using battery demanding apps18:40
filipdevuan_apart from not using*18:40
KatolaZfilipdevuan_: keeping your laptop off will help :P18:43
filipdevuan_yeah its hard but will try read more books ;P18:44
gnarfacefilipdevuan_: lower screen brightness, put kernel cpu frequency governor in powersave mode, and remount temporary and cache directories as tmpfs...18:58
gnarfacedunno if it'll spin the harddrive down by default or not but worth looking into that too18:58
gnarfaceand you can tune the commit intervals on some filesystems too18:59
gnarfacethe only thing that is gonna be worth more than half a percent or so is the cpu frequency governor18:59
gnarface(probably)19:00
gnarfacewell, the screen brightness might be a lot too, if you have it cranked way up19:00
gnarfaceyou can change out your desktop themes for dark stuff to save a bit more power in theory, i dunno if that's true for all hardware though19:00
gnarfacefor some stuff at least, they say black costs less battery power than white19:01
rwpWith OLED displays where every pixel is an LED it is the bright pixels that use power.  Dark ones much less power.19:03
rwpI would always swap out a spinning drive for an SSD in a mobile laptop these days.19:03
gnarfaceoh, yea if you're spending money on it you can probably lower the battery cost of the fans by re-applying the thermal paste19:04
gnarfacethat'll lower operating temperatures which in turn should lower fan speeds19:05
gnarfacethat might be getting a little crazy though19:05
filipdevuan_yeah my brightness is ok19:05
filipdevuan_lowering in all the time but not because of battery but because of my eyes ;D19:05
filipdevuan_i quite enjoy openbox, xfce is quite boring19:05
filipdevuan_i managed to get tint2 now taskbar is it19:06
rwpYou might want to look at the 'tlp' tool.19:06
filipdevuan_oh yeah downloading it now19:08
filipdevuan_btw i uninstalled pulseaudio and java apps stopped play sound i have no idea why :/19:08
gnarfacei'd think there's a way around that19:08
gnarfacemight require some java-specific knowledge to re-assign alsa or oss as the audio device19:09
gnarfacesome environment variable maybe19:09
filipdevuan_damn i got disconnected19:14
filipdevuan_yeah its java games that i play wont play any sound19:15
filipdevuan_im so bored with this proprietary games id love to find some nice open source games where for example i can create magician and conquer evil19:17
filipdevuan_btw what really irritates me atm is when i put audio cd to laptop i use alsaplayer to play it and then when i put another cd it wont detect it either in vlc that is annoying very much and i dont know why something like that happens19:21
filipdevuan_if i reset laptop then it detects it again but it seems like os stucks at first cd i put and then second one is unplayable :(19:22
furrywolfpeople still own CDs?  :)19:23
filipdevuan_why not?19:26
filipdevuan_i have tapes, vinyls, cds, is something wrong with it??19:27
furrywolfI got rid of all my physical media a while ago...  my entire bookshelf of vinyl fills a fraction of a thumbdrive.19:28
filipdevuan_and why did u get rid of all media19:30
furrywolfbecause I'd much rather fill half my house with something else.19:30
filipdevuan_so now you have no music how sad19:32
furrywolfno, now I have *runs find* 2920 albums, that fill a fraction of a thumbdrive.  :)19:33
golinuxUntil the drive fails . . . (as all things eventually do)19:37
furrywolfbackups.19:37
furrywolfalso, much of my vinyl, and all of my tapes, failed.19:37
furrywolfvinyl fails a little more every time you play it...  and tapes fail even sitting untouched.19:38
furrywolfI never really had a CD collection, but my CD-Rs have failed too...  every one of them.  obviously, of course, factory-made CDs don't have the same issues.19:38
filipdevuan_well i prefer to have physical copy of music digital music is not nice speaking digital depeche mode songs will never sound like straight from vinyls no matter what so from my point of view i can say you have no music since there are files with sounds on your thumbdrive, but its not music just compressed sounds and your history about music didnt solve my problem with alsaplayer and reading CD's after i deleted19:42
filipdevuan_pulseaudio19:42
furrywolfyou're right, they'll never sound like vinyl...  they'll actually have treble.  :P19:44
furrywolfpulseaudio is utter crap19:44
filipdevuan_yeah so i wanna listen to depeche mode songs but i havent got vinyls cuz i have them in other country and digital sound is not what i hear on vinyls vinyls r better, same when i lkisten to music straight from cd rather than .wav file19:45
golinuxThis is OT for this channel btw19:46
furrywolf...  a wav file is literally bit-for-bit identical to the cd.19:48
filipdevuan_yeah i dont wanna OT here, sorry. pointless to talk about that one prefers listening to music from youtube or spotify one prefers cds or vinyls so according to your question yeah there are people that still own cds :)19:51
mchasardhi19:51
furrywolfI don't listen to music from youtube or spotify.  I get high-quality versions (flac and 320bps mp3) from rutracker.  :)19:52
furrywolfnote flac is, like wav, also bit-for-bit identical to the source cd.  :)19:52
filipdevuan_yeah its understandable but i still prefer to listen to music from hi fi systems not from laptops or smartphones19:52
poeinklumIs there a way I can avoid the repeated error messages I keep getting from evince instances (on my ASCII machine)?19:52
poeinklumErrors and warnings such as: "No offset found for match "P" at page 9 after processing 56 results"19:54
poeinklumand "ev_page_cache_get_annot_mapping: assertion 'page >= 0 && page < cache->n_pages' failed"19:54
poeinklumand "llocating size to EvWindow 0x55ef1439bcf0 without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). How does the code know the size to allocate?"19:54
furrywolfmy laptop is connected to 8 speakers containing 34 drivers and 1200 RMS watts of amplifier power.19:54
Pr0metheuspoeinklum are you using gnome?19:55
furrywolfbbl, my project today is, on a very related topic, building more shelves.  lol19:58
poeinklumPr0metheus: I'm using Xfce20:00
poeinklumumm, sorry,20:00
poeinklumI meant20:00
poeinklumI'm using Cinnamon20:00
poeinklum(... but in fallback mode because of some Intel on-board graphics vs non-graphic-use GPU)20:00
Pr0metheuswell I guess you get this errors/warnings in the log files, correct?20:01
mchasardwhich derivatives devuan to install the lighter please20:05
KatolaZpoeinklum: does evince work?20:05
filipdevuan_seriously i think listening do mp3s flacs or .wavs is for posers20:05
filipdevuan_its what kills music industry20:05
filipdevuan_theres snothing like having physical copy or something that you own you may lose your thumbdrive much easier than you would your cds20:06
filipdevuan_and if u havent got enough room for cds then perhaps you should buy bigger house20:06
filipdevuan_and i assure you listening to digital mps3 or .wavs will never be like listening to something straighjt from cd, and why you still contunue on this topic, its OF20:07
filipdevuan_OT*20:07
saptechhi all20:10
KatolaZhi saptech20:10
filipdevuan_hey20:11
saptechI have an ext. hdd with 2 partitions on it, one ext4 & one with ntfs. When I log in, I noticed they are both mounted and available for normal user20:11
saptechWhat causes this to happen?20:11
saptechI recently installed another distro but can't get the same behavior with the new distro20:12
poeinklumKatolaZ: Yes, it does work20:12
poeinklumNo crashes or strange behavior as far as the UI is concerned20:13
KatolaZpoeinklum: great20:13
poeinklumKatolaZ: It's essentially stderr junk (unless there's something I'm missing)20:13
KatolaZit's easy to see if it's stderr junk :)20:14
filipdevuan_btw i have question maybe OT is there any chance for example lets say i wanna create website but i dont wanna appear on google results (dont wanna be on their servers) is it even possible nowadays or every website has to be on google no matter what??20:25
Pr0metheusfilipdevuan_ check https://petermeadit.com/blog/block-web-crawlers/20:28
filipdevuan_thank you :)20:28
DocScrutinizer05robots:none20:28
DocScrutinizer05or along that line20:28
Pr0metheusrobots does not guarantee that it won't be listed20:29
DocScrutinizer05nah, Pr0metheus' headline gives it away20:29
DocScrutinizer05User-agent: * Disallow20:30
Pr0metheusanyone knows in C++ how I can properly use the new operator without messing with the overcommit settings?20:33
KatolaZPr0metheus: OT here, please20:34
Pr0metheusOT?20:35
booyahPr0metheus: sounds like a question for ##c++20:36
KatolaZOff-Topic20:36
KatolaZthis is a channel dedicated to Devuan20:36
Pr0metheuswell I already tried it on C++ but the problem is that it is a cross-topic because it is linux specific. The kernel has an overcommit feature, that means you want to allocate memory and it says OK i've done although this memory might not even exist at all!20:38
Pr0metheusanyway I'll try on another channel:P20:39
furrywolfmy approach is to not worry about it, and don't allocate more memory than I plan to actually use.20:40
Pr0metheusfurrywolf, good approach but in my case I need to invert some 100,000 x 100,000 matrices:P20:41
furrywolfit doesn't affect whether your operation works or not...  just whether it fails at allocation time or fails sometime in the middle of running.20:43
furrywolfI've never had to invert a matrix that big...  in fact, the only matrix inversion code I've written is hardcoded for 4x4.  lol20:44
KatolaZPr0metheus: this is not a Linux kernel channel, please20:45
KatolaZor a linux programming one20:45
KatolaZ:\20:45
golinuxKatolaZ: It's nearly impossible to herd the cats on this channel20:48
furrywolfwell duh, most of us aren't cats.  :)20:48
golinuxThey blather on and on OT20:48
* golinux almost included wolves 20:48
golinuxIf the chatter here indicates the state of Devuan, we're in trouble20:49
filipdevuan_sorry i sent a message where i said i have a problem with alsa and mounting audio cd's and furrywolf started offtopic with asking me who buys cd's nowadays :/20:52
KatolaZfilipdevuan_: np :)20:53
furrywolfI don't know if discussing the linux kernel counts as blathering...  off-topic, but it's still something worth of discussion somewhere.20:54
furrywolfbbl, back to building shelves20:55
KatolaZfurrywolf: it was not eve the linux kernel :D20:56
Pr0metheuswell the state of Devuan, I happily switched to Devuan and things are working fine, got rid of systemd made my system work faster and smoother, but I am generally concerned for how much longer we will be able to hac k this and how easy it will be as the kernel is already under control of companies and soon IBM will join the party20:59
KatolaZPr0metheus: according to the well-informed, Devuan should have disappeared 3.5 years ago21:00
KatolaZand it's still here21:00
KatolaZhow many years do you need before stopping being skeptical? :)21:00
KatolaZhow many releases>21:00
KatolaZ?21:00
KatolaZ:)21:00
Pr0metheusI don't know, I haven't found info on how many developers devuan has21:01
KatolaZPr0metheus: how woudl that change your opinion? :)21:01
filipdevuan_why would even devuan disappear??21:01
KatolaZhttps://devuan.org/os/team/21:02
KatolaZPr0metheus: ^^21:02
Pr0metheuswell if I wanted to dominate linux and this seems to be the case with all those integrated -d stuff (systemd, etc) I would integrate it in more and more packages. I don't think any team can compete the corporate resources of multinational companies21:03
KatolaZPr0metheus: this has not happened as yet21:03
Pr0metheustrue, but I wouldn't spend 20 billions if I didn't intend to move deeper21:04
KatolaZbah, cheap talk :)21:04
KatolaZif you care about Devuan existing, help Devuan21:05
filipdevuan_well who said that newer packages gonna be better than the old ones21:05
KatolaZspeculations won't save the world21:05
KatolaZwill just make you sad21:05
KatolaZthe only way to change the future is to act now21:05
filipdevuan_the truth is if devuan is going to disappear its gonna be not because of rich companies but because of linux users who use systemd distributions and accept what they're being given21:06
KatolaZfilipdevuan_: then Devuan is not going to disappear21:06
KatolaZsince there are a lot of Linux users that do not accept what they have been given21:06
filipdevuan_yeah i think huge companies wouldn't have that much power without users21:07
filipdevuan_and customers21:07
KatolaZand do something to keep the ball rolling ;)21:07
Pr0metheusI did, replaced my 2 debians with devuan:P21:08
Pr0metheusI also replaced the kernel with the linux-libre kernel21:08
filipdevuan_i dont know i found website boykott systemd and i dislike google and they said systemd sets google dns by default so that was the thing that decided for me to try nonsystemd distro and devuan has graphical installer so i just installed it and im still on it im not really experienced linux user lol21:08
filipdevuan_oh and is linux libre any different or better21:09
KatolaZfilipdevuan_: the stock kernel from Debian *is* a libre kernel21:09
KatolaZunless you install non-free firmware21:09
filipdevuan_okay :>21:09
Pr0metheuslol, that's why I didn't see a difference:P21:09
filipdevuan_im scared of google so that google dns just freaked me out...21:10
KatolaZPr0metheus: the main difference is that the libre-linux kernel does not allow to load non-free firmware at all21:10
KatolaZbut the Debian kernel is completely free21:10
KatolaZ(if you just use 'main')21:11
Pr0metheuswell filip you cannot hide:P I read the article about ssh backdoor and all the probably hidden 'bugs' and it is very discouraging21:11
filipdevuan_at least i don't use google as search engine and i don't go on youtube at all. i also avoid google recaptchas on websites as much as i can.21:12
filipdevuan_and i also dont use systemd distros because theyre google dns not all of them but arch distros manjaro or antergos are google dns21:12
filipdevuan_i dont wanna contribute to their billions of dollars while i am poor and watching youtube or googling doesnt make me richer person21:13
Pr0metheusso you don't have a cell phone?21:14
golinuxI don't21:14
Pr0metheusreally?21:14
golinuxI refuse to go there.21:14
filipdevuan_nah i dont have a smartphone as well21:14
filipdevuan_i mean android or apple21:14
Pr0metheusso you guys never check mail while on the move?21:15
golinuxWell I do have an old filp phone in the car that I can use for 911 if I get stranded.21:15
golinuxBut it's not connected to an account21:15
filipdevuan_what makes you think that gmail is the only e-mail provider??21:15
golinuxI'm rarely on the move21:15
filipdevuan_same with me i spent most of my existence on the computer21:16
filipdevuan_:D21:16
filipdevuan_spend*21:16
Pr0metheusin my case I travel so it is not very easy to avoid using a smart phone21:19
filipdevuan_i really prefer to use laptop with devuan than any android or apple device21:20
filipdevuan_i wish i had a laptop made in europe though or made in england why is it all chinese :(21:21
Pr0metheusbut in any case, you can never be sure that all the rest of the software or hardware you use does not include backdoors21:21
Pr0metheuschinese cost less:P21:21
filipdevuan_id rather pay more and get something from european than from chinese who built laptop for a bowl of rice21:22
filipdevuan_yeah well... i don't think google results are great and also youtube is brainwashing. i used to go on youtube to listen to music but now when i realised that there's something like better sound than this from streaming services i don't go on there anymore21:23
filipdevuan_im simply scared21:23
Pr0metheuswell if you read about the motherboards that had spying software installed and the western digital hard disks sold in saudi arabia that also had this kind of software you wouldn't own a computer:P21:24
filipdevuan_yeah this is why id love to buy laptop assembled in europe not asia21:26
filipdevuan_im getting one from minifree.org next21:26
filipdevuan_however funny that guy who runs this website is a woman now21:26
golinuxPlease move OT to #debianfork21:30
filipdevuan_yeah im going there21:33
filipdevuan_i remember this guy that was coming here his nickname was xrogaan he was amazing he was the first guy who helped me on the irc i wonder if he still participate on irc sometimes23:18
xrogaanwhat?23:19
furrywolflol23:22
filipdevuan_ohh wow23:25
filipdevuan_nice to see you :D23:26
filipdevuan_what does it mean when user has blue dot by his nickname on the list??23:26
furrywolfit means you're using an IRC client that shows things with colored dots instead of anything standard that anyone else would know what it is.  lol23:27
rwpfilipdevuan_, It means that a user has been explicitly voiced and can speak in the channel even if +m is set in the channel.23:47
xrogaanI've got the power!23:49
rwpIt's either that or that funky thing xchat does that sets one of the user modes and displays the same way. :-)23:51
* furrywolf has never used a client that shows voice as anything other than a +23:53
Xenguyfilipdevuan_: re: blue dot: It means there is no spoon23:55
* Xenguy loves cryptic...23:55
furrywolflol23:57
Xenguy8 -D23:58

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