freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2018-12-08

arminjust making music on an 8 years old thinkpad x22004:06
Xenguyhas it been that long then?04:56
Xenguyarmin: is that a XFCE desktop?04:58
XenguyIn the screenshot I mean04:58
arminXenguy: yup06:31
rwpCool armin!  I am using my beloved x220 to type this right now. :-)06:45
arminrwp: :D06:52
arminx220 is love, x220 is life06:52
armineven though this machine is slowly but surely falling apart, it's still very valuable as a music making machine06:53
rwpMine is still in quite good shape.  However it is my daily driver.  I carry it in my backpack daily.  And that does take a toll on any machine.06:55
arminrwp: too true.06:55
rwpIt has the best keyboard of any of my Thinkpads.  Which is one of the reasons I am still using it.  I *love* the keyboard.06:55
arminrwp: on mine the fan is making noise, according to my girlfriend - i can hardly notice it06:56
rwpI have replaced my fan already.  Moving parts.  Bearings wear out.  Replacing fans on old laptops is often required.  Simple task easily and cheaply done.06:56
armini would have to replace the whole heatpipe i assume06:57
rwpNot required.  Just the fan itself.  Don't bend the heat pipe taking it off and on and it will be okay.06:58
rwpOn the other hand if one does squash the pipe the entire assembly isn't expensive either.  Since these are aged machines and broken machines for parts are readily available.06:58
rwpI am trying to remember if the x220 has the fan on the bottom requiring removing the motherboard first or not.  The x201 I remember needs that.06:59
rwpThere are guides with photos available on the net.  Working carefully through it should be possible with a little patience.07:00
rwpHaving a small (emphasis small) amount of heat sink paste for the assembly might be needed.07:01
rwpThe metal tape around the fan and the heat sink I have ever been able to remove and reuse without crinkling.  But no one will ever see it.  A little crinkle there is okay and won't hurt anything.07:01
rwpThe real professionals refurbishing that I am sure will use new metal tape there.07:02
decent-usernamehi, I'm trying to install devuan on my raspberry pi 3. I used the devuan_ascii_2.0.0_arm64_raspi3.img and I need to log in with the stock user account. The question is: What username and password are used for the user?10:33
buZzoh damn, what was it again10:35
buZzi dont think there s any user account on it though10:35
buZzdecent-username: user 'root' , password 'toor' ?10:35
decent-usernamethank you10:36
buZzdecent-username: first hit on
buZz(so you learn how to find this yourself in the future)10:36
decent-username> . <10:36
buZzno offense10:36
decent-usernameaye sir10:36
KatolaZdecent-username: devuan:devuan10:43
KatolaZdecent-username: root:toor10:43
KatolaZit's in the README.txt10:44
KatolaZno need to search anywhere10:44
buZzdjph: wanna see my new exciting monitor?12:26
buZzthe one on the right ;
buZzofficial site ;
buZzits stupid cheap, like 70% discounted from that price on the link12:27
buZzand just 'normal' usb-c altmode displayport12:27
buZznow just need to add a 'thunderbolt' card to pc so i can actually use it :P12:28
Wonkadoes a thunderbolt 3 card help there, or would you need to have a graphics card that can output via usb-c dp altmode?12:37
buZzWonka: check this card ;
buZzyou loop-back DP from the GPU into that12:37
buZzi've looked a bit, but didnt see any graphics card with usb-c12:38
buZzjust on laptops12:38
WonkabuZz: aaah, that's clever12:38
buZzuhuh, its just intel's reference design afaik12:39
buZzalthough the way cheaper 'intel oem' version of that card , doesnt have DP ports -_-12:39
premobossweird. i add my user to dialout group (sudo usermod -a -G dialout my_user). commnad 'groups my_user' report that my_user is member of dialout. but if being my_user i try to do 'minicom' i get message 'canot open /dev/ttyUSBO: Access denied'. Of course if i do being root all works good.17:07
premobossmmm error came from GUI, in CLI (ctrl-alt-f1) all goes ok with my_user. MAybe i must logoff/logon17:09
djphdid you logout/login17:10
ErRandiror call newgrp dialout17:11
premobossErRandir, done. thanks.17:12
premobossdjph, ErRandir gave the faster solution.17:13
rwppremoboss, Groups are assigned at time of login.  Which was why djph suggested logging out and back in again. newgrp is changes the primary group, which works, but has the side effect of changing the primary group.18:55
premobossrwp, thanks for clarification.19:00
rwpnewgrp is one of those commands that people often try to put in scripts too.19:02
rwpWhich does not work as people often think.  Because newgrp stacks a new shell and in a script means that execution appears to stop there.19:02
rwpThe original best practices for using newgrp were always to use exec to exec newgrp replacing the current shell with the new one.19:03
rwpJust the same as one would exec login to replace the current session with a new one.19:03
rwpBut again in scripts that pretty much stops the execution.19:03
Guest21There was a prolem with the installer's auto-partitioner. I have a root partition that's only 6GB. It fills too quickly20:54
Guest21There are also several issues with the upgrade to ASCII that also seem to be partially reported in Debian's bug report repo. I do not know how to rectify these things. They seem to be in issue with Tor primarily, all of them seeming permission errors. There was also an issue with X120:55
Guest21As usual there's no onbe here and my email is STILL banned from the ML20:56
rwp6G should be plenty for a root partition. What directory is filling up there?21:04
rwpGuest21, ^^ I suspect either /var/log or /var/cache/apt. If /var/cache/apt from collected up downloads then 'apt-get clean' will empty it.21:04
Guest21It seems that primarily it is /var/backups and alt-language documentation (Due to me internationalizing my system, apt downloads every translation).21:04
Guest21Using bleachbit removes the alt-language documentaiton21:05
Guest21I just manually deleted the /var/backups and gained 2GB21:05
Guest21I'm unsure if that was wise21:05
rwpMy /var/backups on a very active system with additional mysql backup dumps there is only 12M in size.21:05
rwpdu -sh /var/backups and tell us the amount there please. :-)21:05
Guest21Also [and this is due to my own error] my Encrypted Swap partition is glitchy21:06
Guest21I just deleted21:06
Guest21This keeps happening, apt fails and reports "No space left on device"21:06
rwpWhat does "df -h /" report?21:06
Guest21There are so many errors, I don't know if this is a broken install or not21:07
rwpNote that if a process is actively writing to a file, and that file is removed from the directory, that does not free up the disk space.21:07
Guest21Filesystem     Type  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on/dev/dm-1      ext4  6.3G  6.3G     0 100% /21:07
Guest21This may be due to my own error. After upgrading to ASCII, there was an error I was trying to rectify. I thought the problem was cryptoluks/LVM so I edited these files and was unable to fully restore them after the fact21:08
Guest21I know that my swap is invalid due to this, but I can boot and access things correctly. It fills up frequently though21:09
Guest21I don't know how to rectify this. I thought initially the "No Space Left" error was due to international translations being downloaded for all new files21:09
Guest21Er, programs21:09
rwpIs your swap enabled?  'free -h' will show this information.21:10
Guest21Do you have a solution, rwp21:10
Guest21              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   availableMem:            11G        771M         10G         28M        612M         10GSwap:            0B          0B          0B21:10
rwpI suggest finding what directory is filling up your disk.21:10
Guest21Is there a quick way to discover that, or do I have to hunt for that in mc21:10
rwpThat shows that swap is not enabled.  Which if you say it is having problems that is what you want.  Until you can fix your swap problems.  But disk space first.21:10
rwpdu -sx --exclude /proc --exclude /sys --exclude /dev /*21:11
Guest21It appears that /etc/alternatives is large21:11
rwpThat should give a listing of how much disk space is in each directory.21:11
rwpPlease don't paste that output back into the channel though.21:11
Guest21Now it's hung21:11
rwpPatience.  It is just still running.21:11
infobothmm... paste is or or
Guest21Well, /usr is the largest directory at 5.5GB21:12
rwpGood progress.  Now look there for the next level of fill.21:12
rwpdu -sx --exclude /proc --exclude /sys --exclude /dev /usr/*21:12
rwpdu -sx /usr/*21:13
rwpI guess I don't need to exclude those things that are not in /usr. :-)21:13
rwpThere is also a good tool called 'ncdu' which does this nicer.  But you can't install it until you have free space.21:13
golinux<rwp> 6G should be plenty for a root partition.21:13
rwpJust mentioning it for later as it is a nice disk space chase down where it is going tool.21:13
Guest21Well, /usr/share is at 2.1G with /usr/lib at 2.5GB21:13
rwpYes golinux most agreed here.  So trying to chase down where the space has gone.21:14
golinuxI always use 20GB root because I have some apps that use /tmp heavily21:14
golinuxrwp:  Now you have where OI was going with your quote21:14
rwpGuest21, Have you installed anything quite large that would have filled up the disk just normally?  Such as 0AD or other large package?21:15
rwpYou can refresh your memory by looking at "less /var/log/dpkg.log" and seeing what got installed recently.21:16
golinuxlibreoffice is a pig21:16
rwpLooking at my /usr on a desktop I see I have 5.4G consumed.  du -sh /usr21:16
rwpGuest21, If you have then I suggest backing that out.21:17
Guest22I am back. Damn connection errors21:18
rwpSince apt is not happy being out of disk space might have to manually select a leafe package and use "dpkg --purge packagename" to remove the package, lowest dependency first, in order to get enough disk space for apt to be working again.21:18
rwpWhat did you miss Guest21?  Need any repeats?21:18
golinuxMy / is using 16.6gb of 2021:19
Guest22Yes, I d/c'd when I had posted that it is /usr/share and /usr/lib to blame21:19
rwpOkay.  My /usr on a desktop is 5.4G so maybe you installed something big recently?  0AD or other large package?21:19
rwpYou can refresh your memory by looking at "less /var/log/dpkg.log" and seeing what got installed recently.21:19
rwpI think you will need to select some extra stuff recently installed and remove it.21:20
rwpProbably need to use dpkg if apt does not have enough disk space to work properly.21:20
Guest22This log only contains today since bleachbit delets the log21:20
Guest22I have installed the Linux-Libre kernel21:20
Guest22That's about it21:20
rwpAh...  I think using bleachbit may have removed the trail of evidence of how we got here.21:21
Guest22Well, what do you recommend now21:21
rwpLet me suggest digging a little more then. du -sx /usr/share/* | sort -n21:21
rwpWhat is the largest directories that appear at the bottom?  Hoping it will indicate some particular package that can be removed.21:22
rwpSame question for du -sx /usr/lib/* | sort -n21:22
Guest22Largest three directories are automake-1.15, gtksourceview-2.0 and help21:22
rwpMy initial goal would be to get enough disk space back for you that apt will work okay so that then further progress may be made.21:23
Guest22In /usr/lib21:23
Guest22gbrainy, libgettextlib..., and openssh21:23
rwpHmm..  My /usr/share/automake-1.15 directory is 1000 blocks and far from my largest consumer there.21:24
Guest22All these directories are Kb small21:24
Guest221020K for the help directory21:24
Guest22880K for Openssh21:24
rwpCurious.  I was hoping for and expecting to see something like libreoffice wihch is really large and could be removed to free up a ton of space.21:25
Guest22I use LibreOffice21:25
rwpNone of what I am suggesting is a permanent change of lifestyle.  Just something to get your system to a free enough disk space state that further fixes can be applied.21:26
Guest22I'll try to remove libreoffice21:26
Guest22Oh great21:26
Guest22I can't21:26
rwpIf libreoffice was installed then it should have been one of the largest directories in /usr/lib/libreoffice21:26
Guest22Apt is hung due to the two upgrade packages I can't install.21:26
Guest22It is installed though21:27
Guest22I just opneend it to make sure21:27
rwpExpected when apt is not happy.  I think you will need to use dpkg to remove it.21:27
Guest22How do I remove it with dpkg? I've only installed and reconfigured using dpkg21:27
rwpgolinux, Any simple suggestions?  I can only give a rather complex pipeline of commands to get libreoffice removed.21:29
rwpIf golinux does not have a better idea then I suggest: dpkg --dry-run --purge $(dpkg -l | awk '/libreoffice/{print$2}')21:30
Guest22Oh wait21:30
rwpRemove the --dry-run if you think the output is doing what it should be doing.21:30
Guest22rwp, the command you gave me did not sort them by size21:30
Guest22du -sx /usr/share/* | sort -n21:30
Guest22This is mismatched21:30
Guest22Why is this, I don't understand. sort -n is the right command, yes?21:31
rwpThat command works well for me.  I did try it before I suggested it.21:31
rwpBut perhaps LC_ALL=C needs to (temporarily) be set to force a standard sorting locale?21:31
rwpAnd the -n is the old way too.  Should get with the new way and use -k1,1n instead.  Try this:21:32
Guest22It's sorted by number, but not by value21:32
rwpdu -sx /usr/share/* | env LC_ALL=C sort -k1,1n21:32
Guest22it goes 116K, 117M, 121M, 128K21:32
rwpWait... huh?  number is value?  Let me show you want I am seeing21:32
rwpDid you add -h to the du option list?21:33
Guest22Same thing21:33
Guest22du -sx /usr/share/* | sort -n21:33
rwpenv -i du -sx /usr/share/* | env LC_ALL=C sort -k1,1n21:33
Guest22There we go21:34
rwpPlease try running the du with 'env -i' to initialize to an empty environment.  Thinking there is an environment variable setting du human readable size.21:34
Guest22Four giant directories21:34
rwpOr perhaps you have an alias for du set.  Either way using 'env cmd' is an idiom to avoid aliases and -i initiallizes to strip the environment.  Useful for cases like this.21:35
Guest22I am going to upload to a tempsender21:35
rwpTo look for an alias: alias du21:35
Guest22This is /usr/lib
rwpThe /usr/share/AAVMF is associated with qemu-efi21:37
rwpYou might look down into /usr/share/games to see what is the big pigs there.21:37
rwpThe libreoffice is still the easiest low hanging fruit to pick to free up significant disk space.21:37
rwpdpkg --dry-run --purge $(dpkg -l | awk '/libreoffice/{print$2}')21:37
rwpIf the output of that dry-run looks okay then remove the --dry-run option and it should run for real and remove libreoffice freeing up that disk space.21:38
rwpThat should get apt to the point that you can run this to get apt into a happy state: apt-get install -f21:38
Guest22Your command reports several dependency errors21:38
rwpCan you pastebin them?21:39
Guest22Supertuxkart and supertux221:39
Guest22Are the big ones in the games directory21:39
rwpAh yes lots of image data there.  Then those might be good ones to try to remove first.21:39
Guest22So dpkg --purge supertuxkart21:40
rwp(I recently cloned and compiled supertuxkart and it was quite large.)21:40
rwpYes.  Did that work?21:40
Guest22Shuld I remove supertux too?21:40
rwpDisk space available now?  df -h /21:41
Guest22Still reports 100% used21:41
Guest22[13:40 root@lappy se7en] > df -h /Filesystem     Type  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on/dev/dm-1      ext4  6.3G  6.3G     0 100% /21:41
rwpdpkg -l | grep tux21:41
rwpAny other associated packages that might need to be removed?21:41
rwpsupertuxkart-data for example?21:42
Guest22I did21:42
Guest22I removed that21:42
Guest22Wait, one left21:43
Guest22 /dev/dm-1      ext4  6.3G  5.6G  445M  93% /21:43
rwpIt is a slim lead but perhaps enough!21:43
Guest22So run apt -f instlal now?21:44
rwpIf you look again is it filling up as we speak?  (Sometimes programs are still running and trying to write and then fill up the disk again.)21:44
Guest22Yes, it worked21:44
Guest22I ran `apt -f install` and gives the same reading21:44
Guest22No change21:44
rwpI don't know "apt" very well but "apt-get install -f" is the fix command there.  But there is an equiv with "apt" and the others (aptitude) too.21:44
Guest22Well, it's the same here21:45
rwpThe "install -f" is the fix what is listed broken command.21:45
Guest22It installed the two packages21:45
rwpIf it installed them then something is pulling them in again.21:45
Guest22I am going to attempt to run `apt full-upgrade`21:45
rwpWon't be any worse than now.  So might as well.21:46
rwpJust note that being persistent and working carefully through it will solve the problem.21:46
Guest22There is a kernel upgrade in query21:46
Guest22Well, after this complets what do you suggest I do now21:47
rwpIf it were me I would still remove libreoffice too to make more space.21:48
rwpTell me about the rest of your environment.  You said 6G for root.  Is this LVM?  Or hard partitions?  Is there free disk space elsewhere?21:49
Guest22It is an encrypted LVM with seprate /, /tmp, /home, and /var21:49
Guest22Using the guided partitioner on Devuan Jessie Final21:49
rwpSo I assume all free space was allocated to /home?  Nothing left?  'vgs'21:50
rwpIf free space existed then you could lvextend your root partition to make it bigger.21:51
Guest22  VG       #PV #LV #SN Attr   VSize   VFree  lappy-vg   1   5   0 wz--n- 465.02g    021:51
rwpRight.  No free space.  If not then there is always the possibility to make free space but...21:51
rwp*I* would be inclined to take a big directory like /usr/share and copy it into /home/share and then remove and symlink there.21:52
rwpNot sure that would be generally recommended.  But it is okay to relocate /usr dirs to /home so that it frees up space.21:52
Guest22I'd rather fix it right21:52
rwpHow much used space in /home?21:52
Guest22 /dev/mapper/lappy--vg-home ext4  425G   94G  311G  24% /home21:53
rwpLots of available space there.  Good.21:53
rwpAnother suggestion I might make would be to backup /home onto another safe location.  I see 94G listed there.  Significant.  Then completely remove it and free it up into the volume group.  Then extend the root partition.  Then put /home back into the smaller size of it.21:54
Guest22That takes a bit of effort21:54
rwpWell... yes...  I see no completely trivial solutions here.21:55
rwpDoing the copy of /usr/share to /home/share and symlinking it would be relatively simple and painless.  But it would be a special hack just for you.  It would work well long term.  But you couldn't forget you had done it.21:55
Guest22I know21:56
Guest22I may resort to that21:56
Guest22There are other errors too though21:56
Guest22For example, tor21:56
Guest22I am unable to binf tor ro despite nothing using this port21:56
rwpI don't think there is any bad boot time interaction that requires /usr/share mounted.  You know the entire boot time bootstrap order of needing /usr mounted and all of that.21:56
Guest22And running things through torify often cause them to no longer work21:56
djphboot only "needs" /, /bin, and possibly /sbin21:57
rwpI don't think running out of disk space directly is the cause of the bind to that port error.  That is probably an associated cascade failure though.21:57
Guest22I just don't want an ugly hack like that symlink idea21:57
rwpI understand.21:58
rwpJust trying to present possible solutions given the problem you have presented.21:58
Guest22golinux amI unbanned from the ML yet21:58
rwpIn the meantime I would try to make a little more disk space by seeing what other peripheral non-critical packages I could remove.21:59
rwpAnd you said apt tried to reinstall the tuxkart ones after you had removed them.  Thinking that apt may have them marked for install in some way.  Unfamiliar with apt because I always use apt-get.21:59
Guest22I did not say that22:00
golinuxGuest22: Not yet.22:00
Guest22Alos, the tor error seems to be on debian-side too22:00
rwp13:45 < Guest22> It installed the two packages22:00
Guest22It's in their ML but no solution proposed22:00
Guest22I meant it installed the two packages awaiting in alt -f22:00
Guest22apt -f22:00
Guest22Which were perl packages22:01
rwpOkay.  Does that mean apt is now in a happy state for you and you have a little bit of disk space?22:01
* rwp got an urgent disk space alert for a system and needs to go check it...22:01
Guest22At the present, yes22:02
golinuxGuest22: Sorry I got distracted with other stuff.  If you post to DNG, I will release your technical questions.22:24
Guest22I can not at the moment22:24
Guest22I will in due time22:24
golinuxarmin: Still a happy Devuan user!23:16
armingolinux: sure23:20
armingolinux: made some music at night with the devuan laptop in bed23:20
armingolinux: just for fun23:20
armingolinux: heh23:20
armingolinux: renoise really works perfectly to enable vintage computers to be music making machines23:35
buZzsunvox is also cool23:35
arminbuZz: is your nickname related to the good old music tracker software?23:35
arminoh yes sunvox looks cool, checking out23:36
buZzit is not, just a abbreviation of my irl name :)23:37
buZzthe tracker software i used most was impulse tracker back in the day23:37
arminbuZz: interesting23:44
arminbuZz: anyways, just checked out sunvox, was able to create a very simple melody within minutes23:44
arminbuZz: not sure how the interface works, yet, as i'm a renoise user23:44
buZzhehe yeah its pretty neat23:44
buZzrealize its a full modular synth though :)23:45
buZzwell, sorta23:45
arminbuZz: interesting23:45
se7enAnother weird error (I am Guest21) my CD drive randomly ejects23:56
se7enNow when in function though23:57

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