freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-01-10

ejrhow can i stop a service like networking from autostarting at boot in devuan? all explanations i find for this are related to systemd...08:35
ejrjust came across sysv-rc-conf,i guess this will solve it08:41
jyriejr: update-rc.d -f networking08:49
rwpejr, If you are using /etc/network/interfaces then they autostart if marked "auto" or "allow-hotplug" and do not if not marked or if marked "manual".08:49
ejrok, but is there any disadvantage to using sysv-rc-conf to edit the runlevel priority? if i understand it correctly, disabling the runlevel also prevents the service from autostarting, right?08:50
rwpAlternatively one can remove the 'S' start symlinks from /etc/rcS.d/S??networking and that is okay too.08:50
rwpejr, Curious... Why do you want to disable networking from starting at boot time?08:53
ejrit already has a K14 instead of S?? in my rcS.d now, probably that's because i edited it in sysv-rc-conf before?08:53
ejrrwp: because i don't want to be automatically connected to the home network + internet (for productivity reasons) everytime i get on my computer08:54
rwpIf you edited it off with sys-rc-conf then it would have replaced the 'S' symlink with a 'K' symlinks.08:54
rwpIf all of the symlinks were removed then the package would think it was freshly installed and would configure it upon the next upgrade.08:55
rwpTo preserve local admin modifications then at least one symlink must remain behind.08:55
rwpTherefore sys-rc-conf converts 'S' to 'K' so that the package knows it has been locally configured and will preserve it.08:56
ejrah ok, then i guess i will just do update-rc.d -f networking as jyri suggested. i actually remember once having used that command for some other autostart issue but forgot what commandit was...08:56
rwpAs a human it is okay to modify those too.  But always leave at least one behind so that it will know it is locally modified.08:56
rwpThe update-rc.d utility is okay to use but it is designed for package postinstall scripts.  That is why the syntax is rather tedious for the command line.08:57
rwpAs a human editing it there is no reason not to use whatever way of managing those symlinks that you wish.08:57
ejralright, thanks08:58
rwpejr, Thanks for the reasoning.  Many laptops also have an rfkill switch.  Mine is on the left side and I sometimes hit it by accident.08:58
rwpIt is also possible and reasonable just to flip that switch and go into "airplane" mode.  Then switch it back on again when one wants to be connected.08:59
rwpSome laptops have it as a soft function with Fn+Fsome function key combination.08:59
rwpJust an idea for you. :-)08:59
ejrmine doesn't have that, though i might rebind some of the unused thinkpad buttons for this. i think it has this functionality in windows once read, but not by standard in linux.09:00
rwpThere is an 'rfkill' command and package of the same name that allows doing it in software too.09:00
ejrah, thanks for the advice ;) and even a daemon apparently (urfkill)09:01
rwpI figure it is easier to do the "airplane mode" switch in either hardware or software than swapping /etc/rcS.d/S??networking to K and and such all of the time.09:01
rwpdaemon?  Looking...09:02
ejrwill certainly help me become less distracted by mail, rss feeds and surfing to use that kind of service, especially combined with more tmux and less GUI program usage ;)09:02
rwptmux (and screen too) rocks!  FTW! :-)09:03
chr[]System Down: A systemd-journald exploit12:52
sixwheeledbeast^Love the SOAD lyrics13:05
BlakBatHi, even with net.ifnames=1, a dpkg-reconfigure eudev and a reboot, I'm still having old names. Is there anything else I forgot or missed?13:35
KatolaZBlakBat: are you sure you don't have any kernel option in grub that re-enables fancy names?13:46
BlakBatKatolaZ: I've got " Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=UUID=8f19106a-e09c-4380-9429-8b361cc5cf59 ro console=ttyS0 net.ifnames=1 " (cmd: dmesg | grep ifn)13:56
BlakBatAlso not using wicd, since there's no UI interface on this machine13:57
KatolaZBlakBat: which version of eudev is installed?13:57
BlakBateudev is 3.2.2-13 and I have a udev 1:3.2.2+devuan2.11 transitional package13:58
KatolaZBlakBat: I guess you shouldn't need any net.ifnames option, IIRC13:59
KatolaZthe default is to have the legacy names13:59
BlakBatI understand that the default is legacy names, and that's what eudev warns about. But eudev also says that if you want new names (my case) it's as simple as just adding the net.ifnames=1 to kernel.14:02
BlakBatMy issue is that I want the new names14:02
djphso then update sysctl?14:09
djphor udev or whatever (I hate the new names, so...)14:10
work5040hello from brazil , i'm running devuan ascii on my raspberry pi, but i'm worried that the kernel is outdated because I installed on august and the kernel was never updated, thanks14:25
djphwork5040: if there are security updates, you'll get them ... but "new kernel" as in 4.15 to 4.19 has to be selected explicitly14:32
work5040thanks, so I will get kernel update via apt update ?14:38
djphapt-get install linux-image-whatever. Use apt-cache to list out what's available.14:43
premobosshi guys. i am trying to set ul a kiosk based on toucscreen wul linux ARM board embedded. the system start ul cromium at start and system goes directly onto a local webpaged managed by lighttpd. iwist to improuve the start time, i guess if there are some tricks to make chomium to start faster (i am read to recompile if needed). i already did all the trikc in config and flags page of crhomium, but now i need to make it faster as possible. some suggestions?15:10
KatolaZpremoboss: I have never seen "fast" and "chromium" in the same sentence15:47
KatolaZ(not even "fast" and "firefox", to be fair)15:48
MinceRi can easily demonstrate that for you15:48
premobossKatolaZ, me too, so i came hereto hask to who i suppose know about more than me.15:48
MinceR"Chromium and Firefox are the opposite of fast, but Firefox tries to force Pulseaudio on users."15:48
KatolaZpremoboss: the answer was: "look for another browser"15:49
premobossi nnet oty start up faaster that it cans, so i guess i i recompile and"eliminate"£ sone unecessary part, mabe i get succes.15:49
KatolaZcompile chromium?15:49
KatolaZgood luck15:49
premobossunfortunately, crompum has integrated virtual keiboard that is needed. i user xombrero, is very fast buty no virtual keyboard available.15:50
r3boottss, not even using curl to browse .. how can you even get your system to run fast! ;P15:50
KatolaZpremoboss: why do you need an integrated virtual keyboard?15:51
KatolaZyou can use any external virtual keyboard15:51
r3bootpremoboss: but just to get an idea what you're talking about; What are your current startup times, and what would you like to achieve15:51
r3bootplus, apart from kiosk mode, what features do you need?15:51
premobosssorry for uppercase.15:51
premobossnope mone han kiosk15:52
KatolaZpremoboss: there are *external* apps which provide a virtual keyboard15:52
KatolaZkiosks were a thing before chromium come to existence...15:52
premobossi endd to set up a kisk, quite done,. but total gboot time si not faster enough, so i gues some trik to do it (and now the big stone to crunk is cromium).15:53
r3bootpremoboss: try thew surf browser together with the -K flag15:53
r3bootthat's still webkit based, but it has completely stripped the ui down to the bare necessities15:53
premobossi mist go far from keyboad fro a while, see you later. r3boot ok, i will tru syrf (alrady tested but i will do again)15:54
r3bootmja, best thing I can come up with iig. All ui-based browsers will be a beast, no matter how much effort you put into it15:54
r3bootAlternatively, convert your backend application into an API, and write some SPA for it that runs on your raspberry15:55
James1138I used Chromium for a little while and found the speed tweaks for Chrome INDEED WORK on Chromium.
James1138I went back to FireFox ESR because I found it has things like FTP addons that Chrome/Chromium does not.16:11
r3boothandy, prefetching. That'll report all your https-protected urls to google ;)16:12
KatolaZJames1138: I guess premoboss was talking about start-up speed-up16:15
KatolaZnot much about browsing speed16:16
James1138R3boot... I did not know that prefetching does that!16:16
r3bootwhat did you think it does?16:16
James1138KatolaZ: I'd suggest you try disabling the extensions one by one (under Chrome://extensions) to see which one is causing the problem.16:18
KatolaZJames1138: I have never user Chromium16:19
KatolaZthe problem is not mine :)16:19
KatolaZit's premoboss'16:19
James1138Well r3boot - I better turn that off on Firefox. That is one speed tweak I do not need that badly.16:19
premobossIm back.16:22
premobossJames1138: I guess premoboss was talking about start-up speed-up <--- Yes16:22
nemoI guess you guys saw
nemoI just came here to enjoy smug reactions ☺16:23
James1138General question about Devuan. In the beginning... why XFCE as default desktop? Not to cause any problems and I do not plan to change desktops but just wondering. If the idea was something lightweight - why not LXDE at that time? If the idea was support - it looked like GNOME2 (now Mint) appears to have more support/features/apps.16:29
MinceRcan the lxde panel handle multihead setups properly yet?16:31
KatolaZJames1138: you actually have many DEs available in Devuan16:31
MinceRlast time i checked it just spanned the bottom of the whole desktop no matter what16:31
KatolaZall available at install time16:31
James1138Ahhh... my bad.16:31
KatolaZalso, any question like "why this and not that" can always be reversed16:32
KatolaZand asked like "why that and not this"?16:32
nemoJames1138: I'm starting to lean towards XFCE again these days16:33
nemoJames1138: I've been on MATE (and previously Gnome2) for a long time, but XFCE has become more consistent in its config/widgets/settings while MATE seems to be losing momentum16:34
nemoJames1138: for example, all of my current MATE laptops have broken power reporting16:34
MinceRxfce has degraded as well16:35
nemothey don't know when they are on battery, they can't suspend properly16:35
MinceRi've struggled with the panel crashing when i told it to remove a panel16:35
nemoXFCE does seem to do the power reporting correctly16:35
James1138Nemo... over then 10 years (it been THAT long... whew), I used LXDE, MATE, GNOME3, Mint and XFCE. I found for my taste XFCE 4.12 gave me the most while asking the least of my system.16:35
MinceRand with it keeping its settings in some settings daemon which had to be hunted down to make the config file changes take effect16:35
nemoMinceR: arch has some patches for mate power management that do not seem to have made it into debian/ubuntu or upstream mate unfortunately16:35
MinceRarch is a no-go for me16:36
nemoJames1138: heh. I have you pretty easily beat on the length of time, and I've used a lot - it was the little things in gnome2/mate I appreciated16:36
nemoJames1138: and my mom as well.  things like automounting ISOs w/ the vfs, that a bunch of apps plugged into as well, like 7th string16:36
nemoJames1138: or the fact that you could change system time from the date/time widget with automatic prompting of privs - that one in particular drove my mom bonkers16:37
r3bootA desktop environment doesnt directly do anything with power management. It will call lower-level layers (acpi, udev) to actually perform power functions. So if things dont work, you'll need to troubleshoot the lower-level layers16:37
James1138Sorry Nemo... it took me awhile to break away from Windows cult.16:37
nemoJames1138: but this recent breakage in power management is really annoying. I think that'll push me over the edge16:37
nemor3boot: yeah. so what happened was upower changed, and mate power management did not16:37
r3bootAh, that sucks. No way to rollback upower?16:37
nemor3boot: that's what the arch patches seem to fix, and what does not seem to be in upstream or debian16:37
nemor3boot: dunno. I try not to migromanage my distros16:37
nemounless they make doing that easy, like gentoo16:38
r3boot.. or arch, for that matter16:38
nemor3boot: anyway stable debian + MATE has broken power management on everything. and that includes backports16:38
r3bootahja. I've dropped debian (and ubuntu) as desktop distro's years ago already16:38
nemoby "everything", I mean my Lenovo laptop, my Dell laptop and.. my Pinebook16:38
James1138Me too Nemo.16:40
nemoJames1138: I think what helped me a long was just age. by time windows arrived I was already pretty comfortable in dos, took pride in knowing allll the dos 6.22 commands - then linux was like O_o now THAT's a command prompt16:41
nemoJames1138: that said, did spend a few years in windows world primarily 'cause linux was still pretty tough to use the first few years16:41
r3bootGhe .. did you try any of the other unices during that timeframe?16:41
James1138Ah... I miss DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.21 every once in awhile.16:41
nemor3boot: some sunos at work, but... I was too poor to own it myself16:42
r3bootin my recolleciton, especially the older linuxes were total pieces of crap compared to (eg) Free and OpenBSD (and not even comparing commercial unices)16:42
r3bootAhja, SunOS <316:42
nemor3boot: free/openbsd hardware support was even more awful than linux back then16:42
premobossr3boot> premoboss: try thew surf browser together with the -K flag <-- r3boot i did, surf start (not in fullscreen mode) but i need that a virtual keyboad pup ul when i touch on a text area (i.e. serach bar of
nemonowdays it isn't too bad16:42
r3bootdepended on the hardware nemo16:42
r3bootI never had any issues with *bsd on (eg) thinkpads16:42
nemor3boot: random commodity x86 that I picked by affordability when building my tower 😝16:42
nemor3boot: I couldn't afford laptops back then16:43
KatolaZpremoboss: xvkbd or florence16:43
nemor3boot: I did finally acquire a cheapo laptop around 2002 with a whole 96MiB of RAM ☺  I put gentoo on it16:43
r3bootpremoboss: what KatolaZ says16:43
James1138I admit to being a puny rookie to Linux but this grandpa owned over time about every computer that came out. Atari, TI99/4a, C64 and C128, Radio Shack Color Computer 2 and 3 as well as Tandy's versions of Windows computers (Deskmate?). Then Compaq... etc.16:44
nemoaaaanyway. WRT digression, I haven't tried XFCE in many years, but this mate power management has shaken my faith in the fork, I think I'm gonna switch back to it for a while and see if I can get used to it again16:44
nemoJames1138: trash-80?16:44
KatolaZnemo: so you are doubting Devuan just because a power management widget does not work?16:45
James1138Yes... <bowed head in shame>16:45
nemoKatolaZ: not doubting devuan. no. doubting mate 😝16:45
nemoKatolaZ: I was in fact, speaking in favour of devuan's choice of default desktop 😝16:45
KatolaZoh sorry16:45
nemothat is XFCE16:45
KatolaZtoo many interleaving discussions16:45
nemoand mate power management is indeed a relatively minor feature but is super annoying to have to remember to suspend the laptop manually to avoid it melting my backpack16:46
nemonot to mention manually checking battery level when not plugged in16:46
nemoand manually reducing screen brightness16:46
r3bootpersonally, I'd say that powermanagement is a critical feature for desktop distro's16:46
premobossKatolaZ and r3boot, i use no window manager. From rc.local i start Xorg and chromium directly. i already tryed florence, it can start if i run by hand (log in by ssh and run DISPLAY:=0 florence &) but it does not interact with input area of webbrowser. for sure i am doing some wrong...16:47
r3boottsja, if you dont have anything which can manage your windows, it wont happen indeed.16:48
r3bootThere are some tools (forgot the name) that'll allow you to modify some parts of Xlib, but it's likely easier/faster to just run a window manager16:48
nemopremoboss:  how about this then. it might fit your level of minimalism while still allowing some basic rearranging16:49
premobosshi nemo. never see that link, tghnaks, i go to read.16:49
KatolaZpremoboss: florence should pop up any time you try to insert text16:55
KatolaZyou just need to launch it at startup16:55
KatolaZ(i.e., from .xsessionrc)16:55
premobossKatolaZ, it does not. i will insert it into /etc/ec.local just after Xorg and surf, then i report you16:56
KatolaZforget rc.local16:56
KatolaZput it in the .xsessionrc of the user who runs the kiosk16:57
premobossKatolaZ, why?16:57
KatolaZthat stuff should not go in rc.local16:57
KatolaZrc.local is run as root16:57
r3bootpremoboss: thats the configuration file Xorg uses to startup applications. Putting them in rc.local is possible, but it's a (dirty) hack16:57
nemoJames1138: what I appreciate about dos btw, is that it was a useful playground for a young kid.  Had a limited number of utilities I could easily grasp, and has quickbasic! with sample games!16:57
KatolaZyou don't want a kiosk app to run as root....16:57
r3boot(at a high level; xsessionrc does more then just start apps)16:57
nemoJames1138: Was just enough nudging to write some stuff of my own based on their examples16:58
James1138Yep Nemo16:58
nemoJames1138:  my first game as an angsty tween. still runs in dosbox w/ qbi ☺16:58
premobossguys, into /home/user/ i have not .xsessionrc, i have only .Xautority.16:59
nemopremoboss: so make one16:59
nemopremoboss: man xession16:59
nemoman xsession16:59
premobosscan i whote it by myself? never play bevore with that file.16:59
KatolaZpremoboss: just put the commands you would like to be run at startup17:00
KatolaZdo not forget to put them in background17:00
nemoas a test one if you wish17:00
nemoor tinywm ☺17:00
premobossi will test with lxterminal first.17:00
nemopremoboss: the man page explains mroe17:01
KatolaZnemo: you don't need any hashbang17:01
KatolaZnemo: ~/.xsessionrc is sourced by another shell script called by Xsession on startup17:03
KatolaZso it's already in a shell env17:03
KatolaZa shebang would just be interpreted as a comment17:03
nemoKatolaZ: hm. 'k... dunno. always added it. is this standard for Xsession?  maybe it was so I could fire up my env from a bare X session if need be, but, dunno, the examples I followed over all those decades had it17:04
KatolaZnemo: man Xsession ;)17:05
KatolaZunder "SUPPLIED SCRIPTS"17:06
r3bootnemo: yes, this is standard for Xsession, and has been like that ever since X11R6 :P17:06
r3boot(and likely X11R5 as well, but I cant be bothered to fire up a vintage unix box to validate :P)17:07
nemor3boot: no idea why examples did that then, must be for cases of broken env failing to read it17:07
KatolaZI remember it was like that in XFree86, but I might be wrong17:07
nemor3boot: like, for example the chroot on my android phone about 50% of time17:07
nemor3boot: I think I'll leave it in for that reason, is harmless17:07
r3bootMja, it doesnt hurt to leave it in17:07
earthnativenemo: I remember seeing systems in the 90s that had .xinit (.Xinit? .Xinitrc?) be a symlink to .Xsession  ...and Xinit needs the hashbang17:10
errandir1yeah I remember .xinitrc17:11
r3bootyep, that file still works17:12
r3bootactually, my setup uses that (arch, slim, i3, .xinitrc)17:12
KatolaZand again, you don't need a shebang in .xinitrc either17:15
KatolaZsince it is considered a shell script17:15
KatolaZ(it's launched as an argument to /bin/sh anyway, IIRC)17:15
r3bootI have found one usecase for adding a shebang to .xinitrc/.xsessionrc; It's a cornercase for sure, and should not be applied by default, but here goes; If you have Xorg running, w/o any apps, you could run export DISPLAY=:0 /home/user/.xsessionrc (instead of export DISPLAY=:0 sh /home/user/.xsessionrc)17:16
gnarfacei thought it needs to be there for startx to pay attention to it too...17:17
KatolaZr3boot: I don't think it works, unless you don't want a session at all17:19
KatolaZI mean, you still need an Xsession to be run17:19
r3bootyuh, like I said, this is for a cornercase17:19
r3bootsomething along the lines of, system is completely borked, Xorg still starts tho, but the DM doesnt anymore or so17:20
r3bootactually, forget about it :)17:20
r3boot(last time I needed to do low-level X recovery/troubleshooting, the thing was still named X11R6)17:20
r3bootand that was a *royal* bitch17:21
earthnativeand, tangent... memories of XDM17:24
earthnativeand XDMCP!17:24
earthnativeI spent far too much time working out a theming engine for XDM17:25
r3bootOh man .. I remember creating a custom wallpaper for my SGI Indy ... in XPM format17:26
r3bootthe horrorrs17:26
r3boot(it needed a special format for xpm, which my lnx box didnt have ofc)17:26
premobossKatolaZ, i start Xorg from /etc/rc.local. then i create .xsessionrc (in /home/user) an populate with 'surf -K &' and 'florence &' but now i dont know hot to tell to the sistem to activate that /home/user/.xsessionrc.17:33
premobossi hanve no xdm/lighdm or other login screen.17:33
KatolaZpremoboss: if X is put in rc.local, it is run as root...17:40
KatolaZpremoboss: how are you starting X?17:41
KatolaZ(xinit? startx?)17:41
premobossKatolaZ, isnt X always runned as root privileged?17:41
premobossi start X placing /usr/bin/Xorg & into /etc/rc.local17:42
KatolaZthen premoboss launch X with xinit (in rc.local)17:43
KatolaZand then put the programs you want .xinitrc17:43
premobossgonna isntall xinit17:44
premobossjyst olace "xinit &" into /etc/rc.local?17:45
KatolaZyou would need to define XINITRC17:45
premobossjust place "xinit &" into /etc/rc.local?17:45
KatolaZand let it point to the .xinitrc file you want to use17:45
premobossok, how to do that defineition?17:45
KatolaZyou can do that in rc.local17:45
premobosswhere .xinitrc is located? (or, where it should be located?)17:47
premobossi searched with find / -iname .xintrc but not found17:48
KatolaZpremoboss: you need to put it somewhere17:48
KatolaZno r3boot17:48
r3bootbut you need to create it if it does not exist17:48
KatolaZit's started from rc.local17:48
KatolaZand I guess it won't have a HOME set at that point17:48
KatolaZsince it's launched by rc17:49
KatolaZpremoboss: just17:49
KatolaZxinit /PATH/TO/YOUR/xinitrc17:49
premobossok KatolaZ i do now.17:49
KatolaZxinit /PATH/TO/YOUR/xinitrc  -- /usr/bin/X17:49
KatolaZjust put a "sleep 2" at the beginning of your xinitrc17:50
KatolaZto be sure that the X server is up before you start running clients17:50
KatolaZdefined XINITRC17:50
KatolaZXINITRC=/path/to/your/xinitrc xinit -- /usr/bin/X17:51
gnarfacepremoboss: it is no longer the default for Xorg to run as root or through a suid root wrapper17:51
KatolaZit will start the X server first17:51
gnarfacepremoboss: that's important to know because it has changed some key behaviors17:51
KatolaZthen execute the xinitrc stuff17:52
premobossKatolaZ, i attached a usb keyboard an fog on the system as unprivileged user. then type "xinit /home/user/.xinitrc -- /usr/bin/X", the file .xinitrc is populated with "sleep 2 \n surf &". but i get error "xinit: unable to connect to X server: bad file descriptor"18:00
treeviewVery interesting...who'd thought? "Linux systemd Affected by Memory Corruption Vulnerabilities, No Patches Yet"
sixwheeledbeast^Been listening to SOAD all day...19:07
gnarfacei'm really just upset about the fact that they'll get away with saying "oops" like they didn't do it on purpose19:19
gnarfacei've been punished enough times for stuff i had nothing to do with that i really resent it when people get away with simultaneously playing the "we're the best there is, nobody can do better" card and the "oops we're still not smart enough for basic competence" card at once without anyone asking the right questions or following the money19:21
watchcatjust switched to devuan ascii from debian stretch a couple of days ago. i'm blown away by how good it is. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna stick with devuan from here on out. you guys did an amazing job. thank you.19:27
gnarfacei, personally didn't do any of it, but welcome aboard anyway watchcat19:28
gnarfacethis distro exists primarily by and for those competent enough to have noticed a conspicuous regression in the reliability of debian stable starting with jessie19:29
gnarface(and before my comments start a firestorm combined with that security vulnerability report, there is a #debianfork channel for off-topic ranting)19:31
watchcati only started debian on wheezy, but even i noticed a sea change. slackware before that. gotta love volkerding. :) but thanks for the welcome and i'll try to help out on the rare occasions someone knows even less than me.19:35
Guest98511Hello, is there anyone that can help with with a Devuan 2.0 installation?21:28
gnarfacewhat happened?21:29
Guest98511I have just installed Devuan 2.0 on my dedicated server and I have adjusted the sources list to the mentioned list on their website, however I am not able to do apt-get update21:29
gnarfacewhat hostname?21:30
Guest98511It just has the default hostname of my hosting provider. It is customer.worldstream.nl21:30
gnarfacethere's old ones and new ones21:30
gnarfaceyea, don't use that21:30
gnarfaceuse now21:30
KatolaZGuest98511: do you have internet connection?21:31
Guest98511The internet connection is there. Resolving is the issue it seems21:31
gnarfacedo you want me to /msg you what it resolves to here?21:32
gnarfacewould it help?21:33
Guest98511I think I will be able to resolve the issue with resolving. Thanks for your time and help!21:34
gnarface... hmmm21:35
gnarfacehe quit too quick21:36
sixwheeledbeast^Bounce ... pogo!23:00
MinceRpogo stick23:00
sixwheeledbeast^Just one pogo stick23:01
MinceRone was enough for Commander Keen23:04

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