freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-01-12

poeinklumgolinux: Ok, but - assuming this hasn't been reported, where do I report it?00:00
golinuxMaxFun: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian00:00
golinuxSame goes for Devuan.00:01
golinuxpoeinklum: If the package in Devuan is merged from Debian, report it in Debian.  If we forked it report it to Devuan00:02
poeinklumgolinux: Ok... we'll se what happens.00:02
furrymcgeeThere is still likely to be something of chasm between the two distributions, but any rapprochement should be welcome news to most https://lwn.net/Articles/770093/00:09
golinuxpoeinklum: Happy hunting!00:14
saptechhello all01:02
saptechI just noticed when I type 'ls -la' I see different group names01:03
saptechhttps://bpaste.net/show/a7763b5f8cdc01:03
saptechshouldn't the groups be same name as user, saptech saptech, instead of saptech adm?01:04
saptechHow can I change it?01:04
redrickIsn't group 'adm' something to do with system monitoring tasks?  I vaguely so recall.01:06
redrickLike, many logs in /var/log are owned by group adm and are 0640 permissions, so anything that needs to read them should be running as group adm.01:08
redrickhttps://wiki.gacq.com/index.php/Debian_default_system_groups_description01:08
redrick'adm: Group adm is used for system monitoring tasks. Members of this group can read many log files in /var/log, and can use xconsole. Historically, /var/log was /usr/adm (and later /var/adm), thus the name of the group.'01:08
redrickDoesn't exactly answer your question, but perhaps points you in the right direction, e.g., the reason these subtrees areon't owned by your group (saptech) is that system monitoring tools are creating and writing them, not you.01:10
rwpsaptech, Something is wrong with your user and/or group setup.  Those should not be group adm in your home directory.01:10
rwpYes.  The default is UPG (user-private-groups) and every user gets their own group as their default in that strategy.01:10
redrickrwp:  Makes sense, so perhaps saptech's real task is to find out what system process is writing stuff in his homedir and make it stop that mishegoss.01:11
rwpBefore changing it one must first determine what is wrong.  What is the output of "id" "id saptech" and probably also "grep '^adm:' /etc/group" so that we know the current configuration before suggesting a change to it.01:12
saptechrwp, the default is UPG, I've never seen that with different distros01:13
rwpClassical old legacy Unix typically put all users into a "users" group.  That is the alternative.  But it isn't as nice as UPG for many reasons.01:13
rwpThe idea is that a user will be in their own group.  And may also be in other groups.01:14
rwpFor example a minimum for me might be: uid=1000(rwp) gid=1000(rwp) groups=1000(rwp),4(adm),27(sudo),50(staff)01:15
saptechhere is output from the id command, https://bpaste.net/show/af6edb8f4c6601:15
saptech$ grep '^adm:' /etc/group adm:x:4:01:16
rwpGood!  Your primary group is "gid=1000(saptech)" and so when new files are created they will be of that group.01:16
rwpHmm..  Why aren't you listed in /etc/group for the adm group?01:17
saptechyes that is strange01:17
rwpAnd grep ^saptech: /etc/passwd shows saptech:x:1000:1000:...other stuff for you?01:17
rwpOkay.  Next idea.  Did the group of /home/saptech get set to be sgid adm and g+ws by mistake?01:18
rwpIf that were to happen then new files created there would assume the group set by the group of the directory with the g+ws sgid bit set.01:18
saptechit may have. When I first installed devuan, I needed adm for my external hdd01:19
saptechbut I thought I was adding my user to the adm group01:19
saptechthat last grep command gives me two No such file or directory01:20
rwpLooking I don't see you listed in the paste as being in the adm group.  You should add yourself to it.01:21
rwp"adduser saptech adm" and also to staff is convenient too "adduser saptech staff"01:22
saptechok01:22
rwpIn any case...  I suggest fixing the group of those files in your home directory.  find ~/ -group adm -exec chgrp -v saptech {} +01:22
rwpThat finds files with the group adm and executes chgrp verbosely so it will print what files it is changing to your group.  Doesn't touch other files not changed.01:23
rwpThen I wouldn't do anything more and just take a wait and see attitude.  Future files should be your upg group.  If other files show up otherwise then investigate further.01:24
saptechwow, great command, I think  :)01:26
saptechhere is the output, https://bpaste.net/show/f458a2d708c001:26
saptechyes, it changed the adm to saptech01:27
saptechrwp, thanks a heap01:28
rwpGood stuff.  Now look for files that are NOT group saptech in case they are something else: find ~/ ! -group saptech -ls01:29
rwpAlso find ~/ ! -user saptech -ls01:29
rwpIn case root owned files or whatever snuck in there too.01:30
rwp'find' is an awsomely useful command to know about.01:30
saptechlooks all files are correct now in Documents, Downloads etc01:31
saptechlike*01:31
rwpGood deal!  You are good to go then.01:32
saptechnow looking in /usr/local, some directories are showing Root Staff01:33
saptechI just created a couple of files and they have the correct groups listed01:38
rwp/usr/local is normal to be group staff.  That's standard.01:42
rwpAlthough in debian buster that is getting removed.  After two decades of good service since 1999.  Sad.01:42
saptechagain, it seems my other distros, /usr/local are root root. but I'll check to be certain when I boot into it01:43
rwpI am sure the other distros are root:root.  And Debian will be again.  But for 20 years Debian has been root:staff.  Which has been useful.01:44
saptechok, I haven't used Debian itself in a few years01:45
rwpHere is a reference: https://bugs.debian.org/538392#6201:45
saptechI guess I never noticed it when I did run debian01:45
saptechI'm not doubting you, you know wayyy more then me01:46
rwpWhen that goes away for real then I *strongly* advocate installing local software in /usr/local/stow created and owned either by the user or by group staff.  And then using GNU Stow to manage it.01:46
rwpJust a couple of weeks ago I found a Makefile misbehaving and trying to install things outside of the PREFIX=/usr/local and into /usr/lib directly!01:47
rwpRemoving group staff will have the effect that people will do 'sudo make install' instead and that will not catch those mistakes but will jab into the wrong places.01:47
rwpAnway...  I need to run off.  Good luck!01:47
saptechthanks again01:47
blebis mapping caps lock to control doable through the gui yet01:48
vvandeEverybody else probably saw this story from yesterday. I just caught up04:46
vvandehttps://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/10/systemd_bugs_qualys/04:46
* vvande gloats :)04:46
redrickYep. I posted that to the Dng mailing list.04:46
redrickI also made one ironic comment, here:  http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2019q1/013712.html04:56
XenguyIt seems like it is the inevitable 'big bug' people have been predicting, based on the attack surface04:59
XenguyFrom my impressions, I predict more of them05:00
vvandeyeah, more bugs will come05:25
vvandeHowever, if I felt that systemd was philosophically a good choice, I'd go with it despite the bugs.05:25
vvandeBut that's not the case.  :(05:26
guyhas anybody here had issues with bootloaders refusing to install no matter what06:34
gnarfacedoesn't ring a bell, guy07:54
gnarfacemaybe see if you can write zeroes to the first 2MB of the disk07:55
guytried gpt and msdos partitions, uefi and non uefi, raid and on raid07:55
guythe netinst simply does not install bootloaders, LILO and GRUB do not install07:56
xrogaangrub not installed properly?08:01
xrogaanI had that with the beta netinstal08:02
golinuxAre you installing to the device ie. /dev/sdx ?08:03
golinuxAre you talking about a usb or hard disk?08:04
guyinstalling to a hard disk. i've tried everything under the sun and it just doesnt work08:33
guyim about to try the debian stretch installer to see if that works08:34
golinuxguy: Of course it works or thousands of users would be here ranting.08:49
stripehi everyone, setting up wireless from tty, will I just need to enter the stanza into /etc/network/interfaces ? (sorry memory is going lol) cheers :)12:40
Bjornnthe was a guy here a while back, fsmithred I think was his name. He was quite active. I wonder if he is well?15:46
Bjornnhe helped me a few times15:46
Bjornnvery smart it seemed to me.15:47
plasma41Bjornn: Yes, fsmithred is behind the Devuan live ISOs and the Refracta derivative distro.17:07
golinuxBjornn et al . . . fsmithred will be back soon.18:12
Bjornnthanks plasma41 118:14
Bjornn!18:14
Bjornn:)18:14
Bjornnoh, and golinux18:15

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