freenode/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-01-14

* redrick is bemused by the scrollback, and wishes to point out to _abc_ that decaf can be an excellent choice.00:05
redrickI guess yummykittyranche must left the channel?  I have notices disabled.  I was going to suggest that if an app is believed not working on account of AppArmor, it's better to just use aa-complain to switch it from enforce mode to complain mode, and look in /var/log/syslog to see what's getting tripped.00:12
Xenguydecaf is an abomination00:12
XenguyEither drink coffee or don't00:13
Xenguy8 -D00:13
redrickPreach it, brother.00:13
Xenguy.oO( Felt a little like yoda there ... )00:13
redrickUseful for AppArmor concerns:  https://linuxhint.com/debian_apparmor_tutorial/00:15
rwp"Sleep would be nice but caffeine is my vice."00:45
Xenguylove it00:51
feedbackFresh install of devuan here. xrandr tells me "failed to get size of gamma for output default" and I can't switch to a higher resolution. Any thoughts?00:58
gnarfacemake sure Xorg auto-detect picked the right driver for your video card then create a static xorg.conf to set the gamma...00:59
gnarfacealternately you might be able to specify gamma through xrandr, not sure about that.00:59
Xenguythank the gods you're here gnarface01:06
redrickgnarface:  Yes to the latter, e.g., xrandr --output HDMI1 --gamma .5:.5:.502:04
negevhi i'm running beowulf and i've just noticed udevd in the process list..11:51
negevis that anything to be worried about?11:51
negevpackage version is 1:3.2.7+devuan1.111:53
negevi'm confused, isn't udevd part of systemd?11:53
jyriwe have eudev, the daemon name is still udevd11:56
negevah ok11:56
negevso glad i don't have cancer :D11:56
negevthanks11:57
jyrinp. :)11:57
bjbHey Xenguy17:04
bjbOops, that was yesterday17:04
chonhi. I'm trying to get a hold of the testing iso.17:07
KatolaZchon: what do you mean?17:15
KatolaZthere is no "testing iso"17:15
chonNow I know, thanks a lot17:15
KatolaZyou can use the mini.iso installer from unstable to install beowulf17:15
KatolaZthough17:15
chongotcha17:15
KatolaZhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso17:16
nemowow. chafa is sooooo much better than catimg17:16
nemothere's just no comparison17:16
nemohttps://m8y.org/tmp/console_images/17:17
nemo↑ ran a quick comparison in mate-terminal on devuan ascii17:17
nemoalso catimg took a quarter of an hour to render the high resolution font image, compared to a few seconds for chafa17:18
KatolaZmoiree: it looks like the updated vlc package is now in ascii-security17:22
bsd4mewhat is the best way to install beowulf or ceres? I need a 4.18 or higher kernel and support for elantech touchpad for this laptop, which is a lenovo ideapad 320-15ast17:51
gnarfacebsd4me: there's some forum post you should read up on it about.  the best way to get a 4.18 kernel isn't to install beowulf though, just fyi.17:53
gnarface(4.18 is in ascii-backports)17:53
bsd4meoh, ok :)17:54
bsd4meAny help with the elantech touchpad?17:54
gnarfacesorry, no experience with them.17:55
bsd4megnarface: ok, thanks for info about 4.18 tho17:56
gnarfacea quick google search suggests they've been supported since kernel 2.6.32, so you're probably fine17:56
golinuxbsd4me: You could try this: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso17:59
golinuxNot themed yet though.18:00
bsd4megolinux: Thank you. downloading now18:00
* bsd4me off to boot miniiso18:03
IatrogenicHey, I wish to completely remove Mate, but don't want to get rid of my desktop manager as well18:40
IatrogenicIs using purge suitable for this?18:41
gnarfaceIatrogenic: you should definitely use purge, for the best chances of "completely."  it might remove the desktop manager as well, but if it does, just reinstall that part.18:43
gnarfacemake sure you pay attention to the packages it wants to remove before actually letting it.  copy&paste the list into a text file to review later if you think something might go missing that you need without you knowing ahead of time that you needed it.18:44
IatrogenicThanks, gnarface. You're very helpful18:45
gnarface(to be clear;  the purge option won't affect whether or not the desktop manager gets removed as well - it's for specifying whether *config files* get removed as well)18:45
gnarfaceand you're welcome18:46
gnarfacegood luck with it18:46
gnarfaceif you followed all the rules this should work fine.  if you mixed distros or distro versions, you might hit problems.18:46
gnarfacemost the problems people run into are expected behavior combined with somewhat unfriendly error messages though18:47
IatrogenicDone. I'll restart now, thanks again18:48
gnarfaceuh... restarting shouldn't strictly have been necessary.  i was too slow to say that, but you know... just in case anyone else is reading18:51
IatrogenicI guess the dm was dependent on it as it did get removed. I ended up installing lightdm18:52
IatrogenicSeems everything is fine18:52
gnarfacesome of them work better with certain window managers than others.  it's got to do with some mess with the elogind/polkit backends being in conflict.  i don't understand it clearly and don't use a DM (i just run startx) but there's a mention in the release notes about which combinations are known to work best.  https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt18:54
rwpIatrogenic, Curious...  Are you using a Desktop Environment?  Or simply a window manager?18:54
gnarfaceif you run into problems, check there first for known-working combinations18:55
IatrogenicJust a wm, rwp18:55
rwpThen the odds are better that you won't notice any problems.  Simpler is always best.18:55
IatrogenicWill keep in mind, gnarface. I realize I should do a bit of more reading but am anxious to get decent setup18:55
gnarfaceIatrogenic: well, just make a backup when you get it then.  and if you don't for whatever reason, at least remember that i warned you that most problems are self-inflicted18:59
BeerbelottHello, is Devuan BTS able to handle upstreams?19:13
gnarfacedevuan bts == bugs.devuan.org?19:14
gnarfacewhat do you mean by "upstreams?"19:14
gnarfaceyes, if you file a bug report there, it will get eventually pushed upstream by someone if it's not a devuan problem or something they have a fix available for19:15
BeerbelottBug Tracking System. Well when reporting bugs on Debian, messages were sent to associated maintainers. Will it be the case here?19:15
BeerbelottOw OK it's manual then19:15
gnarfaceoh, i don't know if there's some sort of notice mechanism or not actually19:15
gnarfacebut i do know that due to staffing limitations, if you do know of a bug in a debian package that has not been changed for devuan, it would be faster to file it with debian.  that's not a policy thing as far as i know, just a practical matter.19:16
gnarfacethe vast majority of packages in devuan are actually completely unaltered from their original debian state19:17
gnarfaceand debian has a lot more man power to deal with issues19:17
BeerbelottWell since reportbug has been customized, it goes to bugs.devuan.org :\19:17
gnarfacea couple things have been fixed to work with devuan services by default19:18
gnarfacethat's actually an example of a bug that got files with devuan19:18
gnarfacefiled*19:18
gnarfacedebootstrap had to be patched too19:18
gnarfacethere's very little of that19:18
gnarfacethough, non-functionally the label "Debian" appears all over the place still in spots it should not19:19
gnarfaceif you file bug reports about that stuff, it'll be appreciated eventually (though not put at the highest priority)19:19
gnarfacedo you have a problem with a specific package, Beerbelott, or are you just expecting to eventually?19:21
golinuxBeerbelott: If the package has not been forked by Devuan, file the bug upstream directly to Debian.19:28
_abc_When running live, which script exactly handles the overlay mounts etc? At ssystem start? Is it in the ramdisk or on the main system19:28
golinuxBut please search to make sure it has not already been reported.19:28
gnarface_abc_: i'm not sure but i thought it used unionfs like every other live image out there.  i'd check into docs for that first.19:31
gnarfacei could be wrong about that, but it was the assumption i'd been operating under19:31
_abc_gnarface: it does but I'm interested in where it lives, I need to pick it's brains a bit19:32
minnesotags1I can't seem to connect to packagemaster or other mirrors?19:35
_abc_bbl19:36
Beerbelottgnarface: I filed it both w/ Devuan & Debian... You advice to report it directly to Debian came too late19:40
Beerbelottand it's a bit of a pain to manually edit output of reportbug before sending it...19:41
KatolaZBeerbelott: just use --bts debian...20:06
bsd4megolinux: it recognized the touchpad. Thanks again.20:09
bsd4meWhen I can get to an internet jack, I'll install it and have some fun installing system :)20:10
gnarfaceminnesotags1: seems up to me...20:19
gnarfacebsd4me: hooraay!  glad it works for you.  note that the live image's installer is limited in features (basically just copies the live image to disk) while the other installer images have detailed pre-installation customization options available20:21
BeerbelottKatolaZ: Whoops forgot about that option :)20:21
gnarfaceBeerbelott: sorry.  i'm sure it'll all work out20:21
Beerbelottthx20:21
bsd4megnarface: ok, thanks. Will look at others first20:22
gnarfacebsd4me: (oh, but beowulf is still a work in progress.  ymmv)20:22
gnarfacebsd4me: sorry, just remembered about the beowulf thing.  i don't know if there's any built installer officially ready for it yet.  normally that advice would apply though.20:23
bsd4methat's ok. I ran debian testing for years.20:23
gnarfaceyea, it's just like that.  there's only really a stable installer, and if you want to test the actual installers for testing or unstable you have to participate in testing and probably also building20:24
gnarfacejust like with debian, most the people using testing or unstable have upgraded from stable20:24
bsd4methis lenovo ideapad is a real pain, so need newest kernel/drivers/etc I can get ahold of20:24
gnarfacei've been there.  i feel your pain.20:24
bsd4meto be honest, totally hate this thing, but bought months ago without seeing it, just a huge price reduction do to several sales on top of each other and free shipping to Alaska. So jumped on it.20:26
gnarfacei would have told you not to20:26
gnarfacethere hasn't been a good thinkpad since Lenovo bought the line20:27
gnarfacealso, for future reference (just in case you don't know) stay away from Optimus hardware.  that dual-GPU laptop crap.  it's a driver nightmare.20:27
bsd4meThanks :)   but I needed something quick, heard about it and bought it. A developer spent a lot of time with me trying a bunch of kernel options, and now I can get most systems with at least a 4.16 kernel to load and run, but best is 4.18 and above20:28
gnarfacethe best strategy if you are trying to save money on a laptop and also want good compatibility is to figure out what ever overpriced thing system76 is shipping lately and find something with the same components elsewhere20:28
bsd4methanks for the warning20:28
gnarfaceyea, no problem20:29
bsd4meI really enjoyed my old dell inspiron 1520:29
gnarfaceironically Dells tend to have really good linux support20:29
gnarfacethey really ship the worst crippled BIOSes though20:29
gnarfacethough i guess for laptops that's usually fine20:30
gnarfacefor servers i'm frequently up against a wall because of some switch that is missing from the BIOS that would have been there on an ASUS motherboard20:30
bsd4meMine did well. Dunno about newer ones tho.20:30
gnarfaceso, another quick FYI; the procedure for using backports isn't different from debian, but make sure you use "ascii-backports" from the devuan repo.  don't accidentally plug in the debian stretch backports repo url.  it will in fact work but cause problems later20:31
gnarfaceif you're on beowulf already that isn't an issue20:32
bsd4meThanks! Will keep that in mind.20:32
bsd4meNope, gotta get to internet wire connection first, before trying any installation.20:33
gnarfacethat's a wise choice i think20:34
bsd4mesave a headache I think :)20:36
bsd4meHA! internet connection free now, so going to install mini.iso. Talk to you all later.20:55
_abc_Hi. Is the initrd used on devuan uncompressed in some github repo or such? If so, can someone please link me to it?22:01
gnarface_abc_: unless you're on ARM hardware, the initrd.img devuan uses is just the debian one.22:02
gnarfaceso it's... wherever debian stores it22:02
_abc_Yeah but I need to read the file a bit.22:02
_abc_ok22:02
gnarfacewell you should be able to extract the one you have with native tools22:02
gnarfacei don't know how off the top of my head but i'm sure the process is well documented... somewhere22:03
gnarfacecheck into the initramfs-tools package, i think that's the tool kit for doing this22:04
_abc_ok22:05
gnarface_abc_: uh... should mention that you shouldn't need to mess with this component in normal use cases?22:07
gnarfacethe stock initrd.img should be fine unless you're doing something special22:08
gnarfacebe careful ransacking it, you can sabotage your boot up22:08
_abc_I edited these things by hand since 1997 or so, I cut my teeth with Slackware. No worries. Am looking for a good place to apply my mods for kiosk mode22:08
gnarfaceok.  as long as you know what you're doing.  i just wanted to make sure, because even if you're rebuilding a kernel custom, you should not have to manually unpack the initrd.img at any point during the process22:09
gnarfacethe debianized kernel package and build tools automate that whole process for you22:09
gnarfaceit's a lot different from Slackware's approach22:10
_abc_I am painfully aware of that gnarface22:56
minnesotags1Nevermind....23:04
iatrogenicCalibre's not detecting my Kindle. Is this likely to be an issue specific to devuan or no?23:56
gnarfaceunlikely to be a kernel issue anyway, as the kernels are the same23:57
gnarfaceso it's not a driver issue23:58
gnarfacenot if it works in debian anyway23:58
gnarfacewhich is what i'm assuming you're inferring here23:58
gnarfacepermissions setups for non-root users would be different by default in devuan though23:59
iatrogenicI haven't tested it on debian but iirc it worked fine on other distros, but it has been awhile23:59
gnarfaceso it might be working but just inaccessible by the regular users you are expecting23:59

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