freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-01-19

arminall systems up and running. i repeat, all systems up and running.00:41
arminnew desktop machine set up with devuan. wow what a smooth sail that was.01:03
XenguyCongrats armin , and enjoy : -)01:05
Human_G33ka new one with us01:05
arminnot actually new, but it seems like i frequently get back to devuan, so i'm probably a new "constant user" or something.01:06
golinuxYeah, you've been around for a while.01:15
systemdletegnarface:  I can confirm one thing at this point:  Unplugging/plugging the USB on PC2 restores normal mouse behavior.   I am concluding that there is something about the hardware or Devuan USB driver that is not sensing the connection when the KVM returns to that PC (PC2).01:42
systemdleteThis is why I think I should try another distro on PC2.  I have plenty of extra partitions available for this; I did that intentionally.01:42
systemdleteI hope it is NOT a problem with the USB driver(s) on Devuan, but a test could help to narrow down possibilities.01:43
systemdleteAs to hardware, I do have additional computer hardware available, but I haven't used them in a number of years.  They used to work, but I have to find space to put one of them.01:45
systemdleteI have looked at log files, btw.  I don't observe any new log entries when switching back to PC2.  I left "tail -0f /var/log/messages running in a terminal window on the desktop while I am switching the KVM to PC1 and back to PC2.01:47
systemdleteNo new messages show.01:47
systemdleteBUT, when I unplug/replug the USB on PC2, lots of messages come up as if the entire USB subsystem is getting a reset or something.01:47
systemdleteI can pastebin that activity once I get ethernet access restored to PC2.  That's a different, unrelated issue which I know how to do.  Just taking some time, but my back is acheing badly the past few days, so I can't sit too long.01:48
systemdleteI just now tried the same test, but on PC1.  A lot of new messages come up in the messages log when KVM returns to PC1, and this is without touching any hardware, cables, etc.   It does this automatically.01:51
systemdleteVery similar messages to the kind I get on PC2 when KVM returns control to it.01:52
systemdleteSo it appears that PC2 is not getting some signal or the like that the USB driver needs to sense the KVM change.01:53
systemdleteBut I can't tell yet if it is SW or HW (or both).01:53
arminAfter this operation, 249 kB of additional disk space will be used.01:57
armin0% [Connecting to (2a01:9e40::251)]01:57
arminseems like has problems with their ipv601:57
arminanyone an idea why an "apt update" still uses, even though i replaced all occurances in /etc/apt/sources.list with ""?01:59
arminsystemdlete: nice nickname btw01:59
fsmithredI think the country codes don't really work yet02:00
systemdletearmin:  :)02:01
systemdletethe only trouble is, when I go to other channels to get help, some of them are not very open-minded and feel put off by it.02:01
systemdleteI guess I could create another nick and use it outside of the devuan channels (and maybe some other anti-systemd ones)02:02
arminlook ma, no systemd!02:05
XenguyMa:  armin, did you make your bed this morning young man?!02:13
arminKatolaZ: my bed actually looks like a mess right now.02:14
XenguyChaos is the precursor to Order02:14
Xenguy8 -D02:14
MinceRchaos lives in everything02:14
arminso i basically just rendered a shitload of fractals.02:14
arminlike, 1.4gb of fractals.02:15
arminand people on reddit obviously go mad about them.02:15
Xenguyfried fractals02:15
MinceRflied lice02:15
armini love fractals.02:15
XenguyThey are <quote>psychedelic</quote>02:16
XenguyHey, anybody want to fly me over to the conference in Admsterdam02:17
XenguyI'll do it, for free02:17
XenguyMinceR: Was Chaos the father of Kronos?02:18
XenguyI don't remember02:18
systemdleteIf I boot ascii or even jessie install from USB, the install seems to still look for a CD-ROM.  If it also looking for *any* kind of install medium (such as my USB stick) or only CDROM specifically?02:19
XenguySorry, this is getting OT, so switching over to #debianfork if anyone is interested02:19
armindamn, do you even have an idea how good it feels to have the whole flat systemd-free?02:21
Xenguyarmin: I feel it02:23
XenguyIt's what I originally signed up for02:24
XenguyNot some 500 pound gorilla that just 'embraces' everything02:24$ man systemd02:26
arminDisplay all 143 possibilities? (y or n)02:26
arminyes, that was a <TAB>02:26
XenguyOh, for real02:26
arminand i believe it's much much more on fedora these days02:27
Xenguyfedora is RH, so makes sense02:27
arminwell it's not like the systemd distribution of tools varies much over different distributions, it's just more recent release i guess02:28
arminand these dev guys just go all yolo and bomb everything with hyperactive omnipotent shit02:29
gnarfacesystemdlete: it means the current install medium.  the text just hasn't been updated since CDROM was the only option02:40
gnarfacesystemdlete: (remember that the hardware thinks the hybrid-iso images are CDROMs)02:41
gnarface(even when written to USB02:41
gnarfacei don't know wtf is up with the mouse dying issue though.  maybe turn legacy USB support off instead?  try that?02:41
gnarfacethe thing is, the KVM switch should not be even allowing the hardware to detect the usb disconnecting02:42
gnarfaceso that's legitimately weird02:42
gnarfaceand it suggests to me that something must be happening when the mouse just goes "idle"02:42
gnarfacethe action of the USB physical hotplugging however, that can be re-triggered by a software script somewhere...02:43
gnarfacei would very much like to know if running the script WITHOUT actually hotplugging the physical USB cable fixes the issue, too02:43
gnarfacethat would at least quite nearly eliminate the possibility of a physical connection issue02:44
systemdletegnarface:  I tried the log trace when switching to PC1 also.  It does the same thing as PC2.  The difference is that PC1 detects the change, logs it, and returns full control to the mouse (and other devices of course).   Whereas PC2 does not seem to get a clue that it needs to go through the reset procedure (or whatever it is called amongst the kErnel geeks)02:46
gnarfacesystemdlete: interesting... so you're saying PC1 actually detects a normal kvm switch action?  i don't like the implications of that.  that's opposite of what i'd consider expected behavior for a KVM switch02:47
gnarfacejust out of curiosity... does this KVM switch happen to come with a "driver disk" for Windows?02:47
systemdleteNo, no driver disk, gnarface.02:48
gnarfacei'd expect the working one to be the one that is silent at switch02:48
gnarfacei'm missing something important here... and it's bugging me because it's ringing a bell in my head... it's just not quite ringing loud enough to remember the details of the one other time i had heard of someone having a problem like this02:49
systemdlete"silent" -- you mean no logged activity by kernel?02:49
gnarfaceyea, i wouldn't expect the kernel to even notice the KVM had switched focus to another machine.  if it can, that seems like to me the KVM is not doing it's fundamental duty as a KVM switch02:49
gnarfacebut it's an important clue that could lead you to a workaround02:50
gnarfaceor maybe even a permanent fix02:50
gnarfacei know this is problematic probably, but do you have a non-wireless mouse that you could try as a test?  i'm really wondering if it's the mouse itself going to sleep02:51
systemdleteI get your meaning.  I would like for KVM switch to keep the USB line "hot" while it is off elsewhere with another client device(s)02:51
gnarfaceyea, that's what i thought they were supposed to do02:51
gnarfacedoes it have any configurations of it's own?02:51
systemdleteIf it were the mouse, though, wouldn't I see the same sort of behavior on PC1 also?02:51
gnarfacethe kvm switch i mean, does it have any configuration options?  even like... buttons or switches?02:52
gnarfaceyou'd think so, but remember PC1 has a different usb hub.   it could actually be leaving the mouse in a different power management state (if the mouse has such things)02:52
gnarfaceremember, this is all hypothetical... i'm just shooting in the dark at this point02:53
gnarfacei'm pretty sure your hardware isn't faulty but it's still not clear to me if there's a bios bug or a kernel bug02:54
systemdleteSo, you are suggesting that there is a difference in the USB hardware between the MBs of my two PCs.02:54
gnarfacethat's my primary assumption yea02:54
gnarfaceeven if they were using the same driver they could behave differently if they were different chips02:54
gnarfacei mean, it's the only possibility02:54
gnarfacebut that still doesn't narrow it down between firmware or software misbehavior02:55
gnarfaceyou said you had spare partitions so another distro doesn't sound like a bad plan as a test02:55
gnarfacedebian uses the same kernel though, so you might want to try something that uses a newer one02:55
systemdleteI was referring to DEVUAN Jesse, sorry02:56
systemdleteNo debian around here.02:56
gnarfacewell what i'm saying is that debian and devuan use the same exact kernels.  so try something that uses a different kernel version.02:57
gnarfacethen, if it works, you know it's a driver issue02:57
gnarfaceif you put in debian and it still doesn't work, you've proved nothing we didn't already know02:57
systemdleteWell, I am currently using Ascii.  That has a different kernel version... or do you mean a completely different kernel?02:58
gnarfaceascii is still only kernel 4.902:58
gnarfacethough, 4.18 is in ascii-backports, it would be worth it to try that too02:59
gnarfacehell, i'd be curious to see even what OpenBSD or Haiku do with it02:59
gnarfacebut you have to prioritize these tests on your own02:59
systemdleteYeah, OK.  Really, thanks for these helpful suggestions.03:03
systemdleteI might try OpenBSD or Haiku.03:04
systemdleteNow here is something helpful:  I just figured out that if shift-shift-2 doesn't wake the mouse, doing shift-shift-2 a second time (without switching to another machine) may restore the mouse.  Which means I should not have to do the unplug-plug USB cable dance each time03:06
systemdleteStill the same issue, I think, And I will have to keep mucking around to see if this is as reliable as the cable trick03:07
gnarfaceyea, someone in 2005 suggested that if you just bail out of X to a virtual terminal and back, that should reset the mouse too.  they were complaining about different hardware though.03:07
gnarfacei haven't yet seen anything in the form of a fix that involves changing module options, bios options, or kernel versions03:07
systemdletedifferent in what way?  Different MB, KVM, mouse?03:07
gnarfacedifferent everything03:08
gnarfacedifferent kvm brand (some belkin thing) and different mouse brand03:08
gnarfacesome people just tell him to buy a different one03:08
gnarfacesome people say to buy a different *mouse*03:08
systemdleteI am stuck trying to install Jessie on PC2 hardware.  I've only installed Jessie in a VM on PC1 and PC2.  The PC2 host is Ascii of course.03:08
gnarfacewhy jessie?03:09
systemdleteStuck where the install cannot detect my "CDROM" (install media, my USB stick).  THis is even though the install was booted off the USB stick!!!!!!03:09
gnarfacejust hit enter again, it doesn't find it?03:09
gnarfacethat's weird...03:09
gnarfacei haven't seen that happen03:10
systemdleteJessie because I thought it was different than Ascii, but maybe that is not true as you just pointed out moments ago03:10
gnarfacejessie IS different from ascii, but in the wrong direction.  it's OLDER, and by a lot03:10
gnarfacekernel 3.16 i think03:10
gnarfacethough the install disk probably shipped with 3.203:10
gnarfacedevuan jessie corresponds to debian jessie03:11
gnarfaceand devuan ascii corresponds to debian stretch03:11
gnarfaceeh, it might still tell you something to try it though.  i can't say i'm sure it won't.03:12
systemdleteBut... the 4.x series is the same as 3.x.   Linus decided to bump the major number only because.03:13
gnarfaceit's different by a lot of years of driver updates too though03:13
systemdleteSo the question really is, is the 3.2 kernel in Jessie really that different from 4.x?03:13
gnarfacemaybe not structurally or functionally, but from a hardware support perspective, 4.x has a lot of new stuff03:13
gnarfacethe release date for 4.9 is in 201603:14
gnarfacethe release date for 3.2 is in 201203:14
systemdletedifferent.  Definitely different.03:15
systemdleteSo Jessie should be different enough than Ascii to make this test worthwhile.03:15
gnarfaceit should03:15
systemdleteBut, back to my current stumblebum03:15
systemdletewtf can't jessie find my usb stick?  Is Debian/Devuan Jessie really that far back in hardware support?03:16
systemdleteI wouldn't know.  I only came to Devuan as a CentOS 6 refugee with no where else to live.03:16
gnarfaceit doesn't seem like it should be THAT old but i don't know fur sure03:16
gnarface*for sure03:16
systemdleteI escaped the coming terror of SystemD in CentOS 7, just in a nick of time.03:16
gnarfacedid you do the signature and checksum verifications on the image before you dd'd to the USB key?03:17
gnarfacewe have seen one or two incidents of obscure failure based on images corrupted in transit03:17
gnarfacehypothetically it might complain it's missing the CDROM if it just fails to unpack the data it finds03:18
systemdletewhich begs an issue I should have mentioned to you.  Unetbootin.03:19
gnarfacethis actually happened to someone else - or something very similar at least.  they had a corrupted image that wasn't too corrupted to boot, but it failed during install at some point03:19
systemdleteI have heard varying charges about unetbootin.  I wonder if this could be related.03:20
gnarfaceunetbootin? nobody uses that anymore since the hybrid-iso images03:20
gnarfacesomeone proved to me you could still use it successfully for hybrid-iso images, but i wasn't able to reproduce the test on my own and dd or cp are a lot easier to use03:21
gnarface basically unetbootin isn't officially deprecated, but sortof just de-facto deprecated03:21
gnarfaceyou shouldn't need it anymore unless you're dealing with very old hardware03:22
systemdleteIt should be deprecated.  And spat upon and widely hated.  I mean if you are going to deprecate someone or something, go all the way.03:22
fsmithred3.2 was wheezy. Jessie has 3.1603:23
gnarfacepresumably it still does it's job when needed.  it will probably evaporate with the last of that generation of BIOS03:23
systemdlete(what is wrong with the word "obsolescent?"  That used to work quite sufficiently.   Was there some need for a new term?)03:23
systemdlete(deprecate actually means to insult someone or something.  It has nothing to do with obsolescence.  Then again "devolve" has nothing to do with evolution either, but people seem to feel free to use it that way.  I wonder what a "devolved" species might look like?)03:24
systemdletewhat is the key combination for that emoticon?03:25
systemdleteI promise not to associate with anything that has been deprecated.  I do not care to be associated with them anymore.03:26
systemdlete(fsmithred said this.)03:26
fsmithredI've had the problem of booting installer from usb and then it can't find the cdrom03:26
gnarfacesystemdlete: i don't think that's an emoticon.  i think it's a species of amphibious fish03:26
fsmithredI worked around it by making a symlink03:26
systemdleteoh, ok.  So humans can actually become fish again.03:26
systemdleteIf they devolve (as the word is misused)03:27
gnarfaceoh, my bad, technically it's a salamander.  but in Mexico they call it "walking fish"03:27
fsmithredwe start out as fish03:27
systemdletething is, fsmithred, there is no CDROM at all on the machine.  So of course it won't find it.  But what if I did have one -- would install try to mount the CDROM and continue from that?03:27
gnarfaceit's not a fish that grew legs, it's a salamander that grew gills03:27
fsmithredit became an adult without developing adult charateristics (i.e. still in juvenile stage)03:28
fsmithredat least that's the ones at high altitude where there's not much iodine.03:29
systemdletelike many of our politicians03:29
fsmithredpretty sure that's the story.03:29
systemdleteI demand a wall or I will stop EVERYTHING.03:29
fsmithredyou don't need a cdrom drive, just a symlink to what looks like a cdrom03:30
gnarfacesystemdlete: you said you're booting a VM with that installer that can't find itself?  can you tell the VM that the image is on a CDROM instead of a USB key?03:30
gnarfaceor yea, try the symlink fix03:30
systemdleteHow were people able to install Devuan Jessie if they made a USB stick not a CDROM?03:30
fsmithredusually it works right03:30
gnarfacei never had that problem so i'm guessing you've got another corner case here03:30
fsmithredbut I've seen the problem with devuan and debian installer isos03:30
fsmithredbut yeah, if it's a vm, just use the iso03:31
systemdleteThere is no VM gnarface.  Rememeber, I am trying to install a (HW-install) replacement for Ascii on my PC2.03:31
gnarfacesystemdlete: sorry, i thought you said you were trying to put jessie into a VM as a test first03:31
fsmithredyou used dd to prepare the usb?03:31
systemdleteNo.  Worse.  Much worse, fsmithred.  I used unetbootin03:32
fsmithredoh, that might be the problem03:32
fsmithredwhy did you do that?03:32
fsmithredis it a multi-boot usb?03:33
systemdleteAn image writing tool that cannot just do its job without imparting usual software behavior?03:33
gnarfacei think he just followed outdated advise03:33
systemdleteNo.  It is a tool I've used many times in the past.  Usually, without incident.03:33
systemdleteIt seems like it is only having issues recently, with USB sticks.03:33
systemdleteanyway, I shall delete it from my arsenal of tools03:34
gnarfacesystemdlete: i think the issue is that unetbootin changes the contents of the image in a way that doesn't account for hybrid-iso images correctly by default03:34
gnarfacethe whole point of the hybrid-iso format though was to dodge that task at image writing time though03:34
systemdleteis the ISO image I pulled from devuan's website this "hybrid-iso" format?03:34
gnarfaceso it's better to use dd for hybrid-iso images at least, because dd is dumb and won't screw with your image contents03:34
gnarfaceyea, pretty much everyone is using hybrid-iso format installers and live images these days.  it just makes it so much more convenient to have the same image that will work from any disk type03:35
systemdletebut, gnarface, will it munge with the USB's bootloader?03:35
gnarfacedd shouldn't change *anything*03:35
gnarfaceunless you do it wrong03:35
systemdletedd CAN write to the boot track.03:36
gnarfaceyes, it's just a dumb block-by-block copy03:36
systemdleteor do I avoid that when using dd to create my bootable stick?\03:36
fsmithredyes, you want it to do that so it boots03:36
gnarfacesystemdlete: to be clear, you're planning on overwriting the contents of the USB key, right?03:36
fsmithreddd if=/path/to/iso of=/usb-mountpoint03:36
systemdletelast time I used dd, it made the stick unbootable.  I had to go through many steps to get it to boot again03:37
fsmithred /dev/whatever03:37
systemdleteyeah, I know. As I said, I've used it before.03:37
gnarfacedon't specify a block size when writing with dd.  that's what usually screws people up.03:37
fsmithrednot mountpoint - it should not be mounted03:37
systemdleteI will make a new stick image... bb in a few...03:37
gnarfacethe hybrid-iso images are self-contained.  they have their own boot sector built in03:37
gnarface(hence we don't need unetbootin)03:38
gnarfaceit's actually some fancy trick that embeds every type of boot sector into one image somehow03:38
systemdletebtw, does the jessie (or ascii) installer have a step where It allows me to pick with partition to install to?   Like a custom disk configuration step like installers from the past?03:38
gnarfacei don't understand the details.  it sounds like a nasty hack, frankly.  but it works good.03:38
gnarfacemake sure you choose "expert" install and manual partitioning03:39
systemdleteI did choose expert graphical install, but saw no partitioning step03:39
gnarfacehmmm. should have been there03:39
gnarfacewait, not from the live image right?03:39
gnarfacefrom the netinstall image?03:39
systemdleteit's a testbox, but I'd prefer not to kill what I already have installed.03:39
gnarfacei never use the graphical mode, i seem to remember someone complaining that the manual partitioning option was non-obvious in there03:40
gnarfacejust pick expert in the regular mode03:40
gnarfaceyep, that's the right one03:41
gnarfaceyea, those both look right...03:41
systemdletethose are the ONLY devuan images I have03:41
gnarfaceok, just had to make sure.  some people have complained about the live installer being limited in features03:41
gnarface(it is)03:41
systemdletedd if=devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_NETINST.iso of=/dev/sde03:42
systemdleteas root, from the PC1 host03:42
gnarfacethat's right.  just make sure /dev/sde is right03:43
gnarfaceyou really don't want to point this at the wrong drive, obviously03:43
gnarfaceit'll be REALLY slow03:43
systemdleteI have enough alligators to wrestle atm03:43
gnarfaceand it will spit out TWO numbers at the end.  make sure they're the SAME03:43
systemdletesome advice on the web suggest using a HUGE block size03:43
gnarfacedon't ever do that for writes.03:44
gnarfaceonly specify a huge block size with dd on writes if you're trying to speed up writing a lot of zeros.  it can cause problems and corrupt the write silently if you go above some device-specific threshold03:44
fsmithredis it related to disk cache size?03:45
gnarfacesome times it's safe to go up to 8MB blocks on write and some stuff can only handle 1MB blocks03:45
gnarfacefsmithred: maybe, i was never sure.03:45
fsmithredI found that bs=65536 was fastest on this computer03:46
gnarfacei did a lot of testing and found out it doesn't speed up anything even a little over bs=512 and just causes compatibility problems.   my tests showed that the only safe time to specify something like bs=8M was on reads03:46
fsmithredbut often I use 1M03:46
gnarfaceon reads, a large block size WILL safely speed up a lot of media03:46
gnarfaceon writes, yea i did assume it had something to do with glitching out the write-back cache03:47
systemdleteno valid release file.  May cause issues later on.  Ignore?03:49
systemdletesomebody forgot somethting?03:49
systemdleteis it safe to continue?  (I will anyway, this is only a testbox after all)03:51
fsmithreddid you select a repo?03:51
fsmithred(meaning, which one?)03:52
systemdleteno.  I was never asked.03:52
systemdleteAnd I still don't see a partitioning step on the list of steps, btw.03:52
systemdleteI am using the graphical expert install03:52
systemdletewhich I got to from a secondary menu in the first screen of the install03:52
Jjp137a lot of the steps on the expert install don't appear until you do some of the initial steps first03:53
systemdletethe problem here is that it failed to detect a CDROM (and yes, this is the dd'd stick, as we discussed)03:53
systemdleteok, thanks Jjp137.  Just checking03:53
systemdletemy stick is blinking actively btw03:54
systemdleteeven though it is not doing anything atm03:54
systemdletethe install is stalled at the point where it wants to find a CDROM03:54
Jjp137yea I think the bulk of the steps appear when more components are loaded...which is the problem you're having right now and I have no ideas about that :\03:54
systemdletethe install will be very disappointed no matter what it does.  I have no CDROM on PC203:54
fsmithredwhat does df -h show you?03:55
systemdleteSo should I deprecate this?03:55
Xenguydisk space space space03:56
systemdletejust /dev and /run03:56
fsmithredI think if you want to install jessie, then you should install jessie03:56
systemdlete1T of space, Xenguy.  But good to check.03:56
XenguyThat was fsmithred 's idea tho03:57
fsmithredhow about 'mount'?03:57
systemdlete /run /proc /sys /dev /dev/pts and of course rootfs on /03:58
systemdleteI think it should be deprecated.  It deserves a good insult.03:59
systemdlete (being sarcastic here, don't worry)03:59
XenguyYer mother wears army boots!03:59
systemdletestylish aint she?04:00
systemdletejealous Xenguy?04:00
XenguyIt's an olde classic insult, that boys would share together04:00
systemdleteYes.  I remember!04:00
XenguyGoes way back04:00
systemdletewaaaaay back, indeed04:01
systemdleteso fsmithred, what do I symlink?04:01
XenguyI never really know when these things got invented, but sounds plausible04:01
systemdleteFirst time I remember was a friend named "Ronny" when I went to HS in south carolina in the 1970s04:01
systemdletethat's why I said that.04:02
furrywolfI like women who wear boots.  :P04:02
systemdleteand I think the way he said it was "Yo mama wears army boots," with a deep southern accent, one I never mastered04:02
Xenguyhuh, yeah, the combat boot never really goes out of style04:02
fsmithredisn't the usb mounted somewhere?04:02
systemdletefurrywolf:  especially if that's all they ever wear, right?  :D04:02
XenguyYou can leave your hat on04:02
systemdletefsmithred:  That should show up in mount output04:03
systemdleteI don't see that04:03
furrywolfsystemdlete:  I don't know about "ever"...04:04
systemdletehat and boots.  Cute.04:04
Xenguywink wink nudge nudge04:04
systemdleteespecially if they are in a still shot in the snow...04:04
systemdleteback to my install woes, people04:05
furrywolfother things acceptable to wear include my aslan jaguar or anything from oneeyeddoe.  :P04:05
Xenguypurrrrrr, anything jaguar always gets my attention...04:06
XenguyIt's so tacky, yet, scrumpios04:06
systemdleteHow has any human being ever been able to install Devuan jessie to hardware?  How can I be the only person who can't do this?04:06
furrywolfumm, yeah, you clearly have no idea what it is.04:06
Xenguysystemdlete: No way, say it ain't so bro04:07
Xenguyfurrywolf: Well spell it out if you must04:07
systemdleteAm I weak?  Cursed, perhaps?  Or is this punishment for my mis-deeds of the past?04:07
XenguyWhat are the symptoms?04:08
furrywolfit's punishment for being short an 'e'.  :)04:08
XenguyThose damn 'e's, most common thingie of that category04:08
systemdleteIs my hardware simply incapable of installing anything more sophisticated than some piece of (alleged) operating system from Microsoft?04:08
systemdletethe first 'e' is deprecated, OK?04:09
systemdletemy nick is devolved04:09
fsmithredmaybe you can mount the usb and then make a symlink to it04:09
systemdleteok, fsmithred.04:09
fsmithredI don't remember exactly what I did.04:09
fsmithredor mount the usb to /media/cdrom04:10
systemdletetherre is no "lsusb" available, apparently04:11
fsmithredfdisk -l?04:12
systemdletebut lspci shows the usb devices for my mouse, keyboard, KVM ... but not the stick that started this whole install system!04:12
systemdletethere is no fdisk04:13
systemdleteno lspci or fdisk04:13
fsmithredI was afraid of that04:13
systemdletels /dev/sd* shows /dev/sda and /dev/sda[1-8]04:14
systemdleteThat's my hard disk on PC2.04:15
systemdleteno sign of /dev/sdb or the like, for the stick04:15
systemdletels /dev/usb only has hiddev004:15
fsmithredmaybe /dev/cdrom?04:15
fsmithredno /dev/sr004:16
systemdleteno, no /dev/cdrom04:16
systemdletenow, /dev/bus/usb (not /dev/usb) does show 7 buses and some have devices (or maybe other hubs) on them04:18
systemdletebut not sure which one would be the cdrom or stick, if any of them are04:19
systemdletefsmithred: No /dev/cdrom or /dev/sr0, no)04:19
fsmithredhow old is the hardware?04:21
fsmithredis there a setting in the bios to treat the usb like a floppy?04:21
systemdletenot sure.04:24
systemdletethe hardware is AM3 era, so that tells a story.  Probably 8-10 years old technologically.04:25
systemdletebut it still should work04:25
systemdletehey, before I tore the guts out of the case and replaced it, it had a Pentium 5 architecture with like 20 mb of ram04:25
systemdleteIt was a neat little case I bought that way at Fry's...04:26
systemdletealways worked well, though.  I used it as a router for a while04:26
systemdletemaybe it was 100mb, I don't remember now.04:26
systemdleteI have the old mb here...04:27
systemdletethe old board had one ISA slot and 3 PCI slots.  The new board is a MSI 7641 (760GM-P23), not a bad board at all.  I've been using this PC for my testbox with Ascii running on it without a problem.   I do recall I had some issues you helped me with when I was installing Ascii though.04:28
systemdleteI don't recall now what those were.  I don't think they were the same issues.04:29
fsmithredwhy do you want jessie?04:29
fsmithrednot that it's a bad thing. I'm on jessie right now. But it's an old install.04:30
systemdleteI'm trying to see if the USB drivers in Jessie might work with my KVM.  The Ascii drivers have a problem, apparently, or maybe it is the MB hardware, I just don't know.04:30
systemdleteThe mouse locks up when I switch to the testbox.  I have to wriggle, jiggle, or diggle to make it work again.04:31
systemdleteunplug/replug the usb cable to the KVM04:31
fsmithredyeah, I probably can't help with that. I had a kvm once, but it had problems.04:31
systemdleteshift-shift-2 after returning to the testbox, that sort of thing.04:32
systemdleteI've had KVMs in the past.  Not many issues I can recall.04:32
fsmithredI use vnc now if I have more computers than monitors.04:32
systemdleteI thought of using VNC.  Then, when I was at Fry's, they had all these bins full of really neat gadgets, and I... I... uh04:33
systemdletekinda succumbed to the temptation and bought like04:34
systemdleteone of everything...04:34
fsmithredso now you have to make it all work04:34
systemdletefsmithred!  Most of them were only $1 -- how could I NOT do it?04:34
fsmithredwhere is this store?04:35
systemdletethe KVM was actually on a separate shelf and cost quite a few bucks actually.04:35
systemdleteThis Fry's used to be an Incredible Universe, which was started and owned by Tandy (the now-defunct Radio Shack)04:35
gnarfaceit's a west coast US thing04:35
gnarfacei don't think they even have them on east coast04:36
systemdleteGnarface:  Fry's is all over the country04:36
systemdleteThere was one in Alabama04:36
fsmithredI thought it was west coast04:36
systemdletelocations, maybe?04:36
systemdleteThey are all over.04:36
furrywolfI've only ever been to one once.  It had an egyptian thing going on.  I didn't buy anything.04:36
gnarfacehmm. huh04:37
gnarfacetheir locations page doesn't list one in alabama04:37
gnarfacei heard they're not in NY or Georgia either04:38
systemdletefurrywolf.  How did you manage to get out of there with your credit line unscathed?  Teach me.04:38
furrywolfthey have computers in alabama?  I mean, they're so far backwards in every other way....04:38
gnarfacei just assumed they were only west coast, but there IS a location listed in Georgia....04:38
gnarfacethey must be spreading out04:38
systemdletethere USED to be one in  Birmingham, AL, I thought  I looked it up when I lived there about 6 or 7 years ago.04:39
systemdleteThey really DO have computers in Alabama.  You have to peddle though.04:39
systemdleteWhen I walk in the front door at Fry's, its' really weird.  I start to feel a pull on my wallet, and there are no pick-pocketers around.04:40
systemdleteIt's like it wants to come out and play or something.  Is this normal?  I also have had this experience at Staples and most hardware stores04:41
systemdleteEspecially ACE04:41
furrywolf... computer stores, hardware stores, adult toy stores,...04:41
systemdleteI tried, fsmithred. Honestly, I DID try not to buy anything.04:41
systemdleteSo I am sorry I must lean on you to help me.  But the problem at hand actually is not related to the switch.04:42
systemdleteI am just trying to install Jessie, that's all.04:42
systemdleteAnd as far as my need for interdiction, I'll be on Dr. Phil next month...04:44
systemdletewhy what?04:44
fsmithredmaybe use the live iso04:45
systemdletefsmithred:  OK.04:45
systemdleteI'll try that.04:45
fsmithredyou just want to install to one or two partitions?04:45
watchcatwhy install jessie? ascii rocks.04:45
systemdleteSame dd trick, right?04:45
systemdletejust had a thought.  Bad USB stick?  Fairly new and not used very much, maybe 20 times total.04:58
systemdletebut these sticks have been known to flake...04:58
systemdleteand, if I do need one, it just so happens that Fry's is having a sale on 128GB drives...04:58
* systemdlete runs and hides04:58
systemdleteI'm becoming suspicious of this stick.  Booting it with the live iso for jessie, and tons and tons of usb errors05:12
systemdleteI'll look around for another stick...05:12
saptechHi all17:37
KatolaZhi saptech17:38
saptechI have my Brother AIO printer/scanner setup. the printer is working but can't seem to get the scanner working17:38
saptechthe command, sudo scanimage -L, no scanner identified. sane-find-scanner 'found USB scanner (vendor=0x04f9, product=0x016d) at libusb:004:002'. some commands finding it17:40
saptechany ideas about getting this working?17:40
KatolaZsaptech: can you use the scanner as root?17:40
saptechI haven't tried it as root17:41
saptechlet me try17:41
saptechKatolaZ, same message, no scanners found17:42
saptechi'm using simple-scan & xsane17:43
KatolaZbut you wrote above that sane-find-scanner can find it17:43
saptechthat is odd17:43
saptechwhen I type, brscan-skey  -l, I get 'MFC-5440CN        : brother2:bus5;dev1  : USB        Not registered'17:44
saptechtyping this command, ls /usr/lib{,64}/sane/* | grep "libsane-brother", I get /usr/lib64/sane/, /usr/lib64/sane/, /usr/lib64/sane/
saptechI edited /lib/udev/rules.d/60-libsane.rules, let me see if it works17:58
saptechit didn't work18:03
saptechI found this searching on linuxmint forum18:12
saptechCommand : sudo cp /usr/lib64/sane/libsane-brother* /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/sane18:12
saptechthe scanner is working now18:12
KatolaZsaptech: good to know :)19:50
pekmanBomb of the day!
KatolaZFirst Devuan Conference -- Amsterdam, 5th-7th April 201920:39
golinuxpekman: We've been chewing on that for days over at FDN.
XenguyHuh, interesting news about the Debian systemd maintainer23:17
gnarfacei think it's possible the importance of this is being inflated artificially but it is interesting...23:49

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