freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2019-01-27

shnapsHo-ho-ho comrades! I'm with devuan now. Have no idea where to start configuring it. Does devuan have guide?00:56
friendofafriendshnaps: I'd probably start here.  https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/00:57
friendofafriendAnd it's good to see another systemd refugee.00:57
debdogI'd start with the things I'd not agree with00:58
James1138https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiVvpDT04zgAhVI34MKHZicA5A4ChC3AggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwK0nluO_Nk4&usg=AOvVaw3apLiYiAvhgmak38Xvd4Qy00:59
shnapsNice, thanks! Also, is debian wiki like 90% work for devuan?01:04
DonkeyHoteieverything that does not relate to pkgs that indirectly depend on systemd should01:07
shnaps_DonkeyHotei: okay, got it01:12
DonkeyHoteii'm still hoping some kind soul will upload all the pkgs that devuan forked to a launchpad ppa to be auto-rebuilt against the ubuntu repositories01:13
shnapsSo they will be rebuilded without pkgs/systemd dependencies?01:15
fsmithredun-buntu?01:17
DonkeyHoteiu-vua-ntu, if you will01:20
golinuxDonkeyHotei: It's not that easy because Devuan is not Ubuntu.  There would certainly be version conflicts.01:24
DonkeyHoteidevuan has existed since well before the most recent ubuntu LTS version freeze, so that wouldn't necessarily be a blocker01:26
DonkeyHoteicompared to all the packages that go unchanged from debian sid to ubuntu, devuan has forked relatively few01:27
golinuxBut they might conflict with native Ubuntu packages01:36
golinuxThat would be a real hairball and most likely an exercise in futility.01:36
DonkeyHoteiit would not be trivial, but i do not believe it would be futile01:38
fsmithredI think it would just be late. Ubuntu is based on unstable.01:38
fsmithredwhat was last lts?01:39
DonkeyHoteialmost a year ago01:39
fsmithred18.x?01:39
DonkeyHoteiyeah01:39
fsmithredyou know what kernel or libc6 version it has?01:39
DonkeyHoteii will check packages.ubuntu.com01:40
DonkeyHotei4.15 kernel01:43
fsmithredglibc-2.2801:43
DonkeyHotei2.27 according to my search01:44
fsmithredsorry 2.27 in buntu01:44
fsmithred2.28 in beowulf, 2.24 in ascii01:44
fsmithredmight work with beowulf stuff when it's done.01:45
DonkeyHotei2.28 is in 18.10 (non-LTS)01:45
fsmithredor maybe there will be enough interest by next lts01:46
DonkeyHoteii said that prior to the current LTS01:46
fsmithredand maybe more of our changes will migrate into debian and consequently to ubuntu01:46
fsmithredmore people are interested since you last said it01:47
DonkeyHoteiprevious LTS would likely not have worked, but 2.27/4.15 is close enough01:49
DonkeyHoteiand the rebuilding of binary pkgs would be automatic via launchpad, since ubuntu is all about source-only uploads01:50
DonkeyHoteithe result would require apt pinning to stay systemd-free, but as long as one isn't using the gnome flavor, should be possible01:52
roo^yi wish devuan was also being developed for "phones", like the UBPorts team, carrying on from what was ubuntu touch01:53
DonkeyHoteiubuntu touch would've been better if it hadn't borrowed some of the worst design elements of iOS01:56
roo^ythere was a experimental devuan puppylinux OS for PC, but it didn't gain a heap of interest, as puppylinux already doesn't use systemd01:58
DonkeyHoteiand ubuntu touch tried to shed the ecosystem of existing apps for every platform, including gnu/linux01:58
roo^yi see, canical(spl) would've wanted their own *app store*01:59
DonkeyHoteithere was a parallel project, kubuntu phone, that didn't get as much attention and didn't have those problems, but of course it never really worked02:01
roo^ymarketing what people think as a heavy desktop environment KDE, onto a tiny innocent baby-faced device, might have people not buying into the idea :P02:03
DonkeyHoteikde has serious identity problems02:04
shnapsCan I get some help? So, I would like to install telegram messenger. But I'm not able to find it in devuan. But I found it in debian repo. What should I do now? Link: https://packages.debian.org/en/sid/telegram-desktop02:04
DonkeyHoteido you need telegram installed systemwide? because the installer on the telegram website will happily put it in your home dir AND keep it updated02:06
shnapsI guess no. But if I will ever need some stuff systemwide, what should I do? Want to know just in case02:07
DonkeyHoteiit's likely missing due to some systemd shenanigans02:11
Jjp137nah, it's in ascii-backports02:12
shnapsOh, I should enable it02:12
golinuxThis is a Devuan help channel not a general chat channel.  That happens on #debianfork02:13
fsmithredtelegram-desktop - official telegram messaging app02:44
fsmithredtelegram-cli - Command-line interface for Telegram messenger02:44
fsmithred1.1.23-1~bpo9+1 in ascii-backports02:44
fsmithreddamn, he's gone02:45
DonkeyHoteii think the current version is 1.5.802:48
fsmithred1.5.4 is in beowulf/ceres02:53
redrickAnyone else able to load https://dev1galaxy.org/ in a Web browser?05:34
Jjp137hm works for me...05:35
redrickGetting ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR05:38
redrickAnd then in a virtual machine's browser, I got 'Your IP address has been tagged as dubious.  If this is in error, please contact dev1galaxy forum administrators on #d1g-users at freenode.05:39
redrickI guess that's my nexed visit.05:40
redricknext, even.05:40
Jjp137huh I didn't even know there was a #d1g-users channel05:43
watchcatworks for me, also.05:48
redrickHaving cross-checked on a separate machine, I got the we-hate-your-IP response there, too.  So, I suspect that's the underlying issue.05:54
redrick(Checked with multiple Web browsers on multiple machines.)05:54
g4570nI didn't knew of that channel05:55
shnapsDoes live iso have list of apps that been installed?13:55
fsmithredshnaps, I don't think I made a package list14:01
fsmithredbut I can14:01
shnapsfsmithred, it would be cool14:02
fsmithredone sec14:05
shnapsSure14:06
fsmithredhttps://termbin.com/nru614:07
fsmithredthat's amd64. The i386 is almost the same. (different grub and a few different libs)14:08
shnapsThanks! Also, that's a lot of packages :)14:10
fsmithredaround 140014:11
fsmithredit's very close to what you get if you install xfce desktop in a netinstall14:12
shnapsCool! I'm looking through the list now14:16
fsmithredsomething in particular you're looking for?14:17
shnapsNope, just curious what been installed. Never used live systems before(except ubuntu)14:19
fsmithredubuntu is how I started making live systems - I needed to boot live-CD and move a bunch of files, tried ubuntu but it didn't have rsync.14:20
fsmithredso I learned how to make my own.14:20
furrymcgeedo you have a intro how to build the live cd?14:23
shnapsLol, this is interesting way of dealing with a problem of 1 missing package14:25
shnapsNope, haven't seen it yet14:25
fsmithredfurrymcgee, I wrote a howto for live-sdk, but it's slightly outdated14:26
fsmithredthat's how the official live isos are made14:26
fsmithredyou can also make your own with refractasnapshot14:26
fsmithredhttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=551 - live-sdk14:27
fsmithredhttps://refracta.org/docs/readme.refractasnapshot.txt14:29
fsmithredlive-sdk is better for automation and for making multiple arches14:29
fsmithredrefractasnapshot is better for a one-off14:29
fsmithredinstall your system, configure it the way you want, run refractasnapshot, and you have a live-iso copy of your system.14:30
fsmithredIf you include refractainstaller, then your iso is ready for installing14:30
fsmithredthere are a few people using live-build in devuan. I'm not one of them.14:32
furrymcgeedo you have something like preseed in the live image?14:36
fsmithredno14:37
fsmithredif you want to make changes...14:37
fsmithredmake those changes in the running live system, and they will be copied to the hard disk14:37
fsmithredwysiwyg14:38
furrymcgeeIm looking for full automated installation with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive14:42
furrymcgeecurrently Im using devuan-sdk it needs debian-installer but I like the tasksel14:48
fsmithredtalk to aitor - he's managed to get d-i to work with live-sdk14:50
fsmithredhttps://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190106.092751.a270a37a.en.html14:52
furrymcgeethanks fsmithred I will see the rebuild of d-i is something I would like to avoid in devuan-sdk15:21
fsmithredlol15:21
fsmithredrefractainstaller is a bash script, so you can hack it to do what you want15:22
fsmithredif you want to make a small live system to install, you could include tasksel. In the middle of the install, it pauses to let you do stuff in chroot. Run tasksel in the chrooted installation.15:23
furrymcgeerefracta is interesting besides tasksel Im not sure if there is anything else from d-i and the udeb packages15:34
fsmithredknowing how way d-i figures out which grub to install might be useful15:42
fsmithredand network detection15:42
fsmithredbut I've never looked at that closely, and I understand it's a big mess.15:42
fsmithredI mean d-i is a big mess, not just the network part.15:43
fsmithredrefractainstaller is a small mess15:43
furrymcgeethere is a difference is hardware requirements I guess15:46
fsmithredwhy?15:49
fsmithredfurrymcgee, what difference do you mean?15:51
shnapsCan I get some help? Just downloaded firefox66 from firefox site. Unpacked it in folder, created symlink in /usr/bin and saved old firefox link. Now I want to get firefox66 launcher/icon, but seems like it haven't been created. What should I do?15:57
fsmithredcreate your own launcher15:57
fsmithredxfce?15:57
shnapsYep15:57
fsmithredright-click on panel15:57
fsmithredPanel, Add new items15:58
shnapsBut isn't it supposed to be created?15:58
fsmithredhuh?15:58
fsmithredyou could edit /usr/share/applications/firefox-esr.desktop15:59
fsmithredchange the Exec= to point to the new ff15:59
shnapsI mean, when I installed couple other apps same way, I got launchers/icons in ~/.local/share folder. But seems like Firefox haven't done any of this stuff for me15:59
fsmithredmust not have been the same way15:59
stqnshnaps: typically software you don’t install using the system’s package manager don’t add menu icons/shortcuts themselves.16:00
fsmithredff from mozilla is just an un-pack16:00
fsmithrednot really installed16:00
shnapsOh16:00
fsmithredapt doesn't know it's there16:00
shnapsI don't know why I been thinking that it does create .desktop file16:01
furrymcgeed-i supports embedded devices, is this not the reason to build separate udeb packages?16:07
fsmithredprobably a few reasons for udebs, but yeah, d-i works on greater variety of hardware16:08
fsmithredI don't know if refractainstaller works on arches other than amd64/i386. Never tried it.16:09
fsmithredd-i can do a lot more (lvm, raid)16:10
fsmithredautomatic partitioning16:10
fsmithredalso gives you the latest software if you do netinstall. Live installer or install from media only gives you what existed when the iso was made.16:13
EstelaI love when on my body cum, find me here - http://gmy.su/:45ny20:45
system32Hi22:33
system32how can i check the smart status of my hdd ?22:34
system32the OS has no gui22:34
system32or de.22:34
shnapsSo, I decided that I want to install devuan from scratch without live cd. Downloaded it, burned to usb an for some reason I'm getting error that installation CD is wrong22:34
shnapsWhy is that?22:34
system32fsck ? it cant run when the main FS is mounted22:35
system32welp22:35
debdogsystem32: keyword here is package smartmontools https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/smartmontools/filelist22:37
helios21 system32: about SMART status… smartctl -a or -x on drive.22:37
helios21system32: package as debdog mentioned22:37
system32can it run without a GUI ?22:38
helios21its a shell command22:38
helios21i.e. has no gui22:38
system32no the smartmontools thing22:38
debdog:)22:38
helios21smartctl is the command that is shipped in smartmontools package22:38
system32smartmontools is pre-installed ?22:39
helios21smartd is a daemon in recording changes and issuing self-tests, also in the smartmontools package... as far as I am aware there is zero GUI related programs within smartmontools package22:39
fsmithredshnaps, did you use dd or cat to image the usb?22:39
helios21I bet smartmontools is an optional package22:39
fsmithredsmartmontools is not automatically installed22:39
shnapsfsmithred, none of them. multiibootusb from github22:40
system32apt install smartmontools ? btw that link just shows some directories22:40
system32btw the drive that im trying to check is a usb drive22:41
debdogsystem32: that link shows the files that'd be installed for package smartmontools. the interesting part are the lines22:41
debdog/usr/sbin/smartctl22:41
debdog/usr/sbin/smartd22:41
shnapsI should clarify - netinstall iso is running. But after I choosed language and keyboard type, I got error that this is wrong cd and etc22:41
fsmithredshnaps, so that's the short answer to your question of why it won't find the cdrom22:41
fsmithredmultibootusb put it someplace else22:42
debdogif that package is installed you can do "man smartd" and "man smartctl" for further info22:42
debdogsystem32: ^22:42
shnapsWhat do you mean?22:42
shnapsIt been loaded with grub22:42
fsmithredlook at the directory structure on the usb22:42
debdogsystem32: plus it tells you, these commands must be run as root22:42
system32ok. thanks. also , is there a bootable iso that checks drives ? and supports ext4 fs ?22:43
fsmithredshnaps, let's go to private22:43
shnapsfsmithred, sure22:43
debdogsystem32: i am pretty sure™ http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/ comes with all tool required22:46
debdog*tools22:46
system32ok. thanks22:47
heavenhi guys23:56

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