freenode/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-01-28

Xenguydebdog: That one's a keeper00:57
nextimeo/07:45
golinuxnextime: Hello, hello!!07:56
golinuxYou have been missed07:57
Venkerhi people15:16
KatolaZhi Venker15:30
DocScrutinizer05https://www.linuxjournal.com/sites/default/files/styles/max_650x650/public/u%5Buid%5D/molecules.png16:01
_stephen_Anyone have any tips on how to get debmirror to retry?  I've currently stuck it in a while loop so that it will relaunch after it gives up, but I was hoping for something less hackish.16:32
shnapsGoing to install i3. Which dependencies do I need? Failed to look for them in packages17:50
Leanderthat's one of the points of using a package manager, you don't have to worry about dependencies18:11
fsmithredand the corollary to Leander's answer is, "All of them."18:16
KatolaZshnaps: apt-get install i318:17
Leanderand their own dependencies, recursively, but the ones you already have18:17
KatolaZthat will do18:17
shnapsOkay, seems like got them18:19
shnapsI was just worried that something called different18:19
poeinklumI'm having pulseaudio issues20:34
poeinklumWould someone be able to give me a bit of advice?20:34
poeinklumHere's the full description: https://superuser.com/q/1399349/12279820:35
gnarfacei can't, and i think everyone else is probably asleep right now, but there is always #pulseaudio20:38
debdogeurope is awake20:38
gnarfaceoh, they're awake they're just all still getting drunk20:38
debdoghehe20:39
debdogno, just not using PA20:39
debdogI was just about to say the same. either ask #pulseaudio or just get rid of it20:39
jonadabpulseaudio really should be excised from devuan.20:50
* golinux agrees20:51
golinuxTry apulse.  A How-To is in the works20:51
poeinklumjonadab: I know nothing about the audio subsystem, except that it's a bit messy and there's pulse and alsa. So - maybe you're right; however - that doesn't help me right now...20:56
gnarfacepoeinklum: did you verify that alsa is working without pulseaudio?  if you stop pulseaudio completely, alsa should work fine still independently of it.  if not, something is wrong with alsa.20:56
gnarface(and pulseaudio does require alsa to be working)20:57
gnarfacethe important first step is to be only debugging one of them at a time20:57
poeinklumgnarface: I have not. But the only volume control I know of (and I know almost nothing) is pavucontrol, which is in the start menu.20:59
poeinklumgnarface: How do I verify that? pgrep alsa gives no results, nor lsmod | grep alpsa21:00
poeinklumgrep alsa I mean21:00
debdoglsmod | grep snd21:01
poeinklumSomething interesting I'm finding in syslog is that more and more of the following are piling up:21:03
poeinklumSomething interesting I'm finding in syslog is that more and more of the following are piling up:21:03
poeinklumJan 28 22:03:16 bakunin pulseaudio[22313]: [pulseaudio] cli-command.c: stat('/usr/share/pulseaudio/default.pa'): No such file or directory21:03
poeinklumJan 28 22:03:16 bakunin pulseaudio[22313]: [pulseaudio] main.c: Failed to initialize daemon.21:03
poeinklumJan 28 22:03:16 bakunin pulseaudio[22310]: [pulseaudio] main.c: Daemon startup failed.21:03
poeinklumdebdog: See the link again: https://superuser.com/q/1399349/12279821:05
debdogit could be that PA does not start up because alsa is not loaded.21:05
debdogbut IDK exactly how PA works and what its error output means21:06
debdogso verifying that alsa is ok would be a first step, as gnarface already mentioned21:06
debdogif you run that script http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh let it paste its output and give us the link we can have a look at it21:07
debdogthe script is available in package alsa-utils, too. /usr/share/man/man1/alsa-info.sh.1.gz21:09
poeinklumdebdog: http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=f7b93920fefa5f03fe88766769604a78d8134b7221:10
debdogon a quick glance it looks fine.21:11
debdogtry aplay $some_file.wav21:12
debdogif you don't have such a file at hand:  http://beggabaur.rocks/daten/stihl_ms1.wav21:12
debdogaccording to that script it seems amixer has issues with PA, too. "XDG_RUNTIME_DIR (/run/user/1000) is not owned by us (uid 0), but by uid 1000! (This could e g happen if you try to connect to a non-root PulseAudio as a root user, over the native protocol. Don't do that.)"21:16
debdogso I definitely would go to #pulseaudio, poeinklum21:17
gnarfacepoeinklum: (the alsa equivalent of pavucontrol is just called "alsamixer" but there's no alsa userspace daemon like pulseaudio; alsa is actually a kernel component)21:27
gnarfacepoeinklum: (and you can use speaker-test to test sound without having to generate your own wav files)21:32
shnaps_Hey, how do you put package in devuan repo? What should be done?22:47
izh_shnaps_: most of the debian packages end-up in devuan, so put it in debian repo and wait?22:50
shnapsHm, I guess it is not there yet22:54
fsmithredwhat are you looking for?22:55
shnapsJust been looking for i3-gapps22:55
shnapsgaps*22:55
shnapsAnd became curious22:56
gnarfacehttps://github.com/Airblader/i3/wiki/Compiling-&-Installing22:57
gnarfacethis page implies you'll have to build it22:57
gnarfacebut lists the dependencies for debian stretch which should be the same as for devuan ascii22:57
gnarfacemy advice is to first install "checkinstall" then substitute the final "sudo make install" command with "sudo checkinstall make install"22:58
shnapsYeah, they are all there. Already tried to install them22:58
fsmithredif you just installed i3, you probably got all the parts that are in the repo. It's a metapackage that pulls in the other parts.22:58
gnarfacefsmithred: the github thing i linked to appears to be a fork of i3wm called "i3-gaps" that's not in the repo23:00
fsmithredoh23:00
gnarfacei can't say whether the existing i3wm dependencies would be the same or not23:00
shnapsDependencies are fine. And basically it is same i3wm just with gaps between windows23:01
gnarfaceshnaps: we have regular i3wm, but it looks like i3-gaps isn't in debian or any of it's derivatives yet23:01
fsmithredshnaps, to answer your original question, you would make an account at git.devuan.org, clone the debian repo for the package, start working on it and let people know. Maybe, eventually, it could possibly make it into the repo. Meanwhile, you can use the packages you build.23:01
shnapsfsmithred, thanks!23:02
gnarfaceyea this page looks pretty well organized.  i think it will probably build without issue.23:02
shnapsgnarface, yeah, they have it only arch/manjaro community repos23:03
izh_fsmithred: are there any rules for case like: I want a program X that is neither  in debian nor in devuan  and it has nothing to do with systemd..23:06
fsmithredI don't know that there are ANY rules, but yeah, it's possible.23:06
izh_from infrastructure point of view it is better to send people to submit it to debian or?23:06
fsmithredcase in point: refracta tools23:07
fsmithredand I think maybe some of Lydia_K's packages might be in repo23:07
fsmithredprobably depends on the case whether to try to get it into debian or devuan23:07
gnarfaceizh_: in a practical sense, most the time you're going to have to build it yourself and put it in a private repo until you can get someone else to pick it up, unless there is a huge demand already23:08
gnarfaceizh_: but if you've done that part well already, it will be a lot easier to get someone to sponsor it in debian23:09
jonadabpoeinklum: The important thing to know about pulseaudio is that it's poetteringed.23:10
gnarfaceizh_: (getting it accepted to devuan is more likely to run into staffing limitations)23:10
jonadabLike, literally, Poettering wrote it.23:10
izh_another point, who has the upload rights in devuan? in debian we have DD-s23:10
jonadabIf you install it, you're lucky if sound ever works on your computer again.23:10
fsmithredI guess devuan developers would be DDs also23:11
shnapsjonadab, what do you suggest to use instead of it then?23:11
poeinklumjonadab: Oh no...23:11
gnarfaceizh_: you're probably looking for this: https://devuan.org/os/team/23:12
fsmithreda few people have upload rights. There's no formal process for getting that.23:12
fsmithredThe way stuff happens around here is if someone wants something, they do it, and if it looks useful it can be adopted in devuan.23:12
poeinklumdebdog: I can aplay $some_file.wav , it plays fine. But - I will go to pulseaudio as you suggest. On this network, right?23:13
gnarfacepoeinklum: (yes, here on freenode)23:13
debdogyes23:13
gnarfacepoeinklum: if alsa works without pulseaudio that's pretty much the smoking gun23:14
debdoghehe BAM!23:14
gnarfaceshnaps: most people who have thrown pulseaudio overboard don't replace it with anything.  you can do just fine without it.23:14
gnarfaceshnaps: the only thing currently-maintained that's anything like it is jackd23:15
gnarfaceshnaps: but the vast bulk of perceived need for pulseaudio features are due to local alsa misconfigurations or just poorly-chosen defaults23:15
sixwheeledbeastjackd was a PITA last time I had to use it. Can't say I have had any issues with PA23:16
gnarfaceshnaps: and the remaining features, for the most part can arguably be counted as annoyances23:16
fsmithredjack can be temperamental23:17
poeinklum_gnarface: Sorry about that.23:17
gnarfaceeyalroz: i just said that yes, #pulseaudio here on freenode, and if alsa works that's pretty much your "smoking gun" right there23:20
shnapsgnarface, so, basically, we don't have anything, right?23:20
gnarfaceshnaps: the only thing pulseaudio does for you is store per-program soft-volume controls23:21
gnarfaceshnaps: you literally don't *need* it23:21
gnarfaceif you know how to balance your volumes23:22
gnarfacesome people consider that more trouble than it's worth23:22
gnarfacesome people prefer it23:22
debdog /me thinks jackd is very good in a professional audio setup.23:23
gnarfaceshnaps: the thing about alsa not being able to play two sounds at once is FUD23:23
fsmithredis it possible to control their volumes separately?23:23
gnarfaceshnaps: and the thing about it not being able to send audio over the network is true, but you can do that by hand with netcat23:24
fsmithredoh23:24
debdogI think the idea behind PA is not bad. the implementation however sucks23:24
fsmithredI think I want to try that23:24
gnarfacefsmithred: you could use softvol with alsa if you really need it.  but if your amp has a physical volume control, you absolutely do not need it.23:24
fsmithredoh right23:25
shnapsWell, it is time to think about it23:25
gnarfaceshnaps: what most people forget is that most programs have built-in volume controls of their own, so using alsa just set master output to 100% then adjust the in-program volumes as necessary (you'll quickly find out it's not very necessary)23:27
debdogyah, works fine here, except for browsers23:28
gnarfaceshnaps: what pulseaudio does for people that they really get addicted to is it puts some softvol controls as a middle-man between alsa and the programs, centralizing per-program volume adjustments into one interface.   what the rest of us hate about it is that adds latency and degrades audio quality23:28
shnapsAnd what we supposed to do if we don't have physical buttons and don't want to use terminal to change volume?23:29
gnarfacealsamixergui23:29
gnarfacethere's a gtk version23:29
gnarfaceor if you're using kde, kde has something of it's own built-in23:30
shnapsSo, basically all that we need is alsa-base + alsamixergui?23:30
debdogand alsa-utils23:31
eyalrozgnarface: But a smoking gun for what?23:31
gnarfaceshnaps: you might want alsa-oss for reverse-compatibility with really old games too23:31
eyalrozgnarface: Also - doesn't pulseaudio also store the settings of which audio device to use for which app?23:32
gnarfaceshnaps: but yea, basically.  in fact, most window managers include some rudimentary volume slider that is a front-end for the master alsamixer slider, but alsamixer/alsamixergui will give you the most control because they're generated based on your driver's knowledge of your soundcard's features23:32
debdogand optionally alsaequal if you need an equaliser https://github.com/raedwulf/alsaequal23:32
gnarfaceeyalroz: by "smoking gun" what i meant was that's conclusive evidence this is pulseaudio's fault23:32
shnapsOh, cool, thanks! It is good to know23:33
gnarfaceeyalroz: and yea, pulseaudio might help make things easier you if you have more than one audio device too.  honestly i don't use it enough to think of that stuff23:33
shnapsI'm going to do new devuan install(trying to get it minimalistic/rice, I'll put in the list of apps to install)23:34
eyalrozgnarface: I assumed it was its fault all along, I'm just ranting here about how the distribution doesn't "take care" of me here, and PA ends up looking for a file that's missing...23:34
gnarfaceeyalroz: yea i dunno wtf is up with that, sorry.23:35
eyalrozgnarface: I have USB microphone, so it comes in handy. Also, the Gnome GUI for alsamixer isn't installed by default with Cinnamon, so I didn't realize it existed23:35
gnarfaceeyalroz: if you just create an empty file there, or try to reinstall the package, does it work?23:35
eyalrozgnarface: So, that makes it do the following:23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] module-equalizer-sink.c: module-equalizer-sink is currently unsupported, and can sometimes cause PulseAudio crashes, increased latency or audible artifacts.23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] module-equalizer-sink.c: If you're facing audio problems, try unloading this module as a potential workaround.23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] module-equalizer-sink.c: Master sink not found23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] module.c: Failed to load module "module-equalizer-sink" (argument: ""): initialization failed.23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] main.c: Module load failed.23:36
gnarfaceeyalroz: a permissions issue might cause difference in user vs root access to the audio hardware compared to debian, but there shouldn't be missing files unless they're missing from debian too23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14043]: [pulseaudio] main.c: Failed to initialize daemon.23:36
eyalrozJan 29 00:36:21 bakunin pulseaudio[14040]: [pulseaudio] main.c: Daemon startup failed.23:36
gnarfaceuh, use paste.debian.net so you don't trigger the flood protection bots23:37
eyalrozSure, sorry.23:37
gnarfacethe error suggests to just unload that module23:37
gnarfacewhat happens if you do?23:37
gnarfacehmmm23:38
gnarfaceeyalroz: your regular non-root user, it's in the audio group, right?23:38
gnarfacemaybe this is just a really misleading error23:39
eyalrozgnarface: Why, yes it is, how nice!23:39
gnarfacehttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:PulseAudio23:40
gnarfacehmm, seen on arch linux too23:40
fsmithredyes23:40
fsmithredoops - that was misplaced23:40
gnarfacepeople disagreeing about the cause23:40
shnapsAlso, btw, if you guys have list of apps what you should install or post-install script, it would be cool if you share with me. Thanks!23:42
gnarfaceeyalroz: question, is this the same bug as you're seeing? rather, does this suggested change to the package fix it, if even temporarily? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=91873723:44
gnarfaceshnaps: you looking for anything specific?23:46
shnapsgnarface, nope, just list/script which I can look through and adopt for my needs23:47
gnarfaceeyalroz: i gotta imagine they know about this in #pulseaudio already and can tell you an easy fix or workaround.23:47
shnapsMaybe post it in github(noone gonna see it, because of private reps)23:47
gnarfaceshnaps: do you know about this? https://popcon.debian.org/23:48
shnapsgnarface, nope23:49
gnarfaceshnaps: painfully detailed reports about package popularity, going back for years23:49
gnarfaceshnaps: the only real advice i can give you in general is to pick the "standard system utilities" selection from tasksel at the end of the install process23:50
Jjp137there is a Devuan version too btw: https://popcon.devuan.org/23:50
shnapsgnarface, not sure if I'm ready for such reports, huh23:50
Jjp137although yea the Debian one has way more data23:50
gnarfaceoh cool, thanks Jjp13723:50
gnarfacedidn't know devuan had one up already23:50
shnapsgnarface, tasksel not working for me for some reason. netinstall just skips its window and selecting repos mirrors window too23:50
gnarfaceshnaps: hmmm. did you try again in expert mode?23:51
gnarfacei don't think you should have to but it's been so long since i've done an install NOT in expert mode i can't be sure...23:51
shnapsgnarface, expert mode, graphical mode, graphical expert, etc. Saved logs, looked through them - nothing there. Just "completed correctly but decided not to procide" or something like that error23:52
gnarfacewtf23:52
gnarfacewell that's not right23:52
shnapsYeah23:52
shnapsI tried multiple times just to check it. No luck23:53
shnapsWindow getting showed just for a moment and then nothing23:53
gnarfaceoh hmmm23:54
shnapsFor this 2 options: configuring package manager, install packages23:54
shnapsAnd I checked connection tho, all fine23:54
gnarfacechances of it being a stuck enter-key?23:55
gnarfaceor mouse button?23:55
shnaps023:55
shnapsOther options works23:55
gnarfacehmm, i wonder if it's a problem with the mirror.  do you see what mirror it uses?23:55
shnapsI reinstalled base system like 4 times because of this23:56
gnarfacewell, there's no choices in there you can't change after install23:56
gnarfaceso it's not a show stopper23:56
gnarfacebut it's definitely a mystery23:56
shnapsAfter I rebooted to system after install and took a look at mirrors23:56
shnapsGot only cdrom[...] main23:56
fsmithreddid you check the sha256sum on the downloaded iso file?23:57
shnapsNope23:57
gnarfaceyea, i'd really do that.  but it's not like you can't correct the mirrors by hand either.23:57
shnapsgnarface, yeah I did it after install23:57
eyalrozgnarface: It seems the "solution" was to remove ~/.config/default.pa ; that made the PA daemon come back up, and pavucontrol works.23:58
gnarfaceeyalroz: aah! nice.  was that a file left over from a different install?23:58
gnarfaceeyalroz: glad that mystery has been solved anyway23:58
eyalrozgnarface: Hmmm.... no, I don't think so23:59

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