freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2019-02-17

DocScrutinizer05>>hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia facilius !!!!!!! !<<00:31
DocScrutinizer05= owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu!!!!!!!00:32
DocScrutinizer05one ! less:00:33
DocScrutinizer05owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu!!!!!!  =  A person who does not know what he wants to do to a person who does not know what he does to someone who does not know what he wants to do.00:33
DocScrutinizer05really WTF00:33
watchcatwtf? i thought this was devuan support.00:35
golinuxIt's supposed to be.00:36
aitorA million hamsters are spinning their wheels right now00:53
g4570naitor: hi00:54
aitorhi00:54
aitorwhere are you from?00:54
aitorargentina00:55
g4570nyes, come to #devuan-mx 😛00:55
aitorsave...00:55
aitorI'm there00:57
g4570n👍00:57
clotharthefrankHello,  trying to migrate from Ubuntu Trusty to Devuan ascii.  Issue I have is system is not recognizing the proper max resolution of my screen.  My monitor is a "HP Pavilion w1707 Monitor".  When I boot using Ubuntu, the monitor is correctly identified and properly set.  When I boot using Devuan, the boot process does not recognize the monitor correctly and is coming up at 1280x1024 resolution instead of the expected 1440x901:15
clotharthefrankI've tried substituting the display.xml file from Ubuntu for the one on Devuan, but it seems like Devuan is re-creating that file at every boot.01:16
clotharthefrankAlso, trying to use the cvt and xrandr commands to customise the Display settings tool.  When I do those, the correct resolution is shown in the drop-down choices, when I choose it, the correct "sample" is displayed, but when I click on apply, it all reverts back to the "default" 1280x1024.01:16
clotharthefrankThere is somewhere that I believe I can set a "VGA" parameter with a number to be the value for the proper display, but I can't seem to locate where that is.01:16
clotharthefrankCan anyone help me?  P.S.  "inxi" did not show me anything that would allow me to search or tweak files where I can add the proper monitor definition properties.01:16
DocScrutinizer05watchcat: yeah, that's what I thought as well01:27
DocScrutinizer05but actually, it's not support, it's a discussion channel. Says /topic01:28
fsmithredclotharthefrank, try /etc/default/grub01:30
fsmithredgrub_gfxmode or grub_gfxpayload01:31
golinuxclotharthefrank: I don't know that anyone has tried that.  I find it hard to believe that it would work.01:36
golinuxLikely would create a Frankendevuan.   The Debian wiki is quite clear about not mixing repositories: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/01:39
fsmithredclotharthefrank, did you enable non-free repos? There might be firmware you need.01:40
fsmithredgolinux, I don't think he's mixing anything. Sounds like a dual-boot setup.01:41
golinux<clotharthefrank> Hello,  trying to migrate from Ubuntu Trusty to Devuan ascii.01:42
fsmithredread more01:43
golinuxLOL!  "Migrate" might not have been the best word01:44
fsmithredlike a bird going from one continent to another01:45
MinceRupgrade01:45
golinux"dual boot" would have been helpful01:47
fsmithredyou're just hypersensitive about mixing repos01:47
golinuxWell, that too.  There is a steam of unlimted stupidity on help channels01:49
golinuxstream01:49
golinuxIt is very sensitizing01:50
golinuxI'm about ready to do diffs on CPCinnabar.01:50
golinuxThen will transfer to beowulf and see what explodes.01:50
bahumbedbugHmm.. re topic and nickserv, channel is not +r01:54
MinceRyeah, we used to quiet unidentified, unvoiced people because of spambots01:58
golinux!ot . . . I like it!!02:00
MinceRi don't know what was there, it was cut off already02:03
golinuxI just looked in the scrollback02:07
golinuxI would paste here but the bot would slam me02:08
DocScrutinizer05MinceR: nothing cut off02:21
clotharthefrankThank you fsmithred, I have updated my file and will advise when I reboot.02:44
fsmithredyou ran update-grub after editing?02:45
clotharthefrankHi golinux, the format of the xml in the display.xml appears to be identical, with the exception of the resolution values which I was assigning to the appropriate parameter, so I don't think there is any fear of a Frankendevuan.02:50
clotharthefrankHi fsmithred, I did enable non-free repos.  It had no impact.02:51
fsmithredlol, you might need to install something from the non-free02:51
fsmithredwhat graphics do you have?02:51
fsmithredamd, nvidia or intel?02:52
fsmithredmaybe you need firmware-linux-nonfree or firmware-amd-graphics02:52
clotharthefrank... and yes, it is a quad-boot setup: Primary ubuntu, Backup server ubuntu, Experimental distro (this case Devuan, my hopeful future) and Legacy Ubuntu.02:52
clotharthefrankHi MinceR,  I have no intention to pursue an upgrade; especially to Ubuntu 19.04 .  I hate the concept of systemd with a passion, and find boot takes about twice as long, and shutdown takes about 10 times as long.  No interest in staying with Ubuntu because of that very bad judgement call, which can only be driven by a motivation to minimize migration to another distro or to minimize cloning of ubuntu by other distros.  My o02:57
fsmithredI think he meant that going from ubuntu to devuan IS and upgrade03:00
fsmithredand/an03:00
clotharthefrankhi fsmithred, in Primary Ubuntu at this time.  Will do update-grub once I have Devuan live.03:01
fsmithredok03:01
fsmithredoh, so you need something in the ubuntu menu for devuan resolution?03:02
clotharthefrankFrom inxi:   Graphics:  Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RS780D [Radeon HD 3300] driver: radeon v: kernel  Display: server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: ati,radeon unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1440x900~60Hz  OpenGL: renderer: AMD RS780 (DRM 2.43.0 / 4.4.0-142-generic LLVM 6.0.0) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.0.503:04
fsmithredso maybe you need firmware-amd-graphics03:04
fsmithredbut you can test the grub thing easily03:04
fsmithredreboot, select the devuan entry, press e to edit, add this before the linux line...03:05
fsmithredset gfxpayload=1440x90003:05
fsmithredthen ctrl-x to boot03:06
fsmithredif that doesn't work, install the firmware package03:06
Glatshi. it is possible to create a symlink folder but keeping the content?03:09
Glatsfor example:03:09
clotharthefrankhi fsmithred,  need to reboot to switch to Devuan partition.  Will drop out of this conversation for a few moment and will return with update.  Thank you very much for the hints.  Much appreciated!  TTFN!03:10
Glatsi want to put ln -s /home/user/foo  /home/user/bar/foo03:10
Glatsbut keeping the content of /home/user/bar/foo03:10
fsmithredif it already exists, you can't make the symlink03:10
Glatsok03:11
Glatsbut theres another way?03:11
gnarfaceyea, move the directory first, then make the symlink03:11
Glatsbut i want to keep the contento of bar/foo03:11
fsmithredmaybe some kind of esoteric mount options03:12
Glatsyeah03:12
Glatshahah03:12
gnarfaceare you trying to merge the contents of two directories Glats?03:12
Glatsyeah03:12
gnarfacewhy not just copy the contents from one to the other first?03:12
Glatsbec. i will to do that every time new files appears03:13
gnarfaceno, you just have to do it once, then you can make the symlink03:13
gnarfacesymlinks can't have contents of their own.  think of them as desktop shortcuts (that's not technically accurate but it's the closest analogy i can draw for you from windows)03:13
Glatsso the content has to be in one place03:14
gnarfacestrictly speaking, no, but for the purposes of this discussion, it's practically yes03:15
gnarfaceso go with yes for now03:15
fsmithredI like to think of it as a wormhole03:16
Glatsyeah. i understand03:16
gnarfaceif its03:16
gnarfaceof ot03:16
gnarface*03:16
gnarfaceif it's a LOT of files and you're afraid of the work of manually merging the directories because you have to deal with conflicting versions in both directories, check into the command-line tool "rsync"03:17
gnarfacethere is stuff to dynamically merge mount points on the fly but you really don't want to mess with doing that for something like this.  it would be a massive overcomplication of the task03:17
gnarface(and also i can't tell you how from memory anyway)03:18
gnarfaceas a long-term solution, the symlink is much easier to manage.  you just have to deal with de-duplication separately03:20
gnarfacebut again, that's only once03:20
gnarfaceonce the symlink is in place, there will actually only be one directory03:21
gnarfaceit doesn't dynamically merge two directories, it just literally redirects to one of them03:21
gnarfaceit's easier to make sense of visually in a terminal if you go into your ~/.bashrc and uncomment these two lines:03:23
gnarface    eval "`dircolors -b`"03:23
gnarface    alias ls='ls --color=auto -F'03:23
gnarface(you might have to add -F, i forget if i did that myself or not)03:23
gnarface(actually i added -N too, but i think newer users won't like that option)03:24
MinceR17 030049 < fsmithred> I think he meant that going from ubuntu to devuan IS and upgrade03:45
MinceRthis.03:46
clotharthefrankHello, my issues are resolved.  Since I did both, modify the /etc/default/grub file, and add the firmware-linux-nonfree package, which pulled in the firmware-amd-graphics package, I am not sure which was the fix.  I ran the grub-mkconfig after both of those, so they could have both contributed to a better boot setup.04:46
clotharthefrankBecause that issue is resolved, and documented (ha! ha!), I am moving away from Ubuntu.  With my key tools being Firefox and Thunderbird, I have no concerns about migration.  All else is contained.  Thank you, fsmithred!  You really know your stuff.04:50
clotharthefrankAs for future, focus will be threefold: 1) leverage background in CAD/CAM which is heavily UNIX-based, 2) convert IT experience into user-end desktop-automation tools, and my dream 3) write a SciFi book.04:56
xrogaandesktop automation tools?04:57
clotharthefrankHi xrogaan, self-sorting todo list, project risk rating/assessment tool, various tools to automate distro configuration/documentation/backup, iptables firewall installation/configuration/customization, including country exclusion lists.05:01
xrogaanyou may want taskwarrior then05:02
xrogaan> https://taskwarrior.org/05:02
clotharthefrankThank you, xrogaan!  I guess I can take the todo list project off my list. :-)05:06
xrogaanI don't know why you want to automate the configuration though, has it's already been taken care of by the distro itself.05:07
xrogaanfor backup: https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery05:08
xrogaanyou have something like 20 years or so of people wanting backup and writing tools for it :P05:08
xrogaanas for iptables, well, depends on what you actually want and need.05:09
xrogaanthis is a desktop user tool: http://www.shorewall.net/05:10
clotharthefrankFor the backup tool, is there a place to drop my tool (script) for comment?05:11
xrogaangist.github.com or dpaste.org or paste.debian.net05:12
clotharthefrankI've looked at a bunch of the firewall tools and didn't like the way they all force a non-system desktop user to do system-level type analysis and configuration, rather than use "end-user" "wants specification" for the configuration.  I'm only 20% complete on that one.05:14
xrogaanbecause filtering the network isn't the job of the user.05:15
xrogaaniptables is system wide, not user specific.05:15
xrogaanKind of. You can restrict a group/user from accessing the internet.05:16
xrogaanIf you are the sole user, maybe it's a problem for you. Most linux system have several users with different needs.05:18
golinuxiptables is on the way out.  Moving to "legacy" status05:20
clotharthefrankI've worked as sysadmin in a multinational, doing server support for boxes on multiple continents.  I want to translate that to single-user desktop boxes, make them highly functional and impenetrable, by adapting all the tools and capabilities that are already out there, but packaging them in a way that the non-expert can confidently push the button and get the desired result. :-)05:20
golinuxhttps://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190215.232536.366404aa.en.html05:21
xrogaanclotharthefrank: so, snort?05:21
xrogaanwtf is nftables?05:22
clotharthefrankas for iptables, nftables is still not "productionized" nor widely distributed.05:22
xrogaansoon to change, niark niark.05:23
clotharthefranksnort is intended for site/server admins, not an non-systems end-user.  I am a systems guy with a user attitude.  There are too many tools rolled out without the necessary simplication for, let's say, an artist, a nurse, a store manage, an accountant, who don't want to deal with systems complications or learn the necesary precise terminology to make sure they don't mis-step!05:24
xrogaanIIRC snort can be used to automatically put on filters. But I may remember wrong.05:26
clotharthefrankIn that vein, Ubuntu's approach to install is almost perfect, but there is still tool much of the details demanded of users, that could be hidden by smart logic.05:26
clotharthefrankGetting snort to the point that it can automate demands a level of system-specific knowledge that is too much for the layman.05:27
xrogaangolinux: I now understand why the tuxfamily people are usually frisky when it comes to upgrading their debian box. Things that don't need to change breaks everything because they changed.05:28
clotharthefrankUpgrading boxes is always a high-risk venture, unless you've done the research to certify that each intended/required package is updated to be functionally aware, if required, about behaviour changes in hardware.  That is why abstraction layers are so crucial between coding and hardware, to standardize what is being looked at, and help identify the template-breaking "new features"!05:32
clotharthefrankBTW, how do I register for an account on this site?05:34
xrogaanwhich site?05:34
clotharthefrankfreenode.net   I used a handle for the chat, but I am only a guest.  I would like to register.05:35
xrogaan/msg nickserv help register05:37
golinuxYeah, I noticed you were on webchat.  That must have been painful.05:38
xrogaanyou may want to use a proper irc client though.05:38
xrogaandepending on your DE, either hexchat or konversation.05:38
xrogaanor irssi if you love command line05:41
xrogaanalso, there is a third packet filtering mechanism being worked on: bpfilter!05:42
clotharthefrankOn bpfilter, the big corporate players have leveraged a lot on ipfilter, springboarding all their highly customized tools on that baseline technology.  nffilter, being the next-gen from the same ipfilter team, has integrated migration bath due to the builtin import compatibility mechanisms.  For that reason, bpfilter will likely fall to the wayside ... but you never know, if than can come up with that killer tech! :-)05:48
xrogaanoh I prefer /bin, it's shorter to write06:57
enychrrm07:04
enycWondering wtf I have done with devuan desktop to get such odd errors over time ;p07:05
enycerr07:05
enycNow, trying to use MATE menus to open a folder [which you expect to open 'caja' file browser], now opens VLC which goes mad doing silly things, instead!.07:06
enycMATE desktop on ASCII ....07:06
enychrrm, new 'thunderbird' needs to propagate into ascii ...07:20
golinuxAscii is stable.  Only new packages will be in security fixes or backports.07:27
golinuxenyc07:27
golinux^^^07:28
enycgolinux: or  -updates   ...07:55
enycgolinux: lots has come through into  stretch-updates  because of debian 9.8 release07:55
enycbut    1:60.5.1-1~deb9u1    hasn't propagated//been-released  into  ascii-*  yet seemingly07:56
enycthunderbird, that is07:57
watchcatsmall weirdness. icedove and lighning won't update. they listed as --upgradable, but apt upgrade does nothing. i have 'proposed' and 'backports' enabled, dunno if that's relevant. thes rest of today's upgrades went normally. it's late, i'll check it tomorrow.07:57
enycwatchcat: humm   is icedove still supported at all?07:58
enycwatchcat: i thought changed to thunderbird07:58
watchcatthat's just a left over pseudonym for thunderbird.07:58
enycaah transitional pakage07:59
enycwatchcat: dep: thunderbird (>= 1:60.5.1-1~deb9u1)07:59
enycyes, so icedove  is expecting the thunderbird 60.5. [..]07:59
enycwhich is whats' missing from ascii07:59
enychence, inability to update07:59
watchcatmkay, that splains it, ty :)07:59
enycwhich reminds me, to sort out my gnupg key renewal fun08:02
DocScrutinizer05gnarface: maybe you find that useful (re "alias ls=..."):  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/lstree15:25
DocScrutinizer05actually 100% my invention :-)15:26
DocScrutinizer05for the lazy folks:  in root shell:   wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/lstree -O /usr/local/bin/lstree && chmod +x /usr/local/bin/lstree15:32
DocScrutinizer05if some of you improves that stuff, e.g. adding --help etc, please share!15:34
DocScrutinizer05https://i.imgur.com/h6aZQWf.png15:39
DocScrutinizer05I love the symlinks getting shown15:41
DocScrutinizer05>><Glats> hi. it is possible to create a symlink folder but keeping the content?<< no symlink, maybe maount a unionfs or somesuch15:49
DocScrutinizer05or is it called overlayfs now?15:50
DocScrutinizer05frequently used to allow storing new files to a live system on a  read-only volume like DVD15:51
DocScrutinizer05Glats: ^^^15:52
DocScrutinizer05man unionfs15:53
DocScrutinizer05>> unionfs overlays several directory into one single mount point.        It first tries to access the file on the top branch and if the file does not exist there, it continues on lower level branches.  If the user tries to modify a file on a lower level read-only branch        the file is copied to to a higher level read-write branch if the copy-on-write (cow)  mode was enabled.<<15:54
DocScrutinizer05Glats: please holler if you need more help with using unionfs-fuse dor "merging" two dirs into one. I guess it should be simpler to handle than symlinks plus rsync/whatever16:29
DocScrutinizer05fsmithred: what do the live images use in this context?16:41
fsmithredoverlayfs16:42
DocScrutinizer05HAH, I *knew* there was another name too16:42
fsmithredwas aufs in wheezy, unionfs in squeeze16:42
DocScrutinizer05ooh so they are somewhat equiv all three?16:43
fsmithredI think they all server more or less the same role, but I don't really know much about it16:43
fsmithredjust happened to be reading about it when you started talking about it16:44
DocScrutinizer05:-)16:44
DocScrutinizer05unionfs is fuse \o/16:44
DocScrutinizer05for the good or the bad16:44
DocScrutinizer05my manpages don'T give me any info about au and overlay16:45
DocScrutinizer05wikipedia to th rescue:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnionFS#Other_implementations16:51
DocScrutinizer05so scratch >>unionfs is fuse \o/<<, make that >>there's a fuse-unionfs too \o/<<16:53
GlatsDocScrutinizer05: perfect. sound nice. I will trey and i'll comment you18:54
xrogaanDocScrutinizer05: tree -fughDF20:04
GlatsDocScrutinizer05: i thought there is possible to do unions in linux like in plan9 DocScrutinizer05:20:50
Glatshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs#Union_directories_and_namespaces20:51
DocScrutinizer05Glats: that's unionfs-fuse20:53
DocScrutinizer05though unionfs does 'more' than what I read in plan9 description. Shjould also merge subdirs auiu20:54
DocScrutinizer05aiui*20:55
Glatsperfect20:59
rrqDocScrutinizer05: I missed the party, but "man mount' has a section about overlay.21:42
DocScrutinizer05rrq: yeah. I suggested man unionfs21:44
rrqyes, same thing (as I remember). If you want to go crazy, there's also mhddfs, but I'm not sure there's a package for it :)21:49
DocScrutinizer05my `man unionfs` is actually about unionfs-fuse21:56
DocScrutinizer05no messing around with low level system stuff like mount, fstab etc21:56
DocScrutinizer05seems more appropriate when the dirs to merge are actually user specific21:57
rrqyes; better for ad-hoc set up by non-root user22:07

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