freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-02-19

xxadversaryxxglad i found this01:34
xxadversaryxxhello all01:34
specingIs there a guide on installing devuan via debootstrap?02:03
specingCan the i686 netinstall also install amd64 devuan? If so, why would even be an amd64 netinstall when the i686 one is smaller and more general?02:34
specingthere even be* meh, why am I always missing letters and whole words..02:40
gnarfacespecing: debootstrap should work the same as debian.  just use the devuan repos instead.  i don't know if the debootstrap in debian has been actually patched to work for devuan yet though.03:07
gnarface(and the reason that there is a separate i386 and amd64 netinstall iso is because your primary stated assumption is wrong)03:08
xrogaanI used it successfully03:10
xrogaanwait no03:10
specingI only worry that I'll forget to apply some step that the installer does and be left with a half-broken system03:10
gnarfacexrogaan: debootstrap from debian?  i know it was broken at one point.  there was a patch, but i don't know how far it's propogated, if it even made it to debian stable or not03:10
specingso I'll do the proper install but then just copy the install to the existing ssd03:10
gnarfacexrogaan: i think it was a simple change though03:11
xrogaanI forgot how I built my chroot03:11
* Xenguy could never grok chroot for some reason...03:11
xrogaanprobably debootstrap03:11
fsmithredspecing, you can use a refracta iso to debootstrap devuan03:11
fsmithredthere are instructions in the home dir03:11
gnarfacespecing: usually what goes wrong for people is they forget to install the kernel and grub03:11
specingfsmithred: I can do the bootstrap from Gentoo as well03:11
specingfsmithred: but there is value in the installer itself03:12
fsmithredhave you tried it?03:12
specingfsmithred: no03:12
fsmithredI know we had to patch debootstrap to get it to work with devuan. I don't know what gentoo has.03:12
xrogaandebootstrap 1.0.89-devuan2.103:12
xrogaanthe version has devuan in it03:12
fsmithredI usually forget to set a root password03:13
specingGentoo has debootstrap-1.0.114 from debian03:13
fsmithredxrogaan, were you listing a package from gentoo or devuan?03:14
xrogaanthe one I have on this machine, so devuan03:14
xrogaanfrom ascii03:14
furrywolfhow's the current usability of testing?03:20
fsmithredpretty usable from what I can see03:21
fsmithredupgrade from ascii last week went smoothly03:22
furrywolfI'm thinking of switching to my other laptop as my main box, which has ascii on it, but I'd like newer versions of a number of things...03:23
fsmithredif any of those things are packages we change, check to see if they're done03:23
furrywolfapplications, not system stuff.  freecad, etc.03:24
fsmithredthe policykit stuff is working, but you don't use any of that, do you?03:24
furrywolfit got installed, but I don't know if or how I use it.  heh.03:24
furrywolfmaybe I should just run frankendevuan....03:24
fsmithredyou're on icewm?03:25
fsmithredwith or without display manager?03:25
furrywolficewm, don't remember what display manager.03:26
furrywolfit's not the default one, because the default one didnt have the ability to select sessions properly, which was fucking idiotic.03:26
* furrywolf turns it on and checks03:27
fsmithredF1 in slim toggles through the list03:27
fsmithredmost of them have a place to click for a list03:28
furrywolfusing lightdm now03:29
fsmithredso yeah, you're probably using policykit and consolekit.03:30
furrywolfI don't remember what the original dm was (this is a fairly old install)...  slim doesn't sound familiar.  whatever it was wouldn't remember the last choice, and other issues.03:30
furrywolfI gave up on making it useful and replaced it.03:30
fsmithredme too03:31
furrywolfis there a way to pull specific packages from testing by specifying the release name instead of the package version?03:32
furrywolfi.e. tell it to install freecad from testing, and update it whenever testing has a new version, not hold it at the version you specify?03:32
fsmithredyeah, I think that would work, but it might break stuff03:32
fsmithredbetter to backport it03:32
furrywolfI've been frankening debian for a while, not too much breaks if you do that...  but I've always done it by installing foo=1.2.3, which means it won't automatically upgrade it.03:33
fsmithredyou can mix testing and unstable, but mixing stable and testing is risky03:33
fsmithredyeah, you can get away with it for some stuff03:34
fsmithredsometimes only for a short time03:34
fsmithredtry backporting it. Some things build easily.03:35
furrywolfso, accepting that risk, is there a way to specify "foo from testing" rather than "foo version 1.2.3"?03:35
fsmithredapt-get -t beowulf install foo03:35
fsmithredapt-cache policy foo03:36
fsmithredto see available versions03:36
furrywolfdebian really needs a button for "I built this from source", not a process...03:39
fsmithredmore likely it would be an obscure command03:40
furrywolfgrrr, more menu stupidity...  alsamixergui is in neither menu system.03:51
furrywolfrather than just removing systemd, can we entirely un-freedesktop debian?  :P03:51
furrywolfI want an OS without a single thing they've touched.03:51
* furrywolf sits on golinux so she stops bouncing around03:54
specingIf I were to document how to install on btrfs, should I make a new thread or hijack this one ?04:02
DocScrutinizer05furrywolf: great, it helped :-)04:05
DocScrutinizer05furrywolf: un-FD great idea04:06
DocScrutinizer05indeed it seems freedesktop is the root of all evil04:07
specingit offers me two kernel images: linux-image-4.9.0-6-amd64 and linux-image-amd6404:12
specingwhich should I pick?04:12
specingSomething tells me the second one is just an alias for the first one04:12
furrywolfdamnit, after a reboot my volume control keys no longer work04:19
furrywolfand I don't remember what I did like six months ago to make them work04:19
furrywolfah.  because I accidentally dragged in pulse while installing something.  and now my audio has crackles and my keys don't work.  and then I removed pulse, and now my audio sounds right and my keys work again.04:28
DocScrutinizer05wow, that easy04:31
furrywolfhow can pulse suck so badly, and distros include it?04:32
furrywolfoh, completely unrelated, but I made glib1.2, gtk1.2, and xmms compile on current gcc.  should we package those?  :)04:34
furrywolfglib was the only real task, as it used macros that don't work past gcc3.3....04:35
furrywolfalso needed to replace one of the configure files, as 64-bit targets didn't exist when they were written, and it couldn't id the system...04:37
Centurion_DanKatolaZ: Just had a report of a bare metal install of Devuan on TalosII with amd graphics!!! \o/05:12
furrywolfits Talos IV you really have to watch out for.05:15
* golinux is a trekkie05:16
furrywolfdo you have rubber ears?  :)05:17
golinuxActually I did have a pair many years ago05:18
golinuxWe're way OT05:18
furrywolfsomehow I can imagine you pointing out that emotions are irrelevant...  :P05:18
golinuxto #debianfork05:19
gnarfacespecing: yes, linux-image-amd64 just points to the current one.  if you install it then you'll get kernel updates automatically, otherwise you have to pick them up manually05:43
gnarface(by that i mean, you'll get kernel updates along with regular package updates)05:43
JollyRoger`Ahoy shipmates! Yarr harr, I be confirmin' Devuan Ceres ppc64le now be smoothly sailin' with a full desktop experience on the POWER9 Talos II, oo-arr! Splice the mainbrace!05:54
JollyRoger`A screenshot be comin' shortly!05:55
* furrywolf doesn't think it's talk like a pirate day...06:00
JollyRoger`For me, just about every day is talk like a pirate day :P.06:01
KatolaZCenturion_Dan: great news :)07:22
Centurion_DanAnd even firefox works  - that surporised us a bit ...07:39
tyilI have a VPS that I can boot into a rescue system, can I get a tarball of a base Devuan install to unpack into the VPS' harddrive to make it a bootable Devuan system (and if yes, where can I find this tarball)?08:08
gnarfacetyil: check into debootstrap08:11
tyilI know that tool from Debian, but how can I get it from Devuan from a random rescue system? I can't boot the VPS from a Devuan installer ISO08:12
gnarfacehow did you boot it from the rescue system?08:14
gnarfacecan you boot a live iso with it?08:14
gnarfaceyou could probably just copy the binaries08:15
gnarfacei don't think debootstrap has a lot of dependencies08:16
gnarfaceif you're that determined, you can in fact probably just unpack the deb files from the installer manually08:16
gnarfacebut if you can't boot the VPS with an arbitrary ISO, i have doubts you'll be able to make any snapshot tarball boot either08:17
tyilthere's an option to boot a rescue system, which gets me grml (which I haven't heard of before), and options to install Ubuntu, Debian or CentOS08:17
gnarfacewhich debian?08:17
tyil7 or 808:18
tyiloh, also a 908:18
gnarfaceall 3 of those should successfully upgrade to devuan after install08:18
gnarfaceso that's an option too08:18
gnarfacemaybe the easiest one08:18
tyilah, then that may be easier :p08:18
gnarfacedefinitely easier, probably slower08:19
tyilI was looking for a similar way as Gentoo, to just get a base system tarball, untar it into the root partition and set up a bootloader08:19
tyileh, I'm not in a particular hurry08:19
gnarfacei just don't know if such a tarball is laying around anywhere for devuan08:19
tyilI'm just looking to try out a non-systemd distro for my kubernetes minions08:19
tyilI don't know either, hence I asked :)08:20
gnarfaceof ot08:20
gnarface*if it'll08:21
gnarface... let you do a minimal install, then it shouldn't take much longer to install debian then upgrade to devuan08:21
gnarfacemost the packages are the same08:21
gnarfacethat worked for me on one VPS i was renting somewhere08:21
gnarfaceno guarantees though, VPSes aren't all the same08:22
furrymcgeeI dont know how to use a bootloader in a vps. you can try to scp, mount and debootstrap the iso image then chroot into the debootstrap directory. no reboot required for chroot and it will use same kernel.08:24
gnarfaceit depends on the type of VPS08:25
gnarfacesome of them don't even use a bootloader and will just ignore whatever you install08:26
gnarfacefor them, usually the kernel is actually the host's kernel version whatever you install too08:26
gnarfacebut if it's not too different of a kernel version usually that'll still work08:26
gnarfaceother VPS software will mimic a whole physical machine for the guest, boot sectors and all08:27
gnarfacefor that stuff, it might just come down to version compatibility and permission from the host system08:27
tyilgnarface: I'll try it out, thanks :)09:01
gnarfacegood luck09:01
gnarfacedo you know what type of VPS it even is?09:01
gnarfaceat some point, you're gonna want to know09:01
tyilgnarface: a vps with 1gb ram, 40gb hdd, 2 vCPU cores09:16
tyilor well, 40 gb ssd storage09:16
gnarfaceyea, but it might matter whether it's xen or vmware or whatever09:16
gnarfacethat one *does* mimic hardware, but also makes it possible for them to prevent you from screwing with the boot process09:18
tyileh, we'll see what happens09:18
gnarfaceit depends on how they set it up and how nice they are really09:18
tyilit's not the first time playing around with a VPS in unintended ways :p09:18
gnarfacefor science!09:19
tyilwhat good is a VPS if you can't have fun playing around with it after all09:19
Centurion_Dantyll you should be able to use a vagrant or cloud image for that too.09:28
tyilI don't like vagrant I think, I've never used it09:28
tyilit's going to be a minion for a kubernetes cluster, so I'd rather keep it rather simple and not add additional layers where it's unneeded09:29
tyilI'm trying to find an article that gives me a list of commands to run to convert debian 8/9 to devuan now09:29
Centurion_Danor build an image to your liking in a kvm guest and then tar it up and dump it.09:29
Centurion_Dan.. on the vps.09:30
tyilsounds like a lot of effort when I can just install Debian 8/9 and run some commands to fixed it09:30
tyilI'd have to compile kvm/qemu first on my laptop to get started with setting up a kvm guest here09:31
Centurion_Danfair enough then..09:33
gnarfacetyil: check the forum in /topic, i09:36
gnarfaceit's been well documented09:36
tyilgnarface: yeah, I found something by now, but I'll check the forums too, thanks!09:37
gnarfacetyil: and read the release notes!09:37
specing"The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found"18:05
KatolaZspecing: what are you trying to do?18:05
markizanoapt-get install apt-transport-https18:06
KatolaZyou need apt-transport https18:06
KatolaZspecing: note that does *not* support https18:06
specingKatolaZ: trying to install Devuan ASCII to a qemu VM18:06
markizanocomment out that https line first, and `apt-get update` to remove it from the package cache.18:06
KatolaZplease pick an HTTPS mirror from the mirror list18:06
specingKatolaZ: I'm using my reverse proxy accessed via http18:06
KatolaZspecing: then you know better than me18:07
specingand the reverse proxy goes out through https18:07
KatolaZI don't know what your reverse_proxy does18:07
specingKatolaZ: it just pretends to be a devuan mirror18:07
specingforwarding all requests to and caching results18:07
markizanoneed to have `apt-transport-https` installed before it can connect.18:08
specingGiven that this setup works for both Gentoo and Fedora, I must assume the problem is in devuan18:08
specingand this failure happens after it had already downloaded several megabytes18:08
KatolaZspecing: does your proxy cache everything?18:09
KatolaZor only the first requests?18:09
KatolaZspecing: note that devuan repos make a heavy use of redirects...18:10
KatolaZ(I guess I mentioned that already, but I don't remember)18:10
specingKatolaZ: when a request comes for a url, it checks if it has it in cache. If so, it checks if timestamps changed on the server and if not, uses local cache18:11
markizanospecing: use the http repos to install `apt-transport-https` first, and then use the https-proxy.18:11
markizanoor include that package when bootstrapping the OS with `debootstrap`18:11
specingmarkizano: this is a http repo18:11
specingmy proxy server is only available through http, not https18:11
markizanospecing: ok, so what happens after you install apt-transport-https ?18:11
KatolaZspecing: I guess you can't rely much on timestamps, due to the redirects18:12
KatolaZbut I might be wrong here18:12
specingmarkizano: testing18:12
specingtoo many to type out18:15
specingThe forums have TLS difficulties19:00
specingI think I know what might have caused the issues19:03
specingfor some reason the previous installation step was not finished19:04
specingThis is strange, installer complains of failing to download a file, yet I am tailing proxy logs and all requests get code 200 replies19:19
specingand when pressing "Retry", there is no new log entry made19:20
specingand alt+f4 says that apt-install or in-target is already running19:21
specinglooks like I'll need to make another VM19:22
specingor reformat inside the current one19:23
specingno, reformat did not help, the live cd is busted19:25
specingOk, figured it out22:00
specingneeded "proxy_redirect https://... /;" in nginx config22:00
specingdisregard this, I only made it a bit further before hitting the issue again22:02
specingYes, now it fails at select&install software, apparently22:08
golinuxspecing: Have you seen the documentation of how amprolla does it?22:09
specingwho/what is amprolla?22:10
golinuxAmprolla is how devuan sets up our repos22:10
specinggolinux: Secure Connection Failed22:13
golinuxYou might also find some hints here:
specingWhat is up with
golinuxFailed to what? d1g?22:13
specingit seems to be working now after doing what markizano suggested (installing apt-transport-https)22:14
golinuxd1g is working fine here.22:14
specinggolinux: An error occurred during a connection to SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG22:14
golinuxrrq: ^^^22:14
golinuxrrq does the backend admin for the forum22:15
golinuxWe do have some aggressive spam filters but don't know if that's related to your message.22:16
golinuxrrq should just be waking up so be patient.22:16
specingLooks like 1.5GB for disk will not be enough for a gui-less install22:31
KatolaZspecing: what medium are you using to install?22:33
KatolaZthe base system form netinst requires about 300MB22:33
KatolaZspecing: you get to about 1GB if you selected "Console Productivity"22:34
specingKatolaZ: $ dd if=/dev/zero of=devuan.img bs=1M count=150022:34
specingI selected console productivity22:34
specingWhy does console productivity need 1GB?22:35
KatolaZspecing: ehm, because it installs *a lot of stuff*?22:35
KatolaZif you want a minimal system to build upon, just skip tasksel22:36
specingtoo late for that :)22:36
specingor maybe in next VM22:36
KatolaZspecing: just have a look at the list of packages installed by Console Productivity22:36
specingI'm definetely going to ruin this one smashing it into btrfs22:37
specingKatolaZ: how?22:37
specingI'm a refugee from Gentoo, I have no idea about apt22:37
KatolaZapt-cache show console-productivity22:37
KatolaZconsole-productivity is a meta-package22:38
KatolaZit has "Recommends:" on a whole lot of other packages22:38
KatolaZincluding a lot of games, network stuff, editors, etc.22:39
specinghaha, no space left on device. RIP22:39
watchcatyou can turn off recommends, too.22:40
specingKatolaZ: Why aren't there more software groups? E.g. I see a lot of groups for various full blown desktop environments, but there is absolutely none for tiling22:40
KatolaZspecing: what do you need for tiling, if not just the tiling wm of your choice?22:40
MinceRmy guess is tiling wm-s came too late22:40
MinceRby then debian turned into gnome os :>22:41
KatolaZno MinceR22:41
specinggnome os haha22:41
KatolaZactually, there is little scope to have a metapackage to just include dwm and three more packages, IMHO22:41
KatolaZyou can just install them with apt-get22:41
KatolaZbut if there is a need for that, we can definitely think about it22:42
watchcatapt install xorg i3wm slim is pretty basic for a metapackage, i guess.22:42
* KatolaZ shrugs22:42
MinceRoh, also, i doubt there's any one tiling wm that's all that much more popular than the others22:42
MinceRand at the same time comes with a significant number of packages :>22:43
KatolaZif we go down that lane, we should provide three-deps meta-packages for i3, xmonad, dwm, etc...22:43
KatolaZyeah indeed22:43
specingat least you could offer these at tasksel stage, so people wouldn't have to chase down these packages22:43
KatolaZspecing: again, we should add something like 12 or 15 choices if we go down the route of tiling wms22:44
KatolaZand basically to provide three or four packages for each choice22:45
fsmithredfour pages of tasksel...22:45
MinceRmaybe you can feed debian-installer a list of packages to also install by hand22:45
KatolaZoh you mean as pre-seed?22:46
MinceRsomething like that22:47
fsmithredor do it the way everyone has been doing it for years - minimal install, reboot into system, add what you want22:49
KatolaZwell, if you have to do several installs, pre-seed is useful22:51
fsmithredyeah, that makes sense22:54
KatolaZMinceR: it looks like there is no standard component to do that22:55
MinceRi see22:57
KatolaZMinceR: it wouldn't be hard to do, but I really don't see which niche it might fill, TBH22:58
MinceRmaybe it would fill specing's need :)22:59
KatolaZapt-get install already does, I guess22:59
fsmithredI want openbox with lxdm and lxpanel23:05
fsmithredmiyo wants openbox with lightdm and tint223:05
golinuxThere would be infinite combos.  Sounds like a huge headache to do that in the installer23:08
fsmithredmid-install you could chroot into the target, install xserver-xephyr and a few other things and then run synaptic in the target system23:09
fsmithredthen it would be similar to some other distros' installers that let you choose from the entire repo for the install23:09
KatolaZor, you could just reboot23:12
fsmithredbut, but...23:12
fsmithredmy first debian install, I tried to use dselect like suse's installer23:12
fsmithredbrowsing through the list and adding stuff23:12
fsmithredI got it so screwed up I had to start over23:13
watchcat"choose one from column A, one from column B..."23:13
KatolaZI didn't have much choice than using dselect on my first Debian install...23:13
KatolaZI still install it today23:13
KatolaZand still use it sometimes23:13
fsmithredprobably helps if you understand some basics of debian package management23:14
KatolaZit's a neat tool23:14
fsmithredI expect I'd do better with it today than I did installing woody23:14
KatolaZactually, it looks pretty much like the initial "dpkg"23:15
KatolaZwhich is not anything like the "current" dpkg, at all23:15
fsmithredyou mean aptitude?23:15
KatolaZI mean dselect23:15
KatolaZthere is an image ^^^ of Debian 0.91 there23:16
fsmithredI just started it here23:16
KatolaZgive it a spin and run `dpkg`23:16
fsmithredtext mode - no curses23:16
fsmithredyeah, dselect is installed here23:16
fsmithred'dpkg' just tells me that I didn't tell it enough23:17
KatolaZI meant that dselect is indeed heavily inspired to the original `dpkg`23:17
KatolaZyeah, fsmithred23:17
KatolaZdpkg was a different thing in the first one or two debian releases :)23:17
KatolaZthen it was re-written by Ian Jackson and a few others23:19
fsmithredholy shit, I just downloaded a whole OS in five seconds!23:20
KatolaZwhat was that fsmithred?23:20
KatolaZgot high-speed bandwidth?23:20
fsmithreddebian_0.91_qemu.img.xz’ saved23:21
fsmithrednot terribly high - 1.97MB/s23:21
fsmithredin 5.8s23:21
rrqspecing: join #d1g-users if you need to debug your d1g issue23:21
KatolaZit would have taken several days back in 199423:21
KatolaZfsmithred: I collected several other historical distros23:23
KatolaZthe idea was to make similas qcow images for them23:23
KatolaZI still have to find the time for that :)23:24
fsmithredwhat's login/password?23:24
KatolaZno password23:24
fsmithredyeah, tried that and it worked23:24
KatolaZthe host is called "debra"23:25
KatolaZfsmithred: there is an image with packages available as well23:27
KatolaZyou just need to run dpkg_process in /root23:27
fsmithredyeah, I'm checking out package lists now23:27
fsmithredI want to try the monochrome xserver23:28
KatolaZI don't remember how packages worked though23:29
KatolaZthere must be some doc in there I guess?23:29
KatolaZoh maybe I just installed everything in that image?23:29
KatolaZit looks like there is no X in that image23:32
KatolaZbut we are probably OT by now23:32
fsmithred46 packages are installed23:32
fsmithredok, I'm done23:33
KatolaZI will get back to that project, sooner or later23:33
KatolaZI have images for slackware 1.1, redhat 1.0, and also the mirrors of SLS, Yggdrasil, TAMU and MCC23:35
golinuxTAMU = Texas A & M University.  LOL!23:45
KatolaZfsmithred: I should put online the image which contains all the packages23:45
KatolaZ(for debian-0.91)23:45
golinuxRight next to that image of the systemd hairball!23:47
golinuxThat would prove a point.23:47
MinceRthe cultists wouldn't get it23:48
golinuxBut we would23:50
KatolaZwell, to little avail23:51
KatolaZoh, I have to edit the X config file :D23:53
KatolaZhaven't done that in 10+ years I guess23:53
fsmithredKatolaZ, is it possible to make a netinstall iso that does both i386 and amd64?23:54
KatolaZnot invented yet23:55
KatolaZfsmithred: don't think so, but I haven't looked into that23:55
specingin theory it should be easy23:55
KatolaZno specing23:55
KatolaZsince udebs are arch-dependent23:55
specingcross debootstrap?23:55
KatolaZthat's not what we are talking about23:56
golinuxspecing: Maybe a project for you to develop . . .23:56
KatolaZfsmithred asked about a netinst23:56
fsmithredI know some of the directories from each could be put together, but I don't know about other parts23:57
KatolaZI don't think it's possible since the repo in netinst is flat23:57
fsmithredand I know it's possible to add a live dir to the netinstall and have a bootable live system as a boot option23:57
KatolaZbut we should have a look at that23:57
KatolaZyeah, but it's a live for the same arch I guess23:58
fsmithredbut only one arch at a time23:58
fsmithredprobably could be either arch - it has its own kernel and initrd23:58
fsmithredpoint of this is I'd like to have live isos and netinstall all on one usb23:59
fsmithredand netinstall can't find the cdrom when it's on a multiboot usb23:59

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