freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-04-04

Digitsaw this image, and thought of the fuss here about 04-01 https://diasp.eu/uploads/images/scaled_full_b3394d7be4b2e15e6ede.jpg01:26
tuxd3vWell, it his partially true01:27
tuxd3v:)01:27
tuxd3vthanks for sharing01:27
tuxd3v;)01:27
tuxd3vBut we should look around and check what options exist and what fullfills the better one for our Society01:27
tuxd3vChoice is Freedom01:27
Digitwell... i'd prefer it if we could choose what choices we get to make.   being offered a choice of a punch in the face or a kick to the groin is a poor choice, and if not allowed to run away, then there's little sign of freedom.     ... colourful analogy aside, i advocate direct democracy, e-democracy, "config democracy" n so on, rather than this multi-year gapped pseudo-elective dictatorship/kleptocracy/oligarchy stuff we have.02:07
gnarfacein #debian they'd usually respond to such statements simply with "patches welcomed"02:09
gnarfacehowever i have a different view on it02:09
gnarfaceat least where it comes to software02:09
gnarfacenot everyone is qualified to vote02:09
gnarfaceand a lot of the people who want a say the most are the ones with the most harmful ideas02:09
gnarfacei used to think the Linux toolbox sucked02:10
gnarfacethen after about 2-3 years of working with it i realized that i wasn't even remotely qualified to second-guess the people who had made the previous generation of the stuff02:10
Digitsounds like coroboration of one of my more controversial voting-system ideas... aptitude tests and weighted votes based on results.02:10
gnarfacei think feedback from all corners should be welcomed, but yea i don't think the outcome should be that the project just blindly follows the most popular lowest-common-denominator of desires02:11
Digityep02:11
gnarfacesome value needs to be given to solutions that have proven themselves with longevity02:11
gnarfacereplacing stuff just because it is old is something that unqualified children like to do02:12
gnarfaceand i know this because i remember being one of those punks02:12
Digitthe magpie effect, yeah, very dangerous.  "ooh shiny!"02:12
gnarfaceand if i can grow out of it, so can everyone else02:12
gnarfacei think the best way to go forward is to find solutions that disrupt the existing ecosystem as little as possible02:13
gnarfacei had this epiphany the other day that the biggest problem people have with sysv-rc seems to just be that they hate typing out symlinks by hand02:14
gnarfacethis is something that could be solved with a gui tool for them very easily, or even added as an extension to update-rc.d02:14
gnarfacebut then, that wouldn't drive market hype the way redhat's slash-and-burn approach does :-p02:14
tuxd3vI think you are right02:15
gnarfacebut a big problem does seem to come from companies that are more willing to spend millions reinventing the entire stack than they are to spend $300 making one guy read the fucking manual02:15
gnarfaceso you have stuff like these expensive commercial backup systems written by teams of people who couldn't figure out how to use tar right02:16
gnarfaceit's a shame02:17
gnarface(seriously, go read the netvault product blurb)02:17
gnarface(they basically admit they couldn't figure out how to use tar)02:17
DonkeyHoteitar? you mean rsync02:18
gnarfacethey'd never even *heard* of rsync02:18
tuxd3vall in all, the first impetus to a trash SysVinit was that is uses symlinks, and "know one knows what it does"..they say..02:18
tuxd3vwhen they haven't studied the subject02:18
Digitpedagogy inherent in the system.  fully integrated, upfront, unavoidable manual/training/education embedded in use... is a dream i had in 2003, imagining it would "just happen" in free software.  still a good idea methinks.02:18
gnarfacei think it's just a basic disciplinary fault of management.  but as i've said before, my father used to beat me.02:19
tuxd3vNow they have zillions of symlinks, but ina  worst way, and tons of a reinvented syntax02:19
tuxd3vfor a compiled system, that it tends to overcome the kernel itself02:19
Digitwhile it makes little sense to be guided by the lowest common denominator, it makes ample sense to accomodate/mitigate for them.02:20
Digitcant just wish em away.02:20
gnarfacethat's true, but i feel systemd isn't accommodating them so much as preying on them.02:21
gnarfaceit doesn't do what they want either02:21
Digitindeed.02:21
gnarfaceit just is marketed as such, and they're not qualified to distinguish02:21
gnarfacethat should be illegal, but unfortunately is not02:21
Digitexacerbates the harms.02:21
* gnarface should stop clogging the channel with soapboxing 02:22
gnarfacebut i do think that a couple patches to update-rc.d could obviate the whole symlink management complaint02:22
tuxd3vyeah, its true, and some companies around follow, like sheeps02:23
Digityeah, we're doing a bit of preaching to the choir methinks.  good food for thought, but we're probably over-stuffed with such nourishment.02:23
tuxd3vIndeed,02:24
tuxd3vupdate-rc.d needs tunning02:24
gnarfaceit was just never finished02:24
gnarfacebut i don't think it was fundamentally flawed conceptually02:24
tuxd3vand maybe improovments at other levels02:24
tuxd3vimprovements02:24
tuxd3vThe symlinks are a good way of dealing with deamons and such02:25
tuxd3vwe had the chkconfig in the past02:26
gnarfacei had this idea for a opengl-rendered gui that draws all the links in a big tree structure and is capable of reconstructing them and the LSB-headers based on drag&drop user actions in a dependency-aware fashion.  it would be complicated but not as complicated as replacing the entire thing with systemd02:26
gnarfaceand then it would actually solve the problem without removing flexibility OR replacing existing components OR being mandatory in and of itself02:26
gnarfaceand if you make it all colorful and flashy, the kids will like it too02:27
tuxd3vits a possibility, for simplicity02:27
tuxd3vdoes you remember chkconfig tool?02:27
tuxd3vit worked ok02:27
gnarfacei remember the name, but i feel like i only ever used it once02:27
tuxd3vit created the symlinks automatically on the runlevels you wanted too and such02:28
tuxd3veverything worked02:28
tuxd3vThe unique problem was in checking what deamon should start first02:28
gnarfacei remember ntsysv, from early redhat02:28
redrickThe RH version of chkconfig was actually a reinvention:  SGI created the initial version for Irix.  FYI.02:28
tuxd3vyes02:29
tuxd3vbut the concept was not enterely bad02:29
tuxd3vit needed refinments02:29
redrickRight.  Worked great.02:29
tuxd3vthe only problems there were about who should start first02:30
redrickI remember grumbling about having to learn update-rc.d, too.  ;->02:31
tuxd3vfor example by some reason if a deamon doesn  start, should one that depends on it start?02:31
tuxd3vchkconfig was only a tool that behind worked on update-rc.d02:32
tuxd3valso creating links and so on, to activate or deactivate the deamon02:32
redrickYou mean the Debian implementation of chkconfig was back-ended by update-rc.d?02:32
tuxd3vI believe so02:33
tuxd3vat some point it has to deal with it..02:33
redrickI never looked into the Debian version, but instead just switched to the Debian-recommended too (and grumbled a bit).02:33
redricktool, I mean.02:33
redrickI see from p.d.o that chkconfig seems to have fallen out of the archive.02:35
tuxd3vindeed02:35
tuxd3vit was a nice to have tool02:36
tuxd3vBut it needed also some improovments02:36
tuxd3vlike gnarface said above02:36
tuxd3vabout updare-rc.d02:36
tuxd3vupdate-rc.d02:37
tuxd3vHis Idea is a good option for Graphical environment..02:37
tuxd3vBut it could work out for text managment too02:38
tuxd3vimagine listing things in trees02:38
redrickIt was in Jessie, but then dropped.  But I'm pretty sure there was no dependency on /usr/sbin/update-rc.d .  https://packages.debian.org/jessie/chkconfig02:38
gnarfaceyea ncurses would probably work, just not be as popular with the kids.  i think that in theory you could make something similar for alsa configs too, knocking off most of the practical needs for pulseaudio, too02:39
tuxd3vsome sort of a pstree but different02:39
gnarfacealsa configs would be a lot harder though than the boot order02:39
gnarfacei think02:39
gnarfacebut it could still be represented in a basic tree structure02:39
tuxd3vit doesn't even need to ne ncurses02:40
redrickConceptual humour:  'No screenshot available.  Sorry.'  https://screenshots.debian.net/package/chkconfig02:40
tuxd3vit his a text base tool02:40
redrickQuite so.02:41
redrick#ThatsTheJoke02:41
redrickBut they accept uploads.  ;->02:41
tuxd3vchkconfig --level 12345 deamon off02:42
tuxd3vchkconfig del deamon02:42
tuxd3vchkconfig --add deamon02:43
tuxd3vchkconfig --level 12345 deamon on02:43
tuxd3vsimple things..02:43
tuxd3vit creates behind the symlinks for deamosn and such02:44
tuxd3vthe problem.. I don't know if it resolved dependencies, I think not..02:44
tuxd3vthat needed to be sorted out in the script of the deamon02:44
tuxd3vBut anny way, in systemd you evben have a file that you put all that stuff there, plus02:45
tuxd3vlater the creation of the deamon..02:45
tuxd3vchconfig had a better aproach, and dependencies could be dealed inside each deamon02:46
tuxd3vI only start the engine, if I have a engine02:46
tuxd3vI think is needed to deal with update-rc.d behind02:47
tuxd3vbut I agree that a improoved SysVinit is needed02:48
tuxd3vevolutionary steps02:48
tuxd3v:)02:48
tuxd3vnot disruptive changes that ends to be faraonic and in the end, its 10 times more complicated, a mess..02:48
tuxd3v<gnarface>, What you are sugesting its something like lstopo03:07
gnarfaceoh, does something like it already exist?03:07
tuxd3vlstopo could be a good example of representing also, the processes in a machine03:07
gnarfacei didn't know03:07
tuxd3vexists but for topology03:07
tuxd3vit has a cli frontend03:08
tuxd3vand a graphical one03:08
tuxd3vits very nice03:08
tuxd3vThe 'hwloc' package provides it03:13
tuxd3vbut its usually describes hardware03:13
tuxd3vits good for multicpu numa systems03:13
tuxd3valso03:13
tuxd3vfor tunning03:13
tuxd3vpath costs and so on..03:14
tuxd3veven tough I never use it..03:14
tuxd3vbut is something that describes something it could deal with alsa03:14
tuxd3vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dvDX17GH003:18
ih8wndzhi08:53
hightower3hi08:54
ih8wndzdid a refractainstall, got system running in a kvm. trying to figure out networking. full disclosure, I am a funtoo (gentoo) user08:54
ih8wndznvm, figured it out tnx09:05
premobosshello, i have to list what is inside a directory1, but i have to see ONLY the files name, not the names of the directories inside directory1. I read all the man of ls but i dont find a flag as "--exclude-directories-name". i can do a for-next bash script to test if eac name refere to a directoriy or to a file, but i will prefere to use a single command "ls" with  (if exists) the right paraleter. Some hit here?11:47
debdogfrom the top of my head, "ls ... | grep ^-" come to mind11:50
KatolaZfind ./ -type f11:50
debdoghehe, or that one11:50
KatolaZfind ./ -type f | sed -r  "s:.*/([^/]+):\1:g"11:52
premobossmm i try all.11:59
Demosthenexi'm going ot upgrade my box with samba and zfs to ascii today. any reservations?11:59
premobossKatolaZ, that regex what do?12:00
hightower3premoboss, something like    find  /directory1 -type f -maxdepth 1  ?12:00
KatolaZpremoboss: remove the directory from the path12:01
premobossand the winner is: hightower3 :-)12:01
KatolaZactually, you could use basename, but it's many more processes to be spawn12:01
hightower3premoboss, (also for professional approach, if at all possible add option -print0 to find, and then treat the list as nullchar-separated rather than newline-separated. Most of the common cmdline tools have an option -0 or similar to indicate this)12:02
debdogoops, mine only works with ls -l, premoboss12:02
* debdog is too used to his aliasas12:03
premobossdebdog, with -l i get also many other parameter, instead i just need te list of the file name. anyway tahnks also to you to read my requewst and try to help.12:04
debdogyah, find prolly is the better option here12:05
dethaor just ls -F | grep -v /12:38
gnarfacels -w 115:49
gnarface(single column list)15:49
nemognarface: what would I use that for?16:38
gnarfacenemo: to pipe to another script, probably.  i was responding late to something, don't worry about it.16:39
nemoah16:39
nemothought single column was default in piping anyway16:39
gnarfacei'm not sure if that's always a safe bet16:41
nemoapparently piped ls is always equiv to ls -116:42
nemo"16:42
nemoPOSIX requires -1 as the default whenever output is not going to a terminal:"16:42
gnarfacei was having weird problems with the order being not what i expected16:46
nemoalthough for the cautious, -b is probably a good idea16:46
gnarfaceso i had some thought it was going across columns instead of down them16:46
gnarfacein the newer versions, the addition of quoted file names with spaces being the default caused some messes for me too16:47
gnarface(though you can turn it off with -N, that breaks decades of expected behavior)16:47
nemoI'd learned long ago to never do for i in `/bin/ls *foo*`16:51
nemobut | while read f doesn't protect against anyone silly enough to put newlines in a file16:52
nemoor tricksy enough16:52
nemoit's usually not an issue ofc, but possible to make such a file by accident16:52
nemo*file name16:52
nemognarface: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs  heh - he doesn't recommend the pipe either tho16:54
nemobut then the bash faq is very comprehensive16:54
nemo-print0 is annoying, but, eh, I guess if one wants to be (mostly) bulletproof...16:55
ashleyki alwys do while read -r file; do echo $file; done < <(find...)16:56
ashleykor whatever i want in the <()16:57
ashleykaka while read -r line;16:58
nemoashleyk: I guess that's fine so long as you *don17:03
nemo't* want piping/subshells17:03
ashleykyou can do that17:03
nemoashleyk: although the -print0 would still be needed if you wanted to be cautious17:03
ashleykyou can do piping and subshells inside the while loop?17:03
nemoand that syntax is naturally not portable, but number of times where that's mattered for me is close to 017:04
nemoashleyk: I was just distinguishing between find | while and while… done < <(find)17:04
ashleykhmm k17:04
ashleykone loop to rule them all!17:05
James1138..."my precious"17:08
nemoashleyk: either one is totally fine, so long as the resulting behaviour is what were looking for17:08
nemoashleyk: it's true that the default subshell insulation is probably surprising to most people17:08
nemoashleyk: although not contaminating the environment outside the loop can be good too17:09
ashleykhmm yeah, i dont know a lot about it :p17:09
nemodunno. depends I guess17:09
ashleykwhatever works is my motto17:09
nemoashleyk: well... your syntax (besidesb eing shell specific) means that variables created inside the loop are in same scope as parent process so  - that means screwing with env vars inside the loop would apply to your parent shell too17:10
ashleykah, right17:10
nemoashleyk: while,  find | while confuses people due to their loop counters or whatever not making it outside the loop if they didn't echo them ☺17:10
ashleykheres another 'whatever works'17:12
nemoashleyk: | awk '{SUM+=$1}END{print SUM}'   ←  BTW, don't know much awk, but I use it for loop summation a lot ☺17:13
ashleykTSV format file reading: cat "$clientsFile" | while IFS=$'\t' read -r port client memo _17:13
nemoashleyk: yeah. that's probably the standard way to split a string into an array17:13
ashleykyeah bash is great...i dont do portable stuff :p17:14
nemo$ grep IFS 2000_histoire/fetch.sh  | head -n 1 IFS=: read -a COL <<< "$f"17:14
ashleyk@_@17:14
ashleykheh17:14
nemoI was grabbing some episodes of a super interesting history program that was not good at podcasts17:14
ashleykabout the french revolution? heh17:15
nemoso step one of my munger went to their website and grabbed the html and parsed it, then this was the fetcher that turned it into something useful17:15
nemoashleyk: about all kinds of stuff really17:15
nemohttps://blog-histoire.fr/  there's a nicer fan site now17:15
nemobut it did not exist 10 years ago17:15
ashleyknice, bbl17:20
premobossi have to parse the thr name of a file and extract the extention. it is easy to do cut -d "." -f2 if the filename is easy as music.mp3 or printme.ps, but how to do if a file is named crazy.name.for.a.file.avi?18:14
premobossin other words, i have to capture all the characters after the last "."18:14
premoboss(if it exist)18:14
KatolaZpremoboss: man basename18:15
premobossok18:16
KatolaZoh you want just the extension sorry18:16
premobossyes18:17
nemopremoboss: you using bash?18:21
premobossnemo, yes18:21
gnarfacepremoboss: heard of "file" ?18:21
gnarface(filename parsing to assume mime-type based on name doesn't solve for the issue of the file not having any extension)18:22
nemoFILE=crazy.name.for.a.file.avi18:22
nemoecho ${FILE##*.}18:22
nemoavi18:22
KatolaZls  | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g'18:22
nemohttps://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/string-manipulation.html18:22
KatolaZthis doies part of the job18:22
premobossok18:22
gnarfacefile super_late_fun_time.avi18:22
gnarfacesuper_late_fun_time.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 720 x 480, ~30 fps, video: FFMpeg MPEG-4, audio: Dolby AC3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)18:22
KatolaZ'cause it also prints the filename of files without an extension18:23
KatolaZsorry but I gotta go18:23
premobossok18:23
premobosstnanks all18:23
premobossthanks 2 all of yo18:23
premobossthanks 2 all of you18:24
gnarfacethere's like a ton of ways to do this, but make sure you know for sure whether you actually want to know the file name suffix, or just the type of data it contains18:24
gnarfacesince there's no guarantee those will match18:24
KatolaZbut you can remove those with18:24
KatolaZls  | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g;s/^[^\.]*//g;/^$/d'18:27
premobosslook, my goal is split filename to add a string inside: namefile.extension must became namefileMYSTRYNG.extention and if no extention exist, it must became namefileMYSTRUNG18:27
nemopremoboss: why not just use rename?18:28
premobossnemo, because i didnt know it is possible to do with rename :-)18:28
premobossif it is possible, now i read man rename18:28
nemotouch foo.bar foo18:29
nemorename 's/\./EXTRA./' foo*18:29
nemofoo fooEXTRA.bar18:29
nemopremoboss: then you just need to do the $ case18:29
nemoyou could do those in a single command but 2 might be safer18:29
premobossnemo what if therea re a name like this.is.my.file.avi? i need it became this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi18:30
premobossnemo, if I try your rename with 1.2.3.4.avi, it became 1EXTRA.2.3.4.avi, i neet it became 1.2.3.4EXTRA.avi.18:33
premobossi dont know how much "." can be inside the name of file.18:33
nemo/tmp/test$ touch this.is.my.file.avi this_is_my_file_avi18:35
nemo$ rename 's/(.*)\./$1EXTRA./' *18:35
nemo$ rename 's/^([^.]*)$/$1EXTRA/' *18:35
nemo$ ls18:35
nemothis_is_my_file_aviEXTRA  this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi18:35
premobossnemo: no. i try to trell you better. the name of file can be whatever it is. can be or can be not an extention, can be one or more "dot" inside the name. i.e. file, file.txt, this-is_my.file.txt. then must became: fileEXTRA, fileEXTRA.txt, this-is_my.fileEXTRA.txt.18:38
nemoyes18:39
nemoand those patterns above would match both of those18:39
nemoall of those even18:39
premobossok, i will test immediately.18:39
nemohow is my result not what you wanted18:39
premobossbecayse i bad read yout text, sorry.18:39
Demosthenexok, ascii upgrade went pretty smooth... but how can i repeat the prompts for merging config files? my ipmi console was crap and i had to skip them18:39
gnarfaceDemosthenex: just merge them manually18:43
Demosthenexgnarface: i don't have a record for what was missed. i have least 3 that were at the prompt then ipmi disconnected and i had to blindly hit return18:44
gnarfaceDemosthenex: the unmerged ones should be in /etc right along side the regular config with .dpkg-old or .dpkg-dist extensions (depending on whether the version is the  pre-merge or packaged version)18:44
ashleykjust got a intel nuc18:46
gnarfaceDemosthenex: (i like to use emacs for large config merges, but i'm sure there are other tools to help too)18:47
James1138Question about Devuan. A few months back, I installed "reportlog" - hoping to help (however small) in my own way those working on future version of Devuan. Is there anyway to find out if the reports are reaching the right people... or do I need just purge "reportlog" and try something else?18:47
Demosthenexgnarface: i was hoping there was a tool like dpkg-reconfigure to repeat them :P18:47
Demosthenexgnarface: guess i can just find /etc | grep dist18:48
gnarfaceDemosthenex: i don't know that there's not, this is just always the way i've done it, because i like emacs better18:48
gnarfaceit has a file merge feature with color-coding18:48
gnarfaceguided18:48
James1138I meant "reportbug" - sorry all!18:49
Demosthenexgnarface: i'm already an aged emacser ;]18:49
gnarfaceJames1138: they should go here, i think.  not sure if they're expected to show up immediately though, and i recall at least in the past someone having to change the reportbug config to make it work... https://bugs.devuan.org/18:49
James1138Thank for the tip ganrface - I shall check out the link.18:52
ashleykis there a way that actually works to convert the netinstall iso to a flash drive18:56
gnarfaceashleyk: no need, it's special hybrid-iso18:57
Demosthenexgnarface: what's your fav emacs diff mode? ;]18:58
gnarfaceDemosthenex: i've been using M-x ediff-merge-buffers18:59
ashleykgonna try devuan for Nessus19:01
ashleyktheir supported distro list is really bad19:01
ashleykguess i bricked it already trying to disable secure boot19:15
gnarfaceis that possible?19:19
gnarfaceyou can't even reset the bios settings?19:19
gnarfacepull the cmos battery out and count to 10 or whatever?19:19
ashleykyeah about to do the cmos jumper19:20
ashleykbecause the other methods didnt work19:20
ashleykbut nooooooo they just had to shove uefi and secureboot down everyones throats19:35
ashleykthanks intel and microsoft19:36
ashleykwhen chip and os backdoors arent enough, go after the bios, then get your buddies to go after the OS, then takeover the kernel too, and do that!19:37
ashleykbut i got it installing19:38
ashleykno ethernet detected though19:39
ashleykguess its not open code because of the backdoors in the ethernet19:40
Demosthenexgnarface: thanks for the feedback19:47
Demosthenexthat upgrade went pretty smoothly all things considered19:47
gnarfaceno problem, glad to hear it19:47
ashleykwell the installer is trying to find ethernet19:53
ashleykand cant19:53
ashleykah, linux isnt supported19:56
gnarfaceashleyk: you're probably just missing a non-free firmware package19:57
gnarfacei'm not sure which one19:57
ashleykshould i try with the dvd iso ?19:57
gnarfaceyou should be able to load the package into the installer19:58
gnarfaceor complete the install then copy the package over via usb19:58
gnarfaceyou just have to figure out which one it is19:58
ashleykhttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005499/mini-pcs.html19:59
ashleykprobably not worth it actually19:59
gnarfaceis it wifi you mean, or the wired ethernet that's not working?19:59
ashleykethernet19:59
gnarfaceoh, maybe you need the backport kernel because the hardware is that new20:02
gnarfacethat's possible too20:02
ashleykor i just run windows 10 and network bridged vms20:03
ashleykproblem is i need an x86 device to run nessus because they went closed source20:04
ashleykand dont provide arm compiles20:04
ashleykbut all this new hardware is locked down for microsoft20:05
ashleykSAD!20:05
specingashleyk: stop using proprietary software20:25
ashleyki tried openvas, and its going the same direction20:25
ashleykalso, it doesnt work20:25
ashleyki dont know how you can just take an opensource software and go closed source20:28
unixmanashleyk, what about OpenVAS doesn't work? I'm curious because I was going to suggest that to our SOC.20:30
ashleykthe CVE scanner doesnt work20:30
unixman:(20:30
ashleykjust the nmap part20:30
ashleykfor me at least, the CVE scanner always says the host in unchreachable and its undebuggable.  pinging the host works fine20:31
va7lnxashleyk: try disabling selinux on that openvas host.20:32
ashleykselinux wasnt installed20:32
va7lnxhrm. I got nothing then.20:32
unixmanThat does seem like a configuration thing to me though. What port(s) is it trying to hit?20:33
ashleykva7lnx, you have seen the "CVE" scanner work before?  i cant even find any articles online about someone actually saying they use it or it works either.  everyone is doing the other scan type20:33
va7lnxashleyk: I was doing a quick google search.20:34
ashleykah20:34
ashleykheh20:34
va7lnxanyhow. I have to get to class. 3 days left before finals. :\20:34
ashleykbye20:35
va7lnxi get to drive from burnaby metrotown to coquitlam centre for one 2 hour class. *sigh*20:37
ashleykcity life is a drag :p20:37
va7lnxit's worse when skytrain goes from here to there, but takes twice as long.20:38
Digitanyone know how to get xscreensaver to switch off the monitor after a while?  in xscreensaver-demo's advanced tab, under "Display Power Management" there's standby, suspend & off, but i dont want to risk trying any of them in case they swich off my computer, rather than just stop my monitor emitting light.22:16
tuxd3vxscreen saver adpaced tab22:20
tuxd3vadvanced22:20
tuxd3vDyspolay power managment22:20
tuxd3vQuick power of in Blank only Mode22:20
tuxd3vDigit?22:22
gnarfaceDigit: don't worry, it means dpms settings by that.22:22
tuxd3vDigit, you are in Xfce right?22:23
Digittuxd3v: nope.  just xmonad.22:23
tuxd3vBut you are using XScreen saver right?22:24
Digityes, that's what i'm asking about.  xscreensaver.22:24
tuxd3vadvanced tab22:24
Digityes, that's what i said22:24
tuxd3vthen on Power Managment section22:24
Digityes, that's what i said22:24
tuxd3vyou have there a option22:24
tuxd3vQuick Power off in Blank only Mode22:25
tuxd3vactivate it22:25
tuxd3vthen22:25
MinceRDigit: those options only turn the monitor off22:25
tuxd3vtest22:25
MinceRi use them daily22:25
Digitthanks MinceR.22:25
MinceRnp22:25
tuxd3vCRTL+ALT+l22:26
tuxd3v;)22:26
* Digit hopes gnarface & MinceR are right. ~ sure he remembered those settings causing unwanted computer shutdown in the past22:27
gnarfacewell, are you sure it wasn't a false positive? some of those screensavers aren't stable22:27
gnarfacethe opengl ones cause stability issues with nvidia proprietary and also will suck your battery dry really fast22:28
gnarfacei recommend disabling them22:28
tuxd3vI had some troubles with xscreensaver in the past...but it was my fault, becasue I choosed times to hibernate very shorts..22:28
tuxd3vthen I suffered a shutdown22:28
tuxd3vCan we use Slim, has a screen saver type?22:29
tuxd3vimagine22:29
tuxd3vlock screen22:29
tuxd3vis used dpms and goes blank22:29
gnarfacei'm not sure about that but e17 does have a built-in lock screen22:29
tuxd3vtouch any key, it activates with the slim session manager?22:30
Digittypically i would just use galaxy.  but i'll make sure the GL ones are off for this test.22:30
ashleykhola tuxd3v22:31
MinceRxscreensaver has gotten really buggy lately, but i doubt it has code to shutdown the computer22:31
gnarfacelately?  it's never been better.  it's always been exactly this buggy.22:32
gnarfaceat least from my perspective22:32
gnarfacebut a lot really has to do with which actual screensavers you activate22:32
gnarfacethey are of wildly varying quality and resource consumption22:33
MinceRi haven't seen it blank its own window during password entry (without timing out) before22:33
MinceRi could tell it's still there because it still constrains the pointer to its box and i can still unlock it22:33
gnarfaceyou mean you have seen that?22:34
MinceRalso, it realized its config file was overwritten before and reread it22:34
MinceRthen it stopped doing that and had to be told explicitly22:34
MinceRyes22:34
tuxd3vHi ashleyk22:34
gnarfacehmm22:34
gnarfacethere are several xscreensaver-* packages in the repos.  a couple of them are optional and i suspect they are where the more problematic screensavers are located.22:34
gnarfacei would especially be wary of xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-gl-extra and xscreensaver-screensaver-webcollage22:35
MinceRi don't even use any modules, i have it set to blank or disable22:35
* Digit goes for the test, blanking after 1m, standby after 2, suspend after 3, off after 4minues. ~~scared~~ ~~~ meditates ~~~22:36
gnarfaceDigit: you did make sure you don't have sleep or hibernate timeouts for the machine set elsewhere, right?22:36
tuxd3vMAn.. that times are very very short22:36
* Digit pauses the test to check that22:36
gnarface  Standby: 305    Suspend: 306    Off: 30722:37
gnarfacesystem defaults in seconds^22:37
gnarfacefor dpms22:37
tuxd3vI havce22:37
tuxd3vstandby 30 minutes22:37
tuxd3vsuspend after 60 minutes22:37
tuxd3voff after 120 minutes22:37
Digitgnarface: nothing obvious in /etc/X11/xorg.conf     where else might there be sleep or hibernate timeouts?22:39
gnarfaceDigit: uh... acpi maybe?  is it a laptop?  some laptop brands have brand-specific packages and kernel modules too.  maybe it could be in the window manager settings as well, though for xmonad i thought it was pretty minimal and didn't have such stuff.  maybe you don't even need to worry about it, but i was just thinking of things that could give you false positives on your test22:40
DonkeyHoteisleep/hibernate timeouts are part of the DE, no?22:41
gnarfaceDonkeyHotei: sometimes, but i don't know for sure that's the only place they go.22:42
gnarfaceer, the only place they can go22:42
DonkeyHoteias for switching off the monitor, that's DPMS, which is part of the terminal22:42
gnarfaceyea, he's got that part covered with xscreensaver22:42
gnarfacesuspend/hibernate timeouts might also be exposed as raw files in /sys/ i think22:43
tuxd3vFound it:22:44
tuxd3vslimlock22:44
tuxd3vits the way to lock screen on slim22:44
gnarfaceinteresting22:44
* Digit returns from test22:44
gnarfaceeverything fine?22:44
tuxd3vit works22:45
tuxd3vvery very nice!!22:45
tuxd3vtest it on shell typing22:45
tuxd3vslimlock22:45
tuxd3vamazing22:45
tuxd3vbeutifull simplicity22:45
tuxd3v:)22:45
Digithdmi monitor stays blue through standby, suspend, and off.  dvi monitor does stop emitting light (cept the power light goes yellow, which is fine).  (and my display power monitor's been broken for a while, so couldnt test).   good to know my computer didnt enter hibernate or shutdown.  :)  thanks for your help gnarface & MinceR.22:46
buZz'xset dpms force off' -should- turn off your monitor22:47
buZzif not, dpms isnt working well for you :)22:47
Digitso, before bed, i just need remember switch off my hdmi.22:47
buZzDigit: sounds like you're using a TV22:47
buZzand not a monitor ;)22:47
buZzTVs dont support DPMS usually22:47
Digitxset dpms force off just made my monitors emit black, not actually off.22:48
buZzDigit: it -should- turn them actually off22:48
buZzincl backlights22:48
buZzare you running the proper videodrivers for your graphics interface?22:48
Digitdell 3008wfpt 30" monitors.22:48
Digitnvidia22:48
buZz(as in, not nouveau for nvidia)22:48
* Digit nods, ~ straight nvidia22:49
buZzi run official nvidia drivers on a gtx1060 , xset dpms force off turns my screens -off-22:49
buZzincl backlights22:49
buZzon DP, DVI -and- HDMI connectors22:49
gnarfacehmmm.  HDMI might have an alternate feature available for turning the display off... HDMI CEC i think it's called?22:49
Digitcould just be my cheap monitors.  :322:49
buZzDigit: none of my monitors costed more then 50 euro22:49
DonkeyHoteiCEC is different22:50
gnarfaceDigit: it could be.  it depends on where and when you bought them.  but here in the US it's illegal to sell displays that aren't DPMS-enabled22:50
buZzhighly doubt those dell monitors -dont- support DPMS22:50
DigitbuZz: yeah, i got greedy, went for 30", 3 of them, ~ cheapest i could find, 2nd hand.  i forget how much, but ... more than 50 euro anyway.22:50
buZzi got a dell monitor here, supports DPMS fine22:51
buZza DELL P2412H22:51
gnarfaceDonkeyHotei: i just brought up the CEC thing because there is cec-utils in the repos and i thought that if DPMS failed him it would be an alternative that didn't require getting up to push the power button manually22:52
gnarfacei guess i don't even know for sure that cec-utils package is actually the same thing as HDMI CEC22:52
gnarfacenever touched it22:53
Digiti wonder if there's just some settings in the monitor that i could meddle with, to stop it emitting blue...  for the one connected with hdmi.   *fiddles*22:53
gnarfaceit's just bare HDMI right, no adapters?22:54
DonkeyHoteinot every nvidia card supports cec, either22:54
Digitcable goes from hdmi to hdmi, monitor to card.22:54
hightower2congrats on the conference22:58
Digitoh.  that caused me a half second panic thinking i'd missed it.  n_n22:59
* Digit gives up on figuring out how to get his hdmi connected monitor to stop going brightest blue instead of not emitting light, for this attempt now, happy enough making do with his "remember to turn it off before bed" workaround23:01
Digitglad i can now fall asleep watching things on the middle monitor (dvi), n not have it glare light through the night23:02
gnarfaceoh23:02
gnarfaceDigit: my projector does that too when all the inputs power off... you should be able to find a menu setting to change the color of that screen from blue to black or grey23:03
Digiti'll have another rummage around in the monitor's settings trying to find it.23:04
gnarfacethe hdmi connection must be going to sleep without making the monitor sleep23:04
gnarfacei'm not sure where the blame for that would be23:04
gnarfacebut that probably means it has it's own menu settings for sleep timeouts too23:04
Digityikes.   tried one setting i was unsure of, now the screen's super bright n tiny on the monitor.  eep.  and the menu wont come back.   O_O23:07
Digitoooo, and the other button i didnt know what it does changed it to full screen and non-superbright...23:08
gnarfacemust be scaling for lower resolutions than the display native?23:08
Digitah, i see, that option in the menu just does the same as that other button.  pbp setting.23:09
Digitoh, nope.  nothing in the menus for stopping it be blue.23:13
Digitah well.23:13
Digitnormal service resumes in #devuan.  :)23:13
gnarfaceDigit: well, the cheap ones have less features.  it might still be worth consulting the manual though.23:15
Digityup.  cheap ones.  that seems to be the case.  no option to have it not do that.23:16
misterunknownls -l23:23
Digitno such dir23:25

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