freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-04-09

AchyllesI am trying to recompile a devuan distro through refractasnapshot. I have mate desktop and Xfce4 and stumpwm as DEs and TW. In my snap, I would like to exclude Mate. How do I write this procedure in my /usr/lib/refracta-exclude.conf ?01:51
AchyllesI cannot see an example there, but only removing folders examples --> -# /home/$user/Music/*  and etc...01:53
rafalcpp_so CVE-2019-3842 seems a critical systemd exploit11:53
xinomilolatest apache exploits https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4422 seem more relevant to devuan users-webmasters.12:15
rafalcppxinomilo:  did devuan somehow avoided it?12:19
xinomilosystemd exploit? yes, by not using it all :D12:19
xinomilojust keep systems upgraded12:20
EvilhamAnd the apache2 is not avoided, but automqgicalky fixed by diverging as little as needed frkm debian12:26
* Evilham sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/RfHVuKbscjvKQYwICrdfGzIc >12:26
* Evilham uses the opportunity to remind everyone that in spite of the differences, debian does a great job and devuan relies on that wherever possible12:29
tuxd3vGood Morning freedom lovers12:40
popgreenyGood Mroning12:51
popgreenyMorning*12:51
telmichgood morning14:10
telmichI guess most of you have already seen / read https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1083082-systemd-free-debian-devuan-planning-their-first-developer-gathering-this-spring/ -- in case you haven't, the comments section is something I recommend for reading14:11
telmichNot for getting angry, but to understand the crowds better14:11
* Evilham sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/wHCdyQNAMtsKQxNzZCrkyGFq >14:32
EvilhamWhich are fair but non incomplete points14:33
Evilham*but incomplete14:33
EvilhamFor the first one, I know quite a few people sticking to debian without systemd as a kind of experiment "we'll see how long I can keep that up"14:34
EvilhamThe second one is well-deserved in both directions as things got very nasty at some point, but these days is kind of anachronistic14:35
EvilhamAnd the third one... Well, that's a matter of how you look at things and there is value in understanding why people think that, but they rarely elaborate14:35
telmichEvilham: there are 352 comments, do you plan to comment on all of them? :-)14:41
telmichA lot of it is trolling, but even if it is, it shows what people do think14:41
EvilhamNo, just wondered if there is anything specific you think is important14:41
EvilhamI have clustered bunch of comments on previous articles / threads on those 3 categories, that's why I mentioned that14:42
EvilhamIf there's something new and you know that, I'll happily read :-D otherwise, I am aware of these fuzzy 3 directions of critique14:43
nemoeven if I wasn't using devuan I'd be grateful to it for keeping options open in the linux ecosystem.  I dislike the one-system-to-rule-them-all approaches, especially when they have no standard specifications, binary formats, and are "living" things where any 3rd party reimplementations play catchup14:44
nemoand that's setting aside systemd's security fails in the past14:45
nemodevuan and gentoo, both doing good work on this front14:46
nemoirritates me when I hear stuff like "oh, if only everyone in the world used google chrome everything would be much easier"14:46
nemo"oh if only everyone used github"14:46
nemo"… systemd … "  "… ubuntu … "14:47
nemoMP4 ☺14:47
nemoseems every bit of software out there that gets a bit of traction has adherents who push for it to become THE standard14:47
nemoregardless of what issues there might be in its design, documentation and development14:48
djphnemo: welcome to "humans"15:24
djphalso, if everyone would realize we don't need to re-implement IRC every 3 years ... that'd be great.15:25
ashleykdjph, recreate irc, sell to china (so spying is legal), repeat15:27
djphashleyk: so, basically, "here, I signed into all the IRC channels with this bot..."15:29
ashleyknah, just own the servers15:31
ashleykjust make any kind of anonymous communication service and "they" will storm you to buy it15:32
nemodjph: at least there's that IRCv3 which seems to be getting traction15:40
nemomaybe that'll head 'em off at the pass15:41
nemowelp. the first page of comments was fairly stupid15:43
nemoand I'm not gonna bother whitelisting phoronix just 'cause they think navigating pages in a forum thread requires JS, based on the SNR of that first page15:44
ashleyknemo, heh16:12
djphheh16:17
ashleykand maps.google.com (when i accidentily click a link or something) says "when js is disabled all that can remain is a blank page" or something stupid16:18
tuxd3vWell, I think Devuan has very good options to grow, into something really really good16:59
tuxd3v:)16:59
tuxd3vIt will depend on which companies or developers come in..17:00
tuxd3vI think most of the people that come in, come from the Debian world17:00
chillfanWe'll grow for sure and at minimum show that choice for users can be made to work even if we suggest our own defaults17:00
tuxd3vThey don't feel themselves identified with the Debian project anymore17:01
tuxd3vAnd this people come, and have very good ideas17:01
tuxd3votherones need to be keep into the box until, Devuan can realize them17:02
tuxd3vBut all in All, I think that Devuan, will have Success17:02
tuxd3vPeople that come, want to do things, and that is good17:03
tuxd3v:)17:03
ashleykdebian is crap now, there i said it17:04
tuxd3vI think that people is not against systemd,17:04
tuxd3vPeople are against the lost of their freedom to use whatever they want/need17:05
chillfanhah, I could go one further but it's needless now.. we forked and we're here :)17:05
chillfanright now, I'd just like to see our community grow a little17:05
tuxd3vDebian is turning itself into a desktop os/ Container OS17:06
chillfanwhich I'm sure is happening17:06
tuxd3vwith the premises that RedHat will bring them some good things..17:06
chillfanis that their official position?17:06
furrywolfI'm still really pissed off about the switch from the debian menu system to fdo's stupidly awful menu system, because everyone else jumped off a cliff too.17:06
chillfanor just how you see the situation?17:07
tuxd3vIn my opinion they are loosing the server market they had with that..17:07
ashleyktuxd3v, laptop os17:07
chillfanWhat is fdo?17:07
ashleyklosing embedded market too17:07
ashleykwho would use anything other than devuan for an embedded device, really17:07
chillfanwell, I think we're doing very well for embedded17:08
chillfanthanks to some great work by parazyd (among others I think)17:08
ashleykyes, debian isnt doing so well17:08
tuxd3vparazyd has done a really great job17:08
furrywolffdo: freedesktop.org17:08
chillfanah, you mean the menu package that was univeral over desktops and wms17:09
furrywolfyep.  that the tech comittee ruled should be ditched because everyone else jumped off a cliff so they should too.17:09
tuxd3vthere are also other, that are creating sdks to create your own Devuan OS for some boards( like me..and others out there )17:09
chillfanhe really has, I'm grateful there are premade images for many devices and no need to make your own or go to a third party17:09
tuxd3vI will publish my work, when I think it is a base ground for expanding to other boards17:10
chillfangreat, I'd like to see that17:10
ashleyki also manually got devuan running on a new board17:11
tuxd3vyes askleyk, is also working on that17:11
ashleykworth it17:11
chillfanyeah there are a couple of avenues for doing that. Chroot install, vmdebootstrap etc17:11
chillfanand also live sdk17:11
tuxd3vI had a sdk working, but then it come the idea of switching to mainline kernel/uboot17:11
tuxd3vand also upgrading cross toolchain17:12
tuxd3vand other stuff17:12
tuxd3vso I am restructuring the sdk17:12
chillfanalso there is devsus for installing on asus c20117:12
tuxd3vthe ubbot build, is stable17:12
tuxd3v*uboot*17:12
tuxd3vcrosstoolchain download and veryfi, is almost done17:13
chillfanby dimkr : https://github.com/dimkr/devsus17:13
tuxd3vkernel compilation also almost done17:13
chillfangreat. Did you mention it on the ml?17:13
tuxd3vneed to restructure some things..and I am trying to create it, so that would be easy to anny one to expand, to other boards17:14
chillfanI'm sure people want to hear about it :)17:14
chillfanfurrywolf: ah yes.. that annoyed me a lot as well.17:15
tuxd3vI have spoken with parazyd, he gave me lots of help, and I also got lots information with other guys out there17:15
chillfandebian is becoming less and less debian by the day17:15
tuxd3vthe framwork is based on whiptail17:15
chillfantuxd3v: ah that's great then17:15
tuxd3vso any regular human17:15
tuxd3vcan launch it17:15
tuxd3vnavegate in the menus17:15
chillfanI get ya, thanks for your efforts17:15
tuxd3vand do everything17:16
furrywolfone of debian's features was a really nicely organized menu system, everything in its place, lots of submenus, etc...  now it's all lumped together into a massive mess with only a few categories (for example, CAD programs get stuffed under graphics now), and many things are gone entirely.17:16
tuxd3vsince downloading code17:16
tuxd3vtoolchains17:16
tuxd3vuboot17:16
tuxd3vkernel17:16
tuxd3vand then17:16
tuxd3vstart all process to build a devuan OS for that board17:16
ashleykfurrywolf, debian is irrelevant now17:16
tuxd3vI am in the mean time testing on Allwinner board17:17
ashleykthis is fine17:17
tuxd3vone plus17:17
tuxd3vH617:17
chillfanI agree but we did lose one of the good things to come from debian17:17
tuxd3vthen I am planning for Pineh6417:17
tuxd3vwhich is also a h6 board17:17
ashleykchillfan, ah, i see17:17
tuxd3vthen, I am planning for rockchip board17:17
tuxd3vrockpro64 ofcourse17:18
chillfanalso good from debian imho is dash.. and I wouldn't mind seeing it become the only system shell needed for a bare system with login etc17:18
tuxd3vand yes, I am planning to add support for the fan too17:18
tuxd3vhttps://github.com/tuxd3v/ats17:18
tuxd3v:)17:18
chillfaninstead of forced bash support I should say, not that it's a trivial fix17:18
chillfanwhich is nice if you want embedded system and choose your own shell like busybox17:19
tuxd3vI also have their a tool, to help compile to vortually any armv7/armv8 arch tunned to for example big.LITLE or not17:20
tuxd3vI spoke with parazyd, about dash..17:22
tuxd3vUnfortunatly I have started with bash..17:22
tuxd3vdash is small and more optimized, but I think its not a login shell17:23
ashleykwhy would you want dash over bash17:23
tuxd3vdash is faster17:23
tuxd3vcleaner less resourcess.17:23
ashleykbash is slow?...hmm17:23
tuxd3vusually is used to lanch deamons and so17:23
ashleyki never knew bash was slow17:24
chillfanwell I don't mean specifically for your project17:24
tuxd3vtuxd3v@desktop0:~/Desktop/H6/OrangePiH6$ ls -l /bin/sh17:24
tuxd3vlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 24  2017 /bin/sh -> dash17:24
chillfanbut it would be better if bash wasn't a 100% requirement for devuan which it currently is17:24
chillfanfor most PC/laptop based installs is fine ofc17:25
ashleykwell, im sure making bash a requirement simplifies a lot of stuff17:25
ashleykif you think about it17:25
tuxd3vits the default shell of the system, even though that the ash shell is used in a lot of distros in initramfs faze17:25
tuxd3vbecause it his even smaller and low resourcess.17:25
chillfanyeah, but also dash is always required too, and is faster, less resources, lower footprint17:25
chillfanbut say you wanted to come up with something embedded where bash wouldn't fit17:25
chillfanit's easier if everything system related relies on dash, then let user have any login shell they want17:26
ashleykbut in 10 years people will want to remove dash17:26
ashleyk....17:26
ashleykto replace it with yash17:26
tuxd3vwell17:26
ashleykyet another shell17:26
chillfanmaybe, who knows.. but dash is simply posix compliant, and the scripts will work with bash and others too17:27
tuxd3vDash is already the default shell like I showed above..17:27
chillfanyea default system shell, bash is required for two things though..17:27
tuxd3vyou can even push it further, and use ash in initramfs17:27
tuxd3vand dash for the rest17:27
chillfansome packages as part of the base needs bash since they call on it17:27
tuxd3vbash its a login shell17:28
chillfanand also the login scripts are in bash17:28
tuxd3vdash doesn't allow you to login17:28
tuxd3vI think17:28
tuxd3vthat's the problem17:28
chillfanyou can login to dash it's just not very useful17:28
tuxd3vwhen you need to authenticate17:28
tuxd3vfor apt and so on17:28
chillfanwhat I mean is, it would be great if you could install busybox, ash, ksh, zsh, whatever you like and just remove bash but it's very difficult17:28
tuxd3vdash fails there17:28
tuxd3vI think bash is a standard, so many things rely on it..17:29
tuxd3vand its a more high level shell17:30
tuxd3vmore close to "humans.."17:30
tuxd3vso its easier to work with17:30
tuxd3vthan ksh or csh17:30
tuxd3vI like particularly ksh17:30
chillfanthat's fair enough, and I use bash daily I just think it's nice if it's not needed if you want a very small system17:30
tuxd3vbut they are diferent17:31
tuxd3vyou are talking about devuan in a busibox environment?17:31
tuxd3vwith ash17:32
tuxd3v?17:32
chillfanyeah or whatever the user wants17:32
chillfanI'm sure it's doable but not easy if you have apt installed17:32
tuxd3vI have mever tried that17:32
tuxd3vbut apt, will need authentication17:32
chillfanI think you can make just that with debootstrap17:33
tuxd3vand here starts the problem17:33
chillfanbut if you install apt it will stop you from proceeding without bash17:33
tuxd3vAbout debootstrap17:33
tuxd3vthat its the method I am using in Devuarm sdk17:33
chillfanlike every time you install or remove a package it will bring it back17:33
tuxd3vbut for embedded things17:34
chillfanor if you hold it, it will refuse17:34
tuxd3vwhat is calles Cross-Debootstrap17:34
chillfanbut you can still make a busybox env without apt.. just you won't be able to update packages17:34
tuxd3v*called*17:34
tuxd3vyeas17:34
tuxd3v*yes*17:34
tuxd3vyou will be without apt17:35
chillfanI'm not too much of an expert on it, I just found the bash situation frustrating17:35
* chillfan is very much a minimalist17:36
tuxd3vhehe17:37
tuxd3vits fine17:37
tuxd3vany one can use what they want too ;)17:37
tuxd3vI think bash its a good shell for the final user17:38
tuxd3vfor the rest, dash, is used17:38
chillfanoh yeah, good for default shell for GNU+Linux17:38
chillfanfamiliar, traditional, easy17:38
tuxd3vI think who pushed dash has a default system shell was Ubuntu, some years ago17:38
tuxd3vthen debian followed them..17:39
KatolaZtuxd3v: you are wrong17:39
KatolaZdash was written by devuan17:39
chillfandebian^17:40
KatolaZafter the project adopted the original Almqvuist shell17:40
KatolaZ(ASH)17:40
KatolaZdash is the default for all init scripts17:40
KatolaZand for all the system scripts in Debian17:40
chillfanyeah I believed so too, dash was a debian thing. It's a nice idea I think17:40
KatolaZDebian Almquist SHell17:40
KatolaZ:)17:40
chillfanlet the system scripts run in dash since it's quick and small footprint which is also a slight plus for security17:40
KatolaZ17:41 < KatolaZ> dash was written by devuan17:40
KatolaZ^^^^^^ sorry, I meant "by Debian" obviously17:41
KatolaZlapsus :P17:41
chillfanWell not a bad typo really.. our main idea is sed -i 's/debian/devuan/' anyway :)17:41
chillfanI try to think of it like I've been using Devuan for all these years now ;)17:42
tuxd3vHello katolaz17:42
tuxd3vkatolaz, I liked your presentation17:43
tuxd3v:)17:43
tuxd3vI don'tknow who wrote dash17:43
tuxd3vbut the first OS to use it I think was ubuntu17:43
tuxd3vhas the default shell17:43
KatolaZtuxd3v: thanks17:44
KatolaZdunno about ubuntu17:44
tuxd3vwell some 10 years ago17:44
tuxd3vor something like that17:44
KatolaZI lost it in 200517:44
tuxd3vBut I didn't remember who wrote it17:44
KatolaZ:)17:44
tuxd3vthanks for the refresh17:45
tuxd3v:)17:45
KatolaZhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almquist_shell <-17:45
EvilhamI think I remember that discussion and dash was the default on debian testing first, so yes, ubuntu was the first distro to have a "stable release" defaulting to dash :-p17:46
chillfanIn 1997 Herbert Xu ported ash from NetBSD to Debian Linux.17:46
KatolaZyep17:46
KatolaZAlmquist shell dates back to the early '80s IIRC17:47
KatolaZoh no I am wrong17:47
KatolaZWikipedia says late '80s17:47
Evilhamhuh, according to wikipedia it was Ubuntu17:47
chillfanwell it's first ported to debian17:47
chillfanubuntu being the downstream17:47
KatolaZhttps://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ash/17:47
chillfanI wish I could find the maintainers page now17:47
KatolaZhttps://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ash/ash.png17:48
tuxd3vDebian ported ash from BSD with some aditions17:48
KatolaZhttps://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dash17:48
tuxd3vUbuntu was the first to use it, 200617:48
tuxd3vgood...we are getting old..17:48
tuxd3v:(17:48
tuxd3v*good* -> god17:49
tuxd3vyou are right17:49
tuxd3vkatolaz17:49
tuxd3vdebian ported it and added some features that ash doesn't had17:49
KatolaZyes, we are getting old :)17:50
KatolaZs/old/gold ;)17:50
chillfanya I expect so, still.. matters more what dash does for us17:50
tuxd3vbut ubuntu looked into it, and found the exact match for a system shell17:50
tuxd3vso in 2006 the used it has /bin/sh17:50
KatolaZtuxd3v: as a matter of fact, dash is one of the few POSIX-compliant shells around17:51
KatolaZworking on setnet, I discovered what that means :)17:51
KatolaZmaking it compatible with all the currently-available shells was not trivial17:51
chillfanmakes me think of song by 'The Verve'17:51
chillfan"All this talk of getting old.." etc17:51
KatolaZ:D17:51
chillfanhttps://www.invidio.us/watch?v=bR8XH3R95xE17:52
KatolaZchillfan: what matters is how you feel17:52
KatolaZand I feel like a 17-years old :)17:52
chillfanhah, I feel like I just hit my 20s17:52
KatolaZwow mate, you are getting OLD :P17:52
chillfanhahaha17:52
KatolaZ:D17:52
tuxd3vwell, I cannot say the same17:52
tuxd3vhehehehe17:52
KatolaZtuxd3v: where are you then?17:52
tuxd3vI am already receiving some replacment parts17:53
tuxd3v:D17:53
tuxd3v*replacment*17:53
KatolaZoh tuxd3v, so getting rid of yuour milky teeth? :P17:53
chillfanThey need to hurry up with those experimental anti aging drugs..17:53
chillfanthat are said to show signs of reversing aging..17:53
tuxd3vheheh17:53
tuxd3vit was an accident17:54
ashleykchillfan, heh, not possible17:54
tuxd3vbut I think I have good chances to walk again17:54
tuxd3v:)17:54
KatolaZoh tuxd3v, sorry17:54
KatolaZdidn't mean to joke about that :\17:54
KatolaZhope you will be OK soon then17:54
chillfanashleyk: I don't recall the source, but I wasn't joking, I really read about this17:54
ashleykchillfan, fake news!17:54
tuxd3vkatolaz, thanks for that, I also hope too17:55
chillfancould be, but a drug that shows signs of reversing aging isn't the same as something you can say "this actually works and should be on shelves everywhere"17:55
tuxd3vwaiting surgery, but I think will develop well, radical sports..forget, never more :(17:55
furrywolfwhen they come up with replacement spines, let me know.  I am so sick of being useless.17:55
tuxd3vbut walking againt I have good chances17:55
chillfanso it's all moot unless something actually happens17:55
ashleykextend telomeres?17:56
ashleykfix mitochondria?17:56
ashleyklink please :P17:56
furrywolfI can walk.  I just can't pick anything up.17:56
chillfanyeah that's what I mean.. I don't have the source :p17:56
chillfanit was a while ago17:56
tuxd3v<furrywolf>, that is already a good thing :)17:57
tuxd3vI cannot walk, well barelly, some fits and then recover for some 2 hours of the pain17:57
chillfantuxd3v: fingers crossed for you with the op17:57
tuxd3vwith lots of druges17:57
furrywolffun.  what did you break?17:57
tuxd3vchillfan, yeah, I have mine crossed,  in the meantime I am puting my time on Devuarm sdk17:58
tuxd3v:)17:58
tuxd3vit will be for June/Jully17:59
tuxd3vnot in the winter, becasue of recovery17:59
tuxd3vworm is bether than could for that17:59
tuxd3vcold17:59
tuxd3vbut I could not ever do downhill18:00
tuxd3von my byke18:00
tuxd3vI loved the adrenaline of going down in dangerous places at full speed18:00
furrywolfah.  which was fun until it wasn't?  :P18:00
tuxd3vEven your blood, warms you18:00
tuxd3vits amazing18:01
tuxd3vthe adrenaline working18:01
tuxd3vin that moments you are very well alive18:01
tuxd3vbut sudenly...you know, what could hapen...and unfortunaly it happened18:01
chillfanThis is why I like physical exercise.. it can leave you feeling that way afterwards18:01
chillfanvery beneficial all round18:02
tuxd3vyes18:02
tuxd3vtrue18:02
furrywolfevery serious cyclist I know has been seriously injured at least once.  it seems like a very unwise activity.18:02
tuxd3vwell, loking now to the past18:03
tuxd3v...18:03
tuxd3vbut the feeling it gives up on that moment18:03
Evilhamfurrywolf: any living person I know has been seriously injured or ill at some point :-D, that also seems like a very unwise thing18:03
tuxd3vis something indescritible18:03
Evilhamdo get better, tuxd3v18:03
tuxd3vundescribable18:04
EvilhamKatolaZ: I learnt that my shell abilities were not POSIX when I used FreeBSD X'D18:04
KatolaZ:D18:04
furrywolfa friend's friend broke his collarbone, another has an ankle that's half titanium, etc etc...18:04
tuxd3v<furrywolf>, unfortunatly, I also receive some parts of that..18:05
tuxd3v:(18:05
tuxd3vyou know..18:05
tuxd3vmaking you feel alive too much ...can kill you18:05
tuxd3vthats a shame18:05
chillfanhahaha18:05
tuxd3vbecause the feeling you get, is beyond any words..18:06
chillfanThat's very apt maybe, which is the reason for laughter btw18:06
furrywolftry something safe, like heroin.  :)18:07
tuxd3vI don't know, but maybe I could to another type of radical sports18:07
tuxd3v:)18:07
tuxd3vI am already trying to fnd a substitute18:07
tuxd3v:)18:07
chillfan72 hour hackathon?18:07
chillfanwith no sleeps or caffeine..18:07
chillfanthat would be somewhat racidal18:07
chillfanradical^18:07
furrywolflol18:07
tuxd3vI have already done 72 hours18:08
tuxd3vthen sleep 618:08
tuxd3vwork18:08
tuxd3vsleep 618:08
tuxd3vthen 72 hours18:08
chillfanchess is a fantastic sport that provide a good feeling btw18:08
tuxd3v2 weeks18:08
tuxd3vbut that kils you18:09
furrywolfwhat you just said sounds very much like what two other groups of people I know have said...  heroin addicts, and bdsm subs.  maybe try the latter?  :)18:09
chillfanif it's your thing18:09
tuxd3vchess no radical enough18:09
tuxd3v:)18:09
KatolaZ18:10 < chillfan> chess is a fantastic sport that provide a good feeling btw18:09
KatolaZ^^^^^^18:10
tuxd3vdownhill18:10
KatolaZcould not agree more18:10
tuxd3vwas my sport18:10
KatolaZchess is awesome (if you have time and temper for it)18:10
chillfanI have competed, felt exhilarated every time18:10
* furrywolf does not have the temper for it18:10
KatolaZchillfan: glad to know you are into chess18:10
KatolaZ:)18:10
tuxd3vchess is nice18:10
tuxd3v:)18:10
chillfanKatolaZ: how are you rated?18:10
tuxd3vkitesurf18:10
furrywolfI've tried playing, and about five minutes later I go into "this is a total waste of time and energy, I should do something useful" mode, and stop caring.18:10
KatolaZlow :D18:11
tuxd3valso another thing I could not do anymore18:11
KatolaZaround 1700 FIDE18:11
chillfanaround average club level then, it's a great game though right?18:11
KatolaZI haven't played any tournament since 201218:11
KatolaZchillfan: where are you then?18:12
chillfanI haven't in 2 years, before that many years18:12
KatolaZ(yes, great game indeed :))18:12
tuxd3vI liked the most, when you had very speed winds, and its not proper for any kite type to be in the water or land18:12
chillfanrating wise? I think around 1900, was 2100 once.. didn't play long enough to know if I could stay there though18:12
furrywolfyou don't like my suggestion of trying being a sub?  I have friends who say it's the absolute best rush ever.  :P18:12
tuxd3vit was amazing, you flied a lot18:12
tuxd3vyou experienced tremendous amount of force pushing you18:12
KatolaZchillfan: 2100 is candidate master rating18:13
KatolaZnice :)18:13
tuxd3vspeeds that no one achive in a kitesurf, becasue its too much dangerous to go there with that type of winds..18:13
chillfanI was very pleased with that yes, can say it's the best I'd ever played during that time18:13
KatolaZbbl18:14
KatolaZthanks o/18:14
KatolaZ(and sorry for the OT!)18:15
chillfanlater KatolaZ, if you have a fics account we could play a few some time ;)18:15
tuxd3vhehe18:15
furrywolfI'll play if I'm really bored and you don't mind winning in three moves.  :P18:15
KatolaZchillfan: yes I do, and I should still be able to login there ;)18:15
tuxd3vdevuanchess party?18:16
tuxd3v:)18:16
furrywolf...  that's an actual k-line, not a /quit.  lol18:16
chillfanDo I sense devuan chess team on fics? ;-)18:18
* furrywolf has no idea what fics is18:19
tuxd3v<furrywolf>, I don't like drugs18:19
chillfansee freechess.org18:19
tuxd3vI am against them18:19
furrywolftuxd3v:  neither do I.18:19
tuxd3vI like to fel myself in control18:19
chillfanrequires a proper mail account though18:19
tuxd3vof situation18:19
chillfancan't sign up with webmail18:19
furrywolftuxd3v:  so being a sub is right up your alley?  :P18:19
tuxd3vradical sports gives you that option18:19
furrywolfI haven't played chess in like 20 years, and I was never any good.  I just didn't see the point in spending any time on it.18:20
chillfanIf you feel that way, then there usually isn't18:20
chillfana suitable analogy is like us who are tech geeks compared to people who use ICT as a way to post on their facebook wall18:21
chillfanwe love tech, so we work in it and play with it.. they love posting selfies18:21
furrywolflol18:22
chillfansame with chess, few minutes to pass some time on a rainy day.. or a deep passion for it18:22
furrywolfI've posted all of one selfie in 30ish years of being on the internet, and it was just a picture of my (clothed!) butt showing off a clip-on tail.18:22
chillfanyeah that sounds like a selfie18:23
chillfananyway freechess.org is worth remembering, most of the clients are free software unlike in others18:24
chillfanand the absolutely amazing https://stockfishchess.org/18:26
chillfanso we don't do bad for free software chess progs :p18:27
furrywolfthere's a lot of draconian crap on that signup form...  must provide real name, never allowed to change handle, never allowed to create a new account, must agree to etc etc etc.18:27
furrywolfall of which is 100% unenforcable.18:27
furrywolfbut it doesn't matter anyway, since the form doesn't seem to actually work.18:27
furrywolf(submitting it gives a gateway timeout a minute later)18:28
chillfanHm, really. When I signed up it was just required I didn't use web mail. I don't think it has my real name on it18:28
chillfanNot that I would give it to play a game of chess18:29
furrywolfmy real name is Fluffy Wolf.  :P18:29
furrywolf... you can't log in to the website in any fashion without java?18:30
furrywolfand it even says you should install sun java?18:31
furrywolforacle java18:31
furrywolfevery part of interacting with this website has been shit.18:31
furrywolfbetween the policies, timeouts, and now expecting me to install crapware?18:31
furrywolfwait, does firefox even support java anymore?  didn't the rewrite kill all netscape plugins?18:32
furrywolfyeah, no java possible in modern firefox.18:33
tuxd3vfurrywolf> fun.  what did you break?18:33
furrywolffuck this site.18:33
tuxd3vmy hip in the waist area18:34
tuxd3vbut I don't know yet full damages of it..18:35
tuxd3vI am waiting the final examns18:35
tuxd3vbefore operation18:35
furrywolfI mangled my T9-T10 in a car accident.  they say they can't operate on it unless it gets so bad I'm immobile, since being permanently crippled is a common outcome.18:37
tuxd3vlots of medical drugs in the meantime for the pain..18:37
tuxd3vbut the pain doesn't go way..18:37
tuxd3vits damm dificult18:37
tuxd3vbut I will eventually prevail18:37
tuxd3v:)18:37
tuxd3vI am sorry to hear that18:38
tuxd3vI also damage my spine, but not at that level18:39
tuxd3vyou can walk ok?18:39
tuxd3vduring how much time you can walk?18:39
tuxd3vthis shiit problem, stopped me to go to the Devuan Event :(18:40
furrywolfI can walk fine...  it's lifting and twisting that don't work.18:40
furrywolfand actually, you know, doing anything.  like working on cars or building stuff, which used to be my main hobbies...18:41
tuxd3vI think I will be in same situation , if everything goes well18:41
tuxd3vits not good, but, life can always be bad18:41
tuxd3vyeah, that costs a lot18:42
tuxd3vthings you love, and you will never be hable to do..18:42
tuxd3vI understand you very well..18:42
tuxd3vbut we need to think that, it could be worst...that are guys on a bed beging for mercy, to be able to die18:43
tuxd3vthat is a lot worst18:43
tuxd3vIf all goes well, I would feel myself a luck guy18:44
tuxd3vlucky18:44
tuxd3vthis is the way we should look at it..18:45
ashleyki eated a ham18:45
chillfanI'll take a ham18:50
* furrywolf accidentally a whole ham18:52
* Evilham hides under table18:54
ashleykfree ham under the table18:54
tuxd3vheheh18:56
tuxd3vyou guys are treating youselfs well18:56
tuxd3v:)18:56
* Evilham rolls away weighing 2kg less19:01
* chillfan takes ham from under the table19:36
ashleykthe free range ham rolled away19:46
ibanja_I'm experimenting with linux sound.  First I ditched pulse audio completely.  Then I replaced alsa with sndiod.  Everything is working really nicely except I cannot connect to jackd.21:08
ibanja_When I run "/usr/bin/jackd -r -dsndio -r48000 -p1024" I get jackd: unknown driver 'sndio' . sndio is listed as a jackd driver option in the jackd man page, but there is a disclamer that not all listed drivers are available on all platforms.21:08
ibanja_Is sndio not available to jackd in devuan? If so, can it be compiled in and how difficult is that?21:08
stiltrI don't know anything about jackd, but it looks like `jack_control dl` should list the available drivers. If it's not there you'll probably have to compile it yourself.21:12
stiltrSorry, just realized jack_control is a separate tool.21:13
ibanja_I was just about to say I don't see jack_control d21:14
stiltrI'd guess you'll have to compile it yourself if it's not seeing the sndio driver. Hopefully somebody that knows jack can give a better answer.21:17
ibanja_stiltr: do you know how inconvenient maintaining a package compiled from source is?21:17
ibanja_I haven't tried it yet21:17
stiltrIt depends on your environment. If it's just for one box, it's not a big deal. It won't automatically update, but other than that, it's usually just a `make && make install` sort of thing.21:20
ibanja_I'm reading up on apt-src... looks like I might be learning something new here...21:21
stiltrGood luck! = )21:24
MinceRis there sndiod for GNU/Linux?21:27
ibanja_there is... it's in the devuan repo21:28
ibanja_this is the link that introduced me to sndio for linux... https://escondida.tk/blargh/tech/sndio_on_linux/21:29
MinceRnice21:36
tuxd3vashleyk: What is the board that you have ported to Devuan?21:41
ashleyki wouldnt say "ported", but nanopc t421:41
ashleyki used sunxi rootfs21:42
ashleykmore or less21:42
tuxd3vwhat is the CPU there a h6?21:42
ashleykuh...rockchip21:42
tuxd3vthat is friendlyarm21:42
tuxd3v:)21:42
ashleykyes21:43
tuxd3vRK339921:43
ashleykyea21:43
tuxd3vlike the RockPRO6421:43
tuxd3v:)21:43
tuxd3vI would be glad to add it to the sdk21:45
tuxd3v:)21:45
tuxd3vWhen I start doing stuff for rockchip boards21:45
tuxd3v:)21:45
tuxd3vI am planning to add a initial menu21:46
tuxd3v0 arm21:46
tuxd3v1 mips21:46
tuxd3v3 something else21:46
tuxd3v:)21:46
tuxd3v0 -> 0 ARMV721:47
tuxd3v0 -> 1 ARMV821:47
tuxd3v0 -> ARMV8 -> Allwinner21:48
tuxd3vno wrong21:48
tuxd3v0 -> 0 Allwinner21:48
tuxd3v0 -> 1 Allwinner21:48
tuxd3v0 -> 1 RockChip21:48
tuxd3vand so on ..21:49
tuxd3v1 -> 0 BaikalElectronics21:50
tuxd3vand so on ..21:50
tuxd3vat the moment:22:03
tuxd3v"0"   "Build Devuan Release Image" \22:03
tuxd3v"1"   "Write Devuan to media-disk .." \22:03
tuxd3v"2"   "Download/Install CrossCompiler ToolChain .." \22:03
tuxd3v"3"   "Build Uboot" \22:03
tuxd3v"4"   "Build Linux Kernel & Modules" \22:03
tuxd3v"5"   "Update Uboot" \22:03
tuxd3v"6"   "Update kernel Image" \22:03
tuxd3v"7"   "Update Module" \22:03
tuxd3v"8"   "Updating GitHub SDK .." \22:03
tuxd3v"9"   "Updating SDK .." \22:03
tuxd3vbut this only for arm ...at least yet22:04
chillfanthat's a good start :)22:07
tuxd3vbut its not all yet working22:07
tuxd3vDownload/install toolchain in OK22:07
tuxd3vBuild uboot22:08
tuxd3vok22:08
tuxd3vBuild Kernel OK22:08
tuxd3v0 is working but semi-manuall lool22:08
tuxd3vnot yet completly finished22:09
tuxd3voption 1 needs some love because server images are too big now22:09
tuxd3v1.3GB of sdcard required..22:09
tuxd3vthe image is not that size ofcourse22:09
tuxd3vbut when created it creates it at that size..need bether calculations..22:10
tuxd3v5,6,7 is low priority for now22:10
tuxd3vwhen I think its relativly ready, I will publish it22:11
tuxd3v:)22:11
tuxd3vso that you guys can help on testing..22:12
tuxd3vyes?22:12
tuxd3v:)22:12
stiltrSounds good!22:25
tuxd3vthere are still some things here and there to fix, but it starts to take real shape22:26
tuxd3v:)22:26
tuxd3vthe interface22:26
tuxd3vis based on whiptail22:26
tuxd3vwhich alsi is the default on Devuan22:26
chillfanso advantage is the ease of use22:27
tuxd3vits automated22:27
tuxd3vyou only need to acept or reject options it will shows22:27
tuxd3vthere are 2 options for Devuan OS22:27
tuxd3vServer22:28
tuxd3vDesktop22:28
ErRandirLooks a bit like buildroot to me23:22
tuxd3vI never used buildroot23:32
tuxd3vbut I reached the web and it seems a nice thing23:32
tuxd3vbuildroot has lots of supported boards..23:37
tuxd3vfor what it seems its Makefile based and it has also yml23:37
tuxd3vand maybe to build auto-tools?23:38
tuxd3vlooking at it..I am a bit disapointed with my work :S23:45
tuxd3v:D23:45
tuxd3vbut it seems a bit desorganized23:45
tuxd3vwhat you guys think?23:45
tuxd3vMaybe I can get some ideias from it23:49
tuxd3vErRandir: thanks for the tip23:49
tuxd3v:)23:49

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