freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-04-11

watchcatthanks, this has been very entertaining.01:27
tuxd3vwatchat: thanks, for bringing some entertainment to us01:29
* gour is doing (last) backup before installing devuan on the desktop07:22
gourok, see you later, hopefully, from devuan07:35
gourhello from the devuan desktop!09:24
gourafter install, reboot went fine, but after upgrading to ceres, grub fails to install on my mbr09:24
gour(after i was installing latest kernel)09:25
gourhere is the error:
dethagg chome. "[27860:27860:0411/] Error: /etc/machine-id contains 32 characters (32 were expected)."09:45
gourwell, grub-install reports error, but machine still does boot09:49
Evilhamgour: I was gonna say open a bug report.... But BTS is doen :-D should be fixed, remember that will you?10:32
gourEvilham: ok, will do10:33
Centurion_Danthe bts system is not down... more likely an issue with report bug... iirc it will not accept http reports, only via smtp.10:36
gour i use clamav for claws and /etc/clamav/clamd.conf is installed with root:root, but it should probably be clamav:clamav or clamad:adm?10:38
xinomiloroot:root in /etc10:48
xinomiloclamav:clamav for /var/lib/clamav10:48
gourxinomilo: but freshclam.conf in /etc is clamav:clamav?11:04
gourxinomilo: ok, thank you. claws' plugin works now13:22
tuxd3vGood morning freedom lovers13:34
tuxd3vgour: o/13:42
tuxd3vhow are you going?13:42 an egyption (SCNR)13:43
gourtuxd3v: pretty good. restoring stuff from my backup, installing missing pkgs...13:49
tuxd3vgour: Nice to hear that things are going well ;)13:50
gourtuxd3v: thunar's automount works well and that's how i decided to leave systemd-OS :-)13:53
tuxd3vgour: yes indeed, I am glad you are succeding13:55
tuxd3vat beguining you feel yourself almost between 2 choices that you have to make..13:55
tuxd3vthen you realise the freedom you get back..13:55
tuxd3vvery nice! :)13:56
gourtuxd3v: i'm using linux since '99 and never felt well with systemd...just prior of arch's moving to systemd i left it13:56
gourhowever, dunno why i haven't installed devuan earlier :-(13:57
gourwas trying with free/pcbsd for some time, but had to leave few times...13:57
tuxd3vgour: I understand you, because changing a system is not a easy task, when you tweak any part of it, and you control your system..13:58
tuxd3vI think its a gradual change, until the point that you really feel the need to switch13:59
tuxd3vI think its almost the same with everybody out there13:59
tuxd3vI felt myself relieved after changing from Debian to Devuan14:00
tuxd3vsystemd is also not my thing..14:00
gouri also spent some time using gnome, although xfce was always my primary choice...didn't try KDE since 0.9x and then with opensuse tried Plasma for a few days only :-)14:00
surroundergour: never was a KDE fan either but I really have to admit, they did a great job with plasma 5 - it's memory usage is compareble to xfce these days14:01
gourin general, i appreciate simplicity as value in my life and systemd is just the opposite...something like pushing JS-crap on the desktop14:01
goursurrounder: i agree, but i'm using (neo/g)vim gnucash, claws...not much qt apps14:02
tuxd3vgour: You right, its the same for me14:02
surroundergour: same here, hardly any GUI apps at all in fact14:02
surrounderbut they really did a great job14:02
goursunshavi: i also like xfce's configurability...yeah,  KDE is doing nice things14:03
tuxd3vsurrounder: I never saw a kde release above kde2, using low resources of memory14:03
surroundertuxd3v: plasma 5.x really does, +/- 300 MB on my last install14:03
surroundercomparable with xfce on the same hardware14:04
tuxd3vsorrounder: My Desktop is xfce and around ~200MB Ram14:04
surroundernice :)14:05
tuxd3vand this because I have some extra plugins14:05
surrounderxfce is lovely14:05
tuxd3vyou need to choose your applications /plugins and so14:07
tuxd3vit will depend ofcourse from user to user, has anyone has its preferences..14:07
tuxd3vMaybe out there are someone using some ~180MB Ram14:07
tuxd3vbut I feel that around 200 is a nice start14:08
tuxd3valso I don't use thunderbird14:08
tuxd3vhas email client14:08
tuxd3vI use sylpheed14:09
surrounderneither, only graphical applications I use are firefox, geeqie and sometimes thunar ( usually terminal + mc though )14:09
tuxd3vwhich is text based only no html, emails, so its a tradeof14:09
surroundertuxd3v: html in email is horrible anyhow14:11
gourif i'd be the only user of my machine, then probably i could go along with i3, but considering that other family members occasionaly have a need for some browsing etc., then xfce is more adequate14:12
tuxd3vgour: I Agree xfce is more classic Desktop, any person can use its tools14:15
tuxd3vsurrounder: How do you compare  geeqie with Ristretto ?14:16
tuxd3v geeqi seems nice14:16
surrounderheh, I don't know Ristretto :)14:16
tuxd3ver,  geeqie14:16
tuxd3v geeqie has Linear RGB histogram, and Exif information..its the things I miss in Ristretto14:24
tuxd3vdon't know about its memory usage14:24
surroundernot shocking14:24
gouri'm trying with my nano-usb wifi adapter in case when something might be problemtic with ethernet, the dongle is realtek-based chipset using rtl8192 fw, but it cannot connect - i'm getting “aborting authentication by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING)" and found some posts ( saying the problem might be long interface names - i14:25
gourn my case wlx00e04c819215, so do you have any recommendation how to properly fix it?14:25
gouri'm trying with my nano-usb wifi adapter in case when something might be problemtic with ethernet, the dongle is realtek-based chipset using rtl8192 fw, but it cannot connect - i'm getting “aborting authentication by local choice (Reason: 3=DEAUTH_LEAVING)" and found some posts ( saying the problem might be long interface names - i14:32
gourn my case wlx00e04c819215, so do you have any recommendation how to properly fix it?14:32
tuxd3vgour: the simple way would be to disable eudev persistent names14:33
tuxd3vonly to verify14:33
tuxd3vthe thing we have done yesterday14:34
tuxd3vdisabling the dell persistent attempt for names used in systemd and also the eudev persistent names14:34
tuxd3vin that way you could test it if everything is working or not14:34
gouraha, net.ifnames=0 ?14:34
tuxd3vboth equal to zero14:35
gourok, have to do some household tasks, then i'll try and report back14:35
tuxd3v net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=014:35
tuxd3vonly to check, and then enabling only eudev persistent one14:36
tuxd3v net.ifnames=1 biosdevname=014:36
tuxd3vandcreating a eudev rule for it, so that it will have a small name14:36
gourok, eudev is completely new stuff for me, would have to do some reading14:37
tuxd3vno problem14:37
tuxd3vif you need help on that we can try to help :)14:38
tuxd3vIs there any rules to add a new package to Devuan?15:46
tuxd3vwhat are the pre-requisites15:46
tuxd3vI am thinking in adding libtekui15:47
tuxd3vits a library to create graphical stuff15:48
tuxd3vits very nice and powerfull15:48
tuxd3vdebian doesn't have it15:49
tuxd3vdevuan neither15:49
buZztuxd3v: seems pretty abandoned?15:53
buZzno dev for almost 5 years15:54
buZzoh, bit more on their repo, still not a lot15:54
dethathat is generally a good sign - stable library, with no feature creep16:24
buZzor no users ;)16:40
tuxd3vno tekUi has a iatus of about 4 ~5 years between releases16:44
tuxd3vits a very stable and powerfull framwork,16:45
tuxd3vvery small16:45
tuxd3vand complete16:45
tuxd3valso,  no dependencies16:45
tuxd3vwhich is very nice16:46
tuxd3vit was released a snapshot at request this year16:46
tuxd3vits the first one16:47
tuxd3vin the list16:47
tuxd3vits the counterpart for Lua, or C aplications, or C++16:47
tuxd3vyou can use it even with Pallene, or terra language16:48
toprohi there. I'm considering hosting a devuan mirror. is there some documentation on how to this the devuan way (I assume apt-mirror is not the way its meant to be)?16:49
tuxd3vmaybe even with Python, but here, I don't really know16:49
tuxd3vso lots of opportunity's for a lot of people out there( me included ), if they want to use it..16:50
tuxd3vsmall footprint16:50
tuxd3vI was thinking in packaging it16:51
tuxd3vbut don't really know, about the requirments to add it do devuan repos16:51
tuxd3vas a mantainer16:51
tuxd3vhas a package mantainer16:51
tuxd3vfreedom of choice16:52
tuxd3v<detha>, exactly, the framewaork is writen in ANSIC16:53
tuxd3vLua tools are very rigid in the way you program16:53
tuxd3vyou can even compile it for microcontrollers, with some efort16:54
tuxd3vany ANSIC compiler should be able to work eith it..16:54
tuxd3ver, eith -> with16:54
fsmithredtuxd3v, there's no solid procedure in place for getting a package into devuan repos16:55
fsmithredif you can clone a git repo to get the source, such that you get their full history, that's a good start16:55
fsmithredpackage it and let people know it's available16:55
fsmithredif there's enough interest and devs think it should be in the repo, it can get in16:56
xinomilotopro, package mirror:
xinomilorelease mirror :
tuxd3vfsmithred: thanks for your response16:58
tuxd3vfsmithred, ok, I will do that :)16:58
tuxd3vfsmithred: then I will let you know about it16:58
fsmithredone thing that's important is that you maintain it16:58
fsmithredover time16:58
fsmithredone-shot deals are not really helpful16:59
tuxd3vyes I understand that16:59
fsmithredjust had to say that 'cause some people come here and think we have a huge team of devs17:00
tuxd3vI understand17:00
tuxd3vAnd devuan using it, will help people working with it, to come to devuan too17:01
tuxd3vits a differentiation factor17:01
gourin the past i did submit few ebuilds for gentoo, pkgbuilds for arch, some tempaltes for voidlinux and created few rpms, but newer learned/mastered creating of *.deb packages. does devuan make it (possibly) easier to learn the art?17:01
nemoshoot. I was really hoping the MATE backport would have fixed power management, but no such luck ☹17:02
fsmithredgour, not really. There's d1h, which is a front-end for building from git, which helps a little17:02
fsmithredbut debian packaging is somewhat complicated17:03
fsmithredI certainly haven't mastered it17:03
fsmithredyet I do maintain a few packages17:03
gourok. if stay with devuan - and there is no reason not to - then it's maybe a time to learn a bit17:04
fsmithredif you just want to package something for yourself (like maybe to backport a newer version of something)...17:04
fsmithredit can be pretty easy17:04
gouri see17:04
fsmithreddepending on what the package is17:04
fsmithredit's also possible that I just think packaging is complicated because the debian documentation is complicated17:05
fsmithred(i.e. sucks in some ways)17:06
toproxinomilo: thanks a lot!17:06
xinomilonemo, only ascii package mate-power-manager from antofox repo works.17:06
fsmithredbe back in 10 min.17:07
xinomilolook for version 1.20.0-1+hezeh117:08
nemoxinomilo: oh. neat. thanks for suggestion17:30
nemoxinomilo: will there be any problems with the fact that I installed -t stable-backports mate ?18:14
nemo(hoping to finally fix battery state/suspend etc)18:14
xinomilono problem18:41
xinomilousing same version in beowulf/ceres18:42
nemoxinomilo: do you mind sharing the repo link? having a hard time locating it19:06
nemowhen searching for "antofox repo"19:06
xinomilotry: deb ascii main contrib non-free19:08
gouri'm trying to start e.g. taskd server for taskwarrior and get: Starting taskwarrior sync server: taskd/etc/init.d/taskd: 26: /etc/init.d/taskd: start-stop-daemon: not found19:29
gourwhat's wrong?19:29
gourthe service script does: . /lib/lsb/init-functions and the functions are there?19:32
gnarfacea bunch of shell script functions in some package you're missing19:32
gnarfaceyea probably19:32
gnarfacestart-stop-daemon is just a shell function19:32
gnarfacethere's a few of them, without them most the stock init scripts won't work19:33
gnarfacei'm surprised your system even booted19:33
gnarfacehow you could be missing this is an important question19:33
furrywolfbroken dpkg install?19:33
gourgnarface: here is the part of the script:
gourand i've /lib/lsb/init-functions, what's wrong?19:34
furrywolf/sbin not in path?  not running as root?19:34
gnarfaceoh i'm wrong19:34
gnarfaceactually it looks like start-stop-daemon is a binary now19:35
gnarfaceit should be in /sbin19:35
gnarfaceand yea it should be in the dpkg package19:35
furrywolfdid they remove it since systemd now does that too, and you have debian's package or something?19:37
gnarfacegour: was that a ceres install? i forget19:37
gnarfaceif it was ceres, it would not be unheard of for vandalism to have occurred19:39
furrywolfadd a line to the script to echo $PATH and ls -l /sbin/start-stop-daemon19:41
furrywolfbbl, time to do morning things19:42
gourgnarface: yes, ceres19:54
gouryes, /usr/sbin is nor in the $PATH, start-stop-daemon is in /sbin19:56
gnarfacegour: /usr/sbin and /sbin should both be in root's path19:58
furrywolfI don't know what path gets sent to init scripts21:13
furrywolfchecking a couple ones on my box, they seem to set the path themselves.21:13
furrywolf(from /etc/init.d/cups)21:13
furrywolfI'd suggest pasting that into the script and calling it good.  :)21:14
gourgnarface: that (adding PATH line into the script) helped21:31
furrywolf...  address you for my suggestion, then leave without saying thanks?  that's how to make sure I help the next person who comes along!21:34
gnarfacethat was a little weird but i don't think you're the one who was being tested there21:39
gouri'm experiencing some instability with slim - when i logout from xfce and want to xfce, it seems it does not like it, iow. it's not possible to re-login. tried to restart it from console, but no luck, so wonder what are your experiences with it and/or whether some other manager like lightdm would be better option?21:47
gnarfacei like xdm21:49
gnarfacei'm not sure it's a problem with slim though21:50
gnarfacethe release notes for ascii mention that slim needs consolekit, which is mutually exclusive with elogind, but both may get installed and sabotage each other and the login manager21:51
gnarfacefor ceres, i don't even know for sure if the patch to make that much works21:51
gourgnarface: does it mean it would be better to use Beowulf then?21:54
gnarfacegour: no21:58
ashleyki plug in ethernet, and it is up and transmitting / recieving packets, and dhclient is running, but it never gets an ip21:58
ashleykworks if its plugged in at boot...21:59
gnarfacegour: it means it would be better to make sure that you've tested my first assertion so i can give you further advice21:59
buZzashleyk: maybe it already had a connection over wifi so doesnt make a new one over ethernet?21:59
gnarfacegour: (note, i don't know if you tested that assertion because you didn't respond about it)21:59
gourgnarface: interface names?21:59
ashleykbuZz, i want it to use ethernet22:00
gnarfacegour: no.  make sure you have consolekit installed, and make sure you do not have elogind installed.22:00
buZzashleyk: i was trying to imagine a situation that could describe what you're seeing22:00
ashleykyes, it has a wireless connection22:00
ashleykbut i dont want to have to reboot to get an ethernet ip22:01
gourgnarface: both are installed22:01
buZzdisable the wireless connection then?22:01
gnarfaceashleyk:  you should just be able to restart the dhcp client22:01
ashleykthese are unattended devices22:01
buZzashleyk: ifdown wlan0; ifup eth0? :P22:01
ashleyki need it to be predictable22:01
buZzashleyk: well you'd attend them first to configure them to work how you want22:01
buZzyou can configure your interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces anyway, you could disable the wireless one there22:02
gnarfacegour: do you really need me to tell you to uninstall elogind?  i don't know if that will fix it i just know that it's known not to work in ascii if both are installed.
buZzunless you're using some other wifi manager22:02
gourgnarface: elogind is required for NM, so it looks i should (maybe) try with wicd instead?22:02
ashleykso im trying to get it to get an ethernet ip when i plug in the ethernet22:02
ashleykinstead of just transmitting and recieving packets but never getting an ip...i dont knwo what its sending22:03
gnarfacegour: either that, or try a login manager that works with elogind (they are listed in the release notes i just linked)22:03
ashleykwait, it got an ethernet ip, it just took MINUTES22:03
gnarfacegour: but then you'd have to uninstall consolekit22:03
gourgnarface: ok, so many things at once while i'm trying to reconsolidate after migration :-)22:04
gnarfacegour: you don't actually need the login manager at all.  that's only if you want a fancy graphical prompt.22:04
ashleykideally i could set it to disable the wireless when the ethernet is plugged in, and enable it when its unplugged22:05
ashleykbut that seems even more unpredictable and requires using Lennart Poettering unpredictable code22:06
ashleykadds 3 minutes to boot time also22:06
gnarfaceit shouldn't be doing that22:07
ashleykin my case thats 3 minutes of a completely black screen heh22:07
gnarfacecould be a problem with your dns or dhcp servers22:07
ashleykifplugd adds 3 minutes to boot time in all cases22:08
ashleykending with things being killed due to timeouts22:08
ashleykanyway, i guess this will work with wireless metric 200, and ethernet metric 10022:08
gourfor now, we've made taskwarrior working/syncing...22:10
Evilhamgour (#): how do you host your own tw server?22:27
EvilhamI haven't gotten around to doing that22:28
Evilham(I didn't mean to ask "how do you" but "do you")22:28
tuxd3vgour:"elogind is required for NM, so it looks i should (maybe) try with wicd instead?"22:28
tuxd3vyeah you should :)22:29
fsmithredashleyk, there's a patch for /etc/init.d/networking that might help. See this:
ashleykfsmithred, thanks23:18
ashleyki had to blindly guess every combination to find something that "works"23:19
ashleyki also was confused when wlan0 wouldnt come up at boot23:19
tuxd3v<ashleyk>, I don't hanny boot problems here23:22
gnarfacesomething is still wrong with your setup ashleyk23:22
gnarfaceis your /etc/hosts unpopulated or something?23:23
gnarfaceanother thing that can trigger hangs at boot is failing to have localhost defined there23:23
ashleykno, everything is stock23:23
gnarfacemake sure you have this line in /etc/hosts:
tuxd3v<ashleyk>, it could be related with Persisnt Names features??23:23
tuxd3vwe saw that yesterday, for 2 times..23:24
ashleyktuxd3v, no23:24
gnarfacei have seen long dhcp hangs caused by a slow/misbehaved wifi router's dhcp features, but it's just as often turned out to be a fundamental problem with dns combined with /etc/hosts missing the proper fallback info (which might be the case even in a stock install, depending on the choices you made)23:25
gnarface*far more often, i should say23:25
ashleykyeah i changed the lease time from 1 minute to 2880 minutes and at least the wifi doesnt get a new ip every minute, didnt see if ethernet gets one faster than earlier23:26
gnarfacethis line might be redundant: iface default inet dhcp23:27
gnarfacecould be causing eth0 to try to get dhcp twice in a row, i dunno23:27
ashleykthats there for wireless23:28
gnarfacehow come you have 3 lines for wireless then?23:28
tuxd3v<ashleyk>, I am testing something for you23:28
tuxd3vhold on23:28
gnarfaceunless you have 3 wifi devices, that shouldn't be the case23:28
ashleykit could be redundant i guess...23:31
gnarfacelook, maybe it's harmless, but when you have problems nobody else is having, we have to start with examining the things you're doing that nobody else is doing.23:32
ashleykwhat problem is that23:33
gnarfacethere's no way in hell a 3 minute boot time is normal23:33
gnarfacethat's just not how this works23:34
ashleykthat only happens with ifplugd installed23:34
ashleyktry it yourself23:34
ashleykinstall it, do dpkg-reconfigure ifplug23:34
gnarfaceyou should be looking at more like 15 seconds.23:34
ashleykleave the first one blank, and put eth0 in the second23:34
ashleykit does this on multiple distros23:34
ashleykits because lennart coded it23:35
gnarfacei'm not going to install ifplugd, i don't know what it is and i doubt you actually need it.  i think your diagnosis of the problem misses the mark in an important key way, but i'm not going to argue with you if you're satisfied with your own answer23:35
ashleykit is supposed to help with only one interface being active at a time23:36
ashleykso if you have a wireless dongle, you can plug it in, but it wont activate unless eth0 is unplugged, likewise plugging in eth0 disabled the dongle23:37
ashleykbut now i have onboard eth0 and wlan023:37
ashleyki was trying to still have only one interface active at a time, in this case, you plug in eth0 and it would disable the wifi23:38
ashleykbut its not so easy to get it to work properly across boots and across all combinations of possibilities23:38
ashleykso i will have to settle for using metrics23:38
gnarfacedid you remove "quiet" from your kernel command-line arguments so you could see what it's actually hanging on instead of just guessing while looking at a black screen?23:39
ashleykno, but i already know, having used ifplugd before :P23:39
ashleykas soon as you enable it, boot times go up23:39
ashleyk3 minutes+23:39
ashleykits really a piece of shit23:40
gnarfacei still think your configuration is missing something important23:40
gnarfaceit probably does not have to take 3 minutes23:40
gnarfaceeven lennart would lose patience23:40
tuxd3v<ashleyk>, I can only confirm partially23:41
tuxd3vedit /etc/default/grub23:42
tuxd3vGRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="net.ifnames=1 biosdevname=0"23:42
tuxd3vthen reboot23:42
tuxd3von reboot, with ifconfig loopback deasn't apear23:43
tuxd3vso to show interfaces23:43
tuxd3vip link show23:43
tuxd3vsee the names of the interfaces23:43
tuxd3vvi /etc/network/interfaces23:43
tuxd3v# The primary network interface23:44
tuxd3vallow-hotplug enp1s023:44
tuxd3viface enp1s0 inet dhcp023:44
tuxd3vif enp1s0, its your network card dev name23:44
tuxd3vthen conect23:44
tuxd3vI tested with wired ethernet and with WIFI23:44
ashleykgnarface, im sure he abandoned it and never confirmed there was any issue with it23:44
tuxd3vusing WPA223:44
ashleykanyway im not using ifplugd23:45
ashleykeverything works, it just takes eth0 a couple minutes to get an ip if i plug eth0 in AFTER booting23:45
tuxd3vBUT, no Hangs on REBOOT23:45
ashleyktakes almost long enough that you think it isnt working23:46
tuxd3vblazing fast to start23:46
tuxd3vor to boot up23:46
ashleyki have to figure out how to remove quiet mode from rk3399 boot23:46
ashleykjust to have it23:47
tuxd3vWhait that is another problem that you are reporting23:47
ashleykits not a problem23:47
ashleyki just didnt modify kernel params23:47
tuxd3vI have both Ethernet and WIFI working23:48
tuxd3vno problems no hanging on REBOOT or BOOT23:48
ashleykooh, i can make a boot animation instead of just a logo23:49

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