libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-04-15

Burekdoes steam work in devuan?00:10
ashleyk_Burek, probably00:13
ashleyk_Burek, why wouldnt it00:13
Bureksomeone told me steam requires some systemd bs in order to work properly00:15
ashleyk_did you confirm?00:15
Bureknot really, hence me asking00:15
Burekactually i read it on artix forums00:16
Burekarch without systemd basically00:16
gnarfaceBurek: it needs systemd for very little.  you can get by00:16
ashleyk_id be suprised if it needed it at all00:17
Burekhttps://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,604.0.html00:17
Burekdbus apparently00:17
Burek:thonk:00:17
ashleyk_udev?00:18
gnarfaceit depends on steam for permissions, but you can fix them up manually in most cases, with some environment variables and udev customizations00:18
gnarfaceit depends on pulseaudio for streaming00:18
ashleyk_lol00:18
gnarfacebut you can simulate that with netcat :-p00:18
gnarfaceit just needs permissions for gamepads, and the steam controller00:19
Burekso, it's kinda like too much work huh00:19
ashleyk_its probably easy00:19
gnarfacedepends on how much you hate systemd, really00:19
ashleyk_but its steam, so is it worth it?00:19
Burekyes lol00:20
BurekGaben is my Lord00:20
ashleyk_what is a gaben00:20
BurekGabe Newell, the guy behind steam00:21
gnarface(*depends on systemd for permissions, i meant to type up there, obviously)00:21
Burekor as gamers call him Gaben00:21
gnarfacethere is a steam package in non-free00:21
gnarfaceuse that00:21
Burekhttps://knowyourmeme.com/memes/gaben00:21
gnarfaceand make sure if you have nvidia hardware, you get the backports drivers00:21
Burekgpu drivers for my thinkpad are already in the kernel, so i'm not really worried about that00:22
gnarfaceyou might still need the backports mesa for intel/amd, for some games00:22
ashleyk_does steam have any good games00:22
Bureki do light gaming on this laptop, PC runs another distro00:22
Bureki mean, it has like 5000 linux games atm00:22
gnarfacesteam has a TON of games00:22
Burekfrom big titles to indie ones00:22
specingSteam has lots of steam00:23
Burekit's literally _THE_ gaming platform00:23
specingbut is low on freedom00:23
gnarfaceit is very low on freedom :(00:23
gnarfaceand it might very well be quite evil00:24
specingThere are tons of good foss games00:24
gnarfacehowever, not all of the games sold through it require it to run, and not all of them have DRM either00:24
specingyou should be ashamed of yourself if you use steam00:24
Burekxd00:24
gnarfacei am ashamed of myself for it00:24
ashleyk_i only play openarena00:24
gnarfacei'm more ashamed of battle.net though :-P00:24
specingI'm involved in a foss game's management and we get virtually no players, only 2-3 per year00:24
Bureki wonder why00:25
jellythere are literally no A level games at all00:25
specingit is very hard to get players (we are not on steam)00:25
jellythat are open source00:25
jellylet alone free software00:25
ashleyk_openarena is oss00:25
specingWhat is "A level"?00:25
ashleyk_:D00:25
gnarfaceioquake3 is good though00:25
specingquake is very bad00:25
ashleyk_never tried it00:25
specingthere are a lot of FOSS games that are much better than openarena&friends00:26
MinceRxonotic > *00:26
specingboth visually and content-vise00:26
specingMinceR: xonotic is rather bad, only its vehicle part and freezetag (that noone plays) are good00:26
ashleyk_without quake the world woudl be a very different place00:26
specingMinceR: and "good"00:26
jellysorry, AAA00:26
MinceRyeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.00:27
MinceRthen again, maybe you played on jeff's servers, those are crap00:27
specingI am also very sad that when you ask people why they don't play FOSS games, they tell you that openarena is the best there is00:27
specingit just shows their steam-head ignorance00:27
specingbut the fault also lies on FOSS games, NIH is high instead of joining forces for a common platform00:28
jellyyou sure won't get more by alienating users00:28
MinceRactually there's a lot of joining forces in a game like xonotic00:28
specingwell, I'm not getting any users to alienate in the first place00:28
MinceRthe engine is shared with other games00:28
ashleyk_lol openarena is the best00:28
gnarfaceif you want foss games just search the repo for games...00:28
MinceRthere are official mods00:28
MinceRthere is a ton of modding going on so the same game can be used in multiple ways00:28
Burekyou want good foss game? https://crawl.develz.org/00:28
MinceRand FOSS games often share assets00:28
ashleyk_Burek, do you actually play that00:29
Xenguy MinceR Love the Lebowski00:29
Bureki do00:29
Bureki love me some rogue-like/lites00:30
MinceR:)00:30
Burekand that one is in my top 5 ^^00:30
ashleyk_i played nethack until they ruined it00:30
Burekim too stupid for ascii roguelites/likes00:30
Burek:(00:30
specingWhat I miss in nethack is multiplayer00:30
ashleyk_the only multiplayer is the bones files00:31
specingI don't enjoy singleplayer games at all00:31
Bureki know a roguelike mmo game00:32
Bureklemme find it00:32
ashleyk_http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org00:33
Burekhttps://cataclysmdda.org/00:34
ashleyk_i think maybe angband was too00:34
Bureki really need to get into roguelikes/lites more, again00:35
Burekthen again i did buy one the other day :)00:35
Burekhttp://www.tangledeep.com/00:36
specingBurek: is it FOSS?00:36
Burekno00:36
specingShame on you00:36
Burekno00:36
ashleyk_who pays for games00:36
Bureki like supporting indie devs. they don't have to be all FOSS00:37
specingyour collective actions today mean that in the future, your children will not be able to play multiplayer FOSS games - because there will be no players and consequently, no developers working on them.00:38
specingPlayer counts are declining nearly all over the foss multiplayer gaming world00:38
ashleyk_iqs are declining faster00:39
* Evilham spends more money on games than time playing00:40
Xenguypresidents have become moronic00:40
EvilhamSpecially if they support anything other than android, windows and mac/iOS00:40
MinceRpeople in general have become moronic00:40
ashleyk_Xenguy, at least the president is american again00:41
XenguyThat he is00:41
jellyspecing: I suspect that's because not many FOSS games have a working business model00:42
MinceRthey don't need one00:42
MinceRthe point is not making money, it's having fun00:43
jellythe point is also being able to support yourself00:43
jellyand your family00:43
ashleyk_thats a bad idea00:43
ashleyk_take care of the basics before you decide you want to make an OSS game00:44
specingFOSS games are generally developed in people's free time00:44
specingin the game I play, all players are developers00:44
MinceRwell, we have the choice between games that are made to be free and fun and games that are made to drive sales of microtransactions, DLCs and lootbox bullshit00:44
MinceRi've made my choice :>00:44
jellyI'd vastly prefer being paid doing what I love than doing something I hate and making what I love in the precious little free time00:44
Burekgeneralizing. only AAA titles have those. not indie games MinceR00:44
MinceRi'm also not a fan of DRM00:44
ashleyk_jelly, then make a game based on a ponzi scheme and blockchain00:45
ashleyk_:D00:45
MinceR:>00:45
jellyashleyk_: we seem to have almost diametrically opposite ideas of fun!00:46
ashleyk_if you want to make money while having fun, then you have to figure that out00:47
MinceRit's a pity adapting software to make it possible to sell licenses for it also makes it less useful00:47
MinceRthe harder one tries to drive a profit, the worse it gets00:47
ashleyk_the future (imo) is real world games00:48
MinceRGlobal Thermonuclear War!00:49
ashleyk_though, have to make it doable from home too00:49
ashleyk_not just pokemon go00:49
ashleyk_but like AR/VR and gps00:49
MinceRscan real world places with drones and play FPS-es in them?00:49
ashleyk_when i was in junior high we made quake maps of the school and went in guns blazing00:50
ashleyk_maybe get arrested for that now :D00:50
MinceR:>00:50
ashleyk_why are there 300 ogres!00:51
MinceR*bang* 29900:51
ashleyk_and even more zombies00:51
tuxd3vHello all01:37
tuxd3vo701:37
Zhuangzi-Taohelllo01:39
MinceRhay01:41
Zhuangzi-Taoquiet today.  :)01:42
XenguyThe sound of the rain on the roof is wonderful01:43
ashleyk_"The taste of soy in my latte is wonderful" ftfy01:43
ashleyk_:D01:43
Xenguyheh01:43
XenguyChuangTzu Are you a butterfly?01:44
Zhuangzi-TaoAh, or a man dreaming of one.  ;)01:45
golinuxYes.  He keep morphing01:45
golinuxkeeps01:45
tuxd3vI need some help chosing the best colors for some menus ..01:45
tuxd3v:(01:45
ashleyk_hotdog stand color scheme01:46
tuxd3vhttp://i.imgur.com/1rnjm7v.png01:46
tuxd3vchoosing bether colors that stays fidel to Devuan01:47
tuxd3vI am trying to base it in :01:47
tuxd3vhttps://dev1galaxy.org01:47
tuxd3vdon't know if invert magenta with grey dark..01:50
tuxd3vwhat would for you be better01:51
Zhuangzi-Taoits a good start tux01:51
tuxd3vmagenta in background01:51
tuxd3vand gry dark inside box01:51
tuxd3vor Grey dark in background01:51
tuxd3vand magenta inside the box01:51
tuxd3v?01:51
tuxd3viventerting both colors01:52
tuxd3vinverting01:52
Zhuangzi-TaoI like it how it is, but then again I like boxes being darker.01:52
ashleyk_tuxd3v, does this work with parazyd's libdevuan01:53
ashleyk_or w/e it is01:53
tuxd3vfor now, it doesn't01:54
ashleyk_i mean, theres already a way to build images01:54
tuxd3valmost, for one Board, but then I realized ...01:54
tuxd3vAfter seeing the work the guys of 'buildroot'01:54
tuxd3vput into it..01:54
tuxd3vI understood that, I needed a Backed designed with simplicity in mind, but at same time, fullfilling diferent archs/hardware/verdors01:55
tuxd3vwhich already exists in 'buildroot'01:56
tuxd3vbut In my opinion they build it on a contrary way01:56
tuxd3vawkward01:56
ashleyk_who is your intended audience for this software01:57
tuxd3vThey start by asking zillions of questions01:57
tuxd3vthen in the end you build01:57
tuxd3vI decided to do the inverse01:57
tuxd3vstarting by basic questions01:57
tuxd3vlike01:57
tuxd3varch01:57
tuxd3varm,mips,etc01:57
tuxd3vthen vendors01:57
tuxd3vAllwinner01:57
tuxd3vrockchip,01:57
tuxd3vthen CPU01:57
tuxd3vh3,H5,H6,01:58
tuxd3vrk339901:58
tuxd3vand only then Boards01:58
tuxd3vRockpro6401:58
tuxd3vpineh6401:58
tuxd3vorangepi one plus01:58
tuxd3vOrangepi 301:58
tuxd3vand so on01:58
tuxd3vSo this information his in my backed01:58
tuxd3vthat I am now producing01:59
tuxd3v, with almost finished work for the logic/workflow of it01:59
tuxd3vSo I am not going to do my Backend in Makefile02:00
tuxd3v..02:00
ashleyk_but why a gui02:00
tuxd3vI love M;akefile02:00
ashleyk_why does it need a gui02:00
tuxd3vbut all of this in a Makefile...crazy, I am doing it in Lua Tables02:00
tuxd3vOrganized..02:00
tuxd3vSome sort of JSON02:00
tuxd3vIts more pratical, and for people that doesn't understand much02:01
tuxd3vI think its better02:01
tuxd3vA taste of the backend:02:01
ashleyk_are there a lot of people that want devuan but dont know a lot?02:02
ashleyk_and cant use the embedded images from the server?02:02
tuxd3vhttp://i.imgur.com/1G1Lrhh.png02:02
tuxd3vThe problem is that there are a lot of boards not supported yet02:03
tuxd3vin the server02:06
tuxd3vAnd this option is to cover that Boards02:07
tuxd3vAn example?02:07
tuxd3vBoards with octacore nexel cpus02:07
golinuxAll this is a bit OT.  Not really Devuan support.  Might be better to head to #debianfork02:07
golinuxNot good to stuff the logs with "stuff" that folks have to wade through.02:08
tuxd3vI was asking for help with colors for the menus02:08
tuxd3vto stay fidel to Devuan02:09
golinuxThat is not a technical Devuan question.02:09
jellygolinux: is this a technical-only channel?02:10
XenguyIntended as such, AFAIK02:10
golinuxIt's a technical support channel to get Devuan working.02:10
Xenguy#debianfork is freely OT, which is nice02:10
golinuxThis ^^^02:11
tuxd3vI am sorry for the trouble..02:12
XenguyNo worries02:12
Zhuangzi-TaoJust learned something new.  :)02:13
tuxd3vme too :)02:18
ashleyk_now lets talk about why openarena is the best foss game02:22
ashleyk_again02:22
ashleyk_lol02:22
specingOA is awful02:22
ashleyk_LOL02:22
specingUnvanquished is probably the best FOSS shooter - no players of course02:23
ashleyk_its got its own community and culture02:23
ashleyk_unvanquished is just wolf ET?02:23
specingno?02:24
specingalso totaly forgot wolf ET, that game is great02:24
ashleyk_oh, smokin guns right?02:24
golinuxPlease take OT to #debianfork02:24
specingbut unfortunately wolf ET is a security nightmare and not going anywhere02:24
golinuxThis is a support channel02:24
jellygolinux: you might want to s/discussion/support/ in the topic, make it clear if you're going to enforce it02:25
ashleyk_who is going to read these logs besides spies for lennart02:26
specinggolinux is going to gohammer us02:26
fsmithreddevs read it02:26
golinuxAnd it's a pain to have to slog though irrelevant chatter02:27
tuxd3vfsmuthred, Was exactly becasue of that that I put my questions here...02:27
tuxd3ver, becasue02:27
tuxd3vnever mind02:27
gnarfacejust try to keep the editorializing in the other channel02:28
gnarfaceand try to use less newlines02:28
ashleyk_or just only join if you have a support question02:28
ashleyk_or are waiting for someone to ask a question so you can help...02:29
fsmithredfor more in-depth talk about embedded stuff there's an arm channel (#devuan-arm?)02:29
gnarfaceyes, it's #devuan-arm02:29
tuxd3vfsmithred,gnarface:02:30
tuxd3vHave you guys saw that #devuan-arm ...02:31
tuxd3vOnly has a penguin there...02:31
tuxd3vme?02:31
ashleyk_no, its you and me02:31
tuxd3vsorry you are not there02:32
ashleyk_and gnarface and parazyd02:32
tuxd3v:)02:32
tuxd3vno I am the only one there02:32
ashleyk_#devuan-arm02:32
gnarfacecould be some net split problem i think, but double-check your spelling tuxd3v02:32
fsmithredI see a big list of names there (big ~ 20)02:33
tuxd3vI typed "#devun-arm"02:33
tuxd3vmy mistake02:33
fsmithredmaybe that's French02:33
golinuxI think you have to be subscribed to join #devuan-arm02:38
golinuxPing parazyd02:39
ashleyk_no, theres no problem02:39
fsmithredI got in ok and saw that tuxd3v entered02:39
golinuxIt was locked during the spam blitz02:40
golinuxBath time for me02:40
fsmithredenjoy it02:40
ephemer0l_https://twitter.com/MashiRafael/status/111633441509602508908:56
* enyc meows14:27
telmichkjg: welcome!15:46
jingukhello15:50
telmichjinguk: you might also be interested in #devuan-dev15:52
jingukhello15:54
jingukDoes anyone know where ascii-backports is?15:56
jingukE: The repository 'http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports Release' does not have a Release file.15:56
furrywolfdeb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib non-free15:59
furrywolfdeb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib non-free15:59
fsmithredjinguk, try deb.devuan.org instead of auto.mirror.devuan.org15:59
fsmithredfurrywolf types faster15:59
furrywolffurrywolf copy+pastes quickly.  :P15:59
fsmithreddidn't you have to type "cat /etc/apt/so"?16:00
fsmithredTAB16:00
furrywolfyes16:00
fsmithredjust think, in a few years we can have brain implants so we don't have to type16:00
fsmithredI can't wait16:00
fsmithredbrb, need coffee16:01
jinguki got this message.16:05
jingukE: The repository 'http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports Release' does not have a Release file.16:05
furrywolf...16:07
furrywolffuck off and die?16:07
telmichfurrywolf: what is wrong with you?16:10
furrywolfI answer someone's question, and they just repeat it?16:10
furrywolfwhy bother asking if you're not going to read the responses and just ask again?16:11
telmichfurrywolf: I'd assume a "I answered above, please check" would have done it16:11
furrywolfyou might assume wrong.  :)16:12
jinguki changed source.list.16:12
fsmithredrun apt update after changing sources.list16:17
jingukyes, i ran apt update after changgin sources.list.16:19
jingukbut i got a message16:19
jingukE: The repository 'http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports Release' does not have a Release file16:19
golinuxHi jinguk!  Nice to see you here.16:31
jinguknice to see you, tto16:31
jinguknice to see you, too16:31
golinuxHi to telmich too!16:33
jinguki solved it. i removed files in source.list.d16:33
golinuxYeah.  "stuff" in there can cause problems.16:36
jingukthank you, furrywolf16:38
jingukthank you, fsmithred16:38
Evilhamjinguk: :-D18:00
Evilhamgood to see you around!18:00
Evilhamjust FYI: you should probably update the opennebula images, so that they use deb.devuan.org as mirror by default18:00
Evilhamor even better: you can use https://mirror.datacenterlight.ch/mirror/devuan/18:01
Evilhamsince that's right there in your infra18:01

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