freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-04-30

OneManHateGroupIt gets all the way up to starting X and then goes blank00:05
OneManHateGroupThe livesub starts and works with "nomodeset" boot option00:06
ServiceRobotello ello09:24
MinceRi09:29
ServiceRoboti?09:29
MinceR"hi" without the 'h'09:32
ServiceRobotah, I see. I must be getting old, lingo is getting shorter and shorter these days09:32
MinceR:>09:32
MinceRyou started it :>09:32
ServiceRobotyeah, well I'm about to start something else...09:32
ServiceRobota conversation09:33
ServiceRobotI can't find any updates on the current status of devuan. I've been following the mailing list but it's a bit of a mess to figure out where this distro is going09:34
ServiceRobotI've been using it for quite a while now, and I'm holding out hope more init systems will get better support, even if putting that support would screw up "muh backwards compatibility"09:35
MinceR¯\_(ツ)_/¯09:37
ServiceRobotif you want me to be honest, if you really want this to set itself as different to debian's way of doing things, you got to get a bit dirty. and by that I mean make init systems interchangable09:37
MinceRthat's probably already a given09:38
ServiceRobotbut from what I can gather, it's debian but with sysvinit installed by default with certain blacklisted systemd packages09:38
MinceRsome of them are even packaged, afaik09:38
MinceRthey may not have scripts/whatever for many packaged services, though09:38
EvilhamYou can also pick OpenRC at install time09:38
ServiceRobotthat's a biggy I want to help improve09:38
EvilhamBut you are rught that more work has to be done there09:39
ServiceRobotin any case, onto my question. has beowulf improved AT ALL this year?09:39
ServiceRobotascii is too old for me09:39
EvilhamI use beowulf on anything new and have migrated a couple things to it as well09:40
EvilhamSo, yeah, it's quite alright09:41
ServiceRobotwell, with beowulf comes the introduction to things like openrc-init and runit-init. I want to replace sysvinit completely09:41
ServiceRobotand I mean tear sysvinit out09:41
ServiceRobotnot leave crap packages behind that are needed as "studs" or whatever you call it09:41
Evilham:-D it's one of those things, it requires work, doesn't mean it's not desired just hasn't been done to that extent09:42
ServiceRobotbut has it been in the works, put on the backburner, or at the very least been talked about at all?09:43
EvilhamYup09:43
EvilhamThere were also 2 talks about s6 on dev1-conf09:44
ServiceRobotwell, what was discussed, agreed upon, etc? or are we stuck in limbo? ah okay09:44
* redrick has nothing against studs, but suspect you mean stubs.09:44
ServiceRobotyeah, stubs09:44
ServiceRobotmy bad09:44
Evilhams6 looks promising :-)09:44
EvilhamBut that requires a lot of work09:44
redrickNo, don't apologise.  It added a deliciously surreal tinge to my evening.09:44
ServiceRobotI tried s6 once. didn't like it. I rather use something a bit simpler like runit09:45
ServiceRobotbut runit support in debian is.... well runit-init support at the least, is awful09:45
ServiceRobotalso in devuan as well since it uses the same setup09:45
EvilhamSo far, I do too, but then I use sysvijit for init and runit for services09:45
ServiceRobotI don't like halfing the work like that. runit or nothing for me09:46
EvilhamYsah, tbf I don't think it's possible to make runit a very awesome *init*09:46
ServiceRobot I did get it to work without sysvinit scripts though09:46
EvilhamIt is a very awesome service manager and09:46
ServiceRobotbut the dependencies prevent me from removing it09:46
EvilhamNot saying it's not doable09:46
ServiceRobotwhich is what needs to be worked on the most I think. making it so I can remove core init packages like sysv-rc, sysvinit-utils, etc09:47
ServiceRobotand just use runit instead09:47
ServiceRobotand I'm saying this after I've tinked with devuan for a couple months09:47
Evilham:-D sure, but someone has to do al that work so you still have a bootable and usable system09:48
EvilhamAnd so far there have been more urgent matters09:48
ServiceRobotsure sure. getting it bootable wasn't the easiest task, since testing it is such a pain09:48
ServiceRobotwhat are the current urgent matters?09:48
EvilhamThen you'd understand why there is some reticence to make it an option: people will expectbit to work awesomely out of the box09:49
ServiceRobotwell I'm not asking all the work done for me. I just think modularity is very important if we're going for init freedom09:50
EvilhamSo: you are right, the state of that is not what it "should". But also: it is something that is desired to accomplish09:50
EvilhamIt just hasn't gotten there yet09:50
ServiceRobotbut that brings up the question: what are the current roadblocks before init is worked on?09:50
ServiceRobotwhere are we currently, what needs to be done before we can get there, etc?09:51
EvilhamThere was a thread a couple months ago about runit specifically on the ML, look for the archive09:51
ServiceRobotI think I started that thread actually09:52
ServiceRobotand read the responses09:52
EvilhamAnd before that other things have to be done/figured out09:52
ServiceRobotit didn't go further after that09:52
ServiceRobotI'm curious to know exactly what these "things" are. a roadmap of sorts09:53
Evilham:-D why don't you come back to this in about a week?09:54
EvilhamPlease do, really :-)09:54
ServiceRobotcome back to what?09:55
EvilhamTo this exact conversation09:55
ServiceRobotwhy in a week?09:55
EvilhamBecause it's not too much time that it can't wait, yet enough for other matters to be figured out and this to make more sense09:59
ServiceRobothuh, this must be a busy week then09:59
ServiceRobotso I guess next tuesday then?10:00
EvilhamYup10:01
jiefkHum... I updated my laptop with ASCII and Beowulf in sources.list. Now I can't get sddm, not lightdm to start (I installed task-kde-desktop metapackage).19:29
gnarfacewhy would you do that?19:30
jiefkFor minimalism, I installed fluxbox also and tried startx startfluxbox, and got some strange error :19:30
gnarfacewhy would you use both repos?19:30
gnarfacethey're not meant to be mixed and matched19:31
gnarfaceit's supposed to be a one or the other type of thing19:31
jiefkWell I don't know actually. I was under the impression that one could complete the other (especially when Beowulf was very young)19:32
jiefkI'll tri to comment ascii then, thanks :)19:32
jiefktry*19:32
gnarfacethere might have been a situation earlier where some needed patches had only been pressed into ascii but that should be considered an anomalous situation, not expected behavior19:33
jiefkI just tried to apt update/upgrade/dist-upgrade, no packages were added nor removed.19:34
gnarfacein general you should use ascii, then only mix in some newer packages from ascii-backports as necessary.  beowulf is only advised if you're interested in contributing to testing19:35
gnarfacethat said, the issue you're having in beowulf might be fixable by manually adding or removing the right packages19:37
gnarfacei couldn't tell you off the top of my head which ones, but make sure that you're not holding both those permissions backend packages (consolekit/elogind?) that are mentioned in the ascii release notes as mutually exclusive19:38
jiefkWell I'll check that, thanks19:38
jiefkCan someone help me please ? I have no more screen on the laptop. My laptop (on Beowulf) starts fine until -supposely- X starts21:49
jiefkFrom then the screen turn off (not even backlight is on)21:49
jiefkI still can login via SSH21:49
gnarfacepastebin xorg log?21:50
gnarfaceor, just try it without compositing first21:50
jiefkEven on Recovery mode, i have no access to TTY21:50
jiefkI'll try to get a Xorg.log21:50
gnarfacethere could be a lot of things causing it, but usually it is some sort of driver issue21:53
jiefkhttps://privatebin.net/?c7fb0128ffd6434b#OeOM2866+iZPDD8zz3bWlJzIh12odpPAhllwVVPFNDw=21:53
jiefk^ Xorg.0.log21:54
gnarfaceuh, could you use paste.debian.net please? i hate having to risk attaching to a new domain every time i want to help someone new21:54
jiefkok, I'll upload it there :)21:54
gnarfacethere's no ads on paste.debian.net21:54
debdogdo you by chance have a monitor at hand? jiefk. if so, do you see something if you plug it in?21:55
jiefkan no sorry debdog I have no monitor at hand. :/21:56
jiefkhttp://paste.debian.net/1080935/21:57
jiefk^ gnarface21:57
gnarfacejiefk: yea, it's using the wrong driver21:58
jiefkdebdog: if I find a VGA cable, I might be able to connect to another screen by tomorrow :)21:58
gnarfacejiefk: you might have other problems too, but you're not gonna get to the bottom of them while you're using that driver21:58
jiefkgnarface: which line ? for the wrong driver ?21:59
gnarfacejiefk: pretty much every line matching the substring "modeset(0)"22:00
gnarfacejiefk: that's a generic driver, a sorta new one.22:00
gnarfacethis line here might be the smoking gun: [   878.661] (EE) modeset(0): failed to set mode: Invalid argument22:01
gnarfaceit's your only error, basically telling you it couldn't find a valid resolution22:01
gnarfaceeverything else seemed to work right22:01
gnarfaceup to that point22:01
jiefkBefore it happens, I remember having installed installed elogind, this action removed libsystemd0 I think ... Is there some king of consequence ?22:02
gnarfacei just happen to know that this driver also doesn't belong to any specific hardware.  you most likely want to force it to try the intel or nouveau driver instead, whichever is appropriate for your hardware22:02
gnarfaceload the right driver first, then we'll see about possible permissions problems.  elogind shouldn't be relevant to running xorg with startx though, i thought that was just for graphical logins22:04
gnarfacei've seen it cause a red herring that looks something like this, but that also amounts to it basically loading the wrong driver22:05
gnarfacethis was beowulf, right jiefk?22:05
jiefkgnarface yes beowulf22:06
gnarfaceyea, force it to use the right driver first.  there's too many unanswered questions without that.22:06
jiefkgnarface: here is the output of `X -configure`22:06
jiefkhttp://paste.debian.net/1080938/22:06
gnarfaceit thinks you should use the intel driver.  i trust it.22:07
* debdog is astonished that actually created a .conf file22:07
jiefkyes, IIRC, it's a i915 chipset22:07
gnarfaceyou'll probably also want to make sure you've got mesa installed22:08
gnarfaceand maybe some libva packages too, for video acceleration22:08
gnarfacehowever this should work even without those things as long as your WM isn't using compositing22:08
jiefkoh crap :p, I already issued init 6 :p22:09
jiefkBut should the system start normally to TTY in recovery mode ?22:09
gnarfacei'm not sure.  maybe22:09
gnarfaceeven if this new config doesn't work, you should at least get a more relevant error22:10
jiefkthe screen still turns off22:10
gnarfacepastebin the new xorg log22:11
jiefkhttp://paste.debian.net/1080940/22:12
gnarfaceare you copying this config while xorg is running?22:14
gnarfaceor did you exit it first?22:14
gnarfacethis one says it worked22:14
jiefkHeh can't tell, I SSH'd from my other compy :p22:14
gnarfacethis one says it worked and exited successfully22:15
jiefkI'll htop to see what's going on22:15
gnarfacesee if you still have a login manager running22:15
gnarfacelike slim or lightdm or kdm or whatever22:15
gnarfaceit does seem possible that maybe it's sending the output to the wrong display22:18
gnarfaceyou said this was a dual-gpu laptop though, right?  if so, it's possible it's sending it to the wrong card22:18
gnarfacethough usually in those cases, the intel card is the default22:18
jiefkmesa-utils ans mesa-utils-extras were not installed22:19
jiefkI installed those packages22:20
jiefkalso, I `update-rc.d lightdm remove`22:20
gnarfaceoh, it was running?22:20
jiefkno, from ssh still22:20
gnarfaceyou could check that from ssh22:20
gnarfaceps aux --forest22:21
jiefk--forest ? this is quite an argument :)22:21
jiefkI'll try that after next reboot22:21
jiefkOK I still have no screen :/22:27
jiefkhttp://paste.debian.net/1080942/22:28
gnarfacehmmm. well i don't recognize everything you're running there, but nothing sticks out at first glance22:29
gnarfaceany change to the xorg log?22:29
gnarfacehmmm. i wonder if gpm could be causing an issue22:30
gnarfacei doubt it though22:30
jiefkgnarface : http://paste.debian.net/1080945/22:35
jiefkI got this file from `startx` as root from ssh22:36
gnarfacejiefk: the last line still says it's terminating successfully: [   841.893] (II) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.22:36
jiefkI CTRL-C it after about 30 secs22:37
gnarfaceoh22:37
gnarfacewell it thinks it was working22:37
jiefkbut the screen is still off on the laptop22:37
jiefk(ie no backlight)22:38
gnarfaceoutputting to "eDP1" at 1366x76822:38
gnarfacesomething is still missing but it's not clear to me what22:38
jiefkthe screen works OK as I view GRUB and the starting sequence22:38
gnarfacethis is kdm?22:38
gnarfaceer, kde?22:38
gnarfacekde plasma?22:39
jiefkYes KDE, but I removed every *dm packages I found22:39
jiefkto get to TTY directly22:39
gnarfaceit could be failing differently now even though it looks the same.  it could be now giving you a black screen due to compositing.  try disabling compositing in kde (sorry don't know how specifically) or try a different WM, one that doesn't composite by default22:40
jiefkfluxbox ?22:40
jiefkbut how do I change it ?22:40
gnarfacei'm not sure about fluxbox22:41
gnarfacebut startx will obey ~/.xinitrc22:41
gnarfaceto whatever WM you set there22:41
gnarfacei know blackbox won't composite by default, and e17 will ask you at first startup22:41
gnarfacekde WILL composite by default, but there's some way to turn it off in a config, i just don't know exactly what22:42
gnarfacei think if you search for disabling plasma effects or something like that, it should tell you22:43
gnarface"plasma desktop" maybe?22:43
gnarfacebrb22:46
jiefkgnarface: yes, it's sending screen to the HDMI output.23:11
jiefkI just plugged it to the TV screen23:11
jiefknow I need to know how to get back everything to the main laptop screen (including TTYs)23:12
jiefkbut it's for tomorrow, now is time to walk with $DOG and sleep :)23:13
jiefkThanks again gnarface and debdog, see ya !23:14
fsmithredjiefk, maybe F8 or some other key?23:36
gnarfacejiefk: no problem... tomorrow try using xrandr on it while xorg is still running.  that's supposed to work23:52
gnarfacejiefk: you should be able to use xrandr to see the list of current display ports and tell it to switch to a different one23:53

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