Xenguy | That seems reasonable DocScrutinizer05 | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
Xenguy | onefang: OT, or w/e | 00:00 |
slvr | yeah, the clearly on-topic subject flag makes it work. | 00:00 |
Xenguy | "Let the schism begin" | 00:00 |
slvr | Other rooms I'm in are like that, informally. Chatter stops when questions from users show up. | 00:00 |
Xenguy | Makes sense to me | 00:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | on the other hand it's quite silly to complain aboit some off-topic chat of hours ago, because "you flooded my IRC client with stuff that *I* don't like to read". If you don't like to read, just don't do | 00:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><slvr> fair enough. I've found that rooms with some constant low level chatter are more friendly for newbies, but that's just me.<< no, that's a valid and correct observation | 00:07 |
sixwheeledbeast | I'd sooner have a little off-topic than logs of people asking if anyone is there and leaving 10 minutes later | 00:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 00:19 |
DocScrutinizer05 | IRC still is a realtime medium with possibly rather long response time than any sort of streamed forum | 00:20 |
DocScrutinizer05 | point to consider: even when some of the 24/7 inhabitants keep logs, hardly any new user will | 00:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | IOW it's frequently pointless to bother too much about backscroll more than maybe 2 or 3h ago | 00:23 |
DocScrutinizer05 | actually I receive some quite sarcastic comments quite often when I reply to a topic that been more than a 2 hours ago. In some channels you might get kicked for that | 00:32 |
MinceR | those channels don't sound fun | 00:33 |
gnarface | well, earlier today there was only mtnman. i responded to him within 1 minute, and 7 minutes later he left anyway without saying another word | 00:35 |
gnarface | so, you can't save em all | 00:36 |
fsmithred | He's been here before | 00:37 |
fsmithred | not recently | 00:37 |
* golinux grimbles | 00:43 | |
golinux | grumbles really | 00:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | why you grumble, dear? We're discussing this very channel's policies, couldn't be more on topic | 01:05 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and a 15 posts per hour would be perfectly allowable even if it were completely off-topic | 01:08 |
slvr | I've got an on topic question | 01:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | shoooot! :-D | 01:17 |
slvr | golinux: In the "help devuan" link in your forum sig, there is a report bugs with the bugreport utility thing. Where do those bugs go? | 01:17 |
slvr | I'd like to see if any are squashable. | 01:18 |
gnarface | i am not golinux but i assume they go to https://bugs.devuan.org/ | 01:20 |
gnarface | or at least that's probably where they're supposed to go | 01:20 |
slvr | cool, I'll look through them. | 01:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>...and 7 minutes later he left anyway without saying another word<< I wonder if those are noobs on ORC who, after posting a question, clicked on #otherchan which takes them to there and they got no clue how to return to here | 01:25 |
DocScrutinizer05 | IRC even | 01:25 |
golinux | slvr: I think that report bug wants to send them to Debian. I suggest sending reports by email to devuan directly. There are instructions on the bugs.devuan.org site | 01:43 |
golinux | Just make sure it's a devuan not a debian bug which should be reported upstream | 01:44 |
Xenguy | salmons swim upstream | 02:54 |
Xenguy | Is that haiku? | 02:55 |
xrogaan | salmons swim upstream; leafs from green to red; bears feast | 02:56 |
xrogaan | ? | 02:57 |
Xenguy | very nice | 03:06 |
Xenguy | I think | 03:07 |
Xenguy | Is it 5-5-2 ? | 03:07 |
Xenguy | 5-7-5 apparently | 03:10 |
Xenguy | fuck all of you and have a very good night, right there, officially logged | 03:11 |
fsmithred | I want dinner first | 03:11 |
Xenguy | oh no you don't | 03:12 |
Xenguy | ;P | 03:12 |
furrywolf | no dinner? and you're not even my type, unless you're female, mature, sane, practical, and good with a strapon... which I'm fairly sure you're not. :P | 03:12 |
Xenguy | Jesus Murphy | 03:13 |
Xenguy | Short answer, no | 03:13 |
fsmithred | lmao | 03:13 |
Xenguy | Either way, I had the first segment of the haiku, uh, pegged | 03:15 |
onefang | That escalated quickly. | 03:16 |
golinux | Get it together folks and move over to #debianfork | 03:17 |
Xenguy | All it takes is a couple of drinks, and the sky comes crashing down | 03:17 |
Xenguy | Whoops | 03:17 |
agris | hello, I'm having some trouble with PostgreSQL and redis-server in Devuan ASCII | 04:37 |
agris | when I run rc-status, it says redis-server is stopped, but when I run rc-service redis-server status it say it is running | 04:38 |
agris | htop confirms redis is actually running | 04:38 |
agris | also, | 04:38 |
gnarface | is rc-status and rc-service part of redis? | 04:38 |
gnarface | or are you using an alternate init system? | 04:39 |
agris | rc-status says postgresql is stopped, and rc-service postgresql status reports nothing at all, htop confirms postgres is not running | 04:39 |
agris | gnarface, I'm using sysvinit with OpenRC supervisory | 04:39 |
gnarface | i see, so openrc provided rc-status? | 04:39 |
gnarface | i'm guessing there's just something wrong with that script | 04:39 |
gnarface | probably a path or permission issue, but that's just a guess | 04:40 |
gnarface | (for example, maybe it's looking in the wrong directory for PID files, or maybe your user just doesn't have access to that directory) | 04:40 |
agris | openRC provides rc-status, rc-service, and rc-update | 04:40 |
agris | I am running this as root | 04:40 |
agris | well, root within an LXC container | 04:40 |
gnarface | hmmm. i wish i had more experience with openrc | 04:41 |
agris | so a permission related issue is not likely, unless root is not really root within this namespace | 04:41 |
gnarface | "rc-service redis-server status" works as expected? | 04:42 |
agris | root@nextcloud:~# rc-service redis-server status | 04:42 |
agris | [ ok ] redis-server is running. | 04:42 |
agris | yes | 04:42 |
gnarface | so rc-service works as expected in all cases, and rc-service ... unconfirmed in both cases? | 04:42 |
gnarface | sorry | 04:42 |
gnarface | i mean rc-status, unconfirmed in both cases? | 04:42 |
agris | no, rc-service is not working properly for postgresql | 04:42 |
gnarface | empty output isn't a valid case? you're sure about that? | 04:43 |
agris | rc-service works fine for redis-server, but rc-status does not work properly for redis-server | 04:43 |
agris | gnarface, yes, it should say something | 04:43 |
agris | that's what OpenRC is for, daemon supervisory | 04:43 |
gnarface | fair enough. i'm just not familiar with it, and a 0 output is a valid implied "success" message from a lot of legacy linux/unix command-line tools | 04:44 |
gnarface | i wonder if it could be the container | 04:45 |
gnarface | somehow | 04:45 |
gnarface | that would be one case where being root isn't necessarily sufficient privilege | 04:45 |
gnarface | does this look related? https://github.com/antirez/redis/issues/5105 | 04:45 |
agris | gnarface, maybe, but extremely unlikely. OpenRC doesn't do anything weird like that, it just calls sysvinit | 04:46 |
stiltr | was redis started from something other than the init.d script? | 04:46 |
gnarface | that's probably what i'd be doing at this point, is hand-tracing the init.d script to see if it succeeds at everything it's trying (especially stuff like PID file location) | 04:47 |
agris | unlikely #5105 is related and I can ping redis and get a PONG back | 04:47 |
gnarface | hmm. ok, unrelated probably | 04:48 |
agris | /etc/init.d/redis-server doesn't define a pidfile location, however it does use $PIDFILE, which may be inherited from the parent | 04:49 |
agris | oh wait | 04:50 |
agris | nvm i was wrong | 04:50 |
agris | RUNDIR=/var/run/redis | 04:50 |
agris | PIDFILE=$RUNDIR/redis-server.pid | 04:50 |
gnarface | this looks related too: https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/issues/215 | 04:50 |
gnarface | (at least contextually) | 04:50 |
agris | no, /var/run/redis/redis-server.pid contains a number, and that number does infact lead to the actual PID of the redis daemon | 04:51 |
gnarface | ok, so much for that theory | 04:52 |
agris | rc-status reports redis as stopped, not crashed | 04:52 |
agris | but perhaps this could be related | 04:52 |
agris | How old is OpenRC in Devuan? | 04:52 |
agris | # rc-status -V | 04:53 |
agris | rc-status (OpenRC [LXC]) 0.23 | 04:53 |
gnarface | well it's the exact same version as debian | 04:53 |
stiltr | huh, I'm running 0.38.3 over in gentoo, fwiw. | 04:53 |
agris | I just updated a Gentoo Stable box two days ago | 04:54 |
agris | here's what it says | 04:54 |
agris | rc-status (OpenRC) 0.41.2 (Gentoo Linux) | 04:54 |
gnarface | debian changelog says January 5, 2017 | 04:54 |
stiltr | Huh, I updated mine a week or two ago... I thought... haha | 04:54 |
agris | Is there any reason we can't bump the minor version in the Devuan stable release? | 04:55 |
gnarface | just parity with debian. these packages are all inherited from them | 04:55 |
agris | When was the rc-config utility added to OpenRC? | 04:56 |
gnarface | i don't know that, sorry | 04:56 |
agris | Devuan only has the legacy rc-update | 04:56 |
gnarface | 0.40.3 in testing and unstable | 04:56 |
agris | What will it take to make it as stable? | 04:56 |
agris | I'm perfectly willing to test in as a backport | 04:57 |
agris | on ASCII | 04:57 |
gnarface | alright, how much do you know about how testing becomes stable for debian? | 04:57 |
gnarface | it's basically like that for devuan, only we have to wait on debian | 04:57 |
gnarface | then fix extra shit | 04:58 |
agris | fuck | 04:58 |
gnarface | and when i say "we" i really mean... not me. i don't have anything to do with it | 04:58 |
gnarface | but | 04:58 |
gnarface | your idea about the backport is good | 04:58 |
gnarface | it's so good, that i'd actually be surprised if someone hadn't done it already | 04:58 |
agris | I ask because I've been running Gentoo servers for years and never had a problem with later versions of OpenRC | 04:58 |
gnarface | there are a few people running openrc here, and someone may have actually already put the new build in some unofficial repo, if you want to try it. you just have to figure out who of these sleepers know where it is | 04:59 |
gnarface | somewhere around here there's some sort of unofficial proposed additions repo | 04:59 |
agris | But at what point is there going to be enough 'testing' of OpenRC | 04:59 |
gnarface | it might work now honestly, i don't know | 04:59 |
gnarface | but devuan won't make testing stable until debian's testing goes stable | 05:00 |
gnarface | so it looks like you have two options | 05:00 |
gnarface | two options other than just trying to fix the version you have anyway | 05:00 |
gnarface | 1) backport it yourself 2) find someone in here who did already | 05:00 |
stiltr | The only dependency difference I saw was libselinux1. You can try just installing the deb, if you want to live dangerously. = ) | 05:01 |
gnarface | yea, i recommend against that, but people have been known to get away with such risks in a pinch | 05:01 |
agris | I don't exactly feel comfortable waiting on Debian to actually finish something regarding a non-systemd init | 05:01 |
agris | they seem hostile to it | 05:01 |
gnarface | i don't blame you | 05:01 |
gnarface | don't panic though, don't get angry. this is a solveable problem... | 05:02 |
gnarface | but i would also hate for you to go through the trouble of backporting it if it turns out there's a simple known fix for openrc in lxc containers already floating around out there | 05:02 |
agris | sure | 05:02 |
gnarface | it doesn't seem possible that you'd be the first person to run into this | 05:03 |
agris | but if your ever looking for a OpenRC maintainer, I am your guy | 05:03 |
gnarface | that position may actually be open | 05:03 |
gnarface | devuan is welcoming volunteers | 05:03 |
gnarface | are you aware of the mailing list? | 05:04 |
agris | considering I use Debuan and OpenRC in prod so much | 05:04 |
agris | yes | 05:04 |
gnarface | ok, good | 05:04 |
agris | I follow the mailing lists. | 05:04 |
agris | I am also aware of all the spam regarding people getting butthurt over the april fools prank | 05:04 |
gnarface | you might want to mention this issue on there in lieu of just sticking around here in IRC until morning, if you have somewhere else to be | 05:04 |
agris | sure thing | 05:05 |
gnarface | i think my best advice to you right now is try to see if you can backport the beowulf src package to ascii | 05:05 |
gnarface | if it builds with no trouble against ascii dependencies, there's a good chance upstream debian will take it into the backports repo i would think | 05:05 |
gnarface | and if not, there's always that unofficial devuan additions repo... wherever it is (i forget what they were calling it) | 05:06 |
gnarface | just out of curiosity, have you tried this outside the LXC container? does it fail the same way on bare metal? | 05:06 |
gnarface | i use linux-vserver containers a lot, and i know that weird stuff can fail just because "root" in guests still doesn't have permissions to do stuff like create it's own network devices | 05:09 |
gnarface | so sometimes some additional pre-setup on the host is necessary | 05:09 |
agris | I use OpenRC on bare metal and QEMU vms a lot as well, but have not run redis-server out of a LXC container with OpenRC before | 05:10 |
gnarface | so 3 possible culprits | 05:10 |
gnarface | but leaning towards it not being redis-server itself, because rc-status also fails weird for postgresql, just ... differently | 05:10 |
agris | In this case, It's a very lage CentOS 7 LXC hypervisor, running the official LXC Devuan scripts | 05:10 |
gnarface | that might be a clue actually | 05:10 |
gnarface | that it fails differently for postgrequl | 05:11 |
gnarface | postgressql however you spell that | 05:11 |
agris | just say postgres | 05:11 |
gnarface | heh, ok | 05:11 |
gnarface | i really should have made a point of memorizing who else was using openrc so i could ping them when questions come up | 05:13 |
agris | nvm on postgresql | 05:20 |
gnarface | working now? | 05:20 |
agris | Debian's postgres seems to be setup a bit weird | 05:20 |
gnarface | hmm | 05:20 |
gnarface | sounds plausible | 05:21 |
gnarface | they do some odd changes on certain things for security | 05:21 |
agris | instead of status outputting OK from OpenRC, it runs pg_lsclusters | 05:21 |
agris | for some reason when I installed postgres it didn't initalize a default cluster | 05:23 |
agris | So I just made one manually now and it seems to work | 05:23 |
gnarface | alright, one mystery solved there at least | 05:25 |
gnarface | hmm. reminds me of a weird issue i had in vservers recently. been having to reinstall cron on fresh guests or it doesn't run. not sure wtf is up with that. | 05:25 |
gnarface | certainly someone in here had already built the new OpenRC for ascii. who was that? | 05:31 |
stiltr | I just gave it a go. If anybody wants to give it a try: https://stiles-engineering.com/ascii-openrc/ | 05:43 |
xkr47 | good day all and thanks for Devuan! | 11:13 |
unixman | esr | 16:19 |
unixman | Whoops, wrong window. Time for more caffeine. :D | 16:19 |
g4570n | !ping | 16:41 |
infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss | 16:41 |
fsmithred | !ssh | 16:48 |
infobot | from memory, ssh is http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH, or http://www.openssh.org | 16:48 |
fsmithred | hrmph | 16:49 |
djph | fsmithred: eh? | 16:53 |
fsmithred | I was hoping for a better response | 16:54 |
fsmithred | ...like a shell | 16:54 |
armin | fsmithred: err what | 18:18 |
_abc_ | Hi. I'm trying to format a manual page manually using groff -man Tascii $src.man >out.txt and the system says it can't find man.macros . What package do I have to install? | 20:55 |
_abc_ | Strangely it is present but part of tcllib? | 20:56 |
_abc_ | Guys, groff on devuan ascii does not work as the manual says it should? source loading a macro package with so man.macros searches only in local dir, ignores -M and GROFF_TMAC_PATH= env. Both tried. I had to strace to see it. Is this a new feature of gnu groff? "feature" ? | 21:32 |
_abc_ | I am sort of fed up using my ninja skills (strace etc) to find holes in open source stuff which presumably passes regression tests? Is there a groff specific channel on freenode? Texttools in general? | 21:34 |
gnarface | _abc_: i don't know much about it, but 2 minutes of googling infers to me that man.macros is a file full of a bunch of undocumented macros, and you're generally expected to just find an example, and feed groff a man.local you've written yourself based on that. i don't know if that's true, that's just what a few minutes of googling suggests to me. | 21:40 |
gnarface | _abc_: someone on some forum (maybe stackexchange) suggested looking at the old Solaris documentation for the macros to get an idea of what is available | 21:41 |
gnarface | my own suggestion would be to try to find the man.local file used to make some popular GNU manpage you like the layout of and borrow examples from that | 21:42 |
_abc_ | gnarface: the way it works is, tcllib provides a man.macros which is used by all tcl manpages | 21:42 |
_abc_ | gnarface: the manpages invoke it using so man.macros in the source. | 21:42 |
gnarface | _abc_: right, but that is probably not "the" man.macros file, it's probably just "a" man.macros file. | 21:43 |
_abc_ | gnarface: groff is supposed to look in the path passed with -M or GROFF_TMAC_PATH= for this | 21:43 |
_abc_ | gnarface: strace shows that a) it does not do that and b) there is no GROFF_TMAC_PATH env related string in the binary, contrary to what the manpage claims | 21:43 |
_abc_ | gnarface: yes it is "a" man.macros file, the one to be used in this case. | 21:43 |
gnarface | hmmm. my guess is the man page is out of date | 21:44 |
_abc_ | gnarface: so the question is, why does groff ignore the -M and env | 21:44 |
_abc_ | gnarface: it is out of date but it is also written in the same style as modern ones are | 21:44 |
gnarface | hmm. | 21:45 |
gnarface | looks like this is not the only outstanding bug in groff | 21:45 |
gnarface | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?dist=stable;package=groff | 21:45 |
gnarface | i would think there's another way to make man pages | 21:46 |
_abc_ | Sure but this one is somewhat eyestabbing | 21:46 |
_abc_ | strace shows it does look in the "close" proximity of where the file is located under tcllib (see apt-file search man.macros output) | 21:47 |
gnarface | is there an info page for it? | 21:48 |
_abc_ | nope | 21:48 |
_abc_ | I fixed it manually, copying the man.macros to where I run groff, then it works. | 21:49 |
_abc_ | This after reading strace | 21:49 |
gnarface | yes, that seems to be the workflow everyone online suggested | 21:49 |
_abc_ | So it was not amusing for me but now I am curious why there is a desync between groff manpage and binary | 21:49 |
gnarface | it looks like there might be some other undocumented environment variables too | 21:50 |
_abc_ | Specifically, GROFF_TMAC_PATH is not in strings $(which groff) | 21:50 |
gnarface | maybe there's a webpage with more up-to-date documentation. sometimes the man pages get left behind | 21:50 |
_abc_ | I ran strings on it and looked. The other manpage indicated env vars are in | 21:50 |
_abc_ | Perhaps GROFF_TMAC_PATH was deprecated | 21:50 |
gnarface | there is a info page for it | 21:51 |
gnarface | it's more like a whole info book actually | 21:52 |
_abc_ | Perhaps I am misinterpreting so macro scope | 21:52 |
_abc_ | yes the info " | 21:52 |
_abc_ | page" tends to be a book with gnu stuff | 21:52 |
_abc_ | I do not have the info pages installed for groff | 21:52 |
gnarface | https://www.gnu.org/software/groff/#documentation | 21:52 |
gnarface | someone also apparently wrote a pdf called "Groff and mom: an overview" | 21:53 |
_abc_ | apt-file search groff.info -> installed ; yet info does not find it here... | 21:53 |
gnarface | they additionally encourage you to check in /usr/share/doc/groff* | 21:53 |
gnarface | hmmm, getting info pages working required an extra step but i did it so long ago i forget what it was | 21:53 |
gnarface | i'm using emacs as my info reader though so it might be just related to that | 21:54 |
gnarface | "info groff" doesn't give you anything? | 21:54 |
gnarface | i wasn't aware apt-file even worked anymore | 21:54 |
gnarface | it was broken for a long time | 21:54 |
_abc_ | So I had groff-base installed but groff not. Fixing it now. | 21:54 |
_abc_ | Also all the files you alluded to were not installed. | 21:55 |
_abc_ | gnarface: fwiw the info says the search path for .so can be set with -I cli option. Bummer did not try that. The manpage could really use some updating. | 22:17 |
helios21 | https://git.devuan.org/WIP-init/user-services/blob/master/README.md | 22:33 |
helios21 | see my post on dng-ml | 22:33 |
* helios21 is now off to play some Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition (with violence level set to zero) | 22:33 |
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