freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-05-21

barrett9hgnarface, Evilham, systemdlete: just came back home, woke up my desktop (was pm-suspended), and voila, I can ping  I haven't touched anything, it's like it came back online00:55
barrett9h(the issue is obviously not gone, I'm just illustrating the intermittent behavior)00:56
slvrif I were you, I'd be tcpdumping to log the problem.01:04
gnarfacebarrett9h: seconded on the tcpdump thing01:26
gnarfacejust have it log errors or something like that, try to figure out where those packets are going and where exactly they're falling off the stack01:27
slvrI'm interested in knowing if they are retransmitted with or without errors01:33
gnarfaceif it is a ISP-provided plastic router box, i think there is the possibility this is their/its fault01:38
slvrthe unique client behavior among other devices disagrees, but it's possible.01:39
gnarfaceit would be weird and could suggest sabotage01:39
gnarfacei also wonder about intermittent secondary network device presence (bluetooth devices coming online temporarily?)01:40
gnarfacethe single-domain, single-host issue would also heavily suggest sabotage in that case as well though01:41
slvrgithub mitm?01:41
gnarfacelike a failed attempt at it, yea01:41
gnarfaceor someone poking around trying to establish one01:41
gnarfacei know that's starting to get a little paranoid, but github is a high-profile target, and they've been hit repeatedly and recently01:42
slvrMy money is still on "ip conflict"01:43
gnarfacein the case of a ISP-managed plastic router box, this could just as theoretically represent some hamfisted attempt by their staff to mitigate some ongoing DDOS attack of some sort coming from that region01:44
gnarfacebut yea, you could be right. IP conflict seems just as likely.  it's really easy to accidentally get a rogue DHCP server on your LAN if you plug in too many windows boxes01:45
gnarfacemaybe Macs do that too in some configurations actually01:45
gnarfacei forget now01:45
gnarfacebut it's probably worth noting that physical switch failure could look exactly the same01:46
gnarfacebarrett9h: you're not using a local DNS server, are you?  if you are, make sure that machine has ntpd running too...02:12
Xenguygnarface: Do you use unbound at all?02:46
Xenguyfsmithred: I hope you are a proud fellow, I remember the pictures I saw of you folks, and it was just lovely to see02:49
gnarfaceXenguy: no, just using bind902:49
Xenguygnarface: OK, just checking, I'm looking at this unbound DNS tool which claims to be a caching DNS thingie02:50
gnarfaceXenguy: i used to use dnsmasq for that02:51
XenguyYeah, this unbound sounds more recent/NG02:51
XenguyFor better or for worse02:52
fsmithredI think I'm using unbound02:55
fsmithredI believe I installed it and forgot all about it02:56
fsmithredok, it's installed and running. How do I know if it's helping?02:56
gnarfaceDNS lookups will be nearly instantaneous02:57
gnarfacewhereas your common cheap ISP might have overloaded DNS servers that easily add 50-100ms to lookups02:58
fsmithredI can run nslookup to check that?02:58
fsmithredtime says 0.294s02:59
gnarfaceyou mean ms?02:59
fsmithreddifferent number 'cause it was a different run03:00
fsmithredhow is that read?03:00
gnarfacehmm. maybe nslookup isn't the best test03:01
gnarfacewhere you'll typically notice a big difference is stuff like log parsing involving reverse name lookups in batches and such03:01
gnarfacebut like i said, if your ISP's DNS servers are really slow, you could actually notice the difference just clicking on links in firefox03:02
fsmithredwell, I think they suck for other reasons than slowness03:02
fsmithredbrowsing in firefox has seemed unusually slow for about the last year or so. Maybe a little longer.03:03
specingfsmithred: do you have nscd?03:04
fsmithredok, I just clicked on some links I haven't been to in a long time, and they loaded very quickly.03:05
fsmithredno ncsd03:05
fsmithreddon't know about it03:05
specingfsmithred: its glibc's resolver03:06
XenguyEnough, I'm watching the last ever episode of GoT03:06
XenguyThe soap opera we're all allowed to talk about03:07
barrett9hslvr, gnarface: other machines on my local network work ok. even my own machine, running a liveusb distro.  so the problem is with the software on my pc, not the router or my ip. (and no, i'm not using a local dns. and the problem is not the dns anyway)03:24
barrett9hmaybe I'll try this tcpdump thing later. I really have a lot of work to do now..03:25
Syllinanyone know how to get sftp:// working with thunar? all the docs online i see are for gnome04:06
Syllinpresently, i get a red "no way" icon when i type "s"04:06
gnarfaceSyllin: i don't use thunar, but could it simply be a plugin or module of some sort that is in another package you need to install?04:13
systemdletedoes devuan always install systems for sudo rather than su, if taking all the instalation ISO defaults?06:21
systemdletehas it always been that way on devuan, at least ascii?06:21
systemdlete(silly question I know, but I'm puzzled by something here)06:22
gnarfaceit has been so long since i've done a non-expert-mode install that i honestly don't know06:25
gnarfacein expert mode it asks you though06:25
gnarfacewhether to create a root account password or not06:25
gnarfacei'm pretty sure anyway06:25
systemdleteok, thanks.  That might be the difference.  I installed test box with root account and this box without it (I am guessing)06:26
systemdletegotta take down my connection for a moment...06:28
golinuxsystemdlete: su is the default in Devuan/Debian.  You have to configure it to use sudo (which I never have)06:50
systemdleteI used the installer, but not in expert mode.  Somehow I have sudo, not a root login06:50
systemdleteI don't recall being asked.  I only installed ascii on my main box a few days ago (friday I think)06:51
systemdletebut actually, I am more interested in my vbox question.  What prevents me from installing the debian version from
gnarfaceprobably requires systemd06:53
systemdletewhat I figured...06:53
gnarfacei think the sudo thing might really be linked to whether you create a root password or not.  i think it infers what you want from that06:53
systemdletesure.  I don't remember if it asked me for a root password, only for the admin user password, during the install06:54
systemdletethe only "expert" task I performed during install was the partitioning step.06:54
systemdleteEverything else I more or less chose defaults.06:54
gnarfacemaybe it's that it asks whether you want to create a non-root user, and infers from THAT06:55
gnarfacei am not sure06:55
gnarfacei don't remember it ever being that confusing though, i'm sure if you go through it again paying attention to that step it'll make more sense though06:55
systemdletewell, this is really a bit of a nit  I can always run passwd in a "sudo bash" (which is how I get a root env anyway)06:56
gnarfacepeople in here have a solution to the virtualbox thing too06:56
systemdleteit's called libvirt and KVM06:56
systemdleteI know.06:56
systemdleteor xen, maybe.06:56
gnarfaceno no, i think they actually have a virtualbox solution, though it may be just to use the wheezy version.06:56
gnarfacemy advise is to use qemu-kvm though, yes06:57
gnarfacethough i never liked libvirt and quickly grew out of it while trying to debug it06:57
systemdleteeh, no.  I wouldn't.  For one thing, getting vbox support will be an uphill battle.  And sometimes you have to get support for hairy issues, ones only they can help you with.06:57
systemdleteIf you're more than about 2 or 3 point releases behind either 5.2 or 6.0 (or whatever versions they are supporting), they will push you to upgrade.06:58
gnarfacesomeone might have built a updated non-systemd version06:58
gnarfaceof virtualbox06:58
systemdleteSo I prefer to stay somewhat current.06:58
systemdletesomeone at devuan?  Or someone somewhere else?06:59
gnarfacewell, someone who hangs out in this channel06:59
systemdleteoh, ok.06:59
gnarfacei just remember that it has come up before07:00
systemdleteI think the worst I've seen installing from are some horror messages about systemctl not found.  But it completes without incident and the tool runs fine.07:00
gnarfacesometimes the bigger risk is just package dependency breakage07:01
gnarfacelike, it might work fine now, but sabotage a later update/upgrade of other stuff07:01
gnarfaceespecially if you accidentally get other stuff from their repo07:02
gnarfacelike if it replaces some additional devuan native packages with the debian ones07:02
systemdleteI don't have any of that with the other distros, like CentOS.  I installed the generic version (which is really CentOS) on hyperbola (which is nonsystemd arch linux) without a problem07:02
gnarfacewell it often doesn't become apparent until you're upgrading to a new release07:02
systemdleteIt doesn't do that.  It only offers their package, built against the various platforms07:03
gnarfacethis is general advise against mixing repos and distros, i have no virtualbox-specific experience here07:03
gnarface(the debian sid version of wine-staging works fine on devuan ceres too)07:03
systemdleteFirst off, builds its software package against "standard" distros, and even downstream spins work OK with it07:04
gnarfaceeh, as long as you're sure, just try it07:04
gnarfacebut don't forget i recommended you make a backup first :)07:04
gnarfacei've nuked a couple debian installs in my day07:04
gnarfacecavalierly mixing repos07:05
gnarface(and it's rarely obvious until months later)07:05
systemdleteI mean, I could ask them.  But, see, this is where the chicken-and-egg comes in.  They won't be thrilled to assist me in installing an old point release07:05
golinuxsystemdlete: I have in my sources.list and it works just fine.07:05
gnarfaceyea and they'll probably give you attitude for not using debian07:05
systemdletevirtualbox doesn't really provide a repo, per se07:05
systemdleteHow did WE become the Unix weirdos?  It's the systemd crowd that should be made to cower, not us.07:06
gnarfacewe don't have a megacorp funding us07:06
golinuxThis is getting into political OT guys . . .07:07
gnarfacegood point07:07
systemdletegolinux: It's really about support.  Sorry for getting OT07:07
systemdletebut really, it's the whole reason we are here, and there is a distro.07:08
systemdletebut golinux.  I'll try adding that to my sources.  I wouldn't think there'd be a problem.07:08
golinuxYeah I know.  I've been at it here for over 4 years.07:08
systemdleteIs virtualbox a package in debian also, or just devuan?07:09
golinuxI have non-free and contrib enabled too07:09
golinuxIt comes directly from Oracle.  At least that's where I get it because I need usb support.07:09
golinuxI think that Devuan has a version in contib or backports or both.07:10
golinux is your friend.07:10
systemdleteThe repository ' ascii Release' does not have a Release file.07:11
systemdletemy sources.list line I added:07:12
systemdletedeb ascii main non-free07:12
systemdlete(I have no idea if that's even half-right07:12
rrq stretch/contrib07:14
systemdletefor ascii?07:14
systemdleteok, thanks07:14
rrqthat gives you 6.0.8-130520~Debian~stretch07:14
rrqthere's also ceres/contrib07:14
rrqwhich gives 6.0.8-dfsg-407:15
golinuxLook in backports in ascii07:15
rrqyes that's 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+107:15
golinux[ascii-backports] virtualbox-5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+107:15
golinuxYou're too fast . . .07:15
systemdleteso now my deb line is:07:16
rrqor jessie/contrib which is 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u107:16
systemdletedeb stretch/contrib07:16
systemdleteit fails with a syntax error or something.  It doesn't like that07:16
golinuxNo / between stretch and contrib07:16
rrq(gnarface mentioned backups)07:17
systemdletebackups of what -- GBs of VM images?07:18
systemdletenot likely. At least not here.07:18
systemdletegood advice in most circumstances, but here I'd only backup the xml and other config files.  I don't have space for the images07:18
systemdleteI've used the VirtualBox versions from their site on other distros without problems in the past.  I doubt there could be that much incompatibility.07:19
systemdleteBesides, I've actually just copied all my VMs from another RAID so there are plenty of copies that are only a few days old anyway.07:20
systemdletenow, it is complaining that there is no public key and it can't authenticate07:20
systemdleterrq:  vbox 4 is no longer supported and hasn't been for a couple of years07:26
systemdletethey only support their latest version and one back.  As soon as they put out a new version, like 6.0, they kill 4.07:27
systemdleteI would not recommend anyone use that old a version of vbox given their support policy.07:27
systemdleteOn the page, it might be helpful to include the debian release number.  I sometimes forget which is which, given I am not a longtime debian user (I'm a pre-RH7/CentOS7 refugee)07:36
systemdleteso I am not as familiar with the release numbers and need a head jogger sometimes07:36
systemdletejust a suggestion07:36
systemdletethey give a link for the debian 8 public key, but not debian 907:39
systemdleteprinter test page (cups) still shows debian logo.  No biggie, just saying.09:52
GyrosGeierI have a Debian box and would like to use pbuilder to compile packages in a Devuan chroot12:12
GyrosGeierin principle, if systemd isn't available, regular debootstrap should find a working installation set from Devuan sources12:13
GyrosGeierbut it's missing an installation script for "ascii"12:13
KatolaZGyrosGeier: get the ascii script from the devuan package for debootstrap12:14
GyrosGeiercan that package still bootstrap Debian images?12:14
KatolaZsure it can12:14
GyrosGeierbecause if I don't break the autobuilder that way, I can just take the whole debootstrap package from Devuan12:15
GyrosGeiercool, seems to work12:17
Evilhamsystemdlete: you can propose changes to the webpage in the form of 'Merge Requests' :-D
* man_in_shack waddles around15:32
man_in_shackanyone use adb on devuan in here?15:32
rrqit happens, yes15:46
man_in_shackwhee netsplit16:19
man_in_shackso i'm getting an error with adb16:20
man_in_shackerror: could not install *smartsocket* listener: Cannot assign requested address16:20
man_in_shackanyone encountered this before?16:20
golinux_<systemdlete> said: printer test page (cups) still shows debian logo.  No biggie, just saying.18:42
golinux_Someone prepared Devuan printer test pages some time ago.  No one has taken up the task to fork and maintain the cups pkgs required to fix it.18:44
golinuxCosmetic changes are not a high priority.18:45
EvilhamI find branding-only package forks silly where not strictly necessary, it opens the door for unmaintained old debs that are full of security bugs fixed somewhere else18:46
Evilhamso, if that's the only issue with cupsd, that's fine :-p18:46
Syllinanyone else having problems with wifi disconnected when waking from sleep or suspend?20:34
Syllini have to manually go in and reconnect in the wicd UI20:34
Syllinman_in_shack do you mean android debug bridge? try `sudo adb kill-server; sudo adb start-server` to make sure the daemon is running as root20:36
fsmithredSyllin, yeah lose connection when I suspend20:38
fsmithredI think it happens with wired connection, too20:38
golinuxMy wired connection comes right back up20:47
furrywolfwicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever.  for sleep/suspend, I find it only reconnects if it's _not_ open at the time.20:54
furrywolfI've been looking for something else to use.20:54
fsmithredI've heard good things about connman20:55
furrywolfconmen always say good things about themselves.  :P20:55
specinguse badvpn-ncd20:55
golinuxfurrywolf: wired wicd works just fine here20:57
furrywolfheh, I had to explicitly make wicd not touch my wired interface, by giving it a fake interface name, because its incompetence-by-design broke my wired if I let it touch it.20:58
MinceR> wicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever.21:33
MinceRnot as bad as networkmanager! :>21:33
slvrmanaging wpa-supplicient configs manually works well if wicd is a pain21:39
MinceRwpa_cli crashes a lot, though21:41

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