freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-06-04

systemdletebefore I begin, yeah, I really am not quite sure what I'm doing.  I have a ASUS M5A78L-USB3 MB with a Thuban 1075T X6 CPU.  It has a large, but still fairly modest, fan assembly.03:57
systemdleteI ordered a FX8350 thinking I can upgrade it so, as per ASUS's support page for this MB.  But it comes with a Wraith cooler.03:58
systemdleteIt looks like it wont fit around the closest memory modules, and a Tom's HW review seems to indicate that also.03:58
systemdletemy current processor is 95W; the new FX processor runs at 125W.  So this may be why they boxed the processor with the wraith.03:59
systemdleteI was hoping for a straight-forward upgrade using this board, which has really been very sound.  I've had no instability issues.03:59
systemdleteIs there any way I can use the existing fan and get away with it (meaning: not blow the cpu or the board, or both)?04:00
systemdletesomething about Black edition vs whatever edition; the ability to do some sophisticated OC which I am really not looking to do04:01
systemdletejust wanted to get some additional processing power.  The whole "upgrade" kit cost me $72, so I won't cry too much if I have to forego this whole deal.  But any thoughts/experience on the predicament I've created for myself might be helpful.04:03
gnarfacesystemdlete: what's your ram configuration?04:04
systemdlete4x4 -- all 4 slots 4G each04:04
gnarfaceoh i see04:04
systemdletedo you know this board?04:04
gnarfaceno but i'm looking at the manual now04:04
gnarfacemy first suggestion was to just use the second pair of slots instead04:05
systemdletetheir site claims I could do a FX8350, but I think the wraith is a new edition for AMD on certain cpus04:05
systemdleteright.  But that would deprive me of 1/2 my memory.  I was trying to go "cheap"04:06
gnarfaceironically you're in this situation because AMD doesn't cheap out on their stock coolers04:07
systemdleteyou know, it just might JUST clear the memory stick.  But I'd hate to take it all apart and end up very disappointed.04:07
EHeMIn theory all desktop processors in the past decade have dealt with overheat conditions by reducing their clock speeds, to the point that they were all capable of running /without/ a heat sink/fan; AMD hasn't been doing as much testing of this as Intel, but they're known to do some and an FX8350 *should* be able to deal with an undersized heatsink/fan (note it is possible to get FX8350 processors without the "Wraith" cooler).04:07
gnarfaceyea you could just underclock the CPU but depending on what you're doing, you might be better off with half the ram actually04:07
EHeMNote, this is theory and I don't take responsibility if your system explodes with an undersize heatsink/fan (I'm merely stating this is *unlikely*).04:07
systemdleteI had no idea how big this wraith would be.   I got the package today, opened it, thinking the actual packaing is probably smaller than the shipper box,but alas, no.  Then when I opened the actual inside package, this enormous fan assembly... and my heart sunk...04:08
gnarfaceeh, maybe you have lower profile ram and it'll fit?04:08
gnarfacemaybe the fan orientation isn't the same, so it'll be fine?04:09
systemdletepossibly.  Just looking through the side window of my case, it looks like it will be tight, if at all.04:09
systemdleteDang.  I hate when stuff like this happens.  And it always does it seems.04:09
gnarfacewhen you tried to go cheap, you already committed to the possibility of taking it all apart only to have to put it all back together without upgrading anything.  so i'd say take it apart and get measuring.  better to start now then at midnight after you realize you shouldn't have spent 5 hours agonizing over whether to do a 30 minute task04:10
systemdleteSo, then why do they offer both 8350 with AND without wraith fan?  Because of something to do with OC04:10
gnarfaceyes, possibly04:10
gnarfacethe motherboard manual says that preferring the blue ram slots also is a OC-only concern04:10
systemdleteThis board does allow some OC, but I've never really twiddled with the OC feature.  I tried OC once a long time ago on a different board, iirc, and found it got unstable and gave up.04:11
gnarface(the memory configuration lists the possiblity of using beyond-spec 2000Mhz RAM)04:11
systemdleteinteresting gnarface04:11
EHeMI've got a M5A78L-M+/USB3 and a Wraith is just fine, but this sounds like a similar, but distinct board.04:11
systemdleteI think mine is 1333, but idr04:11
systemdletemine is just the M, not M+04:11
systemdleteSo you have a wraith also?04:12
EHeMsystemdlete: Yes.04:12
gnarfaceit's probably the type of thing where if your ram sticks are wider it won't fit, but some normal sized ones may fit04:12
* EHeM isn't interested in OC, but instead noise.04:12
* systemdlete thought he was simply getting a nice, quiet, fast fan.04:13
gnarfacethe ram might have to go in before the fan04:13
gnarfaceat least, that one stick on the left04:13
systemdleteWell, with EHeM's input, it sounds like this is worth a shot.   Does your board have 4 slots, and are you using the closest slot?04:14
* systemdlete didn't realize how big the monster is04:16
systemdleteIt's 4 sticks of Hyper X blue, if that helps.  It comes with the heat sinks (I thought it was good to buy a little bit upscale just for the heat dissapation)04:17
EHeMI'm merely using 2 slots, but it looked like I could potentially use all 4, but adding additional memory was going to require removing the heatsink/fan.04:17
gnarfacethe heatsyncs might be the difference between the sticks fitting under the cpu cooler in the left slot or not04:18
systemdleteAnd I've got about 4 fans in the box, including one attached to the back of my Kingwin 4 drive disk rack -- a 120MM, and another 120MM on the back of the case, and an 60 or 80mm (idr) in the front below the kingwin04:18
systemdleteof course, the psu has one and the existing cpu has one, but the cpu fan is just an 80mm I think04:19
gnarfaceon the plus side, stock RAM heatsyncs are often known to be worse than nothing at all, so if it's just the RAM heatsyncs in the way, maybe you can peel them off and go04:19
gnarfacei know, it's not fair04:19
EHeMThe memory modules I've got are "normal" sized without heat sinks; the extra heat sinks may kill it for you, could be larger modules could also be the difference.04:19
gnarfacesystemdlete: they actually sell "low-profile" RAM these days, too.  maybe you could even find a friend with some that is otherwise the same spec, then trade?04:20
systemdleteFriend?   What is this... "friend" thingy?04:20
gnarfacebusiness associate?04:20
gnarfaceeh, it's a long shot, i know04:21
gnarfacei had a long NVidia card that ran into the ram slots once04:21
systemdletewell.  I think the first thing to do is TRY it.  See how bad it actually is.  Maybe liberate one or two of the sticks from their coverings04:21
gnarfacebut all it hit was one of the lower plastic clips, so just sawed that part off and went with it04:21
systemdlete"It was that close, 99"04:22
systemdleteI may have to get creative.04:22
EHeMSimply trying seems like a reasonable plan.04:22
systemdleteEHeM, you think?  LOL04:22
systemdleteOne thing I did not think of checking was the jump in Wattage from 95 to 125 -- I'm guessing that is the source of the additional heat, requiring the higher capacity fan?04:23
gnarfaceyou got some rubbing alcohol on hand?04:23
systemdleteNo, but I could get some04:23
gnarfacemake sure it's not the crappy 2% stuff.  you go into the pharmacy section and buy the +93% stuff from the glass cabinet.04:24
gnarfacethat will clean off any heatsync goo04:24
gnarfacejust that and a paper towel04:24
EHeMProblem with the AMD thermal compound is it acts as a glue, I've managed to remove AMD processors from their sockets merely when pulling out the heatsink/fan.04:25
gnarfaceusually it's not actually the heatsyncs that limit heat dissipation, but rather the stock thermal compound they use (usually not even the compound so much as the fact they mix it with glue and use too much)04:25
systemdleteEHeM:  My experience with AMD also!04:25
gnarfaceyea i like to clean that stuff off and put arctic silver in there04:25
systemdleteI think this processor comes pre-gooed04:26
gnarfacebut the trick is not using too much, really04:26
EHeMOne it was stuck so tightly that I was completely unable to get it to detach even with quite a bit of force.04:26
systemdleteWhen I removed the X2 to upgrade to the (current) x6, the cpu came right out with the rest of the assembly.04:26
systemdleteand it was HOT.  I had to wait a while before attempting to separate them04:27
gnarfacewe should take the hardware discussion to #debianfork04:27
systemdleteyeah, ok meet you there...04:27
drizztHi !10:49
drizztI noticed that ceres is no more in Index of /merged/dists10:49
drizztonly found unstable10:50
drizztis there a reason ?10:50
tierce_does anyone have issues displaying .woff and .woff2 fonts on Firefox-ESR from the default Devuan ASCII repository ?12:01
KatolaZtierce_: are those canine fonts? :D12:04
tierce_KatolaZ, yep … they bites the nice icons and replaces them with text strings. Bad woff ! :p12:05
KatolaZI wonder whether there are any .meow or .roar fonts around :P12:06
tierce_found the solution, my browser.display:use_document_fonts was set to 0 in about:config12:11
blebman git rm looks up git-rm(1), not git(1) and rm(1)16:23
blebwhat is this trash?16:23
blebman is aware of git commands?16:23
errandir1is bash completion messing it up?16:27
pixelherodevWhat's up with ?16:30
pixelherodevSomething off with the certificate?16:34
KatolaZpixelherodev: * has never had support for HTTPS16:39
bleberrandir1: i thought it was bash completion at first16:40
blebbut it persists with sh(1)16:40
pixelherodev... ohhh thanks16:40
pixelherodev... that raises the question of why it was ever set to use https in sources.list, 'cause I haven't touched that before today16:40
KatolaZpixelherodev: you must have changed it manually16:43
pixelherodevI realize that - probably did it without thinking about it months ago16:46
pixelherodev...just to confirm, should be fine right?16:47
pixelherodev...oh nvm16:47
pixelherodevApparently "testing" isn't valid as a version or sources.list16:48
fbtbleb, first and simplest guess: it just checks if a man file like that exists.17:29
fbtYep, just look for *-* man files and try it :)17:30
fbt`man wicd client` gives me `man wicd-client`17:30
fbtIt checks for a $1-$2 man, but not $1-$2-$3, heh.17:32
EHeM`git` has an "rm" command to remove files from a repository, as the git-doc package includes a man page "git-rm.1.gz", `man git rm` will give you that man page (`git help rm` also takes you to the same place).17:54
EHeMNot a bash feature, but the git documentation making use of how `man` functions.17:55
EHeMIn other news as of right now "stable" is still missing.17:57
EHeMIf the excuse of "beowulf" is about to replace "ascii" in the role of "stable"; that is not entirely unreasonable, but there should be a maximum downtime of 24 hours.17:58
EHeMI cannot speak for others, but I would have no objections to links for "stable" getting updated a few hours after "beowulf" was officially released.17:59
EHeMI would theorize "testing" may very well have been valid (as it has long been a pseudo-release allowed for Debian), but very possibly disappeared at the same time "stable" did.18:01
errandir1I see man has a --no-subpages option to avoid showing git-rm18:01
fbtEHeM, wicd-client is not mentioned in wicd, but you still get to do `man wicd client` and get to wicd-client.20:18
fbtIt just checks if a file like `$1-$` exists, it seems.20:19
fsmithredEHeM, which links are you talking about? the ones in /merged or the ones in /devuan?22:12
golinuxfsmithred: I had the same thought but have tired of trying to get that point across.22:22
fsmithredI don't even understand why we have those links22:33
golinuxSo that users don't have to changes their sources22:43
fsmithredbut that doesn't work in devuan22:43
fsmithredor as mentioned, it can work if you're careful22:44
fsmithredbut that's a nightmare for the help desk22:44
golinuxSome users haven't gotten that memo22:45
EHeMI copied a line from sources.list several days ago, "deb stable main"; I do note that if you select any of the links in /merged/ in a web browser all of them give 404 despite showing differing sizes.23:47
EHeMDebian has been strongly pushing people away from stable for a decade, at this point anyone still using stable is almost certainly aware of the downsides and is prepared to deal with them.23:49
EHeMNo one has asked, but dealing with the weakness is pretty simple:23:57
fsmithredwhich weakness?23:58
EHeMWhenever it is time to do an update do `apt-get update ; apt-get -s upgrade` and check the output isn't too huge, if you're upgrading a large number of packages then it is time to go back to the website and read about special instructions for upgrading between distribution versions.23:59

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