libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-06-27

XenguyIt appears to me that the dbus updates are now devaunized, amirite?01:41
Centurion_Danyup01:41
XenguyThank you to one and all who helped get that done Centurion_Dan01:42
Xenguy*devuanized01:42
Centurion_DanXenguy: I wonder if it really needs to forked to be honest.... the only change is to drop the build of dbus-user-session which depends on systemd and libpam-systemd.  The rest of it appears to not care about systemd per se....01:52
[rg]do you guys have gcc on base?02:14
a6Y37lI had success installing devuan 2 with a screen reader but the grub install failed for some reason so I installed with lilo.  When the grub install failed, my computer just got lost in space and screen reader speech even went away.  I was logging installation but never managed to capture those failed logs on the hard drive.03:45
a6Y37lIf I try this again, I'll mount a flash drive and save logs to the flash drive.03:47
golinuxa6Y37l: Are you visually impaired?03:50
a6Y37lNo, I've never had any vision to be impaired; I'm part of the blind bats and was born that way.03:51
golinuxThe minimal-live.iso is blind-friendly03:53
a6Y37lThe medical condition is bilateral microphthalmia and it's rare and genetic.03:53
golinuxWe have several blind users on devuan.03:53
golinuxYou seem to be doing very well with it.  :)03:54
a6Y37lI used the minimal live iso to install.03:54
golinuxah  . . . well then you could ask on the dng mailing list.03:55
fsmithredgrub sometimes fails for no apparent reason. Don't be too surprised if it works next time.03:55
a6Y37lI've tried subscribing to it twice and never got a confirmation message so far as I can recall.03:55
a6Y37lWhen that happens it's because of undocumented errors.03:57
a6Y37lAn error number will appear with no description.03:58
golinuxLet me check. could you please pm me your username?03:58
golinuxI'm in the database now.04:00
golinuxBut dinner is just now ready so I'll be afk for a while04:01
golinuxAlso check your spam for the confirmation.  I'm off . . .04:02
FlibberTGibbethi, just saw a message from data center light that they're now supporting beowulf. has it actually been released?14:43
fsmithredno, we don't even have a beta installer iso yet14:44
FlibberTGibbetthanks fsmithred! was a bit surprised tbh14:44
fsmithredyou can install it from ascii netinstall if you choose expert14:45
FlibberTGibbetmight give it a go sometime in a vm14:46
fsmithredeither that or upgrade ascii - I've done that a couple times and it's working pretty well14:46
FlibberTGibbetoh, just a change to sources.list?14:47
FlibberTGibbetnice14:47
fsmithredI upgraded refracta, which has fewer metapackages14:47
FlibberTGibbetsolid so far?14:47
fsmithredyeah14:47
fsmithredI haven't been using it a whole lot, but it seems to all work14:47
FlibberTGibbetcool. must admit i've never blown anything up in Devuan that I couldn't trace back to a yours-truly error14:47
fsmithredlol14:47
fsmithreddesktop stuff is working in xfce (power, usb mounting)14:48
FlibberTGibbetthat would do for the basic setup, for sure14:48
FlibberTGibbethas anyone tried an RPi4 with ascii yet, btw?14:48
fsmithredit seems that the upgrade to beowulf is easier than the jessie to ascii upgrade14:49
FlibberTGibbetnot sure they've been out long enough14:49
Centurion_Danfsmithred: o/14:49
fsmithredI don't know. Ask in the arm channel14:49
fsmithredhi!14:49
FlibberTGibbetthat's good. had only a few issues with jessie->ascii in any case14:49
Centurion_Danfsmithred: did you get your refracta related packages to build?14:49
fsmithrednope. I tried again yesterday.14:50
fsmithredsame error14:50
fsmithredproblem with the label14:50
Centurion_Danok.  I'll check out further in the morning and figure out why it's rejecting...14:51
fsmithredthanks14:51
fsmithredyou got dbus to build?14:51
fsmithredoops. I asked too soon.14:52
Centurion_Danyes - ascii and ascii-security is up to date, and unstable and beowulf also tonight.14:52
fsmithredyou gonna build for jessie before she retires?14:52
fsmithred...next week14:53
Centurion_Danis their a dbus security update for that too?  I didn't look that far.14:53
fsmithredyeah14:54
Centurion_DanI will do that tomorrow too then.14:54
fsmithredthanks14:54
Centurion_Danactually, looks like it failed the repo job for dbus into beowulf...  I'll fix that too tomorrow...15:02
Centurion_DanI'm off to bed o/15:02
fsmithredsleep well15:03
buZzhttps://fossbytes.com/valve-steam-work-with-linux-distros-gaming/19:19
buZzalmost feels like someone from devuan should be contacting them ;)19:19
buZzbut i guess there might already be19:19
specingbuZz: .. no?20:16
buZzspecing: why not? or what are you saying no to20:16
specingI don't see how bringing more proprietary software helps the FOSS community20:16
specingat the same time I do see that FOSS games have ever declining player counts in their multiplayer rooms20:17
buZzthats a good point20:17
specingso perhaps focus should be redirected elsewhere20:17
specingand not into supporting more proprietary software20:17
buZzotoh there are ppl using steam on devuan (incl me), isnt it beneficial to devuan to see that support continue to work well?20:17
buZzof course, only if it doesnt take away attention from other more needing project, i agree20:18
specingno20:20
specingit does take attention away20:20
specingparticularly if you are using it20:20
specingyou could be bumping player counts of FOSS games, but you choose differently20:21
lsjetI only play open games, or ancient emulated retro games. I don't do DRM, so Steam is a non-starter.20:26
slvrcommitting to support closed software is unsustainable. It's fine for cheaty quick opportunities, but has inevitable maintenance unacceptable consequences.20:26
slvreg, shipping additional proprietary closed libraries, which is being strongarmed into "compatibility" like mozilla.20:27
lsjetslvr, right. It's unsustainable in the same sense as pursuing compatibility with closed document formats. The closed software suppliers always have the ability to pull the rug out from under you.20:27
slvrexactly.20:27
slvror to "alter the deal further" as they please20:28
lsjetlol, ESB reference20:28
slvrI butchered it but yes. :)20:28
slvrnow making wine a first class citizen on devuan would be different. It's technically open, unlike steam.20:29
Leander_valve has contributed a lot to wine lately, via their proton fork20:31
Leander_it's not a perfect situation, but I find it short-sighted to dismiss then so quickly20:32
lsjetHelping open source doesn't negate the harm of supporting DRM. You can save someone from drowning and still be a serial killer.20:32
lsjetOk, that analogy was a little dark.  :p20:33
specing:)20:33
lsjetDRM should be fought, subverted and broken, never supported.20:34
Leander_so what? we just wait for AAA titles to magically land on Linux?20:34
specingLeander_: so, wine gets support, but their proprietary software does not20:34
specingthey are a company and can support it themselves should they so desire20:34
EvilhamI think this is the moment where people point out to #debian-fork or whatever that channel is :-)20:34
Leander_indeed Evilham20:34
specingWe just wait for FOSS AAA titles to land20:35
specinglike 0ad20:35
specingand we support those20:35
specingbut not proprietary ones20:35
lsjetI like Oolite and FreeOrion. Pioneer is good too.20:38
golinuxEvilham: I was just about to do that myself.  Please take this to #debianfork (no -)20:40

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