freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-07-02

Centurion_DanEvilham: except if you're microsoft of course....00:16
DocScrutinizer05gosh, ban list is unmanageable00:57
DocScrutinizer05 /cs why #devuan FatPhil01:05
DocScrutinizer05[2 Jul 2019 01:05:17] [Notice] -ChanServ- FatPhil has no special access to #devuan.01:05
DocScrutinizer05*shrug* should work01:07
mintyG'day from New Zealand everyone! I upgraded from Jessie to ASCII & I have lost my GUI. Any help gratefully accepted.01:10
onefangDid you look in the back of the couch?01:11
onefangWhich GUI?01:11
mintyonefang: EVERYONE! I only have a test prompt?01:12
mintyoops text01:12
mintylast time Ii looked in the back of the couch i turned into a potato....trapped for 3x days until the fire brigade freed me...01:13
OneManHateGroupI'm desparately trying to get my monitors to stretch instead of mirroring. Ready with pastebin for outputs.03:11
OneManHateGroupthat's "lshw -c video"03:13
plasma41OneManHateGroup: What desktop environment are you using? In Xfce, multi-monitor settings can be manipulated with the xfce4-display-settings program.03:14
OneManHateGroupSorry, is this even the correct room for an issue concerning  getting multiple monitors to work?03:14
OneManHateGroupaight... lemme see if I got that one03:15
plasma41OneManHateGroup: If you don't, install the xfce4-settings package to get it.03:16
minty I upgraded from Jessie to ASCII & I have lost my GUI. Any help gratefully accepted.03:24
plasma41minty: What desktop environment were you using?03:26
mintyplasma41: I tried startx but no joy...03:27
plasma41minty: try running tasksel as root and select the MATE option.03:27
mintyplasma41: ok brb03:28
plasma41afk. mention my nick to get my attention03:37
mintyplasma41: "Unable to connect to server: connection refused"03:39
OneManHateGroupplasma - my display settings won't see both monitors03:39
OneManHateGroup@plasma41 Is there a way to re initiate the X so that it detects monitors again?03:40
mintyplasma41: oops! Xserver ^^^03:41
OneManHateGroupIt's not bad, I just  need to get multiple monitors going.03:41
plasma41minty: What program gave that output?03:47
plasma41OneManHateGroup: Try rebooting. (I know there's got to be a better way to do it, but I don't know it offhand) Make sure the video cable are properly connected.03:49
OneManHateGroupplasma41 -- That is a nogo04:02
fsmithredOneManHateGroup, try lxrandr04:02
OneManHateGroupstill mirrored with crappy resoluvioun04:02
plasma41afk, back in ~2004:03
fsmithredpretty sure xfce display settings don't handle dual monitors in ascii04:03
golinuxfsmithred: You beat me yo it.04:03
fsmithredit does work in beowulf, so you have that to look forward to04:03
fsmithred(posted from monitor #2)04:04
OneManHateGrouplxrandr only sees one monitor also04:04
golinuxThat questionwas asked on the forum today also04:04
fsmithredoh, bad resolution might mean that you need to specify the driver04:05
fsmithredin xorg.con04:05
fsmithredwhat vid card do you have?04:05
fsmithredor you might need to install firmware04:05
brocashelmwhen was the last public release of devuan? and, how is progress on beowulf?04:06
OneManHateGroupI think it might be a problem with myasrock  board04:06
fsmithredmake sure xserver-xorg-video-intel is installed04:06
fsmithreddevuan ascii was released a year ago04:07
fsmithredbeowulf is coming along. Some of the major desktop stuff is working (policykit, elogind, eudev)04:07
brocashelmcool. i'm going to wait for that one before i make the switch04:08
fsmithredwhat are you switching from?04:08
brocashelmmint 18.304:08
fsmithredif you're thinking of migrating that install to devuan, it might work, but a clean install would be a lot easier.04:09
brocashelmi've used devuan before. had random troubles with things like network manager and package conflicts (i was barred from mount permissions for just removing slim)04:10
brocashelmdidn't feel it was worth it yet04:10
brocashelmand i couldn't get the blazing fast mouse acceleration04:10
fsmithredmy personal choice is to stay away from slim04:10
brocashelmit came out of the box and i wanted it gone04:10
fsmithredyeah, I know04:11
brocashelmi use startx (xfce)04:11
fsmithredI will again petition to change that04:11
fsmithredok, so you'll need to either have elogind or xserver-xorg-legacy and set X to run as root.04:11
fsmithredthat's A or (b and c)04:12
fsmithredit's explained in the ascii release notes04:13
XenguyAnyone know if the recent security updates for ssl and firefox will come straight through, or need to be devuanized?04:36
XenguyI'm assuming straight down the pipe04:37
fsmithredright. we don't mess with those.04:38
XenguyThanks, I keep adjusting my sources.list based on tips I see here in this channel04:42
fsmithredboth pkgmaster and packages are working properly now04:44
fsmithredso deb.devuan and auto.mirror should both be good04:44
fsmithredthere might be a couple of mirrors with some glitches04:45
fsmithredyou're in US?04:45
XenguyLook like it's currently set to auto.mirror, but I think that is redirecting to something else now.  Works fine.04:45
mintyplasma41: ^^^ program was startx produced "Unable to connect to Xserver: connection refused"04:46
fsmithredminty try startx as root04:46
mintytail of /var/log/Xorg.0.log had (EE)s04:47
fsmithredif it works I can tell you how to fix it04:47
mintyfsmithred: I did04:47
fsmithredyou got that error as root?04:47
mintyfsmithred: lol! TKU04:47
mintyor at least sudo04:48
fsmithredpretty sure that should work too04:48
mintyFATAL SERVER ERROR: 204.824 (EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 004:49
fsmithreddid you try tasksel and reinstall mate?04:49
mintyfsmithred: Do you mean to uninstal it then reinstal?04:50
fsmithreddon't need to uninstall04:50
fsmithredjust run tasksel as root in terminal and check the boxes you want04:51
mintyWell it's installed + default + Cinnamon04:51
fsmithredhow did you get cinnamon?04:51
mintybut when I reboot I keep getting the same (EE) Error?04:52
mintyfsmithred: I just pressed spacebar on it04:52
fsmithredok, so you have mate and cinnamon installed?04:52
XenguyYeah, try MATE instead?04:53
mintyyes but the Xserver keeps refusing to run04:53
fsmithredyes, I understand that you can't get to a desktop04:53
mintyfsmithred: yes04:53
fsmithredyou didn't happen to notice what got removed when you upgraded, did you?04:53
mintyfsmithred: sorry - no04:54
fsmithredprobably polkit backend crap. I think those desktops might be incompatible. Not sure.04:54
XenguyBroken install, what else can you do?04:55
plasma41minty: I've found the Cinnamon task to be finicky. I couldn't get it to work as-is and replacing lightdm with slim (+ all associated deps) fixed for me. If you don't intend to use Cinnamon, I'd recommend deselecting it in tasksel.04:55
mintyplasma41: ok tku brb04:56
fsmithredyup, mate wants slim and consolekit, cinnamon wants lightdm and elogind04:57
fsmithredconsolekit and elogind won't get along with each other04:57
fsmithreddpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|policykit|polkit|elogind|libpam"04:59
fsmithredthen paste the output somewhere04:59
plasma41fsmithred: I don't make any changes to that whole group of packages outside of aptitude. Trying to satisfy all those dependencies and conflicts without aptitude's interactive resolver is a major pain.05:04
fsmithredit's much easier to stick to one desktop05:09
plasma41This is currently very true05:09
fsmithredand if you do want more than one, it would be easier to install all the parts instead of using the task- packages05:09
fsmithredbecause of dependencies05:10
fsmithredminty, you still here? Since you can't paste the output, redirect it to a file, and then that can be sent somewhere we can see it.05:17
mintyfsmithred: I found the Error online at & I am going to try & modify xorg.conf?05:23
minty   AddScreen/ScreenInit05:26
fsmithredthere's no xorg.conf to modify05:27
fsmithredyou can make one, but I'm not sure that's the problem05:27
fsmithredthere might be more than one cause for that message05:29
fsmithredScroll down to the section on Session Management -
fsmithredI need to go to sleep05:30
fsmithredmake sure you have the right libpolkit-gobject and libpolkit-backend05:31
fsmithredalso make sure you're not missing any xorg package. You might have lost something during the upgrade.05:31
fsmithredgood luck.05:31
mintyfsmithred: TKU VMUCH nighty-night05:37
FatPhilis there a problem (apart from not being recommended) with jessie-backports? g/f says she can't download any package updates on her lappy.06:06
drawkulalooks like a problem here too06:32
drawkulain a jessie-VM06:32
drawkula                      │ Bjornn06:32
drawkulanervous mouse finger06:33
gnarfaceFatPhil: i think Debian is about to kill off jessie upstream07:44
gnarfacethat might be a good reason to get off it or quickly mirror it07:45
gnarfacei wouldn't expect backports or security updates to persist indefinitely07:45
gnarfaceit will even only be available on their servers as "oldstable" for a limited time07:46
omniofolks, does someone have some experience installing devuan on a JFS or XFS filesystem? It seems that if I choose to install on anything else than ext3, it fails to boot08:17
gnarfaceXFS is working for me, though i'm not sure i tried it from the installer08:18
omnioI'm talking about the installation DVD, not about the live one (the live one lets you choose only between ext2, ext3, ext4)08:18
omnioI see08:18
gnarfacewhat errors to do you get when it fails to boot?08:19
gnarfaceif you're using grub, make sure to remove "quiet" from /etc/default/grub to see the full text output of the boot process08:21
gnarfacealso, did you use LVM, RAID, LUKS, or some combination of the three?  it might not have anything to do with the filesystem, per-se08:22
omnioit seems that the classical installer (not refracta) doesn't like me much, the only successful install I made with it was on an ext3 partition. Last evening I chose ext4 and the error is now "error: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found."08:23
omniono LVM and all that stuff, no /boot partition, just one plain ext4 / partition08:24
omnioI guess I'll just use the refracta installer and ext4, but I was wondering if someone else has had problems with this08:25
gnarfaceomnio: this is the Ascii install DVD, as in Devuan 2.0, right?08:35
gnarfaceshould work, but the issue rings a bell...08:36
gnarfacei'm wondering if you have an old version08:36
gnarfaceor if there's some uefi complication08:36
gnarfacedo you have the package "grub-pc-bin" installed there?08:37
omnioI don't use uefi on this old machine... google seems to show a lot of results for this error08:38
omniohold on, I have to boot another distro and chroot in order to check that08:39
gnarfaceare you sharing the machine with Windows?08:39
omniono, with Mageia on a different hard disk08:41
gnarfacehmm, so it's conceivable this issue is more to do with it's grub install than the one devuan came with?08:42
omnioMageia installed its grub on the MBR of its disk, and so did Devuan (on its disk)08:43
omnio(on separate disks)08:43
gnarfaceright, but unless you're changing the boot order of the physical disks in the BIOS, then the grub that loads is whichever is on the first disk the bios sees08:44
omnioand I'm trying to boot devuan with devuan's grub that devuan installer installed on the devuan disk :)08:45
omnioright, that;s what I do -> BIOS08:45
gnarfaceoh.  so it still fails if you tell the BIOS that the devuan disk is the first disk?08:45
gnarfacewell, do see about that grub-pc-bin package08:46
gnarfaceyou've got a devuan install from DVD that hasn't booted yet, so it's conceivable this bug has been fixed long ago and you just need to get your network up so you can patch08:46
gnarface(i don't know how long ago you downloaded that DVD, but FYI for the future, the netinstall is usually a better long-term solution if you plan to have a network handy, because it will patch itself during install)08:47
gnarfacethe DVD sets are more intended as a convenience for un-networked systems08:48
omnioyes, grub-pc-bin is installed. No, it's not that, I downloaded the DVD just a couple of days ago. I also did a netinstall yesterday but that fails too if I choose something else than ext308:49
gnarfacedo you have grub-pc too?08:50
gnarfaceand grub-common and/or grub2-common?08:50
gnarfacefor that matter, do you see the actual file it's complaining about anywhere?  /boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod  or /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod?08:50
gnarfacethe real mystery here is what happened to that file08:50
omnioyes, I have grub-pc and grub-common08:51
omnionevermind, I'll just use the refracta installer on this old machine. Thanks anyway!08:51
gnarfaceaww come on08:52
gnarfaceat least finish answering my questions08:52
gnarfaceneither of us learn anything this way08:52
gnarfaceyou cited a boot failure ending in an error about a missing file and you still haven't even explicitly confirmed whether the file exists on your system or not08:52
omniohehe, sure, but it feels like some hard-to-hunt installer bug08:52
gnarface99% of the difficulty here is your methodology08:53
gnarfaceor lack thereof08:53
omniooh, let me check for that file08:54
gnarfacei see it here in both ascii and ceres08:54
gnarfacein fact i have TWO copies each08:55
gnarfaceon ein /boot/grub/i386-pc and one in /usr/lib/grub/i386-pv08:55
omniono, there is no norma.mod file :( as I said, and installer bug08:56
gnarfacewell, it should definitely be there08:56
omniosure, but I'm tired after 10 attempts to install in different combinations. So it looks like either I choose the refracta installer, or the classical installer with ext3 which seems to work08:58
gnarfacewell do what you want, but i'm not satisfied with your causal analysis08:58
gnarfacejust out of curiosity, if you run "update-grub" as root while chrooted into that install, does it start working then?08:59
gnarfaceat issue is figuring out how you could be having an issue that nobody else has08:59
gnarfacewhile it's possible entirely to be a bug in the installer, the fact most people aren't running into this issue suggests it's something different you did09:00
gnarfacemy google searches about this all seem to point to ubuntu users sharing a computer with a Windows install though09:00
gnarfaceso that suggests this is more related to grub and dual-boot installations than anything specific about the DVD installer you used09:01
gnarfacesorry you'd already tried beating your head against a wall 10x first09:03
gnarfacefyi there's the additional option of debootstrap installation too though09:03
omnioupdate-grub worked fine, I rebooted but I get the same error. I don't know, maybe there's something strange about the hardware of this machine09:04
omnioit's ancient09:04
gnarfaceit could be something strange about the BIOS behavior itself that is complicating this, yes.  if, for example, the BIOS re-numbers the boot drives after POST, that can confuse grub quite royally09:05
gnarfacethe thing about only ext3 working is weird though, i suspect just a red herring09:05
gnarfacein fact, i think the right changes to the grub config should fix this though it's not beyond the realm of possibility you're still missing a package09:06
gnarfacewhat might be causing you confusion in fact might just be unexpected interations between the two different grub installs you ahve on your separate drives09:06
gnarfaceyou might need to set them both up to play nice09:06
omnionow that you said it, it seems likely to me too that it's about the BIOS09:07
gnarfacei've used multiple grub installs before but usually chainloading isn't worth the trouble unless you're doing something fancy09:07
gnarfaceyou shouldn't need two grub installs at all09:07
gnarfaceyour two linux installs should be able to share a single grub09:07
gnarfacei admit i've still thrown my hands up and used lilo instead on some old Dell computers just because of infuriatingly misbehaved BIOSes09:08
omnioI'm not chainloading, I use separate grubs installed on separate MBR's to boot separate distros09:09
gnarfacewell if you can actually see that it's renaming/renumbering the drives in some bad way, fixing it might be as simple as a 1-digit change to both grub configs09:09
gnarfacei don't know why there's a mnemonic flag in my head about efi firmware related to this grub-pc missing file thing09:10
gnarfaceis this a machine that fully predates UEFI or was it one of those transitional ones that can boot in either BIOS/Legacy or (U)EFI mode?09:11
omnioI see. Well, there is one more test that I didn't do and it would clarify things a bit, to leave just one disk in the machine and install only devuan on it. If that fails too it seems likely to be some hardware/BIOS issue09:12
omnioNo, legacy only09:12
gnarfacethat would be a good test but if you do it make sure you start from a cold boot09:12
gnarfaceas in power down, unplug the power, count 10 seconds after all the LEDs go out, etc09:12
gnarface(misbehaved BIOSes can cache some of that hardware configuration, so stuff you've removed can still cause issues)09:13
omnioHeh, I see. I'll try this these days. I'm exhausted. Thanks for all the help!09:14
gnarfaceyea no problem.  sorry i couldn't help more09:15
gnarfacei strongly advise you don't give up on it though.  these types of mysteries are usually really important to solve in order to inform your future purchasing decisions09:16
omnio(a freakin' crappy old machine and tons of people wasting their time with it...)09:16
gnarfacebut figuring out why it's not working might help many others09:16
gnarfacethere's a limited amount of patterns of this type of misbehavior, it's really important to accurately assign blame, rather than just assuming something09:18
omniowell, I'm so happy that I found devuan that is actually usable (as speed) on this old machine, that I'll go with whatever install combination works :)09:18
gnarfacewell, if ext3 works fine i don't blame you09:18
gnarfacei just don't think that should have anything to do with it, so it would be valuable for me to know if it's true or not09:19
gnarfacealso, i really like XFS09:19
gnarfacei think you would too if you experienced how much faster it is on that hardware09:19
gnarfaceit's a worthy cause09:20
omnioI don't know, I chose JFS because it's said to have the lowest CPU load => probably good for an old CPU09:20
gnarfaceXFS has great read times, i don't know much about JFS09:21
gnarfaceXFS also is the only one that is multi-threaded09:22
gnarfacebut if you only have a single CPU core that may not help you much09:22
gnarfaceit's a really smart choice for a core2duo system though09:23
omniothe mageia install I have on the other disk is on JFS, the fs operations seem pretty fast but the os is still sluggish compared to devuan, I guess it's because of systemd. Also, they compiled "strangely" their 32 bit packages, some fail with the "Illegal instruction" error, I guess they passed SSE and SSE2 flags that my CPU doesn't have09:24
omnioit's not that case of devuan/debian, where everything works09:24
omnio32 packages, I mean09:24
omnio*32 bit09:24
gnarfaceit could be systemd at fault but it's hard to say.  a lot can be said just for default package selections09:25
gnarfacelike how much stuff they load you down with extra that you're not using09:25
gnarfacenot just systemd but other userspace daemons09:25
gnarfaceall that cruft that comes along with gnome or kde for example09:25
omnioI know, that's first thing I looked at. I just use LXQT and stopped pretty much all the daemons09:26
gnarfacethis place will start to get more crowded in about 6-8 hours09:30
gnarfacei think09:30
gnarfacei'll help you more with it whenever you're ready, but usually i'm not the only one here, too09:31
gnarfaceand don't uh... devalue that hardware in your mind.  it's a worthwhile endeavor to figure out how to make this machine behave.  hardware that predates speculative execution vulnerabilities is bound to spike in value...09:34
omniothanks a lot :) yeah, but the problem is that the old motherboards just die after a while mainly because of capacitor failures, so I don't know how long they'll be around...09:37
omnio*for how long09:37
FatPhilgnarface: are the other devuan releases more independent on debian - being dependent on the thing you broke away from really isn't breaking away, after all.09:42
FatPhilI think I did a jessie-ascii upgrade on one of my boxes without hitch, I'll recommend that to her when she can afford the downtime (she's only on that old laptop because her main box imploded, and has work pressures).09:44
omnioI guess that being completely independent would mean to have the manpower to maintain 100000000000 packages10:02
gnarfaceomnio: capacitors aren't supposed to fail normally.  there's just a period of a couple bad years of hardware10:09
gnarfacedue to an actual temporary loss of the secret recipe, according to the story i heard10:09
onefangAnd can be fixed.  Did that on my monitor.10:10
gnarfaceFatPhil: i don't really know if there's a good answer to that question but the idea was NOT to change Debian, and this is the cheapest most direct way to do that10:11
gnarfaceright now there wouldn't really be enough resources to support a full fork, but most the packages are untouched by systemd anyway, so a full fork shouldn't be necessary unless ... Debian were to start directly blocking Devuan users from repo access or something like that10:12
gnarfaceand i don't know if that wouldn't happen but i would imagine they'd still make an effort to keep most the packages the same unless absolutely necessary10:13
gnarfacenot just to save cost, but also to maintain compatibility10:14
gnarfacethat's just my guess though10:14
FatPhilah, so was she actually attempting to hit a debian server via a devuan url?10:14
onefangI think directly blocking Devuan users from Debian repos would be a tad tricky.  lol10:14
gnarfaceFatPhil: that's the way it works10:15
gnarfaceFatPhil: amprolla is using HTTP redirects i think...\10:16
FatPhilah - thanks, I wasn't aware of that, I thought you were mirroring10:16
gnarfaceno it's not a full mirror10:16
gnarfaceonly the packages that are actually changed are actually on the devuan mirrors10:16
gnarfacethe rest of the downloads are redirected to debian servers10:16
onefangSome of the mirrors have a full mirror of Devuan and Debian, usually to ones that had Debian mirror already.  Others use redirects.10:17
FatPhilOK, I'll try to get the thing dist-upgraded to ascii sooner rather than later then.10:19
FatPhilDoesn't this setup mean you have to kinda run in lock-step with the debian distros?10:19
gnarfacethat's the idea, but in practice devuan runs a few weeks behind on major releases10:20
FatPhileep, I notice I'm running jessie here too. mote, plank, etc.10:20
FatPhilAnyone have any idea why xrandr doesn't even list a VGA output on a EeePC lappy? I'm used to seeing such things as 'disconnected' on other machines, never not listed at all.10:45
gnarfaceno driver support maybe10:47
Human_G33kanything in dmesg related ?10:47
gnarfacesomething about missing firmware maybe?10:48
FatPhilug, g/f's gone silent for a moment, and I can't work out how to SSH in from here.10:52
FatPhilIt's a horribly crappy intel graphics chipset on the board, strangely behaving differently when it comes to h/w 2D scaling between debian jessie and devuan jessie, IIRC. pure junk, IMHO, but it's the machine we have, so we have to make do.10:54
gnarfacerecently they changed a default so it might be using the kvm driver instead of the intel driver unless you specify something in the xorg config10:55
gnarfacesorry, driver i mean the kms driver10:56
gnarfaceas opposed to "intel"10:56
gnarfaceor something like that10:56
FatPhilI'll be in the office this afternoon (and it's approaching lunchtime now) so will be able to be more hands-on with the machine (got 3 buggers to fix now, it seems like 2019 is the year of PC doom for me)11:00
FatPhildmesg doesn't go far enough back to boot time, alas. But when we removed -updates, we did a kernel downgrade, so a reboot is pending (and the problem may magically disappear)11:04
FatPhillspci identifies it as: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Atom Processor D2xxx/N2xxx Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)11:05
gnarfaceoh, integrated into atom processor hmm11:09
FatPhilI notice lsmod shows: drm                   207600  3 drm_kms_helper,gma500_gfx11:09
gnarfacewell i guess i don't know for sure the intel driver even supports that one.  i know it doesn't actually support all of them, and this could be one of those.11:10
gnarfaceit would be pretty easy to test though11:10
gnarfacethere would be obvious changes to the Xorg log and the display behavior11:11
gnarfaceoh but wait11:13
gnarfacedid it used to use the intel driver?11:13
gnarfaceif so i would expect it would still work11:13
gnarfaceso in that case it's probably just because kms is the default if you don't specify anything11:14
FatPhilOK, off to lunch, then to office after that.11:15
FatPhilhmmm, I don't see anything to do with VGA in the Xorg.log11:15
gnarfacemake sure it's the right log file11:19
gnarfacecould be in /var/log or .local/share/xorg now11:20
gnarfacesorry ~/.local/share/xorg i mean11:20
gnarfacelook for modeset or kms11:20
FatPhilgnarface: (EE) Failed to load module "modesetting" (module does not exist, 0)12:33
gnarfacewait is that after you edited xorg.conf or without any changes?12:34
FatPhilI don't have an xorg.conf per se, there are three default  confs in the .d directory12:37
gnarfaceok, that's what i wanted to make sure of, that you were getting that error stock12:37
FatPhiloh, we didn't do the reboot yet, as alas work still needs to be done for nagging clients.12:39
FatPhilhowever, my h/w switcheroo for broken machine 2 seems to be working, so that's 1/3 for the day.12:40
FatPhilonce that passes a quick burn-in, it will liberate the laptop, and I should be able to ascii-fy it.12:41
FatPhilwhich means it's time to turn attention to broken machine 3... Again, crappy crappy hardware is to blame I'm sure. But DHCPC does seem to be at fault too. It ignores the flags I've set in /etc/defaults12:42
AEonFyrIs there any info on the recent openssl update? Changelog @ just 404's12:46
gnarfaceFatPhil: tried a different dhcp client for that?12:46
FatPhilgnarface: that's the next thing I'll do - I hate the default bloaty one and all its deps, so went for the busybox one instead.12:49
FatPhilalas this zotac dvr takes about 70s to actually turn on its ETH PHY, and the dhcpc times out before an address can be fetched12:51
FatPhilyes, I do power my office with junk that falls off the back of a dustcart.12:52
FatPhilMy oldest machine is a 32bit Athlon XP2800+ from ~200212:56
FatPhillet's call that 2/3-ish, as the ISC dhcpc did get an IP address13:12
FatPhilI wonder why udhcpc wasn't playing ball. the udhcpc_opts setting in /e/n/interfaces seemed to be completely ignored.13:14
* AEonFyr researched that the latest openssl update is to fix CVE-2019-154313:17
fsmithredAEonFyr, openssl 1.1.0k-1~deb9u1 (patched) is in ascii-security13:47
FatPhilArse, 2 steps forward, 1 step back - replacement PSU didn't stop spontanious reboots, presume h/w is proper borked on machine 2.14:09
cehtehold caps, fscked thermal paste, graphics drivers?14:21
gnarfaceyea what about heat?14:22
FatPhilit was freshly hoovered, and had the lid off (and with a honking heat sink and fan on the CPU, nothing was even vaguely warm to the touch.14:23
FatPhilOnly started dying last week, and now it's every few hours. Might be a cap.14:24
FatPhilthe machine is moribund anyway, it's over a decade old.14:25
HumanGeekis tor mirror down ?15:08
HumanGeekCenturion_Dan, you did a systemd conf file translator ?15:09
AEonFyrfsmithred, thanks. I saw it there and was wondering what is being fixed, but couldn't find an online changelog. Eventually installed the update and read the included changelog to find out. :)15:39
golinuxgnarface:  jessie will not be dead until 2020.17:18
gnarfacenoted golinux, thanks17:22
golinuxgnarface: I still keep track of the Debian forum so thank sunrat over on FDN.17:31
golinuxonefang: I'm curious about your statement that some of the mirrors have a full mirror of Devuan and Debian.  That may be true but is the Debian mirror actually connected to Devuan?  I have never heard of amprolla pointing to anything else than the Debian repos.17:36
proteusguylibressl in-compatibilities are giving me trouble upgrading some of my core systems. I need the latest Python 3.7.x but it isn't compatible: see  and . What's the best work around for people using Devuan?18:51
gnarfaceproteusguy: is it in backports?  check backports18:54
proteusguysorry devuan newbie here. how do I do that gnarface ?18:58
gnarfacesame way it works in debian19:00
* proteusguy is also a debian newbie. I don't know what backports is.19:00
gnarfacewell lemme see if it's even in there first...19:01
gnarfacenevermind proteusguy it doesn't matter because python isn't in backports19:01
proteusguyis there an alternate version of ssl?19:02
gnarfacebasically backports is a repo of extra updated stuff that isn't necessarily as well tested as the stuff actually released as stable19:02
proteusguyI see.19:02
proteusguyI just recently dropped Kubuntu 14.04 as it went end of life and was the last version to not have systemd. So I'm really hoping I can work with Devuan. But I'm a dev and actually do need a newer version of Python than what's provided.19:03
gnarfaceyou can search the packages here19:03
gnarfacebut basically for the most part it's gonna be the same as debian19:04
slvrI like running the newest ubuntu in an lxc container, safely isolated from my working system.19:04
proteusguyhow does one get apt to point to backports?19:04
gnarfaceproteusguy: you can always run the unstable version to get a more recent python19:04
gnarfaceyou'd add it to the /etc/apt/sources.list file, re-run "apt-get update" and then add "-t ascii-backports" to subsequent apt-get and apt-cache commands19:05
FatPhilgeneric linux Q: having some trub changing a user's uid and (unique) gid simultaniously. Found 2 horrible workarounds, is there something simpler:19:05
proteusguygnarface, I see. pardon the ignorance but what actually do I add to the sources.list file?19:06
FatPhil1) groupmod, find -exec chown, then usermod; 2) create new group, usermod -g, delete old group, rename new group to old name19:07
gnarfaceproteusguy: deb ascii-backports main19:07
gnarfaceproteusguy: and: deb-src ascii-backports main19:07
gnarfaceproteusguy: (see here:
proteusguygnarface, many thanks!19:07
gnarfaceproteusguy: comment it out and re-run "apt-get update" again when you're done with it.  you don't want to leave it on in general for normal upgrades19:08
proteusguyI se19:08
proteusguyI see19:08
gnarfaceproteusguy: and you only need it for stable (ascii).  if you were to upgrade to unstable (ceres) then you'd have newer packages already19:08
proteusguyis ceres fairly stable or are breaks expected?19:09
FatPhilproteusguy: the docs are pretty good, easily copy-pasteable, and found very easily by google:
gnarfaceproteusguy: it breaks sometimes, just like debian unstable19:09
gnarfaceproteusguy: usually at the same time19:10
gnarfaceproteusguy: if you're a developer i think you could handle it anyway if you just keep backups19:10
Katnjiaproteusguy, dealt with the same yesterday; you got the choice of installing the Python version you want manually, or you'll have to consider this:
proteusguyI found python3-openssl in the backports. hoping that may solve the problem.19:14
Akuliproteusguy, do you want to install a python?19:35
Akulinevermind i found your first message19:36
Akuliinstalling a python from source is not very difficult either, if you want to do that (you just need to know a few things, e.g. --prefix=$HOME/.local)19:36
proteusguyAkuli, getting all the dependencies right is a PITA. Right now trying to figure out how to deal with ctypes.19:37
proteusguyI seem to have gotten beyond the ssl issue described above.19:38
Akulino, it isn't19:38
Akuli$ sudo apt-get build-dep python3-minimal python3-dev19:38
Akulior something like taht19:38
Akuliother hints:  you can speed up compilation by passing -j2 to make, pass --prefix=$HOME/.local to ./configure (run ./configure again if you didn't do that), don't use sudo when you 'make install'19:41
Akulioh and don't 'make install'19:41
Akuliinstead do 'make altinstall' so it won't override the system's python319:41
proteusguyI'm using make altinstall19:41
proteusguyhmm... looks like same issues. No _ctypes.19:42
proteusguyThis is python 3.7.319:42
Akulilet me try to compile a python 3.7 too19:43
Akuliyou may need to run ./configure again after installing dependencies19:44
Akuli(remember --prefix)19:44
proteusguyyep I do a make clean and then a fresh configure.19:45
proteusguywhat's the --prefix do?19:45
Akuliit tells it to install it into your home folder19:45
Akuliso you won't screw up anything system-wide, no matter what you do19:45
proteusguyI think the make altinstall takes care of that for me.19:45
Akuliit makes it not create an executable called 'python3', but still installs to a place where you need sudo to uninstall it19:46
Akulialso there is no 'make uninstall' :D19:46
Akulican you show the last 30 lines or so of output from make?19:47
proteusguyYeah I'm updating some stuff... few minutes.19:47
Akulii just compiled python 3.7.2 and ran it, ctypes imports nicely19:48
proteusguyweird. here's my steps I've taken:
proteusguyignore the 3.6.3 stuff...19:49
proteusguyAnd I do: ./configure --enable-optimizations --with-ensurepip=install instead.19:50
Akuliyou don't need to install it to see whether it works19:51
Akulican you show the end of make? it should tell you which things are missing19:52
proteusguyresults of my build:
proteusguyresults of make altinstall:
Akulisudo apt install liblzma-dev libgdbm-dev libsqlite3-dev tcl-dev tk-dev libffi-dev19:55
proteusguyhmm... I actually seem to have a "working" python3.7. gets me a repl anyway.19:55
Akuligives a repl but will not import all the stuff that is "missing"19:55
Akuliinstall those things and try again19:55
proteusguythat's much better... still missing _abc atexit pwd and time.19:59
proteusguysudo make altinstall was clean.20:00
Akulihmm i wonder why those fail to build :D20:01
Akuliare you sure? show output20:01
Akuliyou can also try importing those20:01
Akuliproteusguy, it says that the modules have been built, your new python seems to be ok :)21:07
proteusguyappreciate the help Akuli!21:18
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: so everything OK with IRC now?21:21
DocScrutinizer05(cleaned out two legacy +V, no worries)21:24
FatPhilDocScrutinizer05: it seems so, it was simply a case of leaving and rejoining. Seems like a server bug more than a client bug.22:25
FatPhilAnyone remember NIS? I'm having a spot of bother setting up a replacement ypserver for one of my dead crates. make in /var/yp just barfs "failed to send 'clear' to local ypserv: RPC: Program not registered"22:27
FatPhilherpderp - filed to set NISSERVER=master in /e/d/nis22:59

Generated by 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!