freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-07-11

FatPhilwhat's all this with /run/user/$UID tmpfss? Who creates those, and is it configurable?09:10
FatPhilThings that make you go hmmm... "/run/user/$uid is created by pam_systemd ...".09:18
FatPhil"Should mention that it is called $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, documented at"09:22
FatPhil2 blanks here:09:22
FatPhilroot@thotspaz:~# find /etc -type f -print | xargs grep '/run/user/'09:22
FatPhilroot@thotspaz:~# find /etc -type f -print | xargs grep 'XDG_RUNTIME_DIR'09:22
FatPhiland: root@thotspaz:~# dpkg -S pam_systemd09:23
FatPhildpkg-query: no path found matching pattern *pam_systemd*09:23
* drawkula would prefer eacxh user to have her own ~/tmp, ~/run, ~/var, ... and even ~/etc instead of those silly dotfiles09:47
drawkulasoemeday, when I'm boared to death, I might try to prototype a system that way...09:47
drawkulaist shure will not even be a sidenote in unix's history...09:48
drawkulabut the FS is self similar in several other places. I never understood why this had to stop in the users' dirs!09:48
drawkulaaaaaand a package manager for user packages would be nice to have too!09:49
FatPhilhaving it host-specific does make sense, as I'm in ~ from 5 different hosts currently, and they musn't tread on each other's toes.09:49
helios21hi. well I think the FHS is pretty borked anyway09:50
drawkulathan have hostid subdirs...09:50
drawkulaI gave up sharing $HOME09:50
drawkulatoo risky09:50
FatPhilI think there's some smell no matter where you put such things.09:50
drawkulasomeone said Kmail would trash all mail if you use a shaed home and dare to start 2 MUAs09:51
FatPhilprograms like firefox really don't cope well with the concept of shared home (and multiple instances of themself running)09:51
drawkulabut that was in KDE3 days09:51
drawkula$THEY trashed unix years ago09:52
drawkulathe console only beards only needed time to notice it09:52
FatPhilSome of us are still shouting at clouds...09:52
drawkulamy cloud is named sdf.org09:54
gnarfacei think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.  XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is being set somewhere to /run/user/whatever.  if you don't set it it defaults to /tmp/$USER09:55
gnarfaceor something like that09:55
gnarfacejust figure out what is setting it to something you don't like, and change it09:55
gnarfaceit's not being put anywhere in /run/ here, so whatever is doing it to you guys is something optional you requested yourself09:56
FatPhildrawkula: I've gone one up - my cloud is called asdf.org09:57
gnarface(probably a window manager with obscene ties to would be my guess)09:57
FatPhilgnarface: I can't see that setting anywhere - I grepped all over /etc for it09:57
gnarfaceFatPhil: it might be in your WM configuration09:58
gnarfaceit might actually be getting set from something that your WM runs at startup09:58
FatPhilI do notice libpam_systemd is installed, I might try to purge that and see if it makes a difference09:58
gnarfaceor it might have been added to your login scripts in ~/ even i don't know for sure09:58
gnarfacei don't have libpam_systemd here09:59
gnarfacebut it is ceres so ymmv09:59
FatPhilthe whole concept of modifying scripts in a ~/ that is shared by half a dozen machines to be a frightening concept.10:01
FatPhilmodulo grammar10:01
FatPhilhmm, actually that package isn't installed. got led down a blind alley.10:03
gnarfacesure but it builds character :)10:03
FatPhilcould it be consolekit that's making those tmpfss?10:03
gnarfacei really don't know but i wouldn't bet against it.  i don't have that installed here either.  (not using graphical login)10:03
gnarfaceand i'm pretty sure i've never seen enlightenment (any version) or blackbox set XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to anything outside of /tmp.  actually i recalled it usually being undefined and seeing a warning about it but i'm seeing here with a freshly updated ceres that something has defined it to /tmp/[some random string]10:05
gnarfacewhat WM are you using?  did you check it for an environment variables configuration panel?10:06
FatPhilI have no idea why consolekit was default selected - it brings in a whole load of crap. Seems to be pulled in by policykit, which is 'i A' on my system, apparently due to "elogind         Recommends policykit-1"10:07
gnarfacethat's ascii?10:07
gnarfacecheck the release notes10:07
gnarfaceit's the graphical login manager that is pulling all that in10:07
gnarfaceslim or lightdm or something like that10:08
gnarfacewhatever your window manager defaults to10:08
gnarfacethen it brings in some conflicting packages but you have to purge one of them10:09
helios21Now I found it in my training slides. Search engine (Google) completely failed me on that:
gnarfaceFatPhil: you should really read this whole thing ^ but at least read the part under "### Session management and policykit backends"10:10
helios21I like the filesystem layout proposed at
FatPhilgnarface: xdm there10:10
FatPhilwe don't do "Desktop Environment"s10:16
FatPhil{console,policy}kit gone. I don't think I need elogind either by the looks of it.10:21
gnarfacehmm. xdm may do something different, i'm not sure10:22
FatPhilAnything which says "Poettering touched me" I'm happier with it off the system. Alas the pulse cancer has metastasized too much.10:22
gnarfacemeh, i'm still getting by without it.10:23
FatPhillooks like xine and ffmpeg hard depend on lilbpulse10:23
gnarfaceah, but!10:23
gnarfacelibpulse does not hard depend on pulseaudio, the daemon10:23
gnarfaceso you can just uninstall or stop it10:23
gnarfacethough some people actually like what it does10:24
gnarfaceif you know enough about alsa with a couple extra shell tricks, you can get by without it for most things10:24
gnarfacethe one thing steam "requires" it for is pretty egregious too10:24
FatPhilOK, yeah, we don't have the daemon, by choice.10:24
gnarface(since you could basically do the same thing by piping arecord to aplay through netcat)10:25
FatPhilI know it solves some people's problems. You're lucky you prized OSS out of my cold dead hands and got me onto ALSA!10:25
FatPhilholy jeebus, my webserver's under a completely mindless attack at the moment. the URLs being requested are seemingly random. might be hard to fail2ban this guy...11:58
FatPhilone thing that is common is '.php' though, but I don't like configuring too many arbitrary rules.11:59
gnarfaceit is free traffic12:11
gnarfacejust redirect all 404 errors to a page with a bunch of banners :-p12:11
gnarfaceif they're trying to break in, that means they're looking at responses12:12
gnarfaceit also means you can just session cookie them and not give them a page unless they accept the cookie, then set a timer/counter on the server-side to also throttle the rate they can retry12:13
gnarfaceor just give them a max hit count, or something like that12:13
gnarfacei mean, if someone hits three dozen 404 errors in the space of 10 seconds, they're probably doing something abusive12:14
xinomilo_googlebot usually :P12:34
FatPhilmost of the probes were POST, so I might just forbid that on the server that serves /12:45
FatPhilit even tried a sql injection in the user-agent more than once!12:51
HumanG33khello one of you is good as setup postfix+dovecot+ldap ?14:13
HumanG33ki need a jedi master14:14
enycfsmithred: hrrm you aren't here ;p15:37
EvilhamHumanG33k: you'd do best to ask a concrete question instead of asking to ask
Evilhamlol, just found this by Rick:
fsmithredenyc, what's up?19:05
enycfsmithred: hrrm not sure if devuan specific, need to reboot and do more test,s,  having toruble with vlc video playback on upgraded-to-beowolf desktop19:09
enycpulseaudio was mentioned in errors, as was messages about vaapi19:09
enycthis is  'radeon'  card....19:09
enycpulseaudio seems to be sinstalled19:09
enycfsmithred: wantto  reboot, load latest kernel,  check boot logs, make clear observations, look up errors, first...  but thought i might meniton  as you sounded interested to see what goes wrong in practice19:10
James1138Here is where you can get the most up to date  kernels -
James1138They also work with Devuan.19:12
enycJames1138: hrrm long time since i tried an ubuntu kernel image on debian/devuan19:12
enycmint also provides kernel 5.x ...19:13
James1138Devuan loves it.19:13
enycI remember leaving kernel recompiles on  486 machine  overnight =)19:13
James1138I am running v4.9.184 but a new one just came out 7/10/2019.19:14
fsmithreddo liquorix kernels still exist?19:16
fsmithredthose would probably work in devuan, too. I know lots of debian folked used to use liq kernel19:17
fsmithredenyc, tell me a little about your upgrade. What desktop?19:19
James1138Most recent is v5.2/2019-07-08 00:0719:19
fsmithredI tried migrating stretch/kde to beowulf a couple days ago, and it was hell.19:19
fsmithredbecause of metapackages19:19
enycfsmithred: had MATE and xfce available on ascii,  i did a huge package clearup,  dev packages,  even removed task-mate-desktop and vairous mate and xfce packages ... lots of  atp-get --purge autoremove  and  deborphan | xargs dpkg -P  .......19:20
fsmithredI actually did get it to work after the fourth 'aptitude full-upgrade'19:20
enycfsmithred: ultivately dist-upgraded  into  beowulf19:20
enycfsmithred: and then, later,  installed  task-mate-desktop19:20
fsmithredok, sounds about right19:20
enycfsmithred: so i have beowulf  with  MATE  only19:20
enycwith all the mountains of packages i had' there was some arguing to get a dist-upgrade path but not  true breakage19:21
fsmithredI have a beowulf with xfce that works. Upgraded refracta/ascii (no metapackages)19:21
enychence i started  just removing swathes19:21
fsmithredwhen we get the task packages and desktop-base done, it should be easier.19:22
enyctask packages need doing because of different edvuan dependencies?19:22
enycso what sort of things colud be wrong with my beowulf installed pkg set?19:23
fsmithredsome packages might be missing and you might not notice right away.19:23
fsmithredthen try something and it doesn't work, some function is not there19:24
fsmithredif your user and shutdown/reboot from the desktop and can mount removable drives, you're doing well19:24
enycremovable dirves ok19:25
enycabout to test reboot from desktop19:25
fsmithredthe desktop you're using to talk to us here?19:25
fsmithredguess not19:26
pav5088How to I get the current bug list for beowulf?  "beowulf" as a tag doesn't seem to work in the bug tracking system.19:31
enycfsmithred: pulseaudio package installed, but not starting as part of user session ......19:35
enycfsmithred: in MATE19:35
enycfsmithred: this suspicious to me19:35
enycI appear to have much the same  pakcages with word "pulse" installed,  i kept  a backup of  COLUMNS=256 dpkg -l    flom ascii...19:36
enycI just no longer have libpulse-dev xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin ... and  now of  12.2-4 insntead of 10.0-1+deb9u1  versions largely19:37
James1138 you go Enyc -19:42
James1138For Buster / Beowulf -
fsmithredwill check my pulse pks in minute19:51
fsmithredlibpulse-mainloop-glib0:amd64 libpulse0:amd6419:54
fsmithredblueman Depends libpulse-mainloop-glib019:55
enycfsmithred: I have   gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libpulse0 libpulsedsp pulseaudio pulseaudio-utils20:23
enycbut nonetheless, a  pulseaudio *session* just isn't starting!20:23
fsmithredI have very little experience with pulse. There should be a setting in the config file (/etc/pulse-something)20:26
fsmithredand check the startup apps for the desktop. I don't recall where that is in mate.20:26
enycwell you see if wonder if that now relies on systemd-logind or some other systemd  session manager 'thing'20:27
fsmithredyou have consolekit?20:27
enycii  consolekit                             0.4.6-620:27
enycyes, and  login, logout, rebooting form menu,  mounting removables,  all works20:27
fsmithredwe have elogind, but it might be a pain to switch to that20:28
ba55is there a download for the beowulf iso?20:28
ba55i got an RC1 a while ago, dont see it now20:28
fsmithredno beowulf isos yet20:28
ba55ahh - i wonder if the RC was pulled20:28
fsmithredno, there's been no rc1 for beowulf20:28
ba55yeah there was lol20:29
fsmithredthere's been no beta for beowulf, and that will precede the rc20:29
fsmithredno, there wasn't20:29
ba55i ran it20:29
fsmithredif it said rc, then it must have been ascii20:29
fsmithredthere was a mini.iso20:29
fsmithredfor beowulf20:29
fsmithredand I'm pretty sure it no longer works because of kernel changes20:29
ba55got ya oh well20:29
ba55i built a new pc20:29
ba55i cant set it up yet till this comes out lol20:30
ba55want to do 100% fresh20:30
fsmithredif you really want beowulf, which isn't fully ready but can work just fine...20:30
ba55nah i can wait :)20:30
fsmithredinstall a bare ascii and upgrade20:30
fsmithredor use one of the derivatives that has a beowulf iso20:30
ba55i'm sure it will be out sooner than later20:30
ba55what do u mean by that second comment??20:31
fsmithredyeah, we should have installer isos soon20:31
fsmithredsome of the devuan derivative distros have beowulf isos20:31
fsmithredrefracta, miyolinux, I think gnuinos, and maybe star or crows (not sure)20:31
ba55ahh got ya - yeah ill hold off on those20:31
ba55i tried antix the other day20:31
fsmithredlol, ok20:31
ba55man thats a bitch20:32
fsmithredin what way?20:32
ba55for old slow pc's i get it20:32
ba55but its so basic20:32
ba55the window managers etc20:32
ba55i was just isntalling vm's seeing what other deb based distros without sysd looked like20:32
fsmithredsometimes using just a window manager is a relief.20:33
fsmithredvery little to go wrong with it20:33
fsmithredcheck back in a few weeks and we might have a beta20:34
fsmithredwe might all be on vacation20:34
ba55im counting on a few days for the iso ;)20:35
fsmithredoh, you haven't been here very long20:36
ba55ive been around under diff nicks20:36
fsmithredI can probably get desktop-base put together in a week or so, but all the task- packages need to be done20:37
ba55so how long after stretch came out, did ASCII release?20:37
fsmithreda year20:37
fsmithredwhich was half as late as jessie20:37
fsmithredand I'm counting on beowulf being half as late as ascii was20:37
ba55well then, maybe i should just go deb for now then switch when it's released :)20:38
fsmithredso, I feel confident we'll have a release before the end of the year20:38
ba55its nice to have someone give me legit answers, i appreciate it20:38
fsmithredI can tell you that the system is stable long before we get the installer isos debugged20:38
fsmithredstable in the sense of "it works"20:38
ba55so stable.... say i installed ascii and upgraded... is there gna be any major downsides u know of?20:39
ba55i got a laptop i can test on20:39
fsmithreddepends on how you installed ascii20:39
ba55i would do it as u instruct me to :p20:39
fsmithredif you selected a destkop environment from tasksel in the installer...20:39
fsmithredyou're in for a world of hurt20:39
ba55yeah so this machine im on , wont work20:39
ba55its MATE20:39
fsmithredif you installed your desktop environment in individual pieces...20:40
fsmithredupgrade won't be too bad20:40
enycfsmithred: hrrm pulseaudio -D  can just start pulse manually no rpoblem seemingl20:40
ba55alright so say, from fresh install - how would i do it?20:40
fsmithredif you install just a bare cli system, upgrade and then add desktop, it'll probably work pretty easily20:40
enycfsmithred: but i'm now locking-up on  vlc still,  screns black out,  etce tc20:40
ba55got ya20:40
ba55well if u feel like it, (or get time) pm me a list of what i need to do for the upgrade20:40
fsmithredmetapackages cause issues because not all the deps are ready20:41
ba55id be happy to try it and report back20:41
fsmithredcheck the guides for upgrade to ascii. It should be similar.20:41
ba55cool cool20:41
ba55wow it seems pretty simple20:43
fsmithredI've upgraded refracta to beowulf and it wasn't bad. It's xfce without metapackages.20:43
fsmithredI tried stretch/kde to beowulf a few days ago and it was hell.20:43
ba55so say i install fresh with no destop20:44
ba55THEN i can install mate20:44
ba55and it should be ok?20:44
enycba55: maybe ;p20:44
fsmithredyeah, pretty sure. I haven't tried mate in beowulf, but I think it's ready20:44
ba55heh well, when the rest of my parts show up today20:44
ba55i will be trying!20:44
fsmithredCandidate: 1.20.4-220:45
fsmithredmate-desktop ^^^20:45
enycba55: for me,  "pulseaudio -D" as user isn't auto starting20:45
enycba55: for me, i'm having video accell issues20:45
enycbut these may not be  devuan specific issues20:45
ba55hmm i dont use pulse audio anymore20:45
fsmithredenyc, do you normally use non-free vid drivers?20:46
enycfsmithred: no20:46
ba55i switched to JACK20:46
enycfsmithred: radeon20:46
ba55and audio has been superb20:46
* enyc removed the vaapi packages etc.20:46
fsmithredfirmware-amd-graphics is in non-free20:48
enycoooooooooooh hadn't considered that bit20:48
fsmithredyeah, a few people have run into problems without that20:49
ba55bbiab guys, gotta get back to work :/20:49
enycwell, i'm not using   user/kernel  non free driver20:49
enycunless you go to some  ... new risc architecture etc  you are rather stuck with thins ilke  intel microcode proprietary let alonge video !20:50
enycwithout  mesa/vdpau  driver whatnots,  vlc working now20:50
enycfsmithred: whyso wow?20:51
fsmithredusually you need to add that stuff to fix vid problems20:51
enycfsmithred: i'm going to leave it like this for now and see if other traditional issues i have had, go away20:51
enycfsmithred: even on ascii,  if i did alot of videos, usage, chormium, etc   iwould eventually get osme sort of  drm errors in kernel  nad general system crash20:52
enycwell, xorg/video crash  and genealyl reboot needed20:52
enycbe nice to see this new arrangement (even without vdpau accell) might actually be more reliable now!20:52
fsmithredI get that when I open too many browser tabs20:52
enycthe other thing i will re-try sooner or alter is  just phasing out chromium!20:53
enyca friend of mine has a sepratae cgroup/whatever and constrains chromium's ram  because otherwise it is like a gas that expands to fill all available....20:53
enycon my mx-linux on another disk,  i had firefox working preety well  ...20:53
fsmithredchoosing a browser these days is like choosing a president - whichever one you least want, pick the other20:54
slvrlinks has been good to me20:54
enycslvr: yes i used that too ;p20:54
enycslvr: lots of[something]  and maunalyl saving debs ;p20:54
guruIs beowulf stable enough in a production environment?21:46
enycguru: depends on your use case i suspect21:58
enycguru: a lot seems to work fine,  som fun with dependencies and desktops21:58
enyc19:38 < fsmithred> so, I feel confident we'll have a release before the end of the year21:59
enycfsmithred: btw, no, i have separate  dual-pentium-III thing with  old xen and screen sessions and allsorts ;p21:59
enycguru: very likely to be fine i suspect!22:01
enycguru: try it22:01
fsmithredpretty sure we don't mess with apache at all22:01
fsmithredor nginx22:02
enycof course, debian buster , and consequently devuan beowulf   is tried much less in production already , so you could choose to wait for next point release, or devuan formal release ...22:02
guruYeah seems like I should stick to ascii to be safe22:02
enycfsmithred: i guess the fun could come with ... removed or outdated/broken  sysvinit  start scripts22:02
fsmithredyeah, I don't know if they're removing them22:03
enycr_state [radeon]] *ERROR* rv770_restrict_performance_levels_before_switch failed22:03
enycradeon 0000:01:00.0: ring 0 stalled for more than 10208msec22:03
enycradeon 0000:01:00.0: GPU lockup (current fence id 0x0000000000049a5f last fence id 0x0000000000049a85 on ring 0)22:03
enyci may well do twell to try a neewer/upstream kernel22:04
enycbut first  i  try  radeon.dpm=0 nomodeset22:04
fsmithredFWIW, I just installed apache2 onto the machine behind me (beowulf/xfce) and then connected to it with a browser on the computer in front of me. Didn't even have to get out of my chair. "It works"22:06
fsmithredtry installing in a VM to see if everything you need installs easily.22:07
fsmithredbtw, computer in front of me is still running jessie, because it works.22:10
FatPhili think everything I can see is running jessie (2 Pis, 1 Pi3, an Asus lappy, and an MSI cubie mini thingy)22:17
Centurion_Danhi fsmithred!22:21
fsmithredhi Centurion_Dan22:24
fsmithredyou back home?22:24
Centurion_Dannope, just back at the inlaws where I have decent connectivity and power... the campervan doesn't have an inverter and I don't have a dc-dc converter for my laptop.22:25
Centurion_DanIt was nice having a couple of days without the children though ;-)22:26
slvrget a 14 volt laptop22:26
gurufsmithred: so far so good thank you :)22:27
fsmithredhe's got a couple of semaphore flags tucked behind the driver's seat22:27
enycoh this is getting silly22:27
enyci now have some  non display related  issue entierly22:27
fsmithredwhat issues?22:27
enyceven without changig kernel command line  i now cant boot 4.19.0-5-amd64  even afer reinsatlalng package22:27
enycit get so ar booting and gets sotck on a mountan of:-22:27
enycWARNING: Device /dev/sd??  not enetialised in udev hataase even ater waiting 100000000 microseconds.   or so22:28
fsmithredare you in chroot now?22:28
fsmithredor you get that on booting?22:28
enyci get that on booting22:28
enyci can boot a 4.9.0-9-amd6422:28
fsmithredI was getting that error in chroot while running update-grub22:28
enycjust not the 4.19.0-5-amd6422:28
enycwich has now become broken ;-(22:29
enycbut only very recently22:29
enycdid a dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc and reinstalled grub22:29
fsmithredok, not a uefi problem22:29
enycdid a --reinstall  of  the linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64 package wahteer it was22:29
enycyes , not uefi machine22:29
enycit EVENTUALLY boots 4.19.0-5-amd6422:29
enycjust very very slow at first22:30
enyci left it for a bit...22:30
fsmithredyeah, I saw the same with update-grub - those messages took a long time to finish22:30
enycfsmithred: recent udev upgrade?  whats changed  very lately?22:30
fsmithreda couple months ago, I ran into that and I think I ended up mounting /run/udev to the chrooted system22:30
fsmithredand that made the warnings go away22:31
fsmithredI thought it was related to the grub-efi-amd64-signed package at the time, but I guess not.22:31
* enyc slaps enyc22:32
enyc[  402.700697] radeon: `o' invalid for parameter `dpm'22:32
enycBOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.19.0-5-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/clone_vg-root ro radeon.dpm=o nomodeset22:32
enyc0 not o ;p22:32
* enyc slaps enyc22:32
guruI'm kind of scared to upgrade from ascii to beowulf on my laptop. Should I take the plunge? ;)22:32
guruSomeone flip a coin22:33
fsmithredguru, wait22:33
guruSmart man hah22:33
fsmithredI assume you need to use your laptop, right?22:33
guruYup hah22:33
fsmithredand it's working now?22:33
enycguru: i took complete disk image backup on this desktop system disk ;p22:33
fsmithredDon't fuck with it.22:33
enyc+1 to fsmithred22:33
* fsmithred still has a wheezy server in production22:34
gurufsmithred: Solid advice thanks :)22:34
fsmithredfor your amusement, if you're hot to play with beowulf, put this on a usb:
guru:) I'll do that thanks22:36
fsmithredI think that one does not have a network manager of any kind.22:38
fsmithreddhclient eth022:39
guruIsn't wheezy EOL?22:39
enycguru: ELTS for wheezy exists22:39
enycguru: but doesn't cover all packages22:40
guruDebian 8 will also receive Long Term Support for five years after its initial release with support ending on June 30, 2020. The supported architectures include amd64, i386, armel and armhf.22:40
guruah I see22:40
gurufsmithred is playing the long game :P22:40
* enyc finally boots complexity mochinu with ... radeon.dpm=0 nomodeset ;p22:41
fsmithredyeah, wheezy died some time ago. I thought about updating to jessie - the main app that is needed would continue to work, but after that, there's no deb package22:43
fsmithredand it's lvm on raid, so I decided not to mess with it22:44
enyc[  356.084078] [drm] VGACON disable radeon kernel modesetting.22:44
enyc[  356.084138] [drm:radeon_init [radeon]] *ERROR* No UMS support in radeon module!22:44
fsmithredenyc, stackexchange says remove nomodeset22:49
enycfsmithred: indeed!22:52
enycseems like modern  radeon  requires kms22:52
fsmithredyou have new vid card in old machine? Or was the pIII something else?22:54
enycpiii/machine is that with irssi etc22:55
enycnothing todo with desktop with error22:55
fsmithredand another search hit says to add radeon.modeset=022:59
fsmithredwhich I'm pretty sure does the same thing as nomodeset23:00
enychrrm yesand not useful with new kernels23:01
enycfsmithred: going to try newer kernels ;p23:02
fsmithredenyc, does that install have anything in /dev when it's not running?23:05
fsmithredall I have in the install that gave me that error message about devs not in udev database has only /dev/null23:07
fsmithredstandard debian install has some static links in /dev. I don't know if that would make a difference.23:07
enycfsmithred: hrrm good question23:27
enycfsmithred: booting this 5.2 kernel finally ;p23:27
enycssame nonsens with   not initialiezd in ude database  etc23:27
enycwas very helpful to boot into older 4.9 kernel,  then sort out linux kernel installs23:28
enycas  grub-probe  etc  semeed to have massive runtime hangups similarly23:28
fsmithredI'm thinking eudev is involved. Might be helpful to know what conditions trigger that warning.23:47
guruenyc: I made a backup image like you did and upgraded. Glad I did the performance is significantly better.23:59
enycguru: im still arguing with kernels and radeon23:59

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