libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-08-20

moritonAh, I'm still on testing, not unstable.00:05
captainfixerpc14is there anyone available that could help with an update issue on ascii that continues to give this as an error with over 603 packages left?  The following packages have been kept back:03:31
captainfixerpc14please03:31
golinuxsources.list?  Post link not here03:33
nexgenhello06:55
nexgenthere are rumors corporates may infect almost all GNU software by their systemD06:56
nexgenjust paying to developers to do some "needed" stuff and simultaneously add systemD binding too06:56
nexgenhow are you going to handle this?06:57
golinuxnexgen: That is off topic for this channel.  If you must blabber, please do it in #debianfork07:37
divansan`Hi all :) Trying to use lvm cache. I've setup all but it fails to boot. It seems I need to get initranfs to include dm_cache etc.08:46
divansan`I'm trying to do that from a rescue disk, but the rescue disk can't mount the root vol because dm_cache not detected in rescue environment either.08:46
divansan`How can I recover in rescue env? (ascii)08:47
gnarfacedivansan`: maybe chroot into it and run update-initramfs?08:59
avboxI  have AMD 2400G and use devuan ascii. Sound card does not work. With latest siduction it works. What could be the problem?14:42
r3bootdrivers, usually. Try a newer kernel14:47
avboxJust found out, sound over headphone works, but not over hdmi cable. Kernel is 4.19.6414:49
drizztUnit193: you can use eudev instead of udev15:54
_abc_Anyone on xfce besides myself? Are the new updates to xfce percolating into devuan upstream? Anyone tried them?16:52
* _abc_ can't wait for some bugs to be ironed out16:53
fsmithredhow new?16:54
James1138I am using XFCE.16:57
fsmithred_abc_, what are you looking for?17:00
sccirchello; I'm trying to use "unattended-upgrades", but while --dry-run suggests everything is configured for what I want, it is not running automatically. There's no cron job that seems relevant, and 50unattended-upgrades seems configured right. What else can I check?18:41
Evilhamsccirc: what's your OS and release?19:16
Evilhamalso, you can do sth like `# unattended-upgrade -vd --apt-debug --dry-run`, check the output and if you deem it appropriate, create  paste bin or sth similar with it19:18
sccircEvilham: devuan ascii19:18
Evilhamtogether with `dpkg -l | grep unattended-upgrades`19:19
Evilhamalso, reminder to anyone with access to stuff to use 2FA and the like: https://github.com/rest-client/rest-client/issues/71319:20
sccircEvilham: I can show you if you'd like, but the output appears to show that my origins are valid and it looks as though it's wanting to upgrade the packages I'd expect. dpkg lists the package as "ii" and as version 0.93.1+vua2.019:23
Evilhamsccirc: that sounds right for ascii19:24
sccircwhat I'm confused about is that this doesn't seem to make any attempt to run automatically. The unattended-upgrades log file only shows this and my previous dry run.19:24
Evilhamwhwen did you install the package?19:25
sccircprobably around July 2219:26
sccircI've been trying a few things for the past week or so as I've had time19:26
sccircjust remembered I have logs on this. July 16. Close enough. Took me a while to notice. I didn't think to check because the last time I tried this, with Ubuntu 16.04 or so, it seemed to kick in right away19:28
Evilhamyeah, that's the expectation19:29
Evilhamsccirc: alrighty, just mans worked :-D19:31
Evilhamplease check that you have a file /etc/cron.daily/apt19:32
Evilham(apt something)19:32
sccircI have apt-compat and aptitude19:32
Evilham*just managed to remember how it worked19:32
Evilhamcan you chece permissions? the file should be executable19:33
Evilham*check the permissions (touchpads!)19:33
sccircboth are +x for ugo19:34
sccircthey match the perms on the other cronjobs19:34
Evilhamsccirc: and you have anacron entries in /etc/cronttab enabled, correct?19:35
sccircEvilham: correct; one each for cron.{daily,weekly,monthly}19:35
sccircand of course, anacron is installed19:35
Evilhaminteresting :-D I *don't* have anacron installed, isnt' there a `|| ( cd / && run-parts ...` bit?19:37
sccircyeah, there is19:37
Evilhamalright, then that part is the same, could you check that anacron is doing what it should?19:37
sccircdoes that log to a particular place?19:38
Evilhamalso: `/usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily` <-- should exist and have exec perms19:38
EvilhamIDK, can't recall how anacron worked19:39
sccircyes, the other script points to that, and it has those perms19:39
Evilhamif you are able to debug anacron, that'd be a thing, check that it works properly (maybe add an hourly script that sends you an email or creates a file)19:40
Evilhamotherwise, if you can, try to remove anacron and see if magically things work19:40
sccircgoing by "ag anacron" in /var/log, it's kicking off19:40
_abc_fsmithred:  re: xfce: new release/work on it was announced in news headlines today. For example theregister.co.uk iirc19:40
sccircEvilham: looking at another place, in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ I have two files, 50unattended-upgrades and 20auto-upgrades. The latter has two lines, APT::Period:Update-Package-Lists and APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade, both = 1. Is that right?19:41
Evilhamthat's the default, yup19:42
Evilhambasically, first line says "run apt update", second one says "actually do update the packages that match"19:43
sccircthat's what I thought19:43
Evilhamand 50un.. is the file that says how packages should match19:43
sccircbut I've seen references to other things in Debian and Ubuntu, like APT::Periodic::Enable, which is not present here. (I tried it already to no avail yesterday)19:43
Evilhamisn't that in 20periodic? :-)19:44
sccircI don't see a file with that name. Just 20auto-upgrades.19:45
sccircare the filenames "magical" or is it merely their contents that's important? I assumed the latter.19:46
Evilhamorder and contents19:46
Evilhamjust checked: 20periodic is created by my provisioning :-D but the default *is* APT::Periodic::Enable "1"19:47
sccircon two systems I can check, I only have auto-upgrades and they only have those two lines as described19:47
sccircboth fresh installs from a month ago19:47
Evilhamyup, that looks fine19:47
Evilhamanyway, I'll be doing some cleaning, when you figure out if anacron is doing its job let me know, if not that's your issue, if it is running fine, then it's likely somewhere else19:48
fsmithred_abc_, right now, ceres/sid has same version as beowulf/buster - 4.12. We'll probably see 4.14 in ceres some time, but we'll never see it in beowulf or buster.19:51
cipher86WHERE CAN i ASK BASIC QUESTIONS ABOUT dEVUAN?19:54
cipher86sorry for the caps19:54
stiltrcipher86: What's your question?19:55
cipher86etc/systemd exists why?19:56
EvilhamAnd very basic questions are likely already answered on the forum19:56
cipher86Link to forum please?19:56
EvilhamRead the channel topic19:57
stiltrhttps://dev1galaxy.org/19:57
EvilhamThat folder exists because the files are harmless and removing them is too much work for zero gain19:57
cipher86Thanks...19:57
sccircEvilham: I'm not getting system mails saying anacron *failed*, I seem to see it in syslog, and its spool folder exists.19:58
EvilhamAnd its useful tp have them when things dont work as expected to check what systemd systems would do19:58
sccircEvilham: kind of having a hard time proving it's running without losing a day; as far as I can tell, anacron's lowest granularity is a vague notion of "daily".19:59
Evilhamsccirc: try adding an hourly script that you are absolutely sure youd see, like touch /var/iwashere20:00
sccircEvilham: unless I'm reading this wrong, I don't think it knows how to do hourly scripts20:01
Evilhamoh, actually true20:02
Evilhamsorry, m20:02
Evilhammb20:02
sccircgiven that I don't see active failures, I'm inclined to believe it *should* be working at this point, as it should have correct settings by default20:03
sccircdid I install it wrong? I installed unattended-upgrades, then ran `dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low unattended-upgrades`, from memory, and answered "yes" to the question dialog presented. This seemed to generate the two /etc/apt/apt.conf.d files, possibly other things.20:04
Evilhamsccirc: how about you edit `/etc/cron.daily/apt-compat` (make a backup) and go to the end and: comment out random_sleep and `exec /usr/....` and instead add as the very last line: `echo "would run"`20:04
Evilhamthen execute `/etc/cron.daily/apt-compat`20:04
Evilhamsccirc: if the dry-run said that it would update some packages, then unattended-upgrades is set up properly, the issue is that it's not really being called, and we don't know exactly where or why20:05
sccircit echos "would run"20:05
Evilhamfun :-D20:06
Evilhamso revert that20:06
Evilhamwould you show me the output of the dry-run?20:07
sccircEvilham: https://pastebin.com/8YQ0xt2G20:08
Evilhamsccirc: and you are totally sure you haven't changed anything between yesterday and today? :-)20:10
sccircEvilham: completely. I've made my various "fixes" one thing at a time and reverted each one before trying a new one. Comparing with another machine, it should be stock aside from edits to the 50 file20:11
Evilhamsccirc: just had an idea, edit the line in `/etc/crontab` that should be daily anacron so that it runs in, say 1 minute :-D20:11
Evilhamthen take a look at top / unattended-upgrades log to see if something actually happens20:12
Evilhamnot entirely sure it shoudl20:12
sccircI have zero entries from unattended-upgrades in my logs20:12
Evilhamanother thing that *could* be interesting is to run `env VERBOSE=2 /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily`, but beware: if that works, it will actually start unattended-upgrades20:17
James1138I see just now that another OS is dumping systemD!!   https://www.techrepublic.com/article/knoppix-8-6-first-wide-public-release-to-abandon-systemd/20:18
Kjetil <320:19
sccircat least some good news today20:22
_abc_fsmithred: I have ascii still and it's 4.1220:26
_abc_So there will be no chance of backports / etc right?20:26
_abc_I am curious what is new now that they are talking about it.20:26
fsmithredfind the source and read the changelogs20:27
_abc_I'd rather see some screenshots :) But you're rirght, as usual.20:28
fsmithredThe main goal was to port core components to Gtk 3 and from D-Bus Glib to GDBus20:28
fsmithredoh boy, I can't wait20:29
_abc_https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/xfce_4.14final finalize release notes: 70% completed.20:30
_abc_Sounds like a Windows progress bar now >:-)20:30
sccircEvilham: running the script with VERBOSE=2 didn't provide any output, but it did run20:30
Evilhamsccirc: it ran --> it upgraded?20:31
sccirccorrect20:31
_abc_https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/roadmap 3 months to go20:32
EvilhamI stick at blaming something anacron-related :-D20:32
Evilhamsccirc: keep an eye on it and, if you can, remove anacron, run-parts should be accomplishing the same (I think)20:32
sccircEvilham: anacron was possibly installed by unattended-upgrades to begin with, if I understand what dpkg is telling me20:33
_abc_fsmithred: was that sarcasm or serious, wrt can't wait20:34
_abc_I confess the differences between D-Bus Glib and GDBus are lost on me. I assume the distinction is important?20:35
fsmithredsarcasm20:35
Evilhamsccirc: it recommends cron, or anacron, it can do without20:36
fsmithredgtk3 has been a moving target for the past few years, much to the dismay of devs who use gtk for their apps.20:36
_abc_So GDBus is the new "evil" side solution? The one devuan avoids?20:36
fsmithredno, we don't avoid dbus20:37
fsmithredalthough it's possible20:37
_abc_I know gtk has been a moving target since gtk-2.0+ was a requirement for building gptools (pic development on oss)20:37
_abc_That goes back about 10 years if not more.20:37
sccircEvilham: somewhat hard for me to check now since I ran the unattended-upgrades bit, but I'll remove anacron for now and next time I see an upgrade is due on my workstation I'll take a look at this test system20:37
fsmithredgtk3 apps are the ones that have borderless buttons20:37
sccircand giant everything20:37
Evilhamsccirc: wonderful, you should also subscribe to Debian's security ML, besides anything relating systemd it applies to Devuan too20:38
_abc_oh noes borderless buttons20:38
sccircEvilham: I'll have to consider that. Thanks for your assistance thus far.20:39
Evilhamit's quite low traffic, I do recommend that :-)20:40
sccircseems they have rss for security advisories. Same content?20:42
Evilhamshould be, yup20:43
sccircnice20:49
sccircone random thing I've been wondering about for a while: I'm more familiar with Ubuntu than Debian, but I thought it was the same there: packages had long descriptions visible in e.g. Synaptic, but in Devuan they just copy+paste the short description. Kinda wondered why.20:51
Akuliseems to depend a bit on the package to me20:53
sccircI haven't seen any exceptions to that personally, though I'd wonder at it either way20:54
Akuliunattended-upgrades has a description consisting of about 7 lines, bash has a one-line description only20:54
sccircoh hey, so it does20:54
Akulii'm looking at this with:  $ apt show <packagename>20:54
James1138Is there any rough timeframe for when Beowulf ISO shall be on Devuan website to download??20:55
sccircI kind of assumed Devuan just literally cloned Debian and then hacked out the systemd components (simplistically speaking) so I never expected the regular packages to be (apparently) remade20:55
Akulimaybe debian doesn't have so many longer descriptions these days? i don't know20:56
sccircseems their "florence" has the full description, going by a random deb I just snagged vOv. Not a huge deal or anything, but curious20:58
sccircright, well, I'm out. Thanks again Evilham; should removing anacron resolve this issue, I'll try to remember to report back. And maybe file a bug.20:59
Evilhamsccirc: some packages have to be recompiled21:01
EvilhamIf people complain about /etc/systemd, imagine if /sbn/systemd were there :-D21:02
Akulihmm  /lib/systemd/system/saned.service:                          symbolic link to /dev/null21:34
Akuli:D21:34
Kjetilthese are not the services you are looking for21:43
drawkula:-D21:46
gnarfacethere's some known issue with amprolla still not showing the long descriptions22:02
gnarfacei think22:02
gnarfacei mean, i know it's still happening, but i think it's in amprolla22:02
Jjp137I think it's because amprolla doesn't currently deal with translation files (according to: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3/blob/master/TODO.md)22:09
Jjp137and combined with: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Format#Description22:09
Jjp137if a package comes from Debian, it won't have its long description most likely22:09

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