libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2019-08-26

andy5995fsmithred: I was just wondering because I've submitted a couple packages to experimental, and wanted to know how to *use* experimental ;)00:35
andy5995I've been a Debian user for years but never tried that part00:36
gnarfaceandy5995: it's like for if you're running unstable and the nvidia drivers still aren't new enough, and you're willing to break your system to try newer ones00:38
fsmithredour experimental repo does not merge debian's00:43
fsmithredit's used for new packages that don't come from debian00:44
fsmithredandy5995, make sure the deb line in sources.list has /devuan not /merged00:44
gnarfaceoh, noted00:45
tom_workIs it possible to build forwardports for Devuan?01:38
tom_worknot backports01:38
gnarfaceyes, i would think so01:39
gnarfacethe basic process should not be fundamentally different01:39
tom_workwould that just be for example apt source -t oldstable engrampa?01:39
gnarfaceyea01:39
tom_workinstead of apt source -t sid/ceres01:39
tom_workhmm01:39
gnarfaceoh01:40
gnarfacethere is one thing though01:40
gnarfaceone complication about the way dpkg works01:40
gnarfaceit won't downgrade a package by default01:40
gnarfaceso when you rebuild the old package, you still have to give it a name that dpkg will think is a newer version01:40
gnarfaceor it will refuse to replace the currently installed version01:40
gnarfacebut that's only a complication if you have a currently installed version01:41
tom_workShould I rename it so like say current stable package name is coolprogram. Do I name it coolprogram5 or coolprogram-5 ?01:41
drawkulaaptitude can downgrade interactively01:41
tom_worksorta lke how libmariadb18 is?01:41
tom_workand put in the pakages metadata that coolprogram5 replaces/provides coolprogram01:42
gnarfacetom_work: there are very strict rules, and if you get so much as one character out of place, build scripts tend to break very ungracefully all over the place, but yes, you have the basic idea.  you can see from examples of what has already gone through the repo.01:43
tom_workspeaking of packages I want to maintain that latest release of NetSurf Browser (3.9) for Debian. Is there a good guide you would personally recommend on understanding and creating debian packages?01:43
gnarfacetom_work: *very strict rules about package names and versions, to be clear01:43
gnarfacetom_work: yes, https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/01:44
tom_workI can build netsurf 3.9 just fine by hand, but I looked at the debian package for it and it does not make a lot of sense to me01:44
Witedsfigured out that my libuuid and asound2 issue comes down to libblkid1:i386 trying to replace the 64bit system01:44
gnarfaceWiteds: ouch.  not everything is fully multi-lib safe.01:45
tom_workthank you. looks like there is even documentation on how to get your changes merged to Debian here01:46
gnarfacetom_work: that documentation is fairly exhaustive about debian packaging, but it opens with a lot of etiquette stuff not relevant to personal packages, and you can just skip past that stuff.  for how to quick&dirty rebuild a src package, skip forward to chapter 6.01:46
gnarfacebut chapters 4 and 5 are useful if you want to analyze what all the parts are for01:47
tom_workunrelated, but There's been some work on using OpenRC for all runlevels, not just all runlevels except sysinit. Also, writing OpenRC-run INIT script replacements for the sysv start-stop-daemon reliant ones.01:48
gnarfacechapter 8 might be key for you too, since it involves inserting a upstream source tarball into an existing src package01:48
tom_workIs there a way that OpenRC-run scripts could be developed for Debian/Devuan while still maintaining init freedom? My concern is that putting init scripts in /etc/init.d would conflict with SysV init01:49
tom_workbut I want the ability to run a Devuan system with OpenRC init and OpenRC Supervisory natively01:49
tom_workwould it be correct form to use /etc/openrc.d/ for OpenRC init scripts and patch OpenRC to use this custom directory?01:50
gnarfacetom_work: right, you want to do it like gentoo does it, instead of like how debian does it.  afaik there has been a couple people working on stuff like that.  someone, at least one person around here just built the gentoo one and put it in a public repo.  i forget who, sorry.01:50
tom_workand then patch various applications in sid to also ship with an OpenRC-run init script in /etc/openrc.d01:50
tom_workgnarface, yeah I know him01:51
tom_workI've also been working on LXC Devuan OpenRC templates myself, but I have not released them yet01:51
gnarfacesomeone else a few days ago expressed interest in doing the same thing and adding lxc compatibility01:51
tom_workI am currently using those in prod01:51
gnarfaceoh, are you that guy?01:51
gnarfaceor are you a 3rd one?01:51
tom_workprobably01:51
tom_workbut my LXC templates, they don't run OpenRC natively01:52
gnarfacei'm sorry, i don't know much about this situation, i just know that there's good arguments for the way debian does it, using both at once.01:52
tom_workthey do the debian-style run SysV scripts for sysinit runlevel, then launch OpenRC and have all the init scripts run in SysV-compatibility mode01:52
gnarfacei think some of the decisions were made because of lack of development effort and unwillingness to diverge too much from upstream code01:52
gnarfacebut that might be changing these days01:52
tom_workyes01:52
tom_workI want it01:53
tom_workand because I am already using it in prod I have investment in making it work01:53
tom_workand I know it's "experimental" in Debian but I know around OpenRC so I can fix things when they break01:53
tom_workBut I don't want to do this if nobody else can benefit form it01:54
specingI'll benefit01:54
gnarfaceyou guys all need to self-organize01:55
gnarfacethere are a small but growing handful of you01:55
djphthere are dozens of you01:55
tom_workmy big concerns is that I am running into limitations of running OpenRC in sysv-compatibility mode when all the functionality that the sysv scripts are doing have directly drop-ins for openrc-run. For example proccess supervisory in SysV that's using start-stop-daemon doesn't even have to use openrc-supervisory. YOu can make a Openrc-run init script and put the line supervisor=start-stop-daemon01:55
tom_workthe big thing is, I can't put openrc-run scripts in /etc/init.d/ without breaking sysv. So I need to figure out a place to put them that works for everybody01:56
gnarfacetom_work: i liked /etc/openrc.d but i have no stake in the game01:57
tom_workgnarface, where sould I go to to get a final consensus on this? Should I drop a post at the mailing lists?01:58
gnarfacethat's what you're supposed to do, yes01:58
gnarfacethere is also #devuan-dev01:58
tom_workinstant messaging not exactly what I'm looking for. IM is great for development, not so much long discussions01:59
tom_workIM is transient01:59
tom_workk01:59
gnarfacewell, IRC is hardly IM, but i think the mailing list is the preferred option, so you're good01:59
tom_worknow this part, I'm not really sure what to do here01:59
gnarfacesign up to the mailing list and wait for a confirmation?02:00
tom_workShould I post this in the Debian or Devuan mailing lists. I definitely feel I'd get a warmer response in Devuan list, and Devuan is definitively aligned with the goal of "init-freedom" whereas Debian responses to work on init systems is often responded do with hostility or lack of interest. They have gone as far as requiring systemd in some form to always run even on non-systed systems02:01
tom_workbut the OpenRC package IS in fact still in the Debian repos02:02
gnarfaceyes02:02
tom_workalthough in a form where it's not touched02:02
tom_workor worked on02:02
tom_workand been marked 'experimental' for an extended period of time02:02
gnarfacei think you should present to the devuan mailing list first02:02
gnarfacethey might tell you to present it to debian, or they might help do that02:03
tom_worksounds like a good idea02:04
tom_workHow do you think adding openrc-run scripts to non-sid/ceres releases would work? backporting to stable and testing?02:06
tom_worknot backporting the program itself, just adding an openrc script to stable and testings versions of packages02:06
tom_workbtw, my /etc/openrc.d idea came from BSD's /etc/rc.d02:07
gnarfaceyes, basically you'd have to backport it02:09
gnarfacethey don't really add packages to the releases after the fact, the way i understand it02:09
gnarfaceso you'd put it in experimental, then unstable02:09
gnarfacethen MAYBE testing02:09
gnarfacebut eventually there'd be a testing freeze, before testing becomes stable02:10
gnarfacepast that point, you can't get anything new put in to stable02:10
gnarfacebut there's always unofficial backports02:10
tom_workeven if it's just an extra init script that's only ever used if a stable user installs the stable version of openrc?02:10
gnarfaceif it doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality in a way that breaks other programs dependent on it, you might be able to get them to sneak it in02:11
gnarfacei don't know much about the specifics of the appeal process02:11
tom_work>doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality02:12
tom_workyes this, for stable and testing I only want to offer the ability to use openrc natively in a stable server with stable package versions without having to wait for two more releases02:13
tom_worknot changing the stable programs in any way. just adding a file for the program in /etc/openrc.d02:13
gnarfaceyea if you're just changing a file in the package, it might fly, i don't know for sure though02:14
tom_workk02:14
systemdleteWARNING:  Kernel Errors Present04:56
systemdlete    GPT: Use GNU Parted to correct GPT errors04:56
systemdleteAll of a sudden, too.  This is after 29 days of uptime on Ascii.  Why would this SUDDENLY show up in my logs?04:56
systemdleteI haven't rebooted or changed partitioning in months.04:57
systemdlete(It's a raid1 device with two physical hard disks)04:57
systemdletenvm!!!04:59
systemdleteThis was a message for a usb stick (I forgot that I had inserted that momentarily)04:59
systemdleteThe stick has adelie linux on it, so I will ask them about it.05:00
systemdlete(Be nice, though, if the error message mentioned WHICH device it was squawking about!)05:00
tom_I am trying to work on resolving https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921151 in Devuan ASCII but I keep running into issues trying to backport mariadb 10.3.X from beowulf into ascii06:15
tom_specifically, apt source -t beowulf mariadb-client doesn't work but apt source -t testing mariadb-client does06:16
tom_however when I actually go ahead and try to build, it looks as if I might have gotten the Debian buster instead of Devuan beowulf source because the entire build fails with the following error06:16
tom_# Copy systemd files to a location available for dh_installinit06:17
tom_cp builddir/support-files/mariadb.service debian/mariadb-server-10.3.mariadb.service06:17
tom_cp: cannot stat 'builddir/support-files/mariadb.service': No such file or directory06:17
tom_Did I somehow grab Debian sources on my Devuan system or is mariadb-client on beowulf not de-systemdifed yet?06:18
tom_or am I not building this package with the proper parameters06:18
tom_also, Is there a way to speed of compilations? Is dpkg-buildpkg ccache aware? I'm building this package on a little 1.3Ghz Intel Core2 Duo and to get to this point it literally takes all day06:19
tom_the sources I am working with are specifically mariadb-10.3-10.3.1506:20
tom_I assume when I ran apt source -t testing on my Devuan ASCII system it grabbed the sources from deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free ?06:22
tom_I assume it's https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf/mariadb-client_10.3.15-1.html right? anybody have an idea what is going on here?06:27
rrqwith "-t testing" it'd probably use your "testing" source.list line06:27
tom_rrq, I don't have testing anywhere in my sources.list06:27
rrqmmm my "apt-cache policy mariadb-server-10.3" suggests the beowulf package is directly from buster06:32
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=mariadb-client&release=any06:43
golinuxAll packages appear to be from Debian.06:43
rahalverJust new to Devuan.  Have some startup questions.06:59
rahalverI am used to xubuntu.  I am trying to learn how to get internet connection, update, apt-get install.07:03
rahalverI know patience is good.  just wondering if I am in the right place..07:09
Jjp137yea this is the right place; just ask your questions and stay in the channel :)07:10
rahalverCool.  Just put Devuan on Apple.  Re-doing  now, since I realize probably 64 bit.  lscpu declares that it is 32-bit, 64-bit.  assume part of my problem was that I had installed 32 bit.07:16
rahalver(expecting high-5 for doing that to an Apple, and direction if that means 32 or 64 bit are both okay to use.)07:18
gnarfacerahalver: you want the 64-bit install because you can still run 32-bit software in it.  some people like to still have a purely 32-bit system, but there are very few practical reasons to do that07:36
rahalverWhen I try the LIVE  version of 64 bit, it seems to hang up on:  ... DRM] MM:  using CRYPT of buffer copies07:36
gnarfacehow long did you let it wait?07:37
tom_rrq, golinux Do you know how the systemd-stuff was stripped out from mariadb-client on ASCII? Perhaps I could take those patches and apply them to beowulf07:39
gnarfacerahalver: remove "quiet" from the kernel command-line and see if that gives you any better information.  i think you might need some other kernel options though07:39
tom_is it just a simple file(s) in the patch/ directory or is it a bit more involved?07:40
tom_hmm08:02
rrqnot sure if it was, even, since the ascii version is 10.1.38-0+deb9u108:02
tom_I guess I will have to wait for some help fixing beowulf's mariadb08:02
tom_http://dpaste.com/078Z2SK08:07
tom_This doesn't look like a hard error, it looks like the package is already successfully built (well the binaries) but it's failing because systemd-specific folders do not exist08:10
rahalverlive iso seems to not "work" on my computer. regular version of 1.0.0 seems to be going forward nicely, for install.08:20
rahalverThe "select and install software" part failed... seems important to have that, trying again, but with no xfce08:25
gnarfacemaybe it failed due to missing network connection?08:30
rahalvermaybe.  but I told it not to do network for now.08:32
rahalverI don't know how to get the network going...  i use hotspot here overseas, and not sure  how that would work, as it needs password.08:33
buZzjust dont select any software?08:36
buZzyou can also re-run tasksel later08:36
buZz>sudo tasksel08:37
buZzbut you'd need some wifi tools i guess08:37
rahalverOk.Might it work to somehow plug my phone usb right into the computer next time?08:37
buZzi dont know what your phone does on usb08:38
buZzis that a network card?08:38
rahalverI have wireless adapter, but how will computer know my password?08:38
buZznormally for wifi you use something like wicd or wpa_cli to enter connection details08:39
rahalverhm... maybe need ipa address.  wasn't sure how to find it at the time.08:40
buZzdhcp clients will get the ip address08:41
rahalverinstallation seems okay this time08:42
rahalverdhcp clients?08:42
rahalverhigh 5 -- success.08:43
buZz:) yay08:46
buZzyes, hotspots hand out IP addresses to their users with dhcp servers08:47
buZzthe clients negotiate with that to get a ip08:47
rahalveri thought the ipa was for the computer where I am installing distro.08:50
rahalverI am guessing i could figure that out when computer is working.  but i was doing an installation at the time.08:51
rahalverby the way, after starting up computer again, with installation complete, I am stuck at "Waiting for /dev to be fully populated..."08:52
rahalverseems 10 minutes08:53
gnarfaceweird08:53
gnarfacewas that a install from live cd or from netinstall image?08:54
rahalvernormal .iso, off CD;  did same for 32 bit version08:55
rahalvermaybe related to my iMac08:55
gnarfaceyea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options set08:56
gnarfacestuff like noacpi noapic nolapic08:56
rahalverI went around it by rebooting, then hitting "e" and adding nomodeset to quiet.08:57
gnarfaceah, and then it works?08:57
rahalverwill try now..08:57
rahalverworked.  but how can I make that permanent, so i don't need to do every time??09:02
buZzedit grub.conf in /boot/grub09:03
rahalverCan you give me a slight nudge to get me going in the right direction to do that?09:04
buZzsudo nano -w /boot/grub/grub.cfg09:05
buZzoh wait :P > # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE09:05
gnarfaceit is /etc/defaults/grub09:05
buZzyeah09:05
buZztnx gnarface09:05
gnarfaceor actually /etc/default/grub i mean, sorry09:05
buZzsudo nano -w /etc/default/grub09:05
rahalverfeeling novice. when I do sudo anything it says command not found.  also tried root09:08
buZzoh , yeah, sudo isnt installed by default09:08
buZzapt install sudo , as root :)09:08
buZzsu -  , to change to root from a normal user09:08
rahalvercool  that worked09:09
buZz\o/09:09
buZzyou dont specifically need sudo now, when you are root already , you can do nano directly on those files09:09
rahalverokay.  so do i just type nomodeset after quiet?09:12
rahalverwithin quotes.  I am just quessing09:13
rahalverguessing09:13
gnarfaceyes, within the quotes that are there.  the order of the options does not matter.09:16
gnarfaceand you probably don't want quiet, if you want to see what is going on during boot09:16
rahalvererase quiet09:17
rahalverhow to i save it?09:17
gnarfacethe instructions for nano should be printed along the bottom of the screen...09:17
rahalverit has an up arrow and X. Does that mean Fn or ctrl or alt?09:18
gnarface^ is a carrot, not an up-arrow09:18
rahalvernovie09:18
gnarfaceand it means ctrl09:18
rahalvernovice.09:18
rahalverso what does carrot mean?09:18
gnarfaceit doesn't matter.  it's being used out of context here, but it is a common convention09:19
Jjp137caret* btw09:20
gnarfaceheh, thanks09:20
rahalverokay.  what should I do to get the X activated???09:20
buZzrahalver: hold ctrl , press X09:20
buZzoh, apples09:20
rahalverthanks09:20
buZzhold that clover symbol icon on your keyboard and press X09:20
gnarfaceit might be mapped to the apple key, i'm not sure09:21
buZzgnarface: i think apple stopped doing that key since 10 years now09:21
rahalverdidn't work09:21
buZzafter years of ridicule about fruit on their keyboards :D09:21
buZzrahalver: why not09:21
gnarfaceare you sure buZz?09:21
buZzgnarface: see; https://live.staticflickr.com/2123/1656092120_e09bd3d8a0_z.jpg09:22
buZzapple-less09:22
rahalverthe clover command key doesn't do anything09:22
buZzoh huh09:22
Jjp137try Ctrl+X then I guess09:22
buZzok weird, use ctrl then09:22
rahalverjust types x09:22
r3boot[x] crap keyboard found09:22
buZzi never saw a 'ctrl' key on a apple keyboard09:22
gnarfaceapple+x?09:23
buZzguess that since they now sell x86 machines they needed ctrl for ctrl-alt-del ? :P09:23
rahalvercontrol x09:24
rahalvernovice just taught you all...  :)09:24
rahalverok... now, how to reboot from terminal.  There is no option to power off machine, without holding back button in.09:25
tom_Are you sure your not talking about the META key?09:26
tom_That's often what Microsoft calls the Windows Key09:26
rahalvercool  reboot worked via terminal09:26
tom_it's actually called the meta and only exists on PS/2 keyboards. Amiga, UNIX, VMS, and AS/200 keyboards do not have a meta key09:27
buZztom_: its a apple computer09:28
tom_in fact my keyboard (NortGate OmniKey Ultra Rev2) which is compatible with AT, Amiga, Atari, and PS/2 does not have a meta key09:28
r3boottom_: actually, I am typing on a HHKB pro type2s atm, which is a direct Sun Type 3 descendent, and that most definetely has a functional meta key :P09:28
tom_It has an 'omni' key but it's not mapped to then same scan code in PS/2 mode09:29
rahalverI never bought an apple09:29
buZz08:55:49 < rahalver> maybe related to my iMac09:29
buZzarent those by apple?09:29
rahalveryesss09:29
rahalverye$$$09:29
rahalverstuck at setting preliminar keymap...09:30
tom_https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cd/28/f7/cd28f7812416ed99ddf12099ca7f8384.jpg AS/400 keyboard layout as 24 function keys09:35
buZzhigher resolution as400 keyboard http://www.9999hp.net/keyboard/temp/1389260-big.jpg09:36
buZzjust doubt anyone has one of these on a devuan machine ;) but i guess its doable09:37
tom_and because some of those function keys are on the left it makes it super convenient using make nconfig to compile the linux kernel09:37
buZzthe 'play' and 'record' buttons?09:38
buZzwhat do they do in the ncurses config?09:38
tom_buZz, actually I have something real similar09:38
r3boothmm, I need one of those keyboards ...09:38
tom_http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DY_Ft40CR6w/UURyifaP3kI/AAAAAAAAA_w/GxppCeKojZc/s1600/omni-key-ultra.jpg09:38
buZzyeah thats a different layout09:39
tom_this is the first revision09:39
tom_I have the second revision09:39
buZzon the as400 one the ones on the left arent function keys like F1-F24 on the top09:39
buZzwhat a annoying position for insert and delete :)09:40
tom_I see09:40
MinceRhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_Model_F_122.png09:40
tom_you get used to it09:40
tom_the biggest jar is the location of the backslash09:40
tom_the inset and delete I actually find a bit more ergonomic09:41
buZzMinceR: poor shift key09:42
buZzand missing < key aswell09:42
buZzoh, also missing a ton more keys09:43
buZzsad09:43
rahalverso... i had to add nomodeset again, where it said quiet.09:43
MinceRwell, it's an ancient layout09:43
buZzMinceR: ancient stuff can still get damaged ;)09:43
buZz-or- taken care of better09:43
buZzrahalver: you didnt save it earlier?09:43
buZzdid you read the top line on /etc/default/grub ? it says this :09:44
buZz# If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update09:44
buZzdid you do that? :)09:44
rahalvermaybe back to that later... how can i turn off my machine without holding in power button?  Normal Applic Menu, Logout doesnt give the option09:44
buZzrahalver: type 'poweroff'09:45
buZz:)09:45
rahalversorry.  I need to do that.09:45
buZzits probably called 'shutdown' in your click menu?09:45
tom_You would not believe it but my omnikey was new-old stock never been opened from the box 199309:45
buZzi can believe it09:45
buZzi've seen model m's like that aswell09:46
tom_northgate computers doesn't exist anymore. while they did exist history says most people bought them just for their keyboards alone for use on other keyboards09:46
rahalverclick menu shutdown is in light gray, not clickable09:46
tom_and that's why their keyboards implement so many protocols configurable via dip switches09:46
buZzrahalver: weird, which window manager are you running?09:46
buZzoh09:47
buZzmaybe because of the noacpi that you added, it can now no longer manage the power09:47
buZznon default computers do tend to be a bit annoying to use09:47
rahalverbuzz and/or gnarface, can I connect to you privately?09:49
buZzi'd prefer you dont09:49
rahalverok.  get lost here in all the chat09:50
rahalverThanks09:50
rahalverGood news. update-grub worked!09:53
rahalveris terminal only choice for shut down?09:54
rahalvermaybe another alternate,  like key combo.09:54
buZzyou can configure millions of things to run that command for you09:55
buZz-normally- window managers do that for you , if yours doesnt , you may want to read its documentation09:56
buZzin contrast to osx/windows, most linux software comes with documentation , its usually in /usr/share/doc/09:56
rahalverokay.  i will research.  my app menu only allows for log out09:56
rahalverrestart and  shut down are grayed out09:57
fsmithredpolicykit-1-gnome missing?10:05
* fsmithred goes back to sleep10:06
rahalverGnarface...  should i still look into this if i am able to start up without previous problem?  "yea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options setstuff like noacpi noapic nolapic"10:08
gnarfacerahalver: no, forget it10:12
rahalverok.  ran apt-get install libreoffice didnt work10:13
rahalveralso looking for dvd player recommendation10:14
gnarfaceyour /etc/apt/source.list needs to be correct, and your network connection needs to be up...10:18
gnarfaceand you need to remember to run apt-get update first10:18
rahalverokay.  lots of howework.  for now, it is strange to have my wife type su -, the poweroff.  looking for another option.10:22
rahalverits a mac problem i guess10:23
rahalverI am back.  I have an imac, now, thankfully, with only Devuan as the OS. Problem:   When I want to poweroff, it wont let me with method 1 = Application Menu, then Logout, and no shut down option is clickable (just gray).  method 2 - Command + Option + Control + Eject doesn't do anything.  Method 3 needs me to be root, which is strange for having wi10:51
rahalverfe and kids use it this way.10:51
gnarfacerahalver: someone suggested you try adding policykit-1-gnome10:53
gnarfacethat was a suggestion directed at this exact problem10:53
gnarfacei don't know if that's the actual solution, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was that or some similar package missing10:54
rahalveri will try.  I was off internet for a few minutes, so missed the info10:54
rahalverSo.. first, how to get on internet.  web browser does nothing, and internet does not have a wicd network adapter10:59
rahalverwicd network manager10:59
rahalverHow did anyone else get on internet, with wireless?11:07
buZzthere's several different methods ; https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse11:08
gnarfacerahalver: sometimes it is easier to use regular ethernet first to get the wireless set up11:10
gnarface(usually actually)11:10
rahalveri see.  i have none.  i can go over to a friends house, maybe, but it seems there should be a way.11:23
rahalveralso, iwconfig doesn't work. command not found.. i tried the wiki rec from buzz. not working so far.11:25
buZzsounds like you installed too minimal a version of devuan11:27
rahalverit is the devuan jessie 1.0.0 amd64 iso11:32
rahalverit seems like others with wireless connection should have a way..11:33
rahalverI have a pqi pen someone gave me. i can try to figure out how to make ethernet from it.11:33
buZzrahalver: which iso?11:34
buZzthere's many different amd64 jessie isos11:35
rahalverthanks buzz.  you have been very helpful.  time for supper..11:38
buZzwelcome and bon appetit11:39
rahalverIf I get an internet connection... Can I do some kind of an update or upgrade to get missing  or additional packages  that were missing on my iso?12:09
djphr3boot: yes13:38
djph...oops13:38
r3bootdjph: hmm? what did I fuck up this time? :P17:04
djphr3boot: nah, it was me - didnt doublecheck the tab-complete17:37
xrogaanWe're not going to get current xfce4 4.14 until next debian stable, that is crazy.22:31
xrogaan4 years old software, but new one didn't release on time so screw the user right?22:32
gnarfacexrogaan: your mentality is flawed.  the point of not rushing in a new version is to not screw the user.22:56
gnarfacestop being a version fetishist22:56
gnarfacechange inherently promotes instability22:56
gnarfaceit's not a valid goal in and of itself22:57
gnarfacethey will still backport all the important security fixes22:57
gnarfacebesides, someone will probably put it in backports for you anyway22:58
gnarfaceso just, you know.  try to find something worthy to be angry about22:58
fsmithredI heard that 4.14 looks like a phone22:59
fsmithredall gtk322:59
xrogaangnarface: I don't mean to get it right away, but before we get another stable version of xfce23:07
* drawkula has switching to sawfish on the to do list...23:12
drawkulabut the list is long and full of dark energy...23:13
drawkulainb late debian6 days I played with sawfish and it was fun23:13
drawkula -b23:13
tom_workDebian sarge <323:21
* drawkula was very happy with deb6... it was stable like a tank23:22
drawkulaor like woody23:22
drawkula:-Þ23:22

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