andy5995 | fsmithred: I was just wondering because I've submitted a couple packages to experimental, and wanted to know how to *use* experimental ;) | 00:35 |
---|---|---|
andy5995 | I've been a Debian user for years but never tried that part | 00:36 |
gnarface | andy5995: it's like for if you're running unstable and the nvidia drivers still aren't new enough, and you're willing to break your system to try newer ones | 00:38 |
fsmithred | our experimental repo does not merge debian's | 00:43 |
fsmithred | it's used for new packages that don't come from debian | 00:44 |
fsmithred | andy5995, make sure the deb line in sources.list has /devuan not /merged | 00:44 |
gnarface | oh, noted | 00:45 |
tom_work | Is it possible to build forwardports for Devuan? | 01:38 |
tom_work | not backports | 01:38 |
gnarface | yes, i would think so | 01:39 |
gnarface | the basic process should not be fundamentally different | 01:39 |
tom_work | would that just be for example apt source -t oldstable engrampa? | 01:39 |
gnarface | yea | 01:39 |
tom_work | instead of apt source -t sid/ceres | 01:39 |
tom_work | hmm | 01:39 |
gnarface | oh | 01:40 |
gnarface | there is one thing though | 01:40 |
gnarface | one complication about the way dpkg works | 01:40 |
gnarface | it won't downgrade a package by default | 01:40 |
gnarface | so when you rebuild the old package, you still have to give it a name that dpkg will think is a newer version | 01:40 |
gnarface | or it will refuse to replace the currently installed version | 01:40 |
gnarface | but that's only a complication if you have a currently installed version | 01:41 |
tom_work | Should I rename it so like say current stable package name is coolprogram. Do I name it coolprogram5 or coolprogram-5 ? | 01:41 |
drawkula | aptitude can downgrade interactively | 01:41 |
tom_work | sorta lke how libmariadb18 is? | 01:41 |
tom_work | and put in the pakages metadata that coolprogram5 replaces/provides coolprogram | 01:42 |
gnarface | tom_work: there are very strict rules, and if you get so much as one character out of place, build scripts tend to break very ungracefully all over the place, but yes, you have the basic idea. you can see from examples of what has already gone through the repo. | 01:43 |
tom_work | speaking of packages I want to maintain that latest release of NetSurf Browser (3.9) for Debian. Is there a good guide you would personally recommend on understanding and creating debian packages? | 01:43 |
gnarface | tom_work: *very strict rules about package names and versions, to be clear | 01:43 |
gnarface | tom_work: yes, https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ | 01:44 |
tom_work | I can build netsurf 3.9 just fine by hand, but I looked at the debian package for it and it does not make a lot of sense to me | 01:44 |
Witeds | figured out that my libuuid and asound2 issue comes down to libblkid1:i386 trying to replace the 64bit system | 01:44 |
gnarface | Witeds: ouch. not everything is fully multi-lib safe. | 01:45 |
tom_work | thank you. looks like there is even documentation on how to get your changes merged to Debian here | 01:46 |
gnarface | tom_work: that documentation is fairly exhaustive about debian packaging, but it opens with a lot of etiquette stuff not relevant to personal packages, and you can just skip past that stuff. for how to quick&dirty rebuild a src package, skip forward to chapter 6. | 01:46 |
gnarface | but chapters 4 and 5 are useful if you want to analyze what all the parts are for | 01:47 |
tom_work | unrelated, but There's been some work on using OpenRC for all runlevels, not just all runlevels except sysinit. Also, writing OpenRC-run INIT script replacements for the sysv start-stop-daemon reliant ones. | 01:48 |
gnarface | chapter 8 might be key for you too, since it involves inserting a upstream source tarball into an existing src package | 01:48 |
tom_work | Is there a way that OpenRC-run scripts could be developed for Debian/Devuan while still maintaining init freedom? My concern is that putting init scripts in /etc/init.d would conflict with SysV init | 01:49 |
tom_work | but I want the ability to run a Devuan system with OpenRC init and OpenRC Supervisory natively | 01:49 |
tom_work | would it be correct form to use /etc/openrc.d/ for OpenRC init scripts and patch OpenRC to use this custom directory? | 01:50 |
gnarface | tom_work: right, you want to do it like gentoo does it, instead of like how debian does it. afaik there has been a couple people working on stuff like that. someone, at least one person around here just built the gentoo one and put it in a public repo. i forget who, sorry. | 01:50 |
tom_work | and then patch various applications in sid to also ship with an OpenRC-run init script in /etc/openrc.d | 01:50 |
tom_work | gnarface, yeah I know him | 01:51 |
tom_work | I've also been working on LXC Devuan OpenRC templates myself, but I have not released them yet | 01:51 |
gnarface | someone else a few days ago expressed interest in doing the same thing and adding lxc compatibility | 01:51 |
tom_work | I am currently using those in prod | 01:51 |
gnarface | oh, are you that guy? | 01:51 |
gnarface | or are you a 3rd one? | 01:51 |
tom_work | probably | 01:51 |
tom_work | but my LXC templates, they don't run OpenRC natively | 01:52 |
gnarface | i'm sorry, i don't know much about this situation, i just know that there's good arguments for the way debian does it, using both at once. | 01:52 |
tom_work | they do the debian-style run SysV scripts for sysinit runlevel, then launch OpenRC and have all the init scripts run in SysV-compatibility mode | 01:52 |
gnarface | i think some of the decisions were made because of lack of development effort and unwillingness to diverge too much from upstream code | 01:52 |
gnarface | but that might be changing these days | 01:52 |
tom_work | yes | 01:52 |
tom_work | I want it | 01:53 |
tom_work | and because I am already using it in prod I have investment in making it work | 01:53 |
tom_work | and I know it's "experimental" in Debian but I know around OpenRC so I can fix things when they break | 01:53 |
tom_work | But I don't want to do this if nobody else can benefit form it | 01:54 |
specing | I'll benefit | 01:54 |
gnarface | you guys all need to self-organize | 01:55 |
gnarface | there are a small but growing handful of you | 01:55 |
djph | there are dozens of you | 01:55 |
tom_work | my big concerns is that I am running into limitations of running OpenRC in sysv-compatibility mode when all the functionality that the sysv scripts are doing have directly drop-ins for openrc-run. For example proccess supervisory in SysV that's using start-stop-daemon doesn't even have to use openrc-supervisory. YOu can make a Openrc-run init script and put the line supervisor=start-stop-daemon | 01:55 |
tom_work | the big thing is, I can't put openrc-run scripts in /etc/init.d/ without breaking sysv. So I need to figure out a place to put them that works for everybody | 01:56 |
gnarface | tom_work: i liked /etc/openrc.d but i have no stake in the game | 01:57 |
tom_work | gnarface, where sould I go to to get a final consensus on this? Should I drop a post at the mailing lists? | 01:58 |
gnarface | that's what you're supposed to do, yes | 01:58 |
gnarface | there is also #devuan-dev | 01:58 |
tom_work | instant messaging not exactly what I'm looking for. IM is great for development, not so much long discussions | 01:59 |
tom_work | IM is transient | 01:59 |
tom_work | k | 01:59 |
gnarface | well, IRC is hardly IM, but i think the mailing list is the preferred option, so you're good | 01:59 |
tom_work | now this part, I'm not really sure what to do here | 01:59 |
gnarface | sign up to the mailing list and wait for a confirmation? | 02:00 |
tom_work | Should I post this in the Debian or Devuan mailing lists. I definitely feel I'd get a warmer response in Devuan list, and Devuan is definitively aligned with the goal of "init-freedom" whereas Debian responses to work on init systems is often responded do with hostility or lack of interest. They have gone as far as requiring systemd in some form to always run even on non-systed systems | 02:01 |
tom_work | but the OpenRC package IS in fact still in the Debian repos | 02:02 |
gnarface | yes | 02:02 |
tom_work | although in a form where it's not touched | 02:02 |
tom_work | or worked on | 02:02 |
tom_work | and been marked 'experimental' for an extended period of time | 02:02 |
gnarface | i think you should present to the devuan mailing list first | 02:02 |
gnarface | they might tell you to present it to debian, or they might help do that | 02:03 |
tom_work | sounds like a good idea | 02:04 |
tom_work | How do you think adding openrc-run scripts to non-sid/ceres releases would work? backporting to stable and testing? | 02:06 |
tom_work | not backporting the program itself, just adding an openrc script to stable and testings versions of packages | 02:06 |
tom_work | btw, my /etc/openrc.d idea came from BSD's /etc/rc.d | 02:07 |
gnarface | yes, basically you'd have to backport it | 02:09 |
gnarface | they don't really add packages to the releases after the fact, the way i understand it | 02:09 |
gnarface | so you'd put it in experimental, then unstable | 02:09 |
gnarface | then MAYBE testing | 02:09 |
gnarface | but eventually there'd be a testing freeze, before testing becomes stable | 02:10 |
gnarface | past that point, you can't get anything new put in to stable | 02:10 |
gnarface | but there's always unofficial backports | 02:10 |
tom_work | even if it's just an extra init script that's only ever used if a stable user installs the stable version of openrc? | 02:10 |
gnarface | if it doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality in a way that breaks other programs dependent on it, you might be able to get them to sneak it in | 02:11 |
gnarface | i don't know much about the specifics of the appeal process | 02:11 |
tom_work | >doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality | 02:12 |
tom_work | yes this, for stable and testing I only want to offer the ability to use openrc natively in a stable server with stable package versions without having to wait for two more releases | 02:13 |
tom_work | not changing the stable programs in any way. just adding a file for the program in /etc/openrc.d | 02:13 |
gnarface | yea if you're just changing a file in the package, it might fly, i don't know for sure though | 02:14 |
tom_work | k | 02:14 |
systemdlete | WARNING: Kernel Errors Present | 04:56 |
systemdlete | GPT: Use GNU Parted to correct GPT errors | 04:56 |
systemdlete | All of a sudden, too. This is after 29 days of uptime on Ascii. Why would this SUDDENLY show up in my logs? | 04:56 |
systemdlete | I haven't rebooted or changed partitioning in months. | 04:57 |
systemdlete | (It's a raid1 device with two physical hard disks) | 04:57 |
systemdlete | nvm!!! | 04:59 |
systemdlete | This was a message for a usb stick (I forgot that I had inserted that momentarily) | 04:59 |
systemdlete | The stick has adelie linux on it, so I will ask them about it. | 05:00 |
systemdlete | (Be nice, though, if the error message mentioned WHICH device it was squawking about!) | 05:00 |
tom_ | I am trying to work on resolving https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921151 in Devuan ASCII but I keep running into issues trying to backport mariadb 10.3.X from beowulf into ascii | 06:15 |
tom_ | specifically, apt source -t beowulf mariadb-client doesn't work but apt source -t testing mariadb-client does | 06:16 |
tom_ | however when I actually go ahead and try to build, it looks as if I might have gotten the Debian buster instead of Devuan beowulf source because the entire build fails with the following error | 06:16 |
tom_ | # Copy systemd files to a location available for dh_installinit | 06:17 |
tom_ | cp builddir/support-files/mariadb.service debian/mariadb-server-10.3.mariadb.service | 06:17 |
tom_ | cp: cannot stat 'builddir/support-files/mariadb.service': No such file or directory | 06:17 |
tom_ | Did I somehow grab Debian sources on my Devuan system or is mariadb-client on beowulf not de-systemdifed yet? | 06:18 |
tom_ | or am I not building this package with the proper parameters | 06:18 |
tom_ | also, Is there a way to speed of compilations? Is dpkg-buildpkg ccache aware? I'm building this package on a little 1.3Ghz Intel Core2 Duo and to get to this point it literally takes all day | 06:19 |
tom_ | the sources I am working with are specifically mariadb-10.3-10.3.15 | 06:20 |
tom_ | I assume when I ran apt source -t testing on my Devuan ASCII system it grabbed the sources from deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free ? | 06:22 |
tom_ | I assume it's https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf/mariadb-client_10.3.15-1.html right? anybody have an idea what is going on here? | 06:27 |
rrq | with "-t testing" it'd probably use your "testing" source.list line | 06:27 |
tom_ | rrq, I don't have testing anywhere in my sources.list | 06:27 |
rrq | mmm my "apt-cache policy mariadb-server-10.3" suggests the beowulf package is directly from buster | 06:32 |
golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=mariadb-client&release=any | 06:43 |
golinux | All packages appear to be from Debian. | 06:43 |
rahalver | Just new to Devuan. Have some startup questions. | 06:59 |
rahalver | I am used to xubuntu. I am trying to learn how to get internet connection, update, apt-get install. | 07:03 |
rahalver | I know patience is good. just wondering if I am in the right place.. | 07:09 |
Jjp137 | yea this is the right place; just ask your questions and stay in the channel :) | 07:10 |
rahalver | Cool. Just put Devuan on Apple. Re-doing now, since I realize probably 64 bit. lscpu declares that it is 32-bit, 64-bit. assume part of my problem was that I had installed 32 bit. | 07:16 |
rahalver | (expecting high-5 for doing that to an Apple, and direction if that means 32 or 64 bit are both okay to use.) | 07:18 |
gnarface | rahalver: you want the 64-bit install because you can still run 32-bit software in it. some people like to still have a purely 32-bit system, but there are very few practical reasons to do that | 07:36 |
rahalver | When I try the LIVE version of 64 bit, it seems to hang up on: ... DRM] MM: using CRYPT of buffer copies | 07:36 |
gnarface | how long did you let it wait? | 07:37 |
tom_ | rrq, golinux Do you know how the systemd-stuff was stripped out from mariadb-client on ASCII? Perhaps I could take those patches and apply them to beowulf | 07:39 |
gnarface | rahalver: remove "quiet" from the kernel command-line and see if that gives you any better information. i think you might need some other kernel options though | 07:39 |
tom_ | is it just a simple file(s) in the patch/ directory or is it a bit more involved? | 07:40 |
tom_ | hmm | 08:02 |
rrq | not sure if it was, even, since the ascii version is 10.1.38-0+deb9u1 | 08:02 |
tom_ | I guess I will have to wait for some help fixing beowulf's mariadb | 08:02 |
tom_ | http://dpaste.com/078Z2SK | 08:07 |
tom_ | This doesn't look like a hard error, it looks like the package is already successfully built (well the binaries) but it's failing because systemd-specific folders do not exist | 08:10 |
rahalver | live iso seems to not "work" on my computer. regular version of 1.0.0 seems to be going forward nicely, for install. | 08:20 |
rahalver | The "select and install software" part failed... seems important to have that, trying again, but with no xfce | 08:25 |
gnarface | maybe it failed due to missing network connection? | 08:30 |
rahalver | maybe. but I told it not to do network for now. | 08:32 |
rahalver | I don't know how to get the network going... i use hotspot here overseas, and not sure how that would work, as it needs password. | 08:33 |
buZz | just dont select any software? | 08:36 |
buZz | you can also re-run tasksel later | 08:36 |
buZz | >sudo tasksel | 08:37 |
buZz | but you'd need some wifi tools i guess | 08:37 |
rahalver | Ok.Might it work to somehow plug my phone usb right into the computer next time? | 08:37 |
buZz | i dont know what your phone does on usb | 08:38 |
buZz | is that a network card? | 08:38 |
rahalver | I have wireless adapter, but how will computer know my password? | 08:38 |
buZz | normally for wifi you use something like wicd or wpa_cli to enter connection details | 08:39 |
rahalver | hm... maybe need ipa address. wasn't sure how to find it at the time. | 08:40 |
buZz | dhcp clients will get the ip address | 08:41 |
rahalver | installation seems okay this time | 08:42 |
rahalver | dhcp clients? | 08:42 |
rahalver | high 5 -- success. | 08:43 |
buZz | :) yay | 08:46 |
buZz | yes, hotspots hand out IP addresses to their users with dhcp servers | 08:47 |
buZz | the clients negotiate with that to get a ip | 08:47 |
rahalver | i thought the ipa was for the computer where I am installing distro. | 08:50 |
rahalver | I am guessing i could figure that out when computer is working. but i was doing an installation at the time. | 08:51 |
rahalver | by the way, after starting up computer again, with installation complete, I am stuck at "Waiting for /dev to be fully populated..." | 08:52 |
rahalver | seems 10 minutes | 08:53 |
gnarface | weird | 08:53 |
gnarface | was that a install from live cd or from netinstall image? | 08:54 |
rahalver | normal .iso, off CD; did same for 32 bit version | 08:55 |
rahalver | maybe related to my iMac | 08:55 |
gnarface | yea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options set | 08:56 |
gnarface | stuff like noacpi noapic nolapic | 08:56 |
rahalver | I went around it by rebooting, then hitting "e" and adding nomodeset to quiet. | 08:57 |
gnarface | ah, and then it works? | 08:57 |
rahalver | will try now.. | 08:57 |
rahalver | worked. but how can I make that permanent, so i don't need to do every time?? | 09:02 |
buZz | edit grub.conf in /boot/grub | 09:03 |
rahalver | Can you give me a slight nudge to get me going in the right direction to do that? | 09:04 |
buZz | sudo nano -w /boot/grub/grub.cfg | 09:05 |
buZz | oh wait :P > # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE | 09:05 |
gnarface | it is /etc/defaults/grub | 09:05 |
buZz | yeah | 09:05 |
buZz | tnx gnarface | 09:05 |
gnarface | or actually /etc/default/grub i mean, sorry | 09:05 |
buZz | sudo nano -w /etc/default/grub | 09:05 |
rahalver | feeling novice. when I do sudo anything it says command not found. also tried root | 09:08 |
buZz | oh , yeah, sudo isnt installed by default | 09:08 |
buZz | apt install sudo , as root :) | 09:08 |
buZz | su - , to change to root from a normal user | 09:08 |
rahalver | cool that worked | 09:09 |
buZz | \o/ | 09:09 |
buZz | you dont specifically need sudo now, when you are root already , you can do nano directly on those files | 09:09 |
rahalver | okay. so do i just type nomodeset after quiet? | 09:12 |
rahalver | within quotes. I am just quessing | 09:13 |
rahalver | guessing | 09:13 |
gnarface | yes, within the quotes that are there. the order of the options does not matter. | 09:16 |
gnarface | and you probably don't want quiet, if you want to see what is going on during boot | 09:16 |
rahalver | erase quiet | 09:17 |
rahalver | how to i save it? | 09:17 |
gnarface | the instructions for nano should be printed along the bottom of the screen... | 09:17 |
rahalver | it has an up arrow and X. Does that mean Fn or ctrl or alt? | 09:18 |
gnarface | ^ is a carrot, not an up-arrow | 09:18 |
rahalver | novie | 09:18 |
gnarface | and it means ctrl | 09:18 |
rahalver | novice. | 09:18 |
rahalver | so what does carrot mean? | 09:18 |
gnarface | it doesn't matter. it's being used out of context here, but it is a common convention | 09:19 |
Jjp137 | caret* btw | 09:20 |
gnarface | heh, thanks | 09:20 |
rahalver | okay. what should I do to get the X activated??? | 09:20 |
buZz | rahalver: hold ctrl , press X | 09:20 |
buZz | oh, apples | 09:20 |
rahalver | thanks | 09:20 |
buZz | hold that clover symbol icon on your keyboard and press X | 09:20 |
gnarface | it might be mapped to the apple key, i'm not sure | 09:21 |
buZz | gnarface: i think apple stopped doing that key since 10 years now | 09:21 |
rahalver | didn't work | 09:21 |
buZz | after years of ridicule about fruit on their keyboards :D | 09:21 |
buZz | rahalver: why not | 09:21 |
gnarface | are you sure buZz? | 09:21 |
buZz | gnarface: see; https://live.staticflickr.com/2123/1656092120_e09bd3d8a0_z.jpg | 09:22 |
buZz | apple-less | 09:22 |
rahalver | the clover command key doesn't do anything | 09:22 |
buZz | oh huh | 09:22 |
Jjp137 | try Ctrl+X then I guess | 09:22 |
buZz | ok weird, use ctrl then | 09:22 |
rahalver | just types x | 09:22 |
r3boot | [x] crap keyboard found | 09:22 |
buZz | i never saw a 'ctrl' key on a apple keyboard | 09:22 |
gnarface | apple+x? | 09:23 |
buZz | guess that since they now sell x86 machines they needed ctrl for ctrl-alt-del ? :P | 09:23 |
rahalver | control x | 09:24 |
rahalver | novice just taught you all... :) | 09:24 |
rahalver | ok... now, how to reboot from terminal. There is no option to power off machine, without holding back button in. | 09:25 |
tom_ | Are you sure your not talking about the META key? | 09:26 |
tom_ | That's often what Microsoft calls the Windows Key | 09:26 |
rahalver | cool reboot worked via terminal | 09:26 |
tom_ | it's actually called the meta and only exists on PS/2 keyboards. Amiga, UNIX, VMS, and AS/200 keyboards do not have a meta key | 09:27 |
buZz | tom_: its a apple computer | 09:28 |
tom_ | in fact my keyboard (NortGate OmniKey Ultra Rev2) which is compatible with AT, Amiga, Atari, and PS/2 does not have a meta key | 09:28 |
r3boot | tom_: actually, I am typing on a HHKB pro type2s atm, which is a direct Sun Type 3 descendent, and that most definetely has a functional meta key :P | 09:28 |
tom_ | It has an 'omni' key but it's not mapped to then same scan code in PS/2 mode | 09:29 |
rahalver | I never bought an apple | 09:29 |
buZz | 08:55:49 < rahalver> maybe related to my iMac | 09:29 |
buZz | arent those by apple? | 09:29 |
rahalver | yesss | 09:29 |
rahalver | ye$$$ | 09:29 |
rahalver | stuck at setting preliminar keymap... | 09:30 |
tom_ | https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cd/28/f7/cd28f7812416ed99ddf12099ca7f8384.jpg AS/400 keyboard layout as 24 function keys | 09:35 |
buZz | higher resolution as400 keyboard http://www.9999hp.net/keyboard/temp/1389260-big.jpg | 09:36 |
buZz | just doubt anyone has one of these on a devuan machine ;) but i guess its doable | 09:37 |
tom_ | and because some of those function keys are on the left it makes it super convenient using make nconfig to compile the linux kernel | 09:37 |
buZz | the 'play' and 'record' buttons? | 09:38 |
buZz | what do they do in the ncurses config? | 09:38 |
tom_ | buZz, actually I have something real similar | 09:38 |
r3boot | hmm, I need one of those keyboards ... | 09:38 |
tom_ | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DY_Ft40CR6w/UURyifaP3kI/AAAAAAAAA_w/GxppCeKojZc/s1600/omni-key-ultra.jpg | 09:38 |
buZz | yeah thats a different layout | 09:39 |
tom_ | this is the first revision | 09:39 |
tom_ | I have the second revision | 09:39 |
buZz | on the as400 one the ones on the left arent function keys like F1-F24 on the top | 09:39 |
buZz | what a annoying position for insert and delete :) | 09:40 |
tom_ | I see | 09:40 |
MinceR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_Model_F_122.png | 09:40 |
tom_ | you get used to it | 09:40 |
tom_ | the biggest jar is the location of the backslash | 09:40 |
tom_ | the inset and delete I actually find a bit more ergonomic | 09:41 |
buZz | MinceR: poor shift key | 09:42 |
buZz | and missing < key aswell | 09:42 |
buZz | oh, also missing a ton more keys | 09:43 |
buZz | sad | 09:43 |
rahalver | so... i had to add nomodeset again, where it said quiet. | 09:43 |
MinceR | well, it's an ancient layout | 09:43 |
buZz | MinceR: ancient stuff can still get damaged ;) | 09:43 |
buZz | -or- taken care of better | 09:43 |
buZz | rahalver: you didnt save it earlier? | 09:43 |
buZz | did you read the top line on /etc/default/grub ? it says this : | 09:44 |
buZz | # If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update | 09:44 |
buZz | did you do that? :) | 09:44 |
rahalver | maybe back to that later... how can i turn off my machine without holding in power button? Normal Applic Menu, Logout doesnt give the option | 09:44 |
buZz | rahalver: type 'poweroff' | 09:45 |
buZz | :) | 09:45 |
rahalver | sorry. I need to do that. | 09:45 |
buZz | its probably called 'shutdown' in your click menu? | 09:45 |
tom_ | You would not believe it but my omnikey was new-old stock never been opened from the box 1993 | 09:45 |
buZz | i can believe it | 09:45 |
buZz | i've seen model m's like that aswell | 09:46 |
tom_ | northgate computers doesn't exist anymore. while they did exist history says most people bought them just for their keyboards alone for use on other keyboards | 09:46 |
rahalver | click menu shutdown is in light gray, not clickable | 09:46 |
tom_ | and that's why their keyboards implement so many protocols configurable via dip switches | 09:46 |
buZz | rahalver: weird, which window manager are you running? | 09:46 |
buZz | oh | 09:47 |
buZz | maybe because of the noacpi that you added, it can now no longer manage the power | 09:47 |
buZz | non default computers do tend to be a bit annoying to use | 09:47 |
rahalver | buzz and/or gnarface, can I connect to you privately? | 09:49 |
buZz | i'd prefer you dont | 09:49 |
rahalver | ok. get lost here in all the chat | 09:50 |
rahalver | Thanks | 09:50 |
rahalver | Good news. update-grub worked! | 09:53 |
rahalver | is terminal only choice for shut down? | 09:54 |
rahalver | maybe another alternate, like key combo. | 09:54 |
buZz | you can configure millions of things to run that command for you | 09:55 |
buZz | -normally- window managers do that for you , if yours doesnt , you may want to read its documentation | 09:56 |
buZz | in contrast to osx/windows, most linux software comes with documentation , its usually in /usr/share/doc/ | 09:56 |
rahalver | okay. i will research. my app menu only allows for log out | 09:56 |
rahalver | restart and shut down are grayed out | 09:57 |
fsmithred | policykit-1-gnome missing? | 10:05 |
* fsmithred goes back to sleep | 10:06 | |
rahalver | Gnarface... should i still look into this if i am able to start up without previous problem? "yea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options setstuff like noacpi noapic nolapic" | 10:08 |
gnarface | rahalver: no, forget it | 10:12 |
rahalver | ok. ran apt-get install libreoffice didnt work | 10:13 |
rahalver | also looking for dvd player recommendation | 10:14 |
gnarface | your /etc/apt/source.list needs to be correct, and your network connection needs to be up... | 10:18 |
gnarface | and you need to remember to run apt-get update first | 10:18 |
rahalver | okay. lots of howework. for now, it is strange to have my wife type su -, the poweroff. looking for another option. | 10:22 |
rahalver | its a mac problem i guess | 10:23 |
rahalver | I am back. I have an imac, now, thankfully, with only Devuan as the OS. Problem: When I want to poweroff, it wont let me with method 1 = Application Menu, then Logout, and no shut down option is clickable (just gray). method 2 - Command + Option + Control + Eject doesn't do anything. Method 3 needs me to be root, which is strange for having wi | 10:51 |
rahalver | fe and kids use it this way. | 10:51 |
gnarface | rahalver: someone suggested you try adding policykit-1-gnome | 10:53 |
gnarface | that was a suggestion directed at this exact problem | 10:53 |
gnarface | i don't know if that's the actual solution, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was that or some similar package missing | 10:54 |
rahalver | i will try. I was off internet for a few minutes, so missed the info | 10:54 |
rahalver | So.. first, how to get on internet. web browser does nothing, and internet does not have a wicd network adapter | 10:59 |
rahalver | wicd network manager | 10:59 |
rahalver | How did anyone else get on internet, with wireless? | 11:07 |
buZz | there's several different methods ; https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse | 11:08 |
gnarface | rahalver: sometimes it is easier to use regular ethernet first to get the wireless set up | 11:10 |
gnarface | (usually actually) | 11:10 |
rahalver | i see. i have none. i can go over to a friends house, maybe, but it seems there should be a way. | 11:23 |
rahalver | also, iwconfig doesn't work. command not found.. i tried the wiki rec from buzz. not working so far. | 11:25 |
buZz | sounds like you installed too minimal a version of devuan | 11:27 |
rahalver | it is the devuan jessie 1.0.0 amd64 iso | 11:32 |
rahalver | it seems like others with wireless connection should have a way.. | 11:33 |
rahalver | I have a pqi pen someone gave me. i can try to figure out how to make ethernet from it. | 11:33 |
buZz | rahalver: which iso? | 11:34 |
buZz | there's many different amd64 jessie isos | 11:35 |
rahalver | thanks buzz. you have been very helpful. time for supper.. | 11:38 |
buZz | welcome and bon appetit | 11:39 |
rahalver | If I get an internet connection... Can I do some kind of an update or upgrade to get missing or additional packages that were missing on my iso? | 12:09 |
djph | r3boot: yes | 13:38 |
djph | ...oops | 13:38 |
r3boot | djph: hmm? what did I fuck up this time? :P | 17:04 |
djph | r3boot: nah, it was me - didnt doublecheck the tab-complete | 17:37 |
xrogaan | We're not going to get current xfce4 4.14 until next debian stable, that is crazy. | 22:31 |
xrogaan | 4 years old software, but new one didn't release on time so screw the user right? | 22:32 |
gnarface | xrogaan: your mentality is flawed. the point of not rushing in a new version is to not screw the user. | 22:56 |
gnarface | stop being a version fetishist | 22:56 |
gnarface | change inherently promotes instability | 22:56 |
gnarface | it's not a valid goal in and of itself | 22:57 |
gnarface | they will still backport all the important security fixes | 22:57 |
gnarface | besides, someone will probably put it in backports for you anyway | 22:58 |
gnarface | so just, you know. try to find something worthy to be angry about | 22:58 |
fsmithred | I heard that 4.14 looks like a phone | 22:59 |
fsmithred | all gtk3 | 22:59 |
xrogaan | gnarface: I don't mean to get it right away, but before we get another stable version of xfce | 23:07 |
* drawkula has switching to sawfish on the to do list... | 23:12 | |
drawkula | but the list is long and full of dark energy... | 23:13 |
drawkula | inb late debian6 days I played with sawfish and it was fun | 23:13 |
drawkula | -b | 23:13 |
tom_work | Debian sarge <3 | 23:21 |
* drawkula was very happy with deb6... it was stable like a tank | 23:22 | |
drawkula | or like woody | 23:22 |
drawkula | :-Þ | 23:22 |
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