freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2019-08-30

golinuxjames1138: Please stop sending user to the debian repos.  We should have all allowable Debian pkgs available through Devuan repos00:18
klausstrange question of the day: how do you change behavior of xdg-open with xdg-mime for this filetype: application/x-executable ?00:25
klausright now if i do: xdg-open myexecutable_file, my browser pops up, as if it was the application to handle executables00:25
klausi tried to look at: xdg-mime query default application/x-executable, but of course it returns nothing00:25
fsmithredklaus, there's a file with the associations that you can edit00:26
klausfsmithred: but look at the filetype i said00:26
klausapplication/x-executable00:27
klausthere's no association to do for that ?00:27
klausat least if there is, i don't know about it00:27
fsmithrednot sure00:27
klausif i try to run that application normaly (without xdg-open) it works the application starts fine, it has +x and me as ownership also00:28
fsmithredin ascii, the file is .config/mimeapps.list00:28
fsmithredbut I'm not sure that's what you need00:28
fsmithredklaus, what app do you want xdg-open to use for opening your executable file?00:30
fsmithredor do you want it to run the file?00:30
klausany app00:31
fsmithredif it's a script, a text editor would be a good choice00:31
fsmithredI do that in thunar: right click, open with other app00:31
klausit's to launch from my filemanager (here it's 'lf' at the moment) but the problem would also present itself with any filemanager that would try to use xdg-open to run an exe00:31
klausif i do: file myexe, i get: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux)00:32
klausthe output is a bit longer but you see what i mean it's not a script but a real exe00:33
klausi wonder if anyone could replicate that or if it's just me00:34
fsmithredlf is your file manager?00:34
klausyes00:36
fsmithredI don't know it.00:36
klausput that would be the same with other, the point is lf uses xdg-open00:36
klausand xdg-open some_exe fails00:36
klausmaybe xdg-open can't open exe ? if that's so, it's a serious limitation ;)00:37
klaus*put -> but00:37
sasquatch/usr/bin/xdg-open /usr/bin/emacs   runs   www-browser /usr/bin/emacs00:37
sasquatchon a cubie3 running devuan300:37
sasquatchlooking at htop in tree mode...00:38
klaussasquatch: so it's the same for you too? trying to run an exe from xdg-open starts up your browser instead ?00:38
sasquatchyes00:38
sasquatchxfce on devuan300:39
klausthat's bad looking for xdg-open ;)00:39
sasquatchon deBIan10+gnome:00:39
sasquatch$ xdg-open /usr/bin/emacs00:39
sasquatchgio: file:///usr/bin/emacs: No application is registered as handling this file00:39
klausso basicaly, xdg-mime doesn't know such filetype as "executables..00:40
fsmithredcan you get it to print a list of possible mimetypes?00:41
gnarfacesigh00:42
klausfsmithred: it works fine with other filetypes00:42
fsmithredthunar gives me a choice if I right-click: execute or open00:42
* gnarface looked in his .config/mimeapps.list and really didn't like what he found there00:42
klausi can make it use my favourite pdf reader to open pdf files, same for the rest, this problem is just with exe00:42
gnarfacei recommend everyone look in that file, and in .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list too00:42
klausfsmithred: then thunar maybe doesn't use xdg-open / xdg-mime, or it have a special case if the file is an exe, to handle it outside xdg-open i'd say ?00:43
* sasquatch probably never has started a program using the filemanager00:45
fsmithredlooks like you can add a new description00:45
fsmithredmaybe thunar did that00:46
fsmithredif I can find a relevant xml file, I'll share it with you00:46
fsmithredxdg-mime query filetype /usr/bin/xcalc00:49
fsmithredapplication/x-sharedlib00:49
fsmithredthat's how you get the mimetype00:49
klausi know that, that's what i said in the beginning00:49
klausklaus| i tried to look at: xdg-mime query default application/x-executable, but of course it returns nothing00:50
klausi did also prior to that a: xdg-mime query filetype my_exe and that's where it returned me : application/x-executable00:51
fsmithredoh00:51
klausthen i tried to ask it then what do you use as default when trying to open an exe, and it returned nothing00:51
klausthanks for helping btw00:52
klausi have a skill to find all these corner cases ;)00:52
fsmithredlol00:52
fsmithredI'd try adding it to mimeapps.list00:54
fsmithredapplication/x-executable=emacs.desktop  (or whatever)00:54
klauson one hand one don't really need anything special to run an exe, on the other hand, an executable is a pretty common thing, those folks making the xdg-mime could have thought that exes are filetypes too their type is exe..00:54
klausfsmithred: why would you want to do that ? that would open emacs each time you try to run an exe from xdg-open00:55
fsmithredmaybe look at thunar source code to see how it's done00:55
fsmithredyeah, I now get that you want to run the file, not open it00:55
fsmithredklaus, are you using xfce?00:58
klausi300:58
klausmost apps i use are terminal based00:58
fsmithredok, then my crazy idea probably won't work00:58
fsmithredI was going to suggest opening the executable with xfce4-appfinder00:59
fsmithredwhich is a Run window00:59
fsmithredI don't know if that would work00:59
klausi can run the app through dmenu, or simply from terminal like: ./my_exe00:59
klausit runs fine00:59
klausit's just that case, if i try to xdg-open my_exe01:00
klausok i guess i have to find where do i report bugs for the freedesktop stuffs01:01
klausi bet they'll go into either: does not compute, or not a bug wontfix mode01:02
fsmithredwhere did you get your file manager? I can't find lf in repo.01:03
klaushttps://github.com/gokcehan/lf01:04
klausbut it is not about this particular filemanager, i can reproduce in terminal with just xdg-open01:05
klausit's a clone of ranger, in go01:05
fsmithredno keybinding for Run?01:07
klausthere might be i don't know of any in particular at the moment01:08
fsmithredwell, xdg-open seems to be geared to open a file with some application01:08
fsmithredyou want to run a file01:09
klausxdg-open relies on mimetypes01:09
klausexes are filetypes too01:09
gnarfacei'm certain this is possible, because i had to manually unwire firefox from trying to open all exes with wine01:10
gnarfaceand i'm not sure where it got the idea to do that, but i'm currently placing the blame on enlightenment01:10
gnarfacespecifically the menu-population01:10
gnarfacedifferent window managers may do differently01:11
gnarfacenot sure any of this is related to the debian "menu" thing or not01:11
klausi have no enlightenment here, but this system originaly had xfce4, i never used it and after initial install i deleted it all01:12
gnarfacedo you have the "menu" package installed?01:12
gnarfaceii  menu                                   2.1.47+b1                             amd64        generates programs menu for all menu-aware applications01:12
gnarfacemaybe you want to purge that, too01:13
gnarfacesince other stuff could theoretically be using it to generate menu associations you don't like01:13
klausit doesn't look like i have it01:13
gnarfacehmm, i don't know then, it was my only guess01:14
gnarfacemaybe you actually want to have it for what you're trying to do, not sure01:14
klausi'll write a bug report to freedesktop01:15
klaushere: bugs.freedesktop.org01:16
klausthanks for helping confirming this01:27
klaushttps://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-utils/issues/15602:11
golinuxklaus: freedesktop.org strikes again.  Predictable . . .03:18
systemdletealternative to unetbootin on devuan?  Can't seem to find it...03:33
systemdleteDevuan Ascii03:33
fsmithred systemdlete do you want to make a live-usb with persistence, or do you just want to put an installer iso onto usb?04:11
klausgolinux: what do you mean ?04:12
systemdletefsmithred:  I'd like a tool similar to unetbootin.  I guess, of the two choices you offer, the latter.04:18
systemdlete(and thanks for reply!)04:18
systemdleteAnother question (sorry, hope you don't all mind stacking questions):  Can a malfunctioning USB stick cause odd behavior in the rest of the system?04:19
fsmithreddd or cat will work with isohybrid04:20
systemdletefsmithred: Reason was that I was trying to dd FreeDOS to stick, but it won't boot.  OTOH, it may be related to a bad USB stick (see 2nd question)04:20
fsmithredI haven't seen that with bad usb. Just the usb notworking.04:20
systemdletehmmm.  OK.04:21
fsmithredis freedos isohybrid or just iso?04:21
systemdletehmmm.  Not sure, but their instructions may have confused me.  Idk.  (https://www.freedos.org/download/)04:22
gnarfacei believe it is neither04:22
fsmithredwhich image did you use?04:22
gnarfacei remember having to make a grub iso and chainload it04:23
systemdleteMaybe I'm not supposed to install FreeDOS to a stick, per se, expecting it to boot.  Maybe I have to use the stick to install to someplace where I can use the installed FreeDOS to make bootable sticks.04:23
systemdletegnarface:  How many versions ago?  Maybe their new one does magic.04:23
gnarfacesystemdlete: oh it might have been 1.0 for all i know04:23
systemdleteWell, they are up to 1.2 now.  But that might not be saying much.04:23
gnarfaceyes, they could have changed it04:23
systemdleteGood grief.  The trouble Linux users must endure to merely update a BIOS...04:24
fsmithredsystemdlete, which image did you use?04:25
systemdleteEvery time I have to update a BIOS, there's always the issue of where to get a legit, or at least compat version, of DOS.   Why can't they just write a utility that vendors can *ALL* use that will create a bootable USB stick for people, like me, who hate Windohs?04:25
systemdletefsmithred:  I downloaded and used the Lite USB stick version.04:25
systemdleteUSB "Lite" installer04:26
fsmithredand have you put it on a usb stick yet? If so, how?04:26
systemdleteYes, with dd if=/downloadediso.img of=/dev/sdc04:26
systemdleteno?04:26
fsmithredok, that should work04:26
systemdletewhat I thought also04:26
systemdletebut, fsmithred, I am suspicious of problems with my test box.   May need a new board04:27
systemdleteIt is a 760GM-P35 I've been using a few years now.  Never had major issues like this til now04:27
fsmithredtry chainloading from grub as gnarface suggested04:27
fsmithredyou can do that if your computer uses grub to boot. Just c to get to command line04:28
systemdleteJust replaced CMOS battery, shorted the board with the JBAT jumper, swapped the memory sticks, ran memtest, etc etc04:28
systemdlete(confused)  We are talking about a usb stick I am trying to boot from.  Where does grub come into this?04:28
fsmithredmaybe you should be booting a live usb with linux to see if your hardware is good04:29
systemdleteoooh.  Good idea!!!04:29
fsmithredwhat I was talking about before was chainloading from grub to the usb04:29
systemdleteActually, I started noticing issues when I was booting with adelie linux on the same stick.  It had booted several times successfully.04:30
fsmithredwould work if you're installing to a computer that has linux on it04:30
systemdleteI see what you mean. Yes, I've got Devuan and Alpine, and maybe another one on the testbox.04:30
systemdleteAnother issue that may be complicating my little world is that I am using a $5 KVM switch I got in the discount bin at Fry's.   (Please don't kill me yet, ok?)04:31
systemdleteI notice that sometimes the test box has problems identifying a keyboard, mouse, etc.04:31
systemdleteSo I may be making my own problems very complicated.  But, get this, I DID get Devuan and Alpine installed on that same box... somehow.04:32
systemdleteI'm starting to wonder if maybe I am really being stupid -- or smart -- and  maybe all I need to do is turn the thing over, shake it, and everything will be good to go.04:33
systemdleteBut IIRC, that only works for the Pointy-headed Boss's computer.04:33
* systemdlete stomach is starting to grumble04:33
systemdleteI shall return to this mess this evening and see if I can't untangle this web of confusion.04:34
systemdleteI'll see if maybe I can manipulate grub on the testbox as gnarface suggested.04:35
systemdletethanks to fsmithred, gnarface.04:36
systemdletebbl04:36
fsmithredgood luck04:36
golinuxklaus: freedesktop.org = gnome, systemd, Red Hat hooligans.  IMO of course.04:50
furrywolfI'm generally unhappy with everything they decide to "improve".05:07
klausgolinux: ah.. i didn't know that05:19
klausi've always found that .desktop system to be less than ideal, to say the least. now with what you tell me i understand better05:20
klausthank you for telling05:21
klausthe menu system reading those desktop files to populate itself too, and the mime system all those are terribly heavy, lack flexibity, simplicity and logic05:22
furrywolfI am utterly disgusted that we have .desktop in debian.05:22
klausi feel less alone :)05:23
furrywolfdebian _had_ a most excellent menu system that was superior to fdo's in every way.  they ditched it and went with .desktop because everyone else was jumping off the cliff too.05:23
klausfurrywolf: what was it called?05:23
furrywolfalso, the gnome people refused to use anything else, and that's who runs debian it seems...05:23
furrywolfthe debian menu system.05:23
klausgnome people are mongoloids that much is clear now05:24
klausthey are good materials to be hired by microsoft05:26
furrywolfhttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=741573  you can read some of the thousand or so pages of stupidity there, or on mailing list archives, etc.05:26
klaussame philosophy they share05:26
klausoh no, i wouldn't, i know full well what there's to know about them, i just keep myself as far as possible from their "work" gtk things, systemd, and all05:28
furrywolfin summary, the debian menu system worked great.  it provided an extremely nicely sorted list of every graphical application that worked in every window manager.  gnome and kde wanted to use freedesktop's .desktop files instead.  they whined a lot.  people got sick of arguing with them.  they made a bunch of ridiculous claims, and pointed out that everyone else was jumping off cliffs so debian should too.05:28
furrywolftechnical committee went with them.  now we have ungodly poorly organized menus with most applications missing and most window managers entirely broken.05:29
klaustypical .. it's the general trend of society these days.05:30
furrywolfthe .desktop spec requires conformance to a specific set of categories provided by freedesktop, thus actively preventing good sorting of menu items like debian used to have.05:31
furrywolfbefore someone could go "we should have a subcategory for foobar programs, as we have several of them and they don't really fit elsewhere", and then the menu would have a foobar subcategory and be nicely sorted.  now only fdo gets to decide what your submenus are.05:32
klauswell i got so disgusted by it all that i was led to using terminal only apps and tiling wm, at least i discovered something good behind that madness05:32
klausby leaving it05:32
furrywolfcase in point:  CAD software is now lumped under "graphics" rather than having its own menu.05:32
furrywolfthe categories as mandated by fdo are, of course, geared towards the lowest-denominator consumers.05:33
klausi knew something was horribly wrong with those .desktop files and system, thank you for telling, i know its source now05:36
furrywolfthere's something horribly wrong with most things that come from fdo.05:36
klausi have to ask, is there any project you might have heard of, going on, that aim a creating something concurencing all the fdo things currently?05:40
furrywolffreedesktop, bringing you systemd, pulseaudio, .desktop files, dbus, gstreamer (why half your audio programs can't properly select output devices anymore), poppler (why none of your pdfs render correctly anymore), avahi (why your box randomly sends broadcast packets to the world), libinput (why your mouse acceleration is now broken),...05:41
klausor is fdo just reign alone without any alternative?05:41
furrywolfno one else is sick and twisted enough to try to do what they're doing.05:42
klausall those i hated each independently, i had never connected them all with fdo05:42
furrywolfand the worst is they intentionally force a "use all our stuff or use none of our stuff" policy by making everything depend on their own other projects.05:43
furrywolfor design interfaces such that it's exceptionally hard for a developer who supports theirs to support anything that's not theirs.05:43
klausgreat day i learn i was a fdo hater without knowing it :)05:44
golinuxklaus: All of what furrywolf says.05:45
klausgolinux: well i agre to every signle words. amen.05:46
furrywolfand yet many places go along with it...  since so many people use gnome and kde, which are freedesktop-based, they can strong-arm distributions.05:47
furrywolfone of the main arguments for getting rid of debian's menu system is "the gnome and kde people are refusing to use it".05:47
klausit's been a real eye opener this talk05:48
furrywolfI would like to see devuan get rid of pulseaudio next...  also, why the hell do we have avahi in any of the tasks?  heh05:50
furrywolfavahi is used by _no one_.05:50
klausgstreamer i never used, .desktop i know i disliked it, systemd and pulse audio i never liked them, i remember i often removed pulseaudio in favor of plain alsa as it was before, avahi never liked it either and so on.. but now, forgive my ignorance but, about dbus, i'm not well documented about it it seems many desktop and application rely on it, is that a necessary kind of service? what was used before it05:52
klauscame ?05:52
furrywolfyou've used gstreamer without knowing it, most likely.  it's used as a backend for increasingly many audio programs.05:53
klauscan we just ignore it ? or replace it ? or unfortunately it found its way deep into our system and is a pain to avoid ?05:53
furrywolfdbus is pretty hard to avoid05:53
furrywolfpulseaudio is still entirely avoidable05:53
klausfor audio/video, i always used plain mplayer and now mpv without gui05:53
furrywolfsystemd is, of course, avoidable if you rebuild about half a thousand packages....05:54
furrywolfavahi is 100% useless.  even if there was a need for anything it does, it's not actually used by anyone anywhere.05:54
klaussystemd with devuan and artix i don't use it anymore05:55
klausbut what about dbus ?05:55
klausi'm not even sure to fully understand what it is for05:56
klausi think of it as something like a message passing system between the apps05:56
klausi may be wrong ..05:56
furrywolfyes, that's a simple answer of what it is.05:56
klausi don't know if it's necessary or just another unneeded bloat05:57
furrywolfI'll let someone who is an expert on it say more about what it is.  lol05:57
furrywolfit's more unneeded bloat pushed by freedesktop and primarily (if not entirely) used by their projects.05:57
klausldd /usr/bin/i3|grep dbus returns nothing05:57
furrywolfis i3 a freedesktop project?  :P05:58
furrywolfdbus is used by gnome, pulseaudio, systemd, avahi, networkmanager, logind, and generally other things that also suck.05:59
klausapparently the 3 important packages that use it and prevent me to remove dbus completely are xorg-server, elogind, wpa_supplicant06:00
klausmaybe if i install wayland i can remove one of those 306:01
furrywolfvery unlikely, since wayland is also freedesktop.06:01
klauswpa_supplicant maybe i can find a way to connect my wifi without it06:01
klausarh06:01
furrywolfand logind and wpa_supplicant have nothing to do with your graphical environment...06:01
klausyes but apparently they need dbus06:02
klausif i try to remove dbus it says it's gonna remove those too06:02
furrywolfI didn't know wpa_supplicant used it.  it was probably added to talk to systemd and networkmanager.06:02
klausmaybe i can build xorg from source myself and compile it without dbus, if that's possible ?06:03
furrywolfI haven't built xorg in many years, but it was a real pain back then...06:04
klausi bet it still is ;)06:04
klausbig project tend to be so06:04
furrywolfneeded about ten million undocumented dependencies06:04
klausotoh on debian based system it's easy enough to install all the dependencies to build a given projec06:05
klaust06:05
furrywolflooks like wpa_supplicant can easily be recompiled without dbus.  the distributions that chose to do so have bug reports complaining it doesn't work with freedesktop tools.  heh.06:05
furrywolfit's easy if they're documented, not when you have to figure out why gcc failed with some macro buried fifty header files deep that needed some library it couldn't find...06:06
furrywolfheh, one of the bug reports about wpa_supplicant being compiled without dbus calls freedesktop's stuff "next generation".06:07
klaus;)06:08
klausmaybe we should all flee to bsd06:08
furrywolflooks like the primary reason it had dbus tacked on was to make networkmanager happy.06:08
furrywolfnetworkmanager is, of course, awful...06:08
klausalthough they have some of these stuff plaguing them as well, since they use gnome and kde too06:09
golinuxdbus is the glue that binds the monolith06:10
klausmaybe with some source distro like gentoo it's easier to compile everything without those06:10
golinuxAnd all this is really OT.  Should probably be on #debianfork06:10
* furrywolf curls up on golinux and yawns06:10
klauswell since noone's talking06:11
klausand it could be that a devuan user try to remove those things and then it would be on topic, no?06:12
golinuxI should have asked sooner to move it.  Apologies to those reading the backscroll06:12
klausi don't really understand why this have to be considered off topic ?06:13
klausi won't oppose resistance but it seems a valid general linux related discussion about the systems intricacies, it is related to all distro, devuan is no exception ?06:14
klauswhat if i try to remove dbus, pulseaudio and all from devuan and i experience problem and need help ?06:16
klausi can't talk about those subject ?06:16
golinuxThis is a technical assistance channel - getting stuff to work06:18
klauswell yes ?06:18
golinux#debianfork is for general chat06:18
golinuxWhen you try to mremove dbus your questions will be appropriate06:19
klausok then i understand better what you mean now06:19
golinuxklaus: There are some no dbus isos here: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/06:21
klausoh, good to know thanks :)06:22
golinuxI don't think you can run a full desktop without dbus.06:22
klausah.. that's the catch ..06:22
golinuxThat's from the dev who does the live-isos for Devuan06:22
furrywolfhe (assuming from the name klaus) is using i3, shouldn't need to drag dbus in.06:22
golinuxProbably not.06:22
klausyes using i3, st(term), mpv (video), vimb (browser)06:23
klausthose are my most often used programs, and of course vim06:24
golinuxMight not even be installed.  Depends on how it's set up.06:24
furrywolfgolinux:  xorg, logind, and wpa_supplicant all depend on dbus in the standard builds.06:24
klausit is installed because i had to use the desktop-live iso06:25
golinuxI'm not the one to talk to about that, unfortunately.06:25
klauswith xfce406:25
golinuxDefinitely06:25
golinuxAnyway, you can boot one of those isos to get a feel for nodbus06:25
klausi will certainly06:25
klausthank you for the link06:26
* furrywolf likes icewm for window managing06:26
furrywolfheh, I missed this last time I read the technical committee thread on the menu system...06:35
furrywolf"06:35
furrywolfI see that this has won.06:35
furrywolfI am absolutely furious06:35
furrywolflivid06:35
furrywolfenraged06:35
furrywolfIan."06:35
furrywolfbah, pasted poorly.  sorry.06:35
* furrywolf curls back up on golinux for bedtime06:37
klausno it's readable, and interesting, if one of the founder of debian was also against it, it's also good to hear06:37
klausi don't understand why the other solution wasn't kept around too06:38
furrywolfian jackson, not murdoch...  not a founder, but the author of dpkg and generally a well-respected developer.06:39
klausah wrong ian, sorry, i just assumed..06:45
furrywolfian jackson did a lot more for debian in recent times than ian murdock.  he also didn't hang himself.  heh.06:45
klausit would be interesting to know what he did after, did he resigned and those, or did he choose another path ..06:46
klaus*resigned and Use those or ..06:47
furrywolfian jackson resigned previously over the systemd thing.06:48
furrywolfian murdoch got beat up by the cops and then decided hanging himself was the solution to police brutality.  which is logic I do not get...06:48
klaussad, but things are not fixed in stone, it can change06:48
klaus(i am speaking about ian jackson here)06:49
klauson ian murdock death i prefer to pass the subject06:50
furrywolfbbl, sleep06:57
systemdleteI think this board (760GM-P23) is fried or something.  Looking at a possible replacement: Zotac 880G-ITX.  Reviews, overall, seem OK.  A few people received DOA systems, but that seems to be an issue with everybody's boards these days (including, from what I've read ASUS, ASRock, and Gigabyte)09:20
systemdleteBut I'm willing to hear other opinions before I waste (mostly) my time.09:20
systemdleteI could get another 760GM-P23 I guess since it HAS lasted a long time with few issues until now.09:20
systemdleteMostly, I don't want to spend too much money on last decade's technology.  Rather spend my money on beer.09:21
systemdleteOr save my money for better things, anyway.09:23
systemdleteThis is for just a testing box anyway.09:24
james1138Good morning all. Question. What is the opinion of adding "snap" feature to Devuan to enable installation of snap packages??15:57
DonkeyHoteijames1138: snap requires systemd, so no16:01
james1138Oh! Glad I asked!! Skipping the idea of snapd.  Thanx DonkeyHotei!16:01
r3bootjames1138: you could look at packaging applications inside of docker, and use that as a replacement for snap16:02
james1138r3boot: I shall pass. Too much headache even without involving systemd.16:14
golinuxjames1138: FYI https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt17:16
james1138thanx golinux17:23
emdetei would like to install a minimal devuan on some notebooks - should i try netinst or minimal-live for that task? i used `refractainstaller` lately but the script is somehow... ugly. are there any better recommondations?19:30
furrywolfI always use netinst.19:31
emdetefurrywolf: is that able to work without any network?19:31
furrywolfprobably not.  that's why it's called netinst.  lol19:31
emdete😁 could mean net is needed once you want all the nice packages 😉19:32
emdeteso a base install is possible without. depends on the installer19:32
furrywolfthe netinst image is very small, and I believe needs to fetch the base system.19:32
fsmithredYeah, it's ugly. Don't look at the script, just run it.19:33
fsmithrednetinstall installs only the installer environment before it needs the network. That's much less than a minimal install.19:34
fsmithredminimal live will give you a large selection of tools before you go on the network.19:36
furrywolfif you're just trying to save bandwidth, there's a caching package proxy you can install somewhere, and then netinst will only download directly from your lan after the first install.19:36
emdeteok. is there some simple way to build an image myself and have an automated install? just boot, login, start a script and done...? (some options set when building the image?)19:37
furrywolfthere is a tool for that, but I don't remember what it is and have never used it...   so I'll let someone else help there.19:38
fsmithredpre-seed19:38
emdetei looked through refr... but dont see a simple way to use that, it has near to 2000 lines of code with lots of options i dont need (for some legacy notebooks)19:38
fsmithredI've never done it19:38
emdetewhat is pre-seed?19:39
fsmithredyeah, you really only need about half a dozen lines19:39
furrywolfare the notebooks fairly similar?19:39
furrywolfif they're similar, you can probably just copy the drives.19:39
emdeteeven less, probably 😉 yes. all same disk, same partitions, same for all questions that are asked by refr..19:40
emdeteyou mean boot a rescue and dd some image...19:40
emdetehm, not a bad idea 😉19:40
fsmithredpartition, format, mount, run rsync to copy a system19:40
fsmithredrefractainstaller copies the running live system19:41
emdeteplus grub....19:41
fsmithreduse the excludes list from refractainstaller if you do that manually19:41
emdeteyes, saw that. but asks alot of silly questions withou any way to correct or go back ☚ī¸19:41
fsmithredyeah, you have to chroot to install grub19:41
emdeteyou mean i refactor the ref...? as well an option...  hm19:43
fsmithredwhat?19:43
emdete😁 copy the important parts out from  refractainstaller i mean19:44
fsmithredI'm suggesting that you write your own script. Borrow some lines from refractainstaller. If all the installs are the same, you can hard-code the partition names and whatever else.19:44
fsmithredI probably have one like that somewhere on a hard drive. Dean had written one that you just fill in a few variables and run it.19:44
fsmithredit would be easier than trying to comment out all the questions.19:45
emdeteif you can give me that would be nice19:45
fsmithreddon't know if I can find it, but I'll look.19:45
fsmithredyou're doing all bios boot? (no uefi?)19:46
fsmithredand msdos partitions?19:46
emdeteno uefi. yes. these old notebooks dont know anything about it 😉19:47
emdeteyes, msdos parts.19:47
fsmithredgood. The script I'm looking for is pretty old.19:47
emdetegrub in sda, not mbr19:47
emdetethan it fits well 😉19:47
fsmithredwhere?19:48
fsmithredin a partition?19:48
emdeteno, the script with the notebooks 😉19:48
fsmithredI didn't understand the 'not mbr' part19:48
fsmithredmbr is usual place for the bootloader19:49
emdetei mean this dos mbr, some people have that to boot grub from sda119:50
emdeteits in the debian package "mbr"...19:51
fsmithredoh, yes I know that one.19:51
emdetevery old days...19:51
fsmithredI've used it occasionally on live-usb19:52
fsmithredwhen syslinux failed, which is not very often19:52
emdetei had a notebook which had uefi in bios and when i tried to switch it on it gave me a warning and told its for developers only 😉 you see we resuscitate very old hw19:53
fsmithredmost of the computers I've owned were someone else's throwaway.19:54
emdetesame here, i use it for pupils, so its no problem if they trash it by accident. we have a bunch full from companies... but with a proper linux system they are just fine19:55
fsmithredemdete, you can do some basic shell scripting?20:10
fsmithredHere's the oldest one I can find right now. It should be fairly easy to remove the questions and just fill in the values for the variables. You should look at the excludes list for a recent version of refractainstaller.  https://termbin.com/y2e820:12
emdetesure, sh is ok, perl would be horrible 😉20:17
fsmithredI wrote some perl scripts once, and a year later I looked at those scripts and I understood why people call it a write-only language.20:30
emdeteyes, that is one of the problems 😉20:32
fsmithredemdete, do check the rsync commands in a recent version20:32
fsmithredthere's some tricky stuff with preserving lost+found and a few other things you may want.20:33
emdetethe other is i cant sometime differenciate perl from flyspeck... but that a personal problem.20:33
fsmithredlol20:33
onefangTry APL.20:34
emdetewow, cool stuff20:40
msdos6hi :)  how do I convince Cinnamon to open new windows only on main display? now new windows open quite randomly on any of three displays connected20:58
tocsaGood day for everyone!23:05
tocsaI am on beowulf, and some weeks ago a lot of xfce4 updates started to come in among the other updates. For a while now xfce4 got kept back at version 4.12.5 (it would upgrade to 4.14, many other packages updated to 4.14.x), because xfce4-session doesn't seem to have 4.14 version variant in the repositories so it stuck at 4.12.1-6. Does anyone have the same rpoblem?23:33
tocsaI noticed that many packages disappeared, like I don't need a separate xfce4 plugin for the menu button23:33
tocsaBut I cannot uninstall the xfce4-session because xfce4 depends on it and so it'd uninstall xfce4 itself23:34
gnarfacetocsa: can't say for sure but it sounds like a normal testing progression to me23:34
tocsaThings are still usable, but it's kinda weird.23:35
tocsaI'll wait patiently then23:35
gnarfacehang out a while if you can.  i know other people around here are using testing23:35
gnarfacesomeone may be able to confirm it's happening for everyone23:36
gnarfacebut i also know a lot of people using it are avoiding the graphical stuff for reasons just like this23:37
gnarfacethere are known issues23:37
tocsaMaybe if I'm at it: along with those updates the Power Manager plugin stopped working, dmesg shows:23:38
tocsa[22323.279777] panel-24-power-[21035]: segfault at 40 ip 00007f8a0090a181 sp 00007ffeae5486d8 error 4 in libc-2.28.so[7f8a007d0000+148000]23:38
tocsa[22323.279789] Code: 84 00 00 00 00 00 0f 1f 00 31 c0 c5 f8 77 c3 66 2e 0f 1f 84 00 00 00 00 00 89 f9 48 89 fa c5 f9 ef c0 83 e1 3f 83 f9 20 77 1f <c5> fd 74 0f c5 fd d7 c1 85 c0 0f 85 df 00 00 00 48 83 c7 20 83 e123:38
tocsa[22323.482862] panel-24-power-[21043]: segfault at 40 ip 00007f457cf84181 sp 00007ffc48402458 error 4 in libc-2.28.so[7f457ce4a000+148000]23:38
tocsa[22323.482875] Code: 84 00 00 00 00 00 0f 1f 00 31 c0 c5 f8 77 c3 66 2e 0f 1f 84 00 00 00 00 00 89 f9 48 89 fa c5 f9 ef c0 83 e1 3f 83 f9 20 77 1f <c5> fd 74 0f c5 fd d7 c1 85 c0 0f 85 df 00 00 00 48 83 c7 20 83 e123:38
gnarfaceheh, well i can't make much sense of that either, other than to assume it's probably caused by some library version mismatch too23:38
tocsaI can work this around as well, my laptop's BIOS/ACPI is f-ed up anyway, so that's not a biggie23:39
tocsaThx for the response @gnarface23:39
Jjp137er wait I'm a bit confused; xfce4 is 4.12.5 on Buster so it should be 4.12.5 on Beowulf23:40
gnarfacehmmm23:40
gnarfacetocsa: you sure you didn't accidentally mix in some unstable or backports packages or something like that?23:40
gnarfacemixing repos could cause stuff like this too23:41

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