freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2019-09-18

fsmithredgnarface, I have more info on that syslog problem I was having.00:03
fsmithredThe place in the log where the corruption occurs does not correspond to the current date.00:04
gnarfacehmmm00:05
fsmithredIt happened while I was inspecting the log. Specifically, some time between greps. Grepped once and it was normal, grepped a couple minutes later it was corrupted.00:05
fsmithredNot exactly sure what I did in between the two. Could have started a VM or a VNC over ssh session.00:05
gnarfacefsmithred: stackexchange suggests the system may have crashed during a write to syslog00:06
fsmithredI would notice a system crash, wouldn't I?00:06
gnarfacehttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/477537/system-crash-strange-chars-in-syslog00:06
gnarfacein theory if the whole thing crashed, but if it was just syslog itself, or something reporting to it, i don't know00:06
gnarfacethe stackexchange link also reminds me that ^@ is the NUL character00:07
gnarfaceso that's a clue about where the data could have come from00:08
gnarfaceuninitialized ram or disk space i guess?00:08
gnarfacethese people posting replies to the stackexchange link seem to know more about it than me00:08
fsmithredI was starting to think hardware problem. This is the laptop that doesn't like to boot from my hard drive in legacy mode. I have to boot from CD and chainload to hard drive.00:08
gnarfaceyou said you had a suspect disk in there at some point previously, i'm wondering if this could have been caused by it responding too slowly to some I/O operation during boot-up00:08
gnarfacewhich still seems like bad behavior for syslog to me, and very possibly should be considered a bug, but would also explain why so few people have ever seen this one00:09
fsmithredpretty sure the disk itself is good. It's worked fine in two other computers, and it's only six months old. It's a laptop ssd. (sata)00:09
gnarfaceoh, i thought you said you had moved the install and possibly the syslogs from an older disk00:10
fsmithredno, moved the disk.00:10
gnarfaceah00:10
gnarfacehmm00:10
fsmithredthis computer also refuses to boot from usb. It's a T42000:10
fsmithredI can chainload to the usb to boot it. If I set bios to boot usb, it tries to find a network boot.00:11
fsmithredProbably needs bios update - I think it has the original.00:11
fsmithredrunning memtest now00:16
gnarfacefsmithred: about the USB thing, did i suggest you try a different USB port?00:21
gnarfacefsmithred: one of them might be hooked to the bios specially for FEL boot mode or something similar00:22
gnarfaceit could be confused about certain usb key formats00:22
gnarfacebut with the ARM devices i've seen that do that, it's typically just one specific port00:22
gnarface(and usually the one nearest the power jack)00:23
gnarfaceor wait, was this the device that only had one USB port?00:23
gnarfacesomething else i've seen is machines that can't boot from anything larger than 2GB in physical size (regardless of partitioning)00:27
gnarfaceDell at least was guilty of shipping machines with bioses crippled in such a way, years after it should have become standard functionality00:28
gnarfacefor the Dell, upgrading to the latest bios didn't help, but for your thinkpad maybe you'll have better luck00:28
gnarfacefor the Dell, the physical boot media in any USB or SD port had to be less than 2GB total but the limitation did not apply to the SATA ports.  (i was unable to locate a CF card to test with)00:30
gnarfaceand judging by the boot speed it was accessing the flash drives in PIO mode00:31
gnarfacehmmm00:32
gnarfacelooking at the info online it says that machine was released in 2011, definitely late enough that it should be able to support flash and sd cards greater than 2GB in size (the SDHC spec as opposed to just the base "SD" spec)00:33
systemdleteestimated end of life for ascii?02:32
systemdleteis there a web page for LTS and EOL?02:33
systemdlete(with dates, I mean!)02:33
systemdleteis this even known/estimated at this time?02:36
golinuxsystemdlete: Same as for Debian Stretch02:37
systemdleteok.  Is that generally going to be the policy into the future?02:37
golinuxafaik02:37
systemdletegreat.  Good to know.  I always forget these things.02:38
Evilhamin case someone comes complain about IPv6 breaking things: there is a mirror on deb.debian.org misbehaving, so it's out of our control12:27
Evilham(aka: not IPv6 breaking things, something somewhere is broken and it happens to have an AAAA record)12:27
xinomilotranslations suggestion: move that away from git. not easy for syncing languages, nor for non-techish contributors.14:09
xinomilouse weblate or something..14:10
xinomilowill probably open up an issue for discussion14:17
EvilhamWeblate isnt good for long things, is it?16:46
xinomilonot sure :) haven't used it really.16:51
xinomilomostly using translate.wordpress.org and trad.framasoft.org lately.16:53
xinomilotransifex many years ago, but stopped after the proprietary thing.16:54
EvilhamI have used it, and it's good for small strings, but for longer things it's a bit of a PITA16:54
Evilhamso I act as a bad translator and leave the long text to someone else16:54
xinomilohehe16:55
xinomilorather an occasional translator here, not regular16:56
Evilhamit's fine, proposals are not a bad thing, it's just in the end... handling text files is still the easiest universal thing16:57
xinomilosure, forgot to say: still using pads mostly16:58
tarzeauwill devuan also make uvuntu ?18:23
furrywolfno18:24
furrywolfunless you want to, of course.  :)18:25
tarzeaui want to create updated iso images of livecd.gnustep.org but i fear there's no easy way to make a live cd of devuan?18:26
furrywolfdevuan has a livecd, and modifications to it should be easy, but you'd have to ask someone who knows more about it...  I've never even used it.18:31
golinuxDevuan has refractasnapshot and refractainstaller.  That's how we make our live cds18:36
golinuxtarzeau: That is in the devuan repos https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=refractasnapshot&release=any18:38
james1138I came in late to the conversation. Furrywolf: did you indicate a possibility there maybe a Ubuntu without systemd???19:03
golinuxNO!19:05
golinuxUnless some wants to do it.  Unlikely anyone in our camp19:05
james1138That is fine with me. I am staying with Devuan anyway.19:15
james1138I do not know if this would be a Devuan question and apologize if not. Is there any suggestions on how to play/listen to WMA format music files? If not - would anyone have suggestions on converting WMA files to MP3?  I found some music files on an old windows backup archive that I put on a DVD a long time ago and like to listen to them.20:14
fsmithredjames1138, I can play wma files with audacious, mpv or vlc.20:19
james1138I shall try installing MPV then and cross my fingers.20:19
fsmithredwhat player do you have?20:20
james1138Mplayer20:20
fsmithredthat should work20:20
omnioprobably smplayer works too, it uses mpv/mplayer20:20
fsmithredI just converted wma to occ with winff20:21
james1138I tried. I am worried that the old WMA may have some funky Microsoft protections.20:21
fsmithredIf that's the case, play it on an old windows box and run the audio output to audio input in your linux box. Re-record it.20:22
james1138yeap! Tried WinFF and got - Error while decoding stream #0:0: Operation not permitted20:23
fsmithredI don't know for sure if you can go directly from output to input or if you need to run it through an amplifier first.20:25
fsmithredor a tape deck20:25
DonkeyHoteiwma files have been fully supported by ffmpeg for ages20:27
fsmithredeven with drm?20:27
james1138I made sure I already have also installed FFMpeg and Lame.20:29
fsmithredmaybe there's some place on the internet where you could download an unfettered copy.20:30
DonkeyHoteiworst case is you make a windows vm to export the files without drm20:30
james1138ThANKS ALL20:34
james1138Sorry - caps lock on20:34
MinceRcurl -6sI -H 'Host: deb.devuan.org' 'http://[2001:638:a000:1021:21::1]/merged/pool/'21:37
MinceRis this 404 normal?21:37
MinceR(asking for a shy friend)21:39
MinceR> oh, wait, it happens on all of them with merged/pool/21:40
nemowhat's supposed to be in there?21:43
nemosure doesn't seem like a real path21:43
AntoFoxo/21:43
nemo\o21:43
AntoFoxjust for MATE 1.22 users, need to rebuild and update hezeh repo21:44
AntoFoxsame situation for cinnamon21:44
AntoFoxsome packages have dipendenza not satisfied21:44
nemoAntoFox: hezeh repo is to fix power management and such?21:45
AntoFoxI fixed time ago, mate-power-manager should work21:47
AntoFoxif there are problems let me know via: https://dev1galaxy.org/ or mail21:47
AntoFoxor in the  telegram groups21:48
MinceRdunno, but the shy user says it got fixed since21:51
james1138Question. I am thinking about using "Gnome-Flashback"/"Classic Gnome" when after I get my hands on the Devuan Beowulf ISO. Thinking back - I am using XFCE but still have a lot of GNOME pieces/parts/dependencies in addition to the XFCE stuff and maybe going Classic Gnome desktop could result in a less cluttered working system. Does anyone know of websites that go into detail about CPU/Memory usage of GNOME 3 vs GNOME Classic/Flashback??23:09
gnarfacenothing comes to mind, other than that there are better choices if you're looking for less clutter and resource usage23:12
gnarfaceGnome was never known as lightweight23:12
gnarfacethere are several much simpler window managers that don't need any gnome parts at all23:13
gnarfaceblackbox comes to mind23:13
james1138Gnarface: I do not want anything lighter than LXDE. I DO want an actual desktop environment. Sorry.23:14
james1138Mate still is a white elephant in some respects from what I read online.23:14
gnarfacei like enlightenment23:15
nemojames1138: I think MATE's reputation is undeserved23:15
nemoit did try to do a lot, maybe too much23:15
nemobut it was well organised and had a lot of useful functionality23:16
nemoof all the linux desktops I've tried with family members it's the only one that stuck23:16
nemomy mom tried XFCE was very dissatisified23:16
nemoshe wanted the automounting of her CD rips for example which mate seamlessly handled in its vfs23:16
nemoshe was frustrated by how complicated it was to adjust the clock in xfce vs mate23:16
nemoshe had a hard time with configuration in general, although to xfce's credit they've improve the organisation of that a lot the past few years23:17
james1138My problem with XFCE is that when anyone dumps Orage - they also "rip out" a lot of other stuff by accident.23:17
nemohttps://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cmp-all4.png  https://flexion.org/posts/2014-03-memory-consumption-of-linux-desktop-environments/23:18
nemoboth of these independent tests show that MATE has basically same memory consumption as XFCE these days23:18
nemothis shouldn't be much of a surprise given MATE was originally designed for lower spec devices.23:18
nemoXFCE *once upon a time* was lightweight. I don't think that's true anymore23:18
nemoabout 10 years ago I was still running a gentoo/xfce laptop with 96MiB of ram that ran seamonkey and abiword just fine.23:19
nemoI doubt that's possible now23:19
james1138But - as I mentioned eariler. I went through my installed files and saw A LOT of GNOME stuff still there for what is supposed to be a XFCE desktop. I simply added Evolution and Cheese webcam - BAM.. a lot got installed.23:19
nemowell not too surprising evolution is gnome dependent23:20
nemojames1138: maybe pull the deptree for those packages?23:20
james1138If I am to have GNOME stuiff - seems like I should just go GNOME all the way instead mixing and matching (and risking breaking).23:21
jonadabYou don't want anything to do with modern versions of GNOME.23:21
jonadabAll the useful features have long since been removed.23:21
nemowhat did you want evolution for?23:22
nemoIMO thunderbird is still a great option.23:22
james1138The modern version of GNOME assume 3D graphics and add stuff to accommodate... which I do not have on my laptop.23:22
nemoI gave up on evolution on debian about 5 years ago after going above and beyond to make it work with MAPI23:22
nemoswitched to thunderbird which was more lightweight and quite functional23:23
nemojames1138: MATE does not require compositing still23:23
nemoyou're right about gnome323:23
nemoand kde I think23:23
nemoeven on laptops where 3d accelerated desktops work it's a strain on their wimpy cards.23:24
nemoresources better devoted to your browser or gaming23:24
james1138Nemo: I tried and tried Thunderbird over and over - but for me... Thunderbird needs so many extensions and addons installed to do what Evolution does from the beginning. I had to shrug and give up on Thunderbird.23:24
* nemo shrugs23:25
nemothat's always been kinda their schtick though23:25
nemowouldn't say it's an enormous number of extensions23:25
nemoguess it depends on what you want23:25
nemofor me it's just been a few. lightning for example23:25
nemoit's not like it takes more than 5 minutes to set them up in a profile23:26
nemoand then you're done for years23:26
nemounlike evolution 😃23:26
james1138Nemo: atleast 24 addons. Lightning, chatzilla, the theme, HTTPS Everywhere, Thunderbrowse, Thunderpluger, etc.23:28
james1138Google Calendar sync, Google contact sync...23:30
james1138...forgot SpamAssasin23:32
gnu_srsHi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html23:39
gnu_srs Hi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html23:54

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