freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-09-19

nemojames1138: Evolution has chat? O_o01:04
nemojames1138: HTTPS Everywhere? you seriously need that in yours?01:04
nemojames1138: theme. eh...01:05
nemosounds like you enjoy installing addons01:05
nemoI had to install or enable plugins for evolution too. they just happened to not work01:05
* Evilham thinks lightning is in thunderbird by default01:06
nemognu_srs: what's with the spam?01:07
Evilhamit's not spam01:07
nemoI mean the repetition01:07
james1138The theme streamlines and reduces memory usage (Microbird). HTTPS Everywhere is used for browsers as well as Thunderbird for security to make sure the links in the email do not re-route me to someplace ugly. Chatzilla is IRC but I did not use that very much. Lightning is NOT included by default even in the newest version of Thunderbird.01:07
nemojames1138: ok. well evolution is hardly kind to memory usage either.  AFAIK it has no equivalent to https everywhere... certainly does not have chatzilla01:08
nemojames1138: I was focusing on those 'cause it seems you're adding functionality evolution doesn't have and thunderbird probably does not need01:08
james1138Evolution also has RSS ability. My point is that to make Thunderbird the "equal" of Evolution in functions - a lot of addons and tweaks have been needed. I know... first-hand01:09
nemoanyway. I'd say if you choose to use evolution you shouldn't be surprised if it suddenly demands a lot of gnome01:09
nemojames1138: my only point is your examples had no evolution equivalent. that's all.01:09
nemojames1138: thunderbird has rss01:10
nemofeeds01:10
james1138Evolution also has integrated contact manager.01:10
Evilhamwell, OTOH, back when I used thunderbird, I didn't need all of those features and it'd have bothered me to turn them off01:10
nemohttps://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feeds-and-blogs01:10
Evilhamit's hard to make software for everyone01:10
Evilhamso plugins are a decent compromise01:10
nemojames1138: so does thunderbird. I have domain contact integration and local01:10
nemojames1138: did not require any extensions01:11
nemoLDAP is an old thunderbird feature01:11
james1138It is a moot point - first hand experience is that for my needs Thunderbird take so much addons and tweaking it is not worth my time when I install Evolution and have it from the start.01:12
Evilhamgnu_srs: I really should subscribe to that ML, much more interesting than anything happening on debian-devel lately01:14
HumanG33khi01:31
HumanG33kwhere grub should be install on /dev/sda or on /dev/sda1 (/boot) ?01:33
HumanG33ki also have a / partition01:33
gnarfaceHumanG33k: for a typical install on modern hardware, try /dev/sda first01:55
gnarfacethat's usually what you want unless you're sharing the computer with competing boot loaders01:57
gnarfaceor if it's something really old that has bios support issues01:57
systemdleteI need libcrypto++9, but even beowulf and ceres are still at libcrypto++6.   This is a dependency of 3rd party software I am installing.  Is there a way to get around this, and what are potential gotchas?  thanks again09:21
systemdleteah. Jessie-security09:22
systemdleteand jessie also... but not in ascii?09:22
yetigrab the deb-src from jessie or beowulf(?) and try to build it on ascii10:07
systemdleteyeti:  Figured out a different way, maybe a little unorthodox:  I fetched the jessie versions from the repos.  That mostly seems to have worked, but I need to test all this.10:08
yetideb9..11 have it, so using deb9's version may™ work with ascii... but I prefer to rebuild the deb-sources on the target system instead of using foreign binaries.10:10
yetias plan a10:10
yetisometimes that fails, then I dare to try foreign binaries10:10
systemdletedeb 9..11 do not have the version required for this package I am installing.10:10
systemdleteand they are coming from debian's repo.  I assume that most packages there will work with devuan?10:11
yetiups! i searched the ++6 one10:11
yeti++9 is in jessie und partially sid...10:11
systemdlete"ups?"  you mean "oops?"  heheh10:12
systemdleteright.  ++9 is in jessie, which is the one I needed.10:13
systemdletethe only problem I see is that a lot of OTHER software, via their deps, require these other versions10:13
systemdleteso I may have difficulty running, say, mysqld or the like.10:13
yetiwhy?10:13
yetidoes it replace the files of the ++6 version?10:14
systemdletenot exactly the issue here.  Some of the packages that came up during the install as deps had a "v5" added to the end of their names.10:15
systemdleteso a package like "libmediainfo0" was actually "libmediainfo0v5"10:16
systemdletethe other packages look for the v5 version, whereas this package I installed wants the "regular" one (no "v5")10:16
systemdleteso one package essentially nulls the deps of the other by removing them, and those packages!   Which I really don't want.10:17
systemdleteI'm thinking of starting all over with devuan jessie.10:17
systemdleteBut first I want to see if I can get things working as is.10:18
systemdletedoes this make more sense?10:20
systemdleteI mean, maybe there is a far better approach, such as rebuilding the packages from source, as you suggested.10:20
yetiI'm testing to build that on ascii from sources10:21
systemdleteto build... "libmediainfo0?"10:21
yetithat ++9 thingy10:22
systemdleteoh!10:25
systemdletethere's a slew of others I needed also.  I downloaded and gdebi'd them all in10:25
yetinah... fails to build... incompatible with newer gcc?10:27
yetidware,    │ buZz10:27
yetiups... cannot cut&paste between VM and chat10:28
systemdletehttp://paste.debian.net/1101547/   has a list of all the packages I've had to gdebi so far.   There could be more, idk yet.10:28
systemdleteI don't think so.10:28
yetia warning about a convrsion of a constant is treated as error. and wirh crypto stuff I wouldnt ignore that10:28
* systemdlete nods.10:29
systemdletethat's why I asked about repercussions, above, before you responded10:29
systemdleteso, there's one.10:29
yetithat needs a look from someone knowing more about it than me10:29
systemdleteI'm really becoming convinced that the best solution here would be to begin with jessie, not ascii10:30
systemdlete(devuan jessie of course)10:30
systemdletebut, then again... if you are telling me there's a bug in the older version, I'd be getting that there too, right?10:30
yetia warning that now is treated as error10:31
yetithis could be turned off10:31
yetibut I definitely am not knowing which consequences this has10:32
systemdlete"now" -- you mean in the ascii versions of the packages?10:32
yetimayne the gcc in jessi did not see that as serious but the newer one in ascii does10:32
systemdleteor in the older, jessie?10:32
systemdleteoh!10:32
yetiI tried on ascii10:32
systemdletethanks for that clarification!10:32
systemdletebut still, doesn't this mean that there could be a real-live problem with jessie's crypto?10:33
systemdleteI mean, if it is ignoring or otherwise not handling it10:33
yetimaybe jessie's gcc overlooked the problem.10:34
systemdletea lot of people are using ascii and its crypto10:34
yetiI cannot make a definitive statement10:34
systemdleteI know10:34
systemdleteI'm just worried10:34
yetimaybe ask someone in debian why it isnt in current stable?10:35
systemdletewith my nick?   Are you nutz?  LOL10:35
yetithey must have had a reason to kick it out10:35
systemdleteI'd have to change my nick.10:35
yetiand?10:36
yetiyou only have 1 nick?10:36
systemdletedoes this error happen with ++9, or only ++6?10:36
yeti:-Þ10:36
systemdlete(I'm a poor man, so let it be...)10:36
yetiI only tried to build ++9 on ascii10:36
systemdleteoh10:36
systemdletethat might be why, actually.  Maybe they ran into the same error.10:37
yetimaybe on some of their mailing lists is some talk about that10:37
systemdleteno, I have a few extra nicks laying around somewhere.10:37
* systemdlete looks through his drawers, attic, garage...10:39
yetithe old nicks container...10:39
systemdleteooh, I know!   I could go as "guest3981" or something like that10:40
yeti"wasnt_me"10:40
systemdlete"imjustaskin"10:40
systemdlete"systemdsoooocoolman"10:40
systemdlete"noreallyitis"10:40
yetisystemE10:41
systemdleteE?10:41
yetithat name already exists somewhere... I remember a GUI theme with that name10:41
systemdletein Canada, I think they call it systemEh10:41
yetiI think one of the kde2 or -3 windoews themes had that name10:42
yetisytstem-e?10:42
systemdletehttps://github.com/cryfs/cryfs/issues/56   "Ok I'm a bit confused by their versioning scheme. Seems libcrypto++9 is Crypto++ 5.6.1 and libcrypto++6 is actually newer with Crypto++ 5.6.3."10:43
fsmithrednot fully caught up here, but did you guys notice that the ++6 version has a higher version number than the ++9 version?10:43
systemdletefsmithred, see immediately above10:44
systemdleteweird!10:44
fsmithredyeah10:44
systemdleteso I think the software I am installing is built against older ware10:44
yetiso just rebuilding the deb-src of the other stuff against the ++6 version might do it10:45
* systemdlete feels a headache coming on...10:45
yetisystemdlete: set up some VMs to experiment...10:45
fsmithredor possibly a symlink would do it10:45
systemdletewell, actually, if this works as is, I'm good.10:46
systemdleteMy worry was about that compile error.10:46
* yeti trashed at least 2 beowulfs and 2 ceres within the last 7 days... but who cares... VMs!10:46
systemdletesince the ++6 version is actually newer and no reported problem (we assume...) then all should be good10:46
systemdleteyeti:  Yes, that is one of the many joys of virtualization10:47
systemdleteand I admit I don't exploit it nearly enough as I could10:47
yetiI'm using naked qemu10:47
* systemdlete turns his eyes away, for modesty10:48
fsmithredbe careful with virtualization - you can fill up a hard disk in no time at all.10:48
systemdleteAnd I have, believe me.  It has been so much fun, I had to get larger disks.10:49
yetiI threw away a lot of VMs some weeks ago...10:49
fsmithredme too10:49
systemdleteI did that just this afternoon.10:49
fsmithredand a bunch of live-isos10:49
systemdleteyep.10:49
systemdletehouse cleaning and tidying10:49
systemdletefound some VMs in the wrong directories, and couldn't move them using vbox tools.  So I just deleted them.10:49
systemdleteJust some experiments anyway.10:50
yetiI dont know these tools10:50
yetiusing only qemu I am the manager10:50
yetiI move them as I want10:50
systemdletevbox just upgraded from v5 to v6, and once again, they changed the UI, and god knows what else10:50
yetinever trust a GUI10:51
yetiand GUIs make 10% of global warming!10:51
yeti:-Þ10:51
yetiVrijdays vor vt00!!!10:51
systemdletefor the longest time, I couldn't even get the "groups" function to work.  And no one at vbox seemed to know which feature I was talking about.  They thought I meant unix groups.10:51
yetivt10010:51
fsmithredjavascript accounts for the other 90%10:51
systemdleteI thought Edge did.10:52
systemdleteor whatever MS calls its web bowser10:52
yetiok... my xterms run in some GUI too... unluckily WWW and Mail force me to have it...10:52
yetibut the rest of the day "I live in xterm+screen"10:52
systemdletethere are cmd line mail readers10:53
systemdletepine10:53
yetii get too much "multimedia mail"10:53
systemdleteI used to use it back in the dark days before so-called "desktops"10:53
sixwheeledbeastthere's also lynx for www10:53
yetiw3m can do images... but the pages look soooo ugly, you cannot find what you're looking for10:54
fsmithredimages without X?10:54
yetiyip!10:54
yetiooor?10:54
yetimaybe that's using sixels?10:54
yetithen a higher versioned vtXXX (300?) would do it10:54
fsmithredyou lost me10:55
* systemdlete wonders how much AGW can be attributed to systemd10:55
yetisome younger terminals could do lineprinter like graphics10:55
yeti"sixels"10:55
yetimaybe w3m is using that in XTerm10:55
yetithere is even a sixel-xserver10:56
fsmithredlinks2 is kinda nice - makes the web look like the 90's10:56
sixwheeledbeastmeh, some stuff is better with a GUI some better on CLI, IMO use the most appropriate tool.10:56
systemdleteso it looks like an atari or commodore terminal?10:56
yetisixwheeledbeast: sure I would not want a text version of KiCAD10:56
yeti:-Þ10:56
yetibut since the days of my windows trauma, I cannot trust a GUI10:57
systemdletesome people never recover from Windows10:57
yetiif a GUI is optional, it's ok10:57
systemdletemultiple episodes of BSOD can cause permanent damage10:57
yeticd \#debianfork  # ?10:58
systemdletesee you there10:58
yeti:-)10:58
free_speechmail, web and IRC are the only reasons for me to have a GUI installed ... everything that differs from the mentioned uses can be done in CLI very well ...11:59
djphfree_speech: you need a GUI for IRC?12:04
djphand mail?12:04
free_speechis there a CLI Mail-Client which can handle more than just one mailadress?12:07
free_speechI am always very thankful for tips and tricks I didn't yet know ...12:07
free_speechsame for IRC ... I don't use only one channel ... not even only one server ...12:08
omnioweechat is very nice for an IRC client without GUI12:09
* tarzeau likes irssi inside screen12:12
tarzeauand links2 for web browsing the latest -g gui also supports own vector fonts (ttf/otf)12:13
djphyep, use irssi in screen myself.12:15
djphmutt can do multiple mail addresses, I just haven't ever had the need (secondary / tertiary are pretty much spam nowadays )12:15
* yeti is using >40 channels on >6 servers (and bitlbee) with weechat12:17
yetivia mosh+screen on a cubietruck12:18
yetixchat's ctcp replies were funnier... but that's the only thing I miss since switching12:19
omnioto follow >40 channels I'd need my day to have 48 hours12:20
yetixchat could do multi line replies on ctcp...12:20
yetiomnio: some of them are just for following software projects and being able to search the logs for errors12:20
yetisome->most12:21
yeti.-)12:21
yetiand a 100hres day is on my wish list for at least 2 decades now, but santa refuses...12:22
Acaciaw3m is using some weird trickery with xorg to display images, they're just overlaid on your terminal. no sixel12:40
yetihttps://bitbucket.org/arakiken/w3m/branch/remoteimg then that is different to w3m-img12:58
yetibut a sixelish w3m exists12:59
yetijust thought w3m-img were the same12:59
yetihttp://mlterm.sourceforge.net/ should work with a framebuffer13:00
yetiand can do sixels13:00
yetiand that way life without X could come nearer13:01
yetiand if all else fails, there is a sixel-xserver13:01
yetisomeday I need to try that (in a VM?)13:02
yetihttps://github.com/saitoha/libsixel13:02
yetiunluckily standard screen lacks sixel support13:02
yeti:-(13:02
Hurgotronfree_speech: I assume you mean text mode instead cli... I've been using mutt for email for 20 years or so now. and multi-window ircii for a long time. (But since I neeeded a GUI anyway for other stuff, it's now xchat)13:04
buZzdoes anyone know what the 'eve' kworker does?16:34
buZzah16:40
buZzName:   kworker/1:2-events16:40
adlpafHi everyone! Someone knows how to download an ISO for Devuan testing or experimental?16:49
fsmithredno official isos yet16:49
fsmithredsome of the derivatives have isos based on beowulf (out testing)16:49
buZzadlpaf: i -think- there are tools to make one if you really want to16:50
adlpafSo, do I have to install the stable version and then pass to testing?16:50
buZzadlpaf: but recommended way for now is just install stable and then distupgrade16:50
fsmithredyou can do that.16:50
buZzuntil its officially released16:50
fsmithredjust install a minimal system first, then upgrade, then install your apps.16:51
buZzalso, plz report bugs you encounter during the distupgrade to the ML16:51
buZz:)16:51
buZzits quite good already, there's not many big issues you could encounter16:51
buZzbut more eyes see more bugs16:51
adlpafOk! Thanks a lot fsmithred and buZz16:51
fsmithredyou may run into some conflicts around policykit and related things16:51
adlpafDefinetly hahaha16:52
buZz:)16:52
buZzcool adlpaf16:52
adlpafWell! I'll try to do it into a VM, to see better what's going on16:53
nemoso... I read that mailing list thing from the other day.  debian is seriously proposing packaging that eliminates alternate init support?16:53
buZzoh, that would increase our workload a lot16:53
Wonkareally? assholes.16:54
nemomaybe I misread which was why I asked16:54
adlpafThat is one of the reason that I want to use another distro, especially Devuan16:54
buZznemo: have a link to the archive?16:55
nemoyeah looking for it16:55
buZzadlpaf: with enough users we can do everything ;)16:55
WonkabuZz: with enough contributors.16:55
nemo17:39 < gnu_srs> Hi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html16:56
nemo17:39 < gnu_srs> Hi; this is a must read: Sam is a very sensible person: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/09/msg00001.html16:56
adlpafYEs, it is16:56
buZzright, assuming X users always leads to X/something contributers16:56
nemoack16:56
nemosorry I'm using the crappy mouse today16:56
nemoit tends to double-send middle click16:56
fsmithredmine no longer sends a middle click. Can I have one of yours?16:57
nemoheh16:57
nemofsmithred: forgot my decentish mouse at work ☺16:58
buZznemo: kinda reads like 'systemd is causing issues but we dont want to have these issues at all and dont know what to do'16:59
buZzbut yeah, kinda looks bad for elogind17:00
buZzalthough we already have our own elogind packages it seems?17:00
buZzhttps://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/elogind17:00
nemo"17:01
nemoSo perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is17:01
nemotime to move on.17:01
nemoSo perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is17:01
nemoaaaagh17:01
nemook. ctrl-shift-v for now17:01
buZznemo: yeah 'perhaps' being the keyword17:01
buZznemo: shift-ins? :D17:01
nemo"But right now there are no non-linux ports in the17:01
nemomain archive.  So perhaps we don't even care about that"17:01
nemothat seems to be leaning more on the scale there17:01
nemo"Again, a17:01
nemochange, but a change that we can ask ourselves if we are ready to make."17:01
nemoseems like he's trying to cautiously sell it to me17:02
buZzdebian has non-linux versions?17:02
buZzoh right, there's some freebsd debian i guess17:02
nemoI wonder what hypothetically devuan could do in a situation like that17:02
buZzlol from elogind readme ;17:03
nemomaintain a running set of patches from the debian changes to packaging for /etc/init.d etc?17:03
buZz> All of the credit for elogind should go to the systemd developers.17:03
nemohaha17:03
nemowelp. my fallback plan personally will just be gentoo on all my machines17:03
buZzi dno, it might just cause a new wave of devuan users inbound ;)17:04
nemoit's a shame because I like the convenience and extensive support of debian17:04
buZzwhatever this ML will decide, it wont be for buster/beowulf17:04
buZzso worstcase , devuan just splits more from upstream debian17:05
buZzand atm not -that- many packages depend on systemd17:05
buZzor init system at all17:05
buZzso, even though it looks kinda bad, it might not be all that bad17:05
Wonkawell, those that come with unit files but not init files would need fixing17:05
buZzright, -if- they decide to remove them17:06
Wonkaack17:06
buZzwhich the ML doesnt say, it just denotes some conflict17:06
Wonkabut even a "don't care" decision would be bad enough17:06
nemoI *have* manually "fixed" a work package to add an init script and it wasn't terrible17:07
nemosince most init scripts don't do anything very interesting17:07
buZzyeah .. well i assume it'll work out, most contributors on devuan are highly motivated to keep devuan alive17:07
buZzif not all :)17:07
WonkaIf I fixed up an init script for a debian package, I'd always at least try to get it into the debian package17:07
nemoWonka: oh. nice. that's a good idea17:08
nemoWonka: serves double purpose17:08
Wonkacan't hurt much, at least17:08
nemoshows visibility/interest and helps the distro17:08
nemoI always enable popcon on my devuan machines17:08
Wonkahelps both debian and devuan, if it succeeds17:08
nemoI realise it's a totally inaccurate vote17:08
nemobut even if devuan folks are ballot stuffing it shows they care…17:09
Wonkayep17:09
klaushi all19:01
klaushow could prevent my browser to accessing a specific ip ?19:01
buZznullroute the IP in iptables?19:02
klausis this the simpliest way to go about doing this kind of things ?19:02
buZzsomething like iptables -I OUTPUT -t 192.168.1.100 -j DROP19:02
buZzTIMTOWDI klaus ;)19:03
buZzthere is more then one way to do it19:03
buZz== timtowdi19:03
klausi get : can't initialize iptables table `192.168.1.100': Table does not exist19:04
buZzeh derp, yeah19:05
buZz-d instead of -t19:05
buZzdestination, not target ;)19:05
buZzklaus: dont you need to edit that IP ? :P19:05
klausyes i did, i just used the same example you provided to report the problem i had19:06
buZz:)19:06
klausit works19:06
buZz\o/19:07
DonkeyHoteii'd do REJECT instead of DROP19:07
buZzhttps://linux.die.net/man/8/iptables19:07
buZzmany stuff can be done19:07
buZzyou could also bind that IP to your lo interface :P19:07
buZzlol19:07
klausreject doesn't have my browser trying to connect to the ip but almost immediately shows a 'unable to connect' message19:08
klauswhich is better19:08
klausnow if only i could even prevent the tab to open at all that would be perfect19:09
klausbut it's already a lot better, tahnks for the help buZz, DonkeyHotei19:09
buZz\o/19:09
buZzklaus: what tab is it?19:09
buZzi mean, what service are you trying to prevent using?19:09
klausit's a movie streaming site i use, every two or three clicks, it opens a new tab that leads me to some bullshit ads19:10
klausthe movie streaming site works well, but i just wanted it to stop spamming me by opening new tabs with ads19:11
Hurgotronuse an ad blocker?19:12
Hurgotronublock origin...19:13
klausi already use ublock origin19:14
klausthis bypasses it19:14
klausi tried to look for some place in ublock settings to specify an ip to ignore, but i didn't succeed19:14
klausi tried to add "* ip * block", in my rules19:15
klausbut that didn't seem to make any change at all19:15
nemoklaus: huh. so the ads are probably hosted locally and since JS is required for your streaming...19:16
nemoklaus: you'll probably still get tabs, just with empty content19:16
nemowhich isn't gonna reduce the annoyance enormously19:16
nemoklaus: you probably need some sort of custom filter for that site, like one that clears the click events19:16
klausnemo: yes with the iptable rule, i get the tab, but nothing in it, it's already better19:16
nemokk19:16
nemoklaus: violentmonkey might be the way to go19:17
klausis that a firefox addon that would allow me to blacklist ips ?19:17
nemoklaus: BTW, years ago, I ran a browser profile for a few weeks with regular browsing.  then took the top 30 or so most frequently set cookie domains and mapped them all to 255.255.255.255 in djbdns 😃19:17
buZzklaus: uBlock origin19:18
nemoklaus: I think there are probably a ton of site blockers in addons19:18
buZzblocks practically -all- ads for me19:18
nemoklaus: you know, intended usually for parental blocking19:18
klausbuZz: visiting that site (with ublock installed): moviemagnet.unblocked.nz/movies/genre/19:19
klausevery few click i get a new tab that point there (ads): http://35.224.227.218/MTgzMzE4MzE1MDI3LzE4MzMxOTkzODAzMi8weHIyc2UxZHh519:20
nemobuZz: it's gonna have a hard time stopping local onclick events like his…19:20
klausit always starts with this ip 35.224.227.21819:20
nemobut I bet filtering the click events would be pretty easy19:20
klausthis completely bypass ublock origin19:20
buZznemo: not that i have found19:21
buZzklaus: not ublock, ublock origin19:21
klausbuZz: that's what i use19:21
buZzok19:21
nemoklaus: interesting. after whitelisting the site for javascript I got a new popup tab on the reload of the initial 404 page you'd sent us to19:21
nemoklaus: so it probably doesn't even require clicks19:21
nemois most likely in onload19:21
nemoklaus: hm. wish they had VF content19:22
klausfrench dubbing is usualy utter crap19:23
nemoklaus: it varies in quality but I'm largely in agreement19:23
nemoklaus: the problem is that I'm trying to raise at least one bilingual kid19:23
nemoin the united states which is basically 100% american english19:24
nemoso if they are gonna go for entertainment dammit it could at least serve a secondary purpose19:24
klauswhen i study a language, i like to use movies/series, then video games, and books19:25
klausi played resident evil in french, english, japanese and german :)19:25
klausof course you need games that let you pause and confortably read content19:26
klauschildren books are nice too, i like ghost story haunted mansion, kind19:26
Evilhamnemo: you are readoing only one part of that email19:26
Evilhamit is not proposing that, it is claiming that debian, as a whole, has to figure out some general guidelines, because without those general guidelines, everyone ends up being frustrated19:26
Evilhamso, one of the possible outcomes is that19:26
Evilhambut it's not the only one, and the DPL certainly doesn't make a case for that19:26
Evilhamjeez, don't just skim, read19:26
Evilhamthings are carefully worded, the situation is quite properly explained19:26
Evilhamelogind was in devuan before debian IIRC19:26
Evilhamand devuan is the upstream19:26
Evilhampff, I don't have the mental energy to repeat that you shouldn't read sentecnes, but the whole thing19:26
Evilhamnot anymore, it's out of archive19:26
Evilhamanyway, if you keep picking sentences out of that email, you are contributing to inter-community misunderstandings19:26
Evilhamit really isn't something that you can pick sentences from, but a full text piece to be read carefully and consciously19:26
Evilhamprobable case: things are clarified and it's easier to work with debian19:26
Evilhambut of course everything ahs to be the worst case :-)19:26
Evilhamanyway, better move this to #debian-fork or #debianfork, however that's called19:26
Evilhamthis is being utterly unproductive19:27
klaussomeone's clipboard got berserk19:27
buZzklaus: fyi, i use https://torrentz2.eu/ for magnets usually19:27
buZzmaybe thats unblocked on your isp? its got a shitton indexed anyway19:27
buZzbut not as clean as moviemagnets, i agree19:27
klausbuZz: yes it's good to find something specific you search for. but about movies, i want to browse, see the cover, rating, and synopsis19:28
Evilhamgrrr delayed messages because of networking issues19:28
Evilhamjust ignore19:28
Evilhamsorry for the noise19:28
buZzklaus: i understand, you miss popcorntime ;)19:28
Evilhamthe offtopic hint does apply though :-D19:29
klausi must confess i never used iptables much19:30
buZzEvilham: i agree with your interpretation of the email being less negative then earlier suggested19:30
EvilhamI'm glad, last thing we need is people going nuts because a phrase is taken out of context19:31
nemoI've read it a few times. I focused on that paragraph because it was the one that bothered me the most19:32
buZzgoing nuts isnt in anyone's favor :)19:32
nemoklaus: she's starting to get into games. her reading is still a WIP19:33
nemoklaus: hopefully will advance on that front this year19:33
buZzhmmm , i wanna log if my laptop is on charger , over time, so i can see how much time i charge it per day19:33
buZzdoes anyone have a good idea for a logging format that doesnt fill my disks too much? :P19:34
EvilhambuZz: I like prometheus for htis kind of timeseries19:34
Evilhamflexible, somewhat lean, does the job well19:34
buZzoh hmm, tnx i think , just got an idea , just log current state and only log current timestamp when state has changed19:34
buZzEvilham: my target system has 32MB ram :P19:34
klausnemo: learning languages is fun thing to do, but if it's a children, you need to make him or her  see that.19:35
Evilhamuh :-D19:35
klausmost child might think it's heavy and boring19:35
nemoklaus: var adcashMacros={sub1:"",sub2:""},zoneSett={r:"1623005"},urls={cdnUrls:["//fbcdn2.com","//uptimecdn.com"],cdnIndex:0,rand:Math.random(),events:["click","mousedown","touchstart"], ← this one looks very much like the one that's probably causing you pain19:35
buZzprometheus looks a -bit- too fancy for 32MB ram :P19:35
Evilhamtiny bit, yes19:36
buZzEvilham: this system btw ; https://nurdspace.nl/Zipit_Z219:36
buZz;)19:36
buZznot something most ppl would use19:36
nemoklaus: in inspector you can immediately see some top level events on the <html> even on your error page which is a great minimal testcase19:36
klausnemo: that maybe but then i don't know what to do about it19:36
buZzbut its my main 'i'm cooking but i want irc near' machine ;)19:36
Evilhamlel, cute19:36
buZzEvilham: cheap too19:36
buZz~30 usd gets you one on ebay19:37
Evilhamanyway :-D all this should really go to the OT channel19:37
nemoklaus: I'm gonna try to make a violentmonkey override. one moment19:37
nemoklaus: this sorta thing entertains me19:37
Evilhamotherwise catching up is hell19:37
klausnemo: thanks :)19:37
buZzEvilham: no worries, the topic was already settled i think ;)19:37
buZzi think we all agree that devuan will overcome19:37
nemoklaus: in this particular case I started from year 0 so it is natural.  it's just a question of maintenance due to the environment19:39
nemoklaus: I think it's helped her with sign language (which she quite enjoys) and italian19:39
klausbtw it wasn't and error page i just missed the last character in the link i pasted19:39
klaushttps://moviemagnet.unblocked.nz/movies/genre/719:40
klausi missed the 719:40
klaushow old is she ? english, french, italian, and sign language that's quite some already19:41
buZzklaus: doesnt the original work for you? http://moviemagnet.co/19:41
buZzthat doesnt seem to have those injected ads19:42
klausbuZz: yes, probably i just use that link: https://unblocked.cam/19:42
klausto unblock lots of sites like that, that my country is blocking19:42
buZzseems whoever runs that is getting rich from ads ;)19:42
klausads are like cancer..19:43
nemoklaus: 719:43
klausmaybe tomorrow they will find a way to insert ads in your foods, inside your steack or fruits ;)19:44
yetidreams19:44
klausnemo: she speaks more language than me at 7 ;)19:44
nemoklaus: pinged you in PM20:14
nemoklaus: FWIW, I think the quality of french dubbing has improved quite a lot lately, for disney in particular20:22
nemoklaus: they've clearly thrown money at it. and international dubbing in general20:22
nemoI'm sure you've seen the i18n frozen song youtube video20:22
DonkeyHoteithere are multiple such videos20:23
nemoDonkeyHotei: yeah, I meant the one disney released to show off20:32
nemowith the actual singers in-studio20:32
nemomoana. similar thing. high quality song video VF released by disney for the feature song20:33
nemothey've been doing that a lot20:33
nemoI guess compared to the other production expenses it's a minor one that's gotten them a decent return, and nowdays editing stuff inside the renderings is a lot easier20:33
golinuxHere I thought this was a Devuan support channel20:35
golinuxPlease move OT to #debianfork20:35
* golinux should have that on speed dial20:36
onefangOr maybe #disney?20:36
yetisomeone could program that into an attiny85 which will play usb keyboard wit 1 key...21:04
yetiand a big red button... ;-)21:05
golinuxonefang: Indeed.  Most of what happens on this channel these days is bad comedy21:13
phillipsjkAm I correct in assuming getting Steam to run under devuan would be a pain in the butt? (Valve recommends Ubuntu 18.04 LTS)23:02
james1138https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/1745605598716363897/23:06
james1138https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux#Debian23:06
james1138https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=steam&searchon=names&exact=1&suite=all&section=all23:07
james1138Not a problem installing Steam/Valve at all.23:08
phillipsjkIs intalling Debian packages advised on devuan?23:13
fsmithredadding debian repos to sources.list can result in disaster23:13
fsmithredyou are getting debian packages from devuan repos with the exception of the few we repackage23:14
fsmithredif you're talking about third-party packages, those generally work. ascii=stretch, beowulf(testing)=buster(stable)23:15
phillipsjkIs there a testing repo if we want newer drivers?23:15
phillipsjkIC Beowulf23:16
fsmithredyeah, beowulf is our testing repo. We don't have a repo that corresponds to bullseye yet23:16
fsmithredwhen we release beowulf, our stable and testing will be the same as debian's23:16
fsmithredmake sense?23:17
phillipsjkYes, was conidering testing for a newer kernel as well (was considering btrfs) https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Changelog#By_version_.28linux_kernel.29_4.x23:19
fsmithredbeowulf has 4.1923:20
phillipsjkIs the best way to install testing to install ASCII, then do a dist-upgrade?23:20
fsmithredyou could install a minimal ascii and upgrade23:20
fsmithredyeah23:20
gnarfacefor what it's worth 4.19 is in ascii-backports too though23:21
fsmithreddon't install a full desktop from the installer or you'll run into kit trouble23:21
fsmithredoh yeah, ascii-backports23:21
fsmithredbtrfs is also in ascii-backports23:30
fsmithredyou can check versions at pkginfo.devuan.org23:31
gnarfaceoh this is about btrfs?  you might need some other backports packages to go along with it23:36
phillipsjkWell, thank-you for you help. Just need to decide how to partition my disks now. (definitely needs to be 4k aligned, but think that is the defualt these days)23:36
gnarfacethere is also btrfs-progs, btrfs-tools, btrfs-heatmap, btrfs-compsize, and a bunch of btrfs-modules-[kernel and arch info] packages23:37
gnarfaceall in backports23:37
gnarfacei recommend taking a look but don't just install everything from backports, that usually ends badly23:38
phillipsjkI think I will try testing. It will probably be "stable" eventually.23:38
gnarfaceit will but you should still make a backup first23:38
gnarfacetesting and unstable are prone to a certain category of breakages that the stable version isn't typically exposed to23:39
phillipsjkNew computer, plan to SSH to the computer where my work is *really* stored.23:39
gnarfaceah, well have fun then23:39
gnarfaceif you avoid the graphical login stuff then you will probably avoid the bulk of the current problems with testing23:40
phillipsjkSo just invoke startx directly?23:40
gnarfaceyea23:40
gnarfacethough you might run into some unexpected changes in Xorg and how permissions are handled for certain drivers, it depends on the hardware you're using23:41
* phillipsjk had broken X11 on freeBSD for over a year.23:41
gnarfacethey've been merging out the default suid-root thingy, though not all the drivers have caught up to support, basically it's no longer the default to run Xorg as a user other than your own23:42
gnarfaceas long as you know that though, it shouldn't be difficult to work around23:42
gnarfacebut one consequence is that your log might be in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead of /var/log23:43
gnarfaceand some drivers still need it23:43
gnarface(which means you have to put it back yourself)23:49
gnarface(you might have to manually add yourself to the "video" group too, like in the old days)23:50
golinuxphillipsjk: Do not use "testing" in your sources list or you will get bullseye pkgs from Debian and break your system.  Use beowulf.23:58

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