freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2019-09-20

phillipsjkFigured I had to use the explicit code-name anyway. Otherwise, my system would break when the "testing" target changes.00:03
golinuxIt is already out of sync with Debian00:10
g4570nHi, is there a problem with the kernel version of the installer and the live version?01:18
g4570nError: the installer can only be used if the core versions of the live system 4.9.0-11-amd64, and the installer 4.9.0-9-amd64 are the same01:26
g4570ncore = kernel01:26
gnarfaceg4570n: what are you trying to do?  did you "apt-get upgrade" a booted live image, then try to run it's built-in installer?01:30
gnarfaceits not it's01:31
g4570ngnarface: create de ISO01:32
gnarfacecan you clarify that please?01:33
g4570nDo you want a screenshot of the error?01:33
gnarfaceno, i believe you01:33
gnarfacei'm just trying to form a hypothesis about what went wrong01:33
gnarfacepackage version checks are usually very simple string or numeric comparisons.  it's unlikely that it is smart enough to know those are almost the same exact kernel01:34
g4570nThis problem already happened once this year in May01:34
g4570nHis answer was:01:35
g4570n"the installer needs to be rebuilt. We know about it and are working on it."01:35
gnarfacehmm. i believe that too.01:35
gnarfacethat doesn't need to stop you though, there are other installation methods available.01:35
gnarfaceit might be worth it to check to see if you have the latest live iso first though01:36
gnarfacethat is, if that is your preferred installation method01:36
gnarfacei can help you with any of the others01:36
g4570nMy friend is putting together an ISO using livebuild and he gets that error, he told me that until August 29 it worked fine, without problems01:37
gnarfaceis he using that refracta thing?01:38
gnarfaceoh, you said livebuild01:38
gnarfacethat's not the same as refracta, is it?01:38
g4570ngnarface: no, he uses livebuild and D-I01:38
gnarfacedevuan uses refracta-snapshot i think01:39
g4570nit seems that kernel versions are not synchronized01:39
gnarfaceyes, is it possible to rebuild the installer component yourself?01:40
g4570nHe prefers not to use refracta for now, that's why he uses the d-i method01:40
g4570ngnarface:, and
g4570ngnarface: I think it's the same problem as in May, we have to rebuild the installer. You can do that?01:57
gnarfaceg4570n: i assume it can be done01:58
gnarfaceg4570n: if there's no package for it, it should be in the gitlab02:02
devuanwannabe36hey there, anybody out there?02:05
devuanwannabe36" " " listening-in that is?02:05
devuanwannabe36awesum! just wanted to confirm that is the best place to visit02:08
devuanwannabe36.. outside the dng mailing-list that is, for going from ASCII to Beowulf02:09
devuanwannabe36b/c last post on is four months old02:10
devuanwannabe36otoh, might be better to just search-on and lurk around ...02:15
devuanwannabe36"The officially official Devuan Forum"
gnarfacedevuanwannabe36: that's really the forum, if that's what you're asking02:16
devuanwannabe36guess that by default Silence Indicates Assent02:16
fsmithredand that's not the best place to get upgrade info02:16
fsmithredthat thread is old and has a lot of obsolete info02:17
devuanwannabe36fsmithred, ty tho don't see a better place for upgrade info w/o scouring the dng list02:18
fsmithredchange sources, update, dist-upgrade, reboot02:19
fsmithredhow many extra steps there are between dist-upgrade and reboot depends on what you've got installed02:20
fsmithredyou want to upgrade a system that you're already using, or you want to make a fresh ascii install and upgrade it?02:20
fsmithredif it's the former, be very cautious, if the latter, go for it. Start small and upgrade, then add stuff.02:21
devuanwannabe36ty agin... makes sense of the latter fresh ASCII then upgrade02:22
devuanwannabe36mayB some1 'll put that upgrade info on the forum and make it into sticky for others?02:24
fsmithredsure, once it's stable02:24
fsmithredso it doesn't end up being obsolete info02:24
fsmithreda few things are still changing, and they may affect the exact procedure02:25
fsmithredpolicykit, consolekit and elogind are still doing a dance02:26
devuanwannabe36'kay ty, will keep eye out for things, gotta go. until later..... bye02:27
buZz> if [ $BLSTATUS != $OLDBLSTATUS ]; then06:28
buZzdoesnt work to see that "0" changed to "1" or back06:28
buZzannoying bash :P06:28
buZzhmmm, maybe -ne06:29
buZzstill nope06:29
furrywolfI despise bash.06:30
buZzi just dont want to use something heavier, this is on a 32MB machine06:30
furrywolfif (( BLSTATUS != OLDBLSTATUS )) , I think...06:30
buZz(( )) ?06:31
buZzwell, its not really bash or sh06:31
buZzits whatever busybox has06:31
furrywolfI can't remember which one needs the $ and which one does not.06:31
buZzDonkeyHotei: ahh thanks06:31
DonkeyHoteialmquist shell06:32
systemdletealmost shell06:33
furrywolf(( )) is for numbers, [[ ]] is for strings, [ ] is for built-in tests06:34
furrywolfif you want to compare it as strings, then do [[ "$BLSTATUS" != "$OLDBLSTATUS" ]], or use (( )) and no quotes for numbers.06:35
DonkeyHoteithere is no (( ))06:35
buZzseems (( )) is trying to execute the '1' thats inside the first var06:35
furrywolf...  I have written way too much bash, and there's definitely (( ))....06:35
DonkeyHotei[[ ]] is a bash thing for built-in tests06:36
buZz[[ ]] and [ ] have the same result in ash, it seems06:36
furrywolfthe last script I wrote uses (( )) 58 times, according to grep and wc -l.  :)06:36
DonkeyHotei[ ] is normally the [ executable, but is a built-in in ash06:36
buZzi guess i can just use bc and subtract the two numbers, if outcome is zero its unchanged06:37
furrywolfoh, so this isn't bash.06:37
DonkeyHoteithere is $(( ))06:37
buZzits busybox's ash06:37
DonkeyHoteinot (( ))06:37
furrywolfI've only written for real bash.06:37
DonkeyHotei$(( )) is for numbers in bash06:37
DonkeyHoteibut bash will also accept $[ ]06:38
furrywolfno, $( is command substitution.  plain (( )) is how you do ifs with numbers.06:38
DonkeyHoteino, $( ) is command substitution, $(( )) is for numbers06:38
DonkeyHoteithere is no plain (( ))06:38
furrywolfI have written literally thousands of (( ))s.06:39
furrywolfhere, I'll start pasting lines from my last script, which does work.06:39
furrywolfif (( quiet < 3 ))06:39
furrywolfif (( fixaddrs > 0 )) && (( savesql == 0 ))06:39
furrywolf    if (( wipedb > 0 ))06:39
furrywolfetc etc06:39
DonkeyHoteii was referring to calculations06:40
furrywolf       ((expression))06:40
furrywolf              The expression is evaluated according  to  the  rules  described06:40
furrywolf              below  under ARITHMETIC EVALUATION.06:40
DonkeyHoteie.g. echo $(( 1 + 2 ))06:40
furrywolfbuzz's question was a conditional.  <buZz:#devuan> > if [ $BLSTATUS != $OLDBLSTATUS ]; then06:41
furrywolfI answered with how to do a conditional with numbers.06:41
furrywolfI also showed how to do it as strings, with [[ ]].06:41
buZzit was working , had a typo06:41
buZzread -r OLDPSUSTATUS < $blstatustemp06:41
buZzshould have been OLDBLSTATUS06:42
buZzok! now i can monitor backlight and charging with 1 minute intervals \o/ just need to add timestamp logging, parsing and some kind of output06:42
furrywolfalso, note that you can do assignments within (( )).  for example, I usually do things like        (( totalroutes++ ))06:42
furrywolfyou certainly can not say "there is no plain (( ))".06:43
buZzthere is none in ash06:43
furrywolfyou asked about bash.  :P06:43
buZzthat i can see06:43
buZzyeah ;) mea culpa06:43
furrywolfin any case, I absolutely despise bash.  I've written a lot of it.  and it never gets any less painful.06:44
buZzwelp, not as bad as batch files :P06:44
furrywolffor example, the script I'm pasting these from takes a pdf file, extracts information from it, validates it, and puts it in a sqlite db.06:44
furrywolfit also does address parsing, which is painful in any language, because people are fucking idiots and can't figure out how to format their own addresses.06:45
furrywolfso you get things like #B PO BOX 17 128 MAIN ST AVE APT B UPSTAIRS, MISSPELDE CYIT, CA, ZIP-THREEOFFOURDIGITS....06:46
DonkeyHoteidoesn't usps have an api for correcting those?06:47
furrywolfthe fix address script uses (( )) 40 times.  :P06:47
furrywolfdunno.  some days I'd much rather correct them with a 2x4.  :P06:48
furrywolfit's mostly a horrible mess of regexs and conditionals.  '^([0-9]*)([A-Z]*) ?(1/2)? ([^,]*), ((([[:print:]]*),? ([0-9]{5})-?([0-9]{4})? *)|(([[:print:]]*)))'06:49
furrywolfit's especially easy to maintain because it grabs some of the regexs from a couple files at runtime.  :P06:51
furrywolf(yes, that's a joke)06:51
systemdleteperl, for me06:52
furrywolfmy perl is pretty rusty.  it's one of the languages I've mostly modified rather than written.06:54
furrywolfI've done c, c++, bash, perl, basic, pascal, prolog, lisp, ml, esterel, perl, java, ircii, and a bunch of others that I can't think of because it's past my bedtime.06:57
furrywolfI won't touch python, or in any other way encourage its existence.06:57
furrywolfoh, and I hate php, despite writing lots of it.06:59
systemdleteI'm not a fan of python.  I found that it could not do (easily) what perl does naturally (and easily)07:00
furrywolfI'm not a fan of either the language or the development process that created it.07:00
systemdleteredirecting IO from a process, I followed the examples, modifying as necessary, but could not get it to work without hauling in all sorts of extra routines07:00
systemdleteperl or python or both?07:01
systemdletesome people HATE perl, I am well aware.07:01
furrywolflike how they break everything with every interpreter version so badly that debian minor-version depends python packages on the interpreter.07:01
furrywolfoh, I don't mind perl.  python I won't use.07:01
systemdletephp... well, it actually isn't too bad for what it does do.  It was created to handle the "stateless" matter of web sites, and seems to do that well.  But I find that perl can do all that and much more easily07:02
furrywolfexample:  Package: borgbackup  Depends: python3 (<< 3.6), python3 (>= 3.5~)07:03
furrywolfdebian has to do this because the python interpreter is so unstable that minor version bumps break scripts07:03
furrywolfit's also a total bitch to compile, and everything written in it seems buggier than it should be.07:04
systemdleteI also think that relying on indentation...07:04
systemdletefor syntax...07:04
systemdletesort of reminds me of IBM punch cards (lookout for column 6!  It's the continuation indicator)07:05
* rrq thinks he's landed at #debianfork07:05
furrywolfyeah, that's one of the many reasons I won't use it.07:05
* systemdlete thinks rrq is making a not-so-subtle hint guys...07:06
furrywolfI haven't used any of the new trendy languages yet.  go, etc.07:06
furrywolfrust, c#07:06
furrywolftime for me to get to bed.  bbl.07:09
systemdleteqlipper (LXDE clipboard in Ascii) not working for me. Apparently, others have had issue also.08:02
systemdletein fact, the clipboard works on and off, but I haven't figured out the pattern yet08:07
systemdleteI tried parcellite, but it isn't working well either.08:07
phillipsjkX apparently has two clipboard: one where you use the explicit copy+pates command, and another where text you highlight goes into the clipboard.08:11
systemdleteI've tried both ways of pasting.  Neither work... sometimes, that is.  Sometimes, it does work.08:12
* phillipsjk just had mozilla prove him wrong08:12
systemdletethe reporter of that bug seems to infer that clipman worked for him...08:13
phillipsjkI think the problem with mozilla is that it auto-selects the addres bar on you.08:14
systemdletewell, this is copy from web page (firefox) and paste to cmd line (in terminal window)08:14
gnarfacemozilla's clipboard is part of gtk i believe08:37
gnarfacethe one that works on everything is the one that is part of Xorg08:37
gnarfaceboth of them will copy highlighted text08:37
gnarfacebut only the gtk one also has keyboard activators08:38
gnarfaceother toolkits probably all have their own clipboards too08:38
gnarfacei don't know if some window managers additionally add their own08:38
systemdletenormally, I have not had to do ANYTHING to get clipboards to work.  This is unusual.09:09
systemdleteI mean, in any distro/desktop.  Though I have encountered some problems with some clipboards that were not compatible (due to some kind of mismatch/support issues beyond the reach of the distros)09:10
systemdleteparcellite seemed to work, but I noticed errors in the terminal window where I launched it manually.09:12
systemdlete(xfce4-clipman:10412): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_window_get_window_type: assertion 'GDK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed09:12
systemdleteso obviously, there is some sort of misconfiguration in this release of lxqt09:13
systemdleteIt's mainly the paste part that isn't working.  But sometimes the copy'd string doesn't show in the clipboard popup with the history-- it just shows a blank.  If I clicked on it, though, it would sometimes paste the correct (expeccted) selection09:16
systemdletemaybe I'll switch to xfce instead09:16
systemdleteor cinnamon, if that's fully supported09:17
amarsh04using lxdm and plasma here10:06
amarsh04having to restart lxdm after loading a new kernel though - Radeon Cedar gpu10:08
halftuxhi I have a problem devuan ascii net install hangs during select and install software: Installed discover (amd64) on a PPC-3150s-RAE intel celeron N2930. Can't get with strg+F4 to debug console tried also i386 and it is the same behavior. Any suggestions?14:47
Bureki can't find netinst download, can someone point me in the right way?15:07
halftuxgo to one mirror under installer-iso15:07
Burekalso, any news on new devuan?15:07
Burekohhh, thank you!15:08
halftuxfor example devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso15:08
Burekyeah, found it. i totally missed it the first time15:09
halftuxthe advantech PPC-3150s-RAE has a realtek rtl8821AE mini pcie card installed will try another installation without this card and see if I can get around this freeze15:10
halftuxok now I could go further by changing in the bios the chipset southbridge configuration from windows 7 to windows 8/1015:45
phillipsjkSo it hangs during select and install software, not hardware detection? Maybe see if you can reproduce it with Windows installation media..16:26
phillipsjkMaybe try booting from a different USB port as well. My cheap laptop has some flaky ports. (But all the ports on that machine look clustered together)16:37
halftuxthx but I could fix it with the above bios settings change. Now I have a different problem the touchscreen is not recognized properly16:53
halftuxis the kernel from devuan ascii unchanged compared to debain stretch?17:01
phillipsjkIt is 4.9.x, not sure what stretch uses17:02
halftuxok does devuan ascii apply some changes to the original 4.9.0 kernel sources?17:03
halftuxthe thing is I can't find in the devuan repo a kernel-image so I thought it uses the kernel from debian17:06
phillipsjkI am new to devuan, and not fully awake. You may have to wait for somebody else to chime in.17:08
* phillipsjk has not used debian for over a year now17:10
golinux90+% of our packages come from Debian via redirect.17:24
halftuxthank you for that information but how can I identify (on this pkginfo) if a found package is redirected to debian?17:28
halftuxand there I can see that ascii has some backports with newer kernel :D which repository I need to add to the source.list to get the backports?17:30
yeti$ apt-cache show weechat | grep ^Filename17:31
yetiFilename: pool/DEBIAN/main/w/weechat/weechat_2.3-1_all.deb17:31
yetithe path can be taken a shint17:31
yetiprob'ly there is a more intelligent method to find debian packages17:32
yetibut this was the 1st idea i had17:32
halftuxmaybe like I did looking into the repo and when the package is not listed it is a redirect? But thx for your apt-cache hint17:33
yetifor backports, add beowulf-backports main contrib non-free17:33
yetior via some other hostname17:34
yetiwith ascii instead of beowulf17:34
yetiI just grabbed it from the system I'm running now17:34
halftuxwonderful thx17:34
yetiall my asciis are sleepinf17:35
* yeti needs bigger keys or smaller fingers17:35
halftuxso beowulf runs nearly stable?17:35
* yeti doesnt need much17:35
yetimostly nonGUIish but this box has xfce too17:36
yetijust for fun...17:36
yetibut mostly I use it over mosh17:36
* yeti spends 87¾% of the day in xterm+screen17:37
yeti$ uptime17:37
yeti 15:37:38 up 26 days,  1:35,  6 users,  load average: 0.22, 0.28, 0.2717:37
yetiand 26 days ago wasnt a crash... it was kernel update17:38
yetiI had some problems with 4.9 kernels on PCs and ARM17:38
yetibut 4.19 looks stable17:38
halftuxI will try with the backports kernel and when this will not work I think I need to patch and compile the kernel17:39
golinuxyeti: auto.mirror is deprecated18:04
yetiok18:05 is current18:05
yetihave that too on my saources.list18:05
yetisome weeks ago there was some hiccup18:05
yetineeded that addon18:05
golinuxI would try pkgmaster before auto.18:06
golinuxauto was for jessie and only maintained because it is on the isos.  When jessie is EOL, I suspect that auto,mirror will disappear18:07
yetiok... deb.* and pkgmaster.* now... and pkgmaster lines #-ed18:10
yetiprepared for whatever may come ;-)18:10
yetishouldnt devuan packages end in .dev?  :-D18:11
fsmithredyeti, packages from debian that we rebuild get +devuan in the version.20:38

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