libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2019-10-02

XenguyStrange, I have the same version of Emacs installed on 2 different laptops (both running Ascii), and one populates the Applications menu with an icon, and the other laptop does not02:58
gnarfacefind /usr/share/icons/ -iname '*emacs*'02:59
XenguyIt runs fine if invoked from the CLI, spawning Spacemacs which is my current configuration02:59
Xenguygnarface: tx, will try that02:59
gnarface^ does this command output the same thing on both installs or something different02:59
XenguyWill test that02:59
gnarfaceif it's the same output, try just running "touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor" on the one where the icon doesn't show up.03:02
gnarfacethere was some bug where the icon caches sometimes don't update after a package install if the icons directory timestamp doesn't change03:03
gnarfacesomething like that anyway.03:03
Xenguyfind /usr/share/icons/ -iname '*emacs*' |wc -l03:03
Xenguy3003:03
gnarfacea quick google search shows people have also suggested to "touch ~/.local/share/icons/hicolor" if it exists, and to run update-icon-caches and gtk-icon-caches03:04
gnarfaceer, no i'ts gtk-update-icon-cache03:04
Xenguy^^ It is the same packages on both laptops03:04
gnarfacei never had to do any of those last steps but i did once have to touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor03:04
XenguyOK, will check for hicolor03:04
gnarfaceif none of that works, try it from a new user.  it is totally possible the window manager has it's own cache of icons and it could be sabotaged in various ways03:05
gnarfacebut usually such caches are per-user03:05
gnarfaceso it would in theory only show up on one of them at a time03:05
gnarfacea freshly created user would not see the issue in that case03:05
gnarfaceand it may or may not be relevant, but fyi i only have 7 emacs icons here...03:06
gnarfacehttp://paste.debian.net/1103563/03:07
gnarface(one for every standard icon size, and two in vector format)03:07
gnarfaceit says mine are all in the package emacs-common but this is on ceres so ymmv03:09
gnarface(note also that if the window manager has it's own icon cache, it could persist in your home directory somewhere even after the system icons are uninstalled)03:10
gnarface(that happens with enlightenment)03:10
fsmithredXenguy, you have two menu entries and one has an icon?03:13
Xenguytechnical difficulties folks *sigh*, bear with me03:15
Xenguygnarface:  update-icon-caches /usr/share/icons/hicolor03:15
Xenguy?03:15
golinuxcacheS?03:16
Xenguyfsmithred: I have 2 laptops and only 1 has the icons03:16
gnarfaceXenguy: no, it just said to run it with no parameters, but as root03:16
Xenguygolinux: I think that's the right command03:16
gnarfaceXenguy: the other command was "touch /usr/share/icons/hicolor" which should just update the timestamp to current03:16
golinux<gnarface> er, no i'ts gtk-update-icon-cache03:16
Xenguygnarface: I got a syntax help message, implying I needed to specify a directory03:17
Xenguygnarface: I did the touch command already03:17
gnarfacegolinux: i had them both here, and separate forum posts in the same thread mentioned both of them03:17
gnarfaceXenguy: sorry, just dug that out of a forum online.  didn't try it myself.03:18
XenguyThanks for helping03:18
* Xenguy tries to finish reading the buffer above...03:18
fsmithredare the icons there? You could just edit the .desktop file and point it to an icon file.03:19
Xenguyfsmithred: I'm fine with that, if it works, but I don't know these inner workings03:19
fsmithredthere should be a file /usr/share/applicaitons/emacs.desktop or something like that03:20
fsmithredand a line in it for Icon:03:20
gnarfaceXenguy: this might shed some light http://paste.debian.net/1103564/03:20
fsmithredthat line can take an icon name or a file path03:20
Xenguy(This is a new laptop, and has a different feel from the one I'm used to, so I am really slooooooowwwwwww ATM03:20
Xenguyfsmithred: Yeah, there is a file here:  /usr/share/applicaitons/emacs.desktop03:23
Xenguyer03:23
Xenguyfsmithred: Yeah, there is a file here:  /usr/share/applications/emacs25.desktop03:23
gnarfacei have one of those but the Icon line just says Icon=emacs03:24
gnarfaceno path03:24
gnarfacefsmithred: the issue is he's got two of the same installs and he's trying to figure out why only one of them seems to be not finding the emacs icons that are clearly present.03:25
XenguyIcon=emacs2503:25
Xenguybrb03:25
gnarfacefsmithred: so i thought maybe it could be an icon cache issue03:25
gnarfacesince that's been come up with before03:25
gnarfacehmmm03:25
gnarfacebut Icon=emacs25 looks kinda wrong03:25
gnarfacehowever the explanation for that might be linked to why he's got 30 emacs icons and i only have 703:26
Xenguyfsmithred: Maybe I can specify a path03:27
Xenguygnarface: I installed emacs25 package03:27
XenguyOther laptop has the same config value03:28
gnarfacehmmm, well that has definitely changed since ascii.03:29
gnarfacein ceres it's just called "emacs" again03:29
Xenguy14 lines in each file; they are the same03:30
XenguyMaybe I'll just try purging it, and reinstalling03:30
XenguyMaybe not purging the config files tho03:30
gnarfacewell it does seem as though in ascii there are two versions of emacs, and in beowulf there are several03:31
gnarfacebut in ceres it's currently back down to one03:31
XenguyIn Ascii (my only concern) I think I saw emacs24 and emacs2503:32
XenguyAnyhow, this is just annoying03:32
gnarfacethis could even be the type of bug that is upset by what order packages were installed in03:32
XenguyI haven't seen an icon not populate in a long time03:32
XenguyCould be03:32
gnarfacei do admit it will be much easier to fix probably than figure out what actually went wrong so you can bug report it though03:32
XenguyI don't have time for that, as unfortunately my life is currently accelerating wildly03:33
XenguyThat is why the timing of this is so vexating03:33
XenguyI may just have to say fuck you emacs, for awhile, or just run it off the CLI03:33
gnarfacei prefer it in the cli too, typically03:34
XenguyNo03:34
XenguyJust no  : -)03:34
XenguyAnyhow folks, thanks for the help, I'll try a reinstall, and otherwise invoke it off the CLI for now I think, until the dust starts to settle03:35
gnarfacewell, let us know if purging and reinstalling helps03:35
gnarfacethere's nothing else anyone can really do other than offer emotional support until you can reproduce the cause of the issue03:36
Xenguygnarface: Will do.  When I said CLI I meant invoking the GUI Emacs via CLI03:36
gnarfaceare we talking about emacs or xemacs here?03:36
XenguyI won't use xemacs, just as I won't use neovim03:37
gnarfacejust trying to be sure03:37
XenguyUnderstood03:37
gnarfacebecause xemacs is an entirely different thing and i see it is also in ascii03:37
XenguyTrue03:37
gnarfacei prefer to run the regular emacs in terminal mode just because i don't really gain much from the graphical menus and borders03:38
gnarfaceif my icons weren't showing up for it, i doubt i'd have noticed03:38
XenguyI'm using Spacemacs ATM, so it matters to me03:38
gnarfaceSpacemacs?  never heard of it03:38
XenguySpacemacs uses emacs' evil-mode to provide vi key bindings, and also has a nice default emacs configuration that uses the 'Space' key for functionality and discoverability of same03:39
XenguyIt's Emacs for Vim users03:40
XenguyOr one decent implementation03:40
gnarfacethat's very strange but i'm not one to judge03:40
gnarfacegood luck to you03:40
XenguyWell I would simply never use Emacs otherwise; the default key bindings are simply garbage (to me)03:41
gnarfacethat is a very common reaction03:41
XenguyHaving an Emacs/Vim-keys hybrid makes the whole experiment worthwhile03:41
XenguySome people actually have brains that can work with regular Emacs, but I have a Vim-brain03:42
gnarfacei thought they just put evil-mode in there as a joke.  i didn't realize people actually used it.03:42
gnarfaceyou know the whole joke used to go "emacs is a great operating system, all it's missing is a decent text editor" so someone added vim as a major mode :-p03:42
gnarfacethen you couldn't say it lacked a decent text editor anymore03:42
gnarfacebut in my head i had weighed the seriousness of this effort along side M-x butterfly and M-x doctor03:43
Xenguyevil-mode actually is an *extremely* good implementation of vim key-binding (although evil-matchit is lacking as I found out)03:43
XenguyI think it is a decent 'best of both worlds' type of effort03:43
gnarfaceinteresting03:44
XenguySpacemacs I mean03:44
XenguyThere is also a (unix only?) version called Doom Emacs, which is similar, but I haven't tried it03:44
XenguyWhereas I know Spacemacs runs on Windows also03:45
XenguyOK, stressful day, some I'm off to chill for awhile.  Thanks for the chat03:46
Xenguy*so I'm03:46
gnarfacepeace03:46
Xenguyout03:46
XenguyP.S. Was able to create a 'launcher' in MATE and replicate the config from the other laptop, so I at least have an icon on the desktop now.  Good enough for the time being!03:59
XenguyP.P.S Was able to drag'n'drop that icon to the Panel, so the only place the launch icon doesn't appear is in the 'Applications' menu, which is no biggie04:01
epicmetalA while back I was told that Devuan stable had newer package versions for some packages compared to Devuan unstable for whatever reason. Is this still happening?04:34
epicmetali.e. somehow dev work was being done in testing/stable instead of letting it trickle down from unstable04:35
Lippsfluxbox ftw04:44
furrywolficewm!  :P04:45
* Lipps puts up the fisticuffs04:46
* furrywolf growls04:47
Lippsi'll check icewm out04:47
epicmetaldwm.exe04:48
golinuxAnd how is this a support discussion?04:50
epicmetalI had a support question04:52
epicmetalAnd then it was WM wars 201904:52
golinuxYes, there are some version conflicts.04:54
golinuxIt's been discussed on the forum.  Since I'm still running jessie, I haven't run into those issues.04:55
epicmetalOh ok04:55
golinuxwine32 has issues and maybe some of the policykit stuff.04:55
furrywolfepicmetal:  I think you are vastly overestimating the seriousness of said wars.  :P04:56
epicmetalfurrywolf: not really  :)04:57
epicmetalI enjoy the wars04:57
epicmetalgolinux: I was considering running Ceres on my laptop a while back but that turned me off04:57
epicmetali.e. it seemed strange to violate policy like that04:58
epicmetalPresumably Devuan has a similar policy to Debian in that respect, that is being temporarily overridden?04:58
golinuxiiuc it has to do with they way version numbers are forced when the packages are rebuilt.04:59
golinuxYou can't rebuild a package using the same version number05:00
epicmetalI'm not sure of specific packages/versions since it was ages ago that I came across this.05:00
epicmetalBut isn't in impossible in Debian to have a package in stable that is a higher version than testing/unstable?05:00
golinuxFor the most part I am completely unaware of versions.05:01
golinuxBut know that apt keep close track05:01
epicmetalI mean like Devuan published package foo-1.2 into stable but foo-1.0 is in unstable, for example05:01
epicmetalThis doesn't happen in Debian05:02
plasma41epicmetal: yes there are a few packages that are newer in stable that in testing/unstable. Off the top of my head I know udisk2 is currently one of the problem packages with that issue.05:02
furrywolfsometimes you have to use a newer version to make something work right, work around a systemd dependency, etc.05:03
plasma41epicmetal: This is an issue that needs fixing. We were less strict about the unstable->testing->stable with previous releases. We're are trying to be more strict about that now.05:03
epicmetalplasma41: I see. udisks2-2.1.8 in Ascii; udisks2-2.1.3 in Jessie/Beowulf/Ceres; udisks2-2.6.5 in Experimental05:04
epicmetalAscii is current stable, right?05:04
plasma41epicmetal: correct05:05
epicmetalOk05:05
furrywolfit's kinda hard to do the usual unstable-testing-stable progression when someone else is deciding when to move everything else between them...05:05
golinuxThat's why we use codenames05:06
plasma41epicmetal: Also today I discovered that issue is present for the libpcsclite1 package05:08
epicmetalI see, 1.8.22 in Ascii; 1.8.13 elsewhere.05:08
plasma41epicmetal: the testing and unstable versions are the same as the old-stable version. all older than the stable version05:09
epicmetalfurrywolf: fair enough, I don't really understand the dynamic but it's not hard to imagine that being the case somehow05:09
epicmetalAll I know is Devuan automatically pulls from Sid somehow05:10
plasma41And this is why Devuan Beowulf isn't stable yet05:10
epicmetalI like that the codenames are alphabetical though :)05:10
furrywolfalphabetical but not alliterative, thankfully.  :)05:11
epicmetalOverloading "Jessie" wasn't a great idea though, IMO05:11
epicmetalfurrywolf: less chance of cringe I guess05:11
epicmetalThe Devuan codenames (except Jessie) are pretty cool05:11
plasma41furrywolf: you don't like utopic unicorns? :)05:12
epicmetalSo far, much cooler than Debian/Ubuntu codenames05:12
furrywolfactually, I wouldn't mind alliterative codenames, as long as we were more interesting than certain other distros doing the same thing.05:13
epicmetalIt's nice to to have spaces in the codename though05:14
epicmetalnot to*05:14
epicmetalEasier to type also05:14
epicmetalHarder to Google05:14
epicmetal(namespace conflict)05:14
epicmetalThat's where Ubuntu's codenames are good05:14
furrywolfmy favorite is the program "analog".  because you want to make damn sure no one can ever google for your program.05:15
plasma41I'm especially glad the codenames don't contain any punctuation. I seem to recall hearing the codename of an old release of Fedora contained an apostrophe and introduced bugs as a result.05:17
furrywolfwhy can I not find the program I was thinking of?  apparantly I suck.  "analog" is a log analyzer, but there's also a circuit simulator named that, or so I thought...05:20
furrywolfgrrr.  this is annoying.  I can't remember the name of a program I know exists, or find it.  heh.05:27
furrywolfGRRR.  it was fucking called "analog", just like I thought.  except all mention of it seems to have been erased from the internet.05:33
furrywolfapparantly every single reference to it existing, outside of a few papers from the '80s and '90s, has rotted away.05:36
golinux#debianfork calls furrywolf05:38
furrywolflooks like it was last built in 2002, after changing name to chipmunk-log due to analog's ungooglability...  but you can still get it!  http://archive.debian.org/debian//pool/main/c/chipmunk-log/05:39
Shentinofurries are nice people for the most part05:51
furrywolfI'd say the vast majority of them are.  :)05:54
furrywolfand there's at least four in this channel...  five if we pool our money and buy golinux a fursuit.  :P06:05
fsmithredshe'd shave it06:06
onefangPartially furry me (OK, just bearded me) suggests the off topic furry talk should go to #debianfurry, er I mean #debianfork, just as golinux suggested.06:07
furrywolfnoted, will stick to on-topic furry talk only.  :)06:13
golinuxAnd dye it yellow!06:17
Lippswhat advantages does chipmunk-log confer furrywolf06:31
furrywolfyou can modify circuits in real-time and see what they do, rather than the batch-based simulation of most/all other programs.  in #debianfork I mentioned that it still builds, using the source from  http://opencircuitdesign.com/~tim/programs/chipmunk/index.html06:33
onefangIt's on-topic furry talk, since chipmunks are a furry species.  That's one of the advantages.  B-)06:33
furrywolfit is, however, very old.  when you run it, it greets you with "Welcome to the all new AnaLOG for the '90s!  (C) 1993"...06:34
furrywolfbbl, bedtime for wolfies.06:50
sicelooh nice .. so there's a devuan build that should work on CHIP. i should find mine18:07
jaromilour tests on CHIP were deluding however. thing overheats very fast. not sure a new version is out18:21
sicelommm, overheating with just the base system running?18:22
siceloanyone ever tested the Droid 4 images? i'm currently downloading that18:22
buZzjaromil: huh? A10/A13 shouldnt overheat really18:35
buZzpower management of that should be fine in mainline18:35
Lippssicelo: good man.  there is #devuan-arm i think18:52
Lippsdroid 4 rules18:52
siceloah yes, #devuan-arm. let me join18:54
siceloi've tested the N900 image a couple of months ago .. that one works :)18:54
Lippsyou going to run mer on it sicelo ?18:55
sicelomer on droid 4? no. does it work well on it?18:55
Lippsidk18:56
Lippsstill using sailfish18:56
siceloi'm using LOS14.1. and experimenting with Maemo Leste too18:56
Lippso right leste is the new one, forgot18:59
siceloit's painfully slow on droid 4 though, due to no acceleration.18:59
Lippsis someone working on that?19:00
buZz#maemo-leste is working on maemo leste19:00
Lipps'that' being the graphics drivers19:01
siceloyes different people are doing their best .. there is hope that the PowerVR will be able to work with mainline kernel (no, no open drivers beingw worked on)19:03
sicelohttps://github.com/openpvrsgx-devgroup/linux_openpvrsgx19:04
buZzask imgtec to release the docs if you want a proper open powervr driver19:07
buZz(they wont)19:07
Lippswhy does that list 812,220 commits?  looks like commits from kernel itself19:07
buZzmaybe its a fork of the linux kernel? :)19:08
buZzoh hey, it is19:08
buZzwho knew19:08
BeerbelottMirror 141.84.43.19 down?20:05
BeerbelottSeems to fail since 14:35 UTC20:06
r3bootcould be anything. Why dont you just failover to another mirror?20:07
r3bootalso .. doesnt devuan come with some sort of loadbalancing mechanism for this??20:07
r3bootif you use the default of deb.devuan.org, your dns should failover if you retry20:08
nexgenhello20:11
nexgenI cannot redirect connection from host to qemu guest20:11
nexgenit is reset20:11
nexgenvisible for a short period of time in guest netstat -anp420:12
nexgenand then time wait20:12
nexgenafter syn20:12
nexgennot established20:12
nexgena few times I was able somehow to establish a connection from telnet20:12
nexgennot sure how20:12
nexgenonly twice20:12
nexgenthen does not work20:12
Lippswhat domain name is that supposed to have nexgen20:16
nexgenI am not sure about domain name20:16
nexgenwhat do you mean?20:16
Lippslike this.is.a.domain.name20:16
nexgenssh -p 1222 localhost20:16
nexgenssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host20:16
Lippsdeb.devuan.org is a domain name20:16
nexgenhow domain name is related to my problem?20:17
nexgenI do not use domain names for a local QEMU VM guest20:17
Lippssorry i meant Beerbelott20:18
EvilhamBeerbelott: yup, it's down20:19
Evilhamit's down since 14:32 actuall ;-)20:20
Evilham*it's been20:20
Evilhammonitoring actually does work, but there is no alerting in place because otherwise I'd go crazy :-)20:20
Evilhamthe mirror has been removed20:20
BeerbelottEvilham: Thx :)20:44
r3bootEvilham: hmm, is that dns entry automatically managed btw?20:44
BeerbelottThat's why I did myself a lil script to actively monitor & warn me ;)20:45
r3bootI mean, it would make sense to have some healthcheck mechanism running for all mirrors, and use the output of that to dynamically generate the A/AAAA records for deb.devuan.org20:45
Evilhamr3boot: yeah :-p it'd be great20:46
Evilhambut it's not the case atm20:46
r3bootwhich dns server do you ppl use?20:46
BeerbelottYou could do that (dirtily) with a poor man's script + rdnc reload on changes20:46
r3bootyeah, something along those lines, maybe with a bit of intelligence to detect flapping or so20:47
BeerbelottEvilham: Are you interested in the shameful piece of Bash script I use?20:47
BeerbelottYou could insert the DNS zone edit/reload in it20:47
EvilhamBeerbelott: not really :-D thanks for the offer though; the thing in-place does more than just checking HTTP for up/down and is working just fine20:48
BeerbelottI think I am not even checking the HTTP level, might just be level 420:48
Beerbelottbut OK the offer still stand in the future ;)20:48
EvilhamBeerbelott: I'm saving data to be able to generate these statistics already :-) https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190920.170310.d1c43960.en.html20:49
r3bootmja, this is also something I'd be willing to help out with, I like loadbalancers in a way :)20:49
BeerbelottGJ on that :)20:49
Beerbelotthit me if you need a pair of hands20:50
BeerbelottWell, figuratively :p20:50
BeerbelottAlrighty folks, have a good one20:51
Evilhamr3boot: thanks for the offer too, I'd be more tempted to do something *twisted*, it's trivial to add an API and use downtime data to modify the zone20:54
Evilhamsince it implements HTTP and DNS, it can also do location-based DNS views and stuff20:54
r3bootOh, sweet20:55
r3bootthat sounds like powerdns tho :)20:55
Evilhamyeah, that's another option :-D20:55
r3bootpdns has a pipe backend, allowing you to build geo-based views20:55
Evilhamlet's just say the issue atm is not not knowing how to do it :-)20:55
r3bootcheck ^_^20:55
Evilhamr3boot: if you are interested in helping out, I am sure there are other things that can be done though20:56
r3bootnot per-se; I'm halfway in a process where I went from spending 15 odd years of doing OMG-UNIX to being fed up with it and moving on, but I love infra/networking related stuff, and have built/worked on quite some bought/homemade solutions, so one thing I can do is help think :)20:58
Evilhamr3boot: also, did you see the talk from $pdns person talking about DoH? it was pretty interesting :-p20:58
r3bootyeah, I've read an article from Geoff Hutson about it, although the focus there was on google DoH + chrome20:59
r3bootsick stuff, and its something I kind of expected when I noticed that google is trying to find ways around getting an alternative to TCP in place20:59
r3boottl;dr, google would be able to take over control of global DNS for some 30% of internet users21:00
r3bootand mozilla/cf are trying to do the same thing21:01
Evilhamaye, this is the talk btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjin3nv8jAo&t=81521:01
r3boot(and the same thing goes for their public dns services as well, btw ...)21:01
r3bootthnx, *click*21:01
Evilhamanyway :-D that's probably enough tangentially relevant topic here21:01
r3bootjaw-dropping evil stuff iig :)21:02
KjetilLet us make everything run over HTTP(s) because it makes.. all the sence in the world21:02
Kjetilor none of it21:02
r3bootyep, because interoperability is hard, and nobody wants to write network protocols21:02
KjetilBefore we know it. DNS will be replaced with JSON-documents21:03
specingnah21:03
r3bootbrowsers, sure, your OS, not so likely21:03
specingit'll be a REST API21:03
Kjetilah yes. The magic words "REST" and "API"21:04
Evilham:-D ehem, soryr, I didn't mean to start a very long off-topic rant here, it was just because it is an interesting talk and we did start with Devuan's DNS/mirror infra21:04
Evilhamcan you guys move it to #devuanfork?21:04
Evilham*#debianfork21:04
r3bootyeah, sorry :)21:04
specingno21:04
sixwheeledbeastjson documents? Lets go back to the days of a distributed hosts file21:10
Kjetilwith rsync?21:10
KjetilDNS over Trump <321:12
retakLOL21:33
yetikey value pairs slemm nach symlinks...22:47
yetislemm->smell22:47
yetimeh! what a rotation22:47
jaromilmason: yay23:21
masonThat worked. Thank you. And again, apologies for my poor performance that earned me the ban in the first place.23:21

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