libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-10-10

TwoTaIlno systemd for me02:45
TwoTaIlIf this is the distro like slackware that doesn't have systemd I would be interested in installing it on a ASUS X551 , is there a way to see if my laptop is compatable before I download?02:49
gnarfaceTwoTaIl: sure, get one of the live images and try that first02:52
gnarfacehttps://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/desktop-live/02:52
TwoTaIlperfect, thanks02:52
gnarfacethough, hope is not all lost if that doesn't work.  sometimes the difference for newer hardware working or not working is just adding the backports kernel02:52
TwoTaIlI just wanted to make sure that this fork didn't use systemd.. that is my only concern actually02:53
gnarfacethis is a pretty slow channel but if you are patient someone will help you eventually with any issues02:53
gnarfacethis fork ONLY exists to prevent the use of systemd.  you're safe.02:53
TwoTaIlso I finally found my home02:53
gnarfaceascii will have some residual systemd cruft in it, but it is safely ignored.02:54
gnarfacethe daemon itself is not present02:54
gnarfacejust some vestigial runtime libraries and config directories02:54
gnarfaceand i think the stock udev daemon is annoyingly named "systemd-udevd" < don't panic if you see that02:54
gnarfacethey're working on making beowulf better02:55
golinuxTwoTaIl: Some history: https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/02:56
golinuxhttp://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12065202:58
TwoTaIlOk, I will bookmark all that and read it as I don't really know what all of this is, but if it is against the big five and microsoft owned github I am on board.03:08
TwoTaIlI am hoping for a fork of github-nosystemd03:09
gnarfacethe project is on a private gitlab, not hosted at github03:10
gnarfacefor whatever that's worth03:10
gnarfacethey don't trust it either, around here03:10
gnarfaceand i don't think the microsoft buyout impacted that situation significantly in either direction03:10
TwoTaIlI believe is isn't about buying it about killing linux, so they own it all. And if the linux sysadmins and coders get on board, I believe they are creating the means to their own end. So I am going to look for a non-systemd os and just enjoy some game of pacman03:13
gnarfacenobody here will question your judgment on that03:14
TwoTaIlAnyway, I am glad your here03:14
gnarfacethere is also #debianfork, a devuan channel dedicated to ranting about it03:14
gnarfacefeel free to vent in there whenever it takes your fancy03:14
gnarface(lots of us are in both channels)03:15
gnarfacethey try to keep this channel clear for support issues, but there is plenty of conversation to be had about the philosophical ones03:15
TwoTaIlok about the gitlab,,, where are you again? I am there but not seeing devuan03:16
gnarfacegit.devuan.org03:16
gnarfacehere^ ?03:16
masonTwoTaIl: Should run. I have an X551M.03:17
masonreading back03:17
gnarfacemason: did you need the ascii-backports kernel?03:17
masongnarface: It's not a new system. Should be fine with ASCII.03:17
gnarfacecool03:17
masongnarface: Let me double check. It's right here.03:17
gnarfaceTwoTaIl: this is the place you're looking, right? git.devuan.org03:19
masonYeah, it'll boot fine. I've evidently not upgraded it, and it's happy with 4.9.0-9.03:20
masonTwoTaIl, gnarface: https://bpaste.net/show/vBs203:23
TwoTaIl[    0.000000] ACPI BIOS Warning (bug): 32/64X length mismatch in FADT/Gpe0Block: 128/32 (20160831/tbfadt-603)03:28
TwoTaIlI don't know anything, having even downloaded it yet, but I would check your bios to make sure that it hasn't changed.03:29
TwoTaIlI would assume that RAID somehow got enabled or security or something.03:30
masonI haven't ever updated that box's firmware. I treat it as a cosmetic warning.03:31
TwoTaIlhello, I looked for the install instructions here https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/blob/master/devuan-install.md but pages are either locked or slow for me03:43
TwoTaIlI am on a 18.04.3 Ubnuntu when a memory stick with two partitions 20gh=b and 60 gb and I have downloaded the ISO,03:44
TwoTaIlI am trying to make a live usb to take a look,03:45
golinuxThere are links on the download page of the website's download pahe03:45
TwoTaIlanyone free03:45
TwoTaIlok brb03:45
golinuxLet me get it for you03:45
TwoTaIlok even better03:45
golinuxhttps://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/live-gui.html03:46
golinuxThat is for the -live isos03:46
fsmithredwhich iso did you download?03:46
golinux(my next question)03:46
golinuxfsmithred: Are we ever going to do a guide for the cli install?03:47
fsmithredmaybe03:47
fsmithredI forgot all about that03:47
golinuxFor Beowulf?03:47
masongolinux: Do you mean the tradition debian-installer character-based install?03:48
fsmithredI'll do it next time I'm testing the installer03:48
fsmithredyes, for beowulf03:48
golinuxWe already have that, mason03:48
fsmithredno, she's talking about refractainstaller03:48
masonoh, oh03:48
fsmithredthe cli version03:48
fsmithredyou might even like that installer - it's retro03:48
masonWas going to say, I'm working on debootstrap-based install scripting right now.03:48
golinuxmason; Have a look: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/03:48
mason40403:49
golinuxI'm pretty syre there is already a debootstrap03:49
fsmithredthere is, but it's all manual03:49
masongolinux: Not likely one that automates setting up mirrored, encrypted ZFS root. =cough=03:49
fsmithredd-i uses debootstrap03:49
golinuxLet me check03:49
fsmithredmason, is it a shell script?03:50
golinuxhttps://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html03:50
masonfsmithred: Yes.03:50
golinuxNavigation is at the bottom03:50
fsmithred:)03:50
masonfsmithred: It's kind of funny. It's a shell script you run from a live environment, and it crafts a shell script that it pops into a chroot environment to finish the install.03:50
onefangI wrote a debootstrap script for installing ASCII on my desktop and server, and I intended to document it, but I got too busy with other stuff.03:50
onefangNo ZFS though.03:50
masonfsmithred: I wrote it for Ubuntu, and I'm porting it to ASCII and soon Beowulf now.03:51
masons/ now// as that's redundant and even a bit conflicting.03:51
fsmithredlive-sdk runs some chroot scripts03:51
masonI'll share it once it's done and tested and if there are ways it could be useful, maybe we can press it into service somehow.03:52
golinuxmason:  It is a chroot not debootstrap https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/master/dev1fanboy03:52
masongolinux: It's both. Useful tools.03:52
fsmithredyeah, the normal way is to start with debootstrap to get a very bare system, then chroot into it to dress it up a bit03:53
masonMm, you still have to set a hostname, locales, etc.03:53
masonpopulate sources.list03:53
fsmithredroot password!03:53
masonAnd that.03:53
fsmithredfun if you forget that03:53
onefangMy script does most of that.03:53
masoninit=/bin/sh!03:53
fsmithredI can tell you what not to do with your script03:54
masononefang: Let's trade after this is done. We can glean bits from each other.03:54
masonfsmithred: Let it rot for years?03:54
masonBecause that's where I am now.03:54
onefanglol03:54
fsmithreddon't try to run synaptic from the chroot - it's possible, but it'll cost around 500mb in your live system03:54
masonhah03:54
fsmithredI tried it recently using xserver-xephyr03:55
fsmithredhm03:55
fsmithredmaybe I didn't try hard enough - I use icewm, but there might be a way to run just synaptic03:55
fsmithredpretty sure I've done that wiht a web browser03:55
* golinux grumbles and gets back to resizing the openrc screenshot It's taken a really long time to maintain font and window size and footer location while reducing the size.03:56
fsmithredI don't understand why the screenshots are not the same size as the old ones03:57
masonfsmithred: Launch synaptic as your window manager.03:57
inklrsomeone please make compositing transparent to root window, not to underlying window03:57
golinuxSorry the end of that got garbled.  It been an exercise in overlays and stitching parts together03:57
fsmithredinklr, go for it!03:57
inklrfsmithred: something i've been wanting a long time (10+ yrs)03:57
inklrthere's too much to learn03:58
golinuxIf not you  . . . who?03:58
fsmithredyou want the transparency to show the desktop background instead of the windows behind the one on top?03:58
inklrgolinux: someone qualified to do it03:58
inklrso i just point to the obvious and say 'see?'03:59
golinuxWe were all unqualified at some point03:59
inklrKeith Packard is ignoring me03:59
TwoTaIlI downloaded devuan ascii 2 amd64 ... but this is an INTEL motherboard. so am I out of luck?03:59
golinuxCosmetics are low on the wishlist04:00
fsmithredno TwoTaIl, intel stole enough that it'll work04:00
fsmithredj/k04:00
golinuxLOL!04:00
gnarfacei mean, that's basically it04:00
onefangAMD64 will work fine on Intel 64 bit CPUs.04:00
fsmithredit's named that because amd64 was the first x86 in 64-bit04:00
inklrgolinux: do you know why desktop environments stopped using root window and started overlaying their own titlebarless window on top of it for the 'desktop'?04:01
TwoTaIlok, so I have the right iso...04:01
fsmithrednetinstall, CD or DVD will give you the debian-installer (it's devuanized)04:01
inklrso if you run some nice mellow xscreensaver or rss-glx in 'root' window, you won't see it04:02
fsmithredlive isos use refractainstaller04:02
fsmithredI don't know what you mean by root window04:03
masonfsmithred: The X root. The background.04:03
masonYou can treat it like a regular window for targeting things.04:03
masonFor instance, I set my background with: xv -root -quit -maxpect /home/mason/Pictures/middle-earth.jpg04:03
fsmithredso if I understand correctly, inklr can have what he/she wants in xfce04:04
fsmithredin jessie04:04
masonIf I didn't say -root there I'd get a new, random window.04:04
gnarfacei assume that goes away with compositors.  i assume that's also why the transparency thing changed, too.04:04
inklrin xfce you need to kill the desktop process because it also overlays root window04:04
inklriirc the KDE folks started it04:04
inklranyway sorry for OT - if anyone is curious about this, i have some initial work done for it in 'compton' compositor04:05
inklri'll try to get my motor motivated fsmithred04:06
fsmithredcool04:06
fsmithredshare it on the forum and you might generate interest from someone who can help04:07
inklrkj04:07
fsmithredshare it on dng mailing list and most will say, "What's a desktop?"04:07
onefangA desktop is that bit of furniture I put my computers on top of.  B-)04:10
inklrxfce is too heavy and slow for me04:10
fsmithredsee what I mean?04:10
golinuxAnd those who do have desktops aren't much onto bells and whistles04:11
fsmithredwe have our share of kde and cinnamon users04:11
masonfsmithred, onefang: Work in progress. Makes many bad assumptions, including that we have the right kmod compiled. But to show the general idea... https://bpaste.net/show/fVLv04:11
onefangI prefer beeps and ticks over bells and whistles.04:12
golinuxSilence rules!04:12
fsmithredmason, quick look says it's good.04:18
fsmithredI could steal the first half and run it with refractainstaller04:19
onefangI'm going through mine, making sure I didn't leave any passwords and stuff laying around.04:19
masonfsmithred: I'll provide a more complete version after testing and polishing.04:19
fsmithredyeah, I can't play with it now anyway04:20
masonfsmithred: But I don't want to get stuck in the trap where a mood swing kills my efforts and I haven't shared anything, so I'll default to sharing early.04:20
fsmithredI'll be home in a couple weeks and I have disposable systems to play with04:20
fsmithredthis needs a special kernel?04:21
masonfsmithred: Well, hidden bits include my having built the right zfs kmod for the kernel I know to be there.04:22
masonfsmithred: Ideally we'd have a range of kmods available, and/or do something more intelligent with matching.04:23
masonIt also assumes that I have an elilo binary stashed away, although I could be forced to use GRUB under duress.04:23
onefanghttps://sledjhamr.org/cgit/installMinimalDevuanASCII/about/  Though I still have to double check the tarball that is the base filesystem image and commit that to.04:31
masononefang: ooh, see, there's an improvement. Never occurred to me to here-doc the chroot.04:33
masonI thought I was being clever writing a script to run in the chroot, but yours is 100% better.04:34
onefangAs a bonus, mine's tested to.  B-)04:34
masonhar04:34
masonMy original version for Ubuntu was tested.04:35
onefangI include a version of debootstrap as part of it, so it should run under most Debian based systems.  I was running it under Debian Jessie if I recall.04:36
masonUbuntu had some eponymous packages which made it distinct.04:36
masonAlso, I was working around GRUB bugs, and I'm just not willing this time around. :P04:36
onefangWell, mine does use grub2, but I'm interested in checking out elilo, if it gets into Devuan, or there's a PPA for it.04:37
masonThere will be if there's not, as I want it.04:37
masonThe thing with GRUB is that it wouldn't deal with multiple cryptdisks.04:38
onefangMy script does add a bunch of PPAs.04:38
masonThis normally wouldn't matter, but it did for mirrored ZFS.04:38
onefangI'm just using ext4.04:38
masonThat makes it easier. Plain mdadm also is relatively straightforward. GRUB notionally had code for handling multiple cryptdisks, but in fact it was buggy and would generate syntactically incorrect config, which it'd then choke on.04:39
masonI think I sent a patch for that part, although I never actually tested that it was unlocking all available cryptdisks.04:40
onefangThen avoiding grub seems reasonable.04:40
masonWe'll be packaging elilo ourselves, as it's been dropped in Debian.04:40
masonAlso, after a quick pass a week ago, I didn't see how to get GRUB to load a kernel and initrd both sitting in an ESP.04:40
onefangWhat are the advantages of elilo.  Is it similar to lilo?04:40
masonSimpler.04:41
onefangDoes it need a separate boot partition near the beginning of the disk like lilo did?04:41
masononefang: Here's the entirety of the config I need to boot into my kernel and point at an initramfs that has zfs-initramfs included: https://bpaste.net/show/WNTS04:41
masonWell, elilo lives in your ESP, and if you're booting UEFI you've got one.04:42
onefangThat was gonna be my next question.  Does it support UEFI and legacy BIOS?04:42
masonNo, just UEFI. You need plain ol' lilo for legacy.04:43
masonWhoops, forgot the -av for rsync'ing directories. Cough.04:44
masonOh, and I have it happening inside the chroot, which is wrong. Sigh.04:45
onefangThis is why I tested my script on my test box, to find out what I screwed up, before I tried it on my remote server.  B-)04:46
masonDoing it to my laptop here. Poor thing.04:47
masonWell, time to reboot it and see if it is anything close to a working system.04:47
onefangLunch time.04:48
masonWOW.04:48
* onefang wanders into the kitchen to fire up the oven.04:48
masonFirst time and it worked.04:48
masonEnjoy04:48
onefangCool.04:48
masonOoh, forgot to enable to ZFS automounting scripting. But that's a minor detail. I'm booted into a ZFS root. \o/04:49
masonAnd, locales... Hrm.04:50
masonBut anyway.04:50
fsmithredLatest rumor here is that the power will go off in a few minutes. Gonna shut down for now.04:54
masonkk, hope it comes back if it goes out04:54
gnarfacegood luck, fsmithred04:54
furrywolffun, you're in central ca?  it's been out here in northern ca since mignight.04:55
onefangMy script handles locales.04:57
gnarfacegone...04:58
masononefang: The principal thing I want to steal from your script is the cleaner chroot handling, but I'll look for other bits I'm missing too.05:16
masonI feel like I'm missing some packages. Do you know what you get if you don't use mininstall?05:16
onefangNot off the top of my head.05:17
onefangI went with --variant=minbase to get the absolute bare minimum, than added the stuff I needed.05:17
masonMy invocation of debootstrap isn't getting me less, man, etc. There was an ubuntu-minimal package that probably has an equivalent I should find.05:18
onefangYeah, less and man are things I apt install later in the script.05:18
onefang# Install other stuff that every one needs.05:18
masonhrm, I'm getting bzip2 already05:19
masonI'm missing several of those. I'll tell you if I find a minimal system. Probably worth looking at the base system tasksel list.05:20
golinuxmason: Most power in northern Cali is expected to go out for days.05:21
masononefang: Hm, maybe we both want to move to "tasksel --task-packages standard"05:21
masongolinux: Yeah, from the wildfires. Dire stuff really.05:21
onefangBasically I'm debootstrapping minbase plus a few extras, to get absolutely bare minimum, disabling recommends, then apt installing the stuff I really need.05:22
onefangBRB05:22
golinuxPoorly maintained infrastructure05:22
masononefang: Check out tasksel. I think it'll help make us more uniform with debian-installer.05:22
masononefang: e.g., tasksel --task-packages laptop | apt install --yes05:24
masononefang: Last nit for now, I note your referring to /bin/bash, but remember that the system shell is really dash.05:26
onefangI'm happy with my minimal install on both desktop and server.  Though later I installed things like science-all and multimedia-all.05:26
onefangInstalled those things on the desktop I meant.05:27
masononefang: I like your --include syntax on debootstrap too. Haven't seen that before.05:27
onefang#!/bin/bash is habit.  lol05:27
inklrdid anyone try to make a gui to .asoundrc?05:51
gnarfacei dunno but that's a neat idea05:51
masonIt'd be useful.05:51
gnarfaceit would be super hard05:51
furrywolfheh.  I fucking have code in alsa-lib and I still can't figure out the rc files for it.05:52
masonEh, if you kept data separate and treated it as a compile target, it might not be so bad.05:52
inklrgnarface: i think with limited scope it could be helpful, like showing a list of available cards and setting the default, for e.g.05:53
furrywolfbbl05:53
inklror it could be an incremental project, just starting with default card selection05:53
inklri was surprised to see my android phone uses alsa05:53
onefangHmm, one thing I would change in my script is that it uses apt-get, I switched to using apt since then, the script could to.06:10
masonI just found that Intel's TearFree works like magic on my laptop.06:14
gnarfaceintel has really stepped up their driver game, it is true06:16
masonAlright, it's past pumpkin time for me. o/06:19
onefangG'night.06:19
Evilhamin case anyone wonders: a misbehaving mirror has been removed from the deb.devuan.org round robin, it can take a bit to be propagated10:42
Evilham(and devuan.ipacct.com is down, but it's not in the RR, so if you use that mirror, switch to another one for the time being)10:42
onefangSo is that one or two mirrors you are talking about?10:45
Evilhamtwo, one in the Round Robin and one regular mirror10:49
EvilhamI mostly just care about mirrors in the RR :-)10:49
Evilhamthose are the ones that break things for most people10:50
onefangMy checker script only sees that devuan.ipacct.com is down, and that mirror.devuan.de isn't responding to HTTPS, though it says it does.11:07
Evilhambecause your checker script misses a whole class of issues :-p11:14
Evilham# > curl -H 'Host: deb.devuan.org' 'http://[2001:590:3803::31:151]/merged/dists/beowulf/Release'11:14
onefangAh, IPv6, I don't have that at home.11:15
Evilham:-)11:15
r3bootAnother option is to use check_http from monitoring-plugins11:15
Evilhamr3boot: it's fine :-D monitoring is working quite well atm11:16
r3bootokok :)11:16
EvilhamI mean, the sucky factor atm is that action depends on 1 human who does a thousand other things :-)11:16
Evilhambut hopefully that'll be addressed at some point11:17
Evilhambut monitoring is doing its job :-p11:17
onefangYep, when I pull my finger out yet again and get my checker script to actually produce reports.11:17
onefangAnd run it on my server that DOES have IPv6.  B-)11:17
r3bootEvilham: ghe, the age-old IT story.. GL!11:37
TwoTallUbuntu doesn't have a iso to dvd gui installed by default; I found brasero and was able to create the live DVD. And, I have the install pages, so I am good. I'll let you know how the install goes, now that I figured out how to make a dvd.16:56
golinuxTwoTall: Xfburn is very good also.  Native to Xfce obviously.  Good luck with your install!16:58
sixwheeledbeastBrasero was in Ubuntu by default unless you have a minimal install or the like17:35
sixwheeledbeastStartup disk creator should be able to do it too IIRC.17:36
TwoTallFresh install of 18.04.3 did not have an option to burn when right clicking on iso. Thats much I can confirm.17:38
sixwheeledbeastbut that doesn't mean there isn't a package installed.17:39
TwoTallSo I needed to use dd if of or brasero which I found online by chance.17:39
sixwheeledbeastusb-cretor-gtk17:39
sixwheeledbeastcreator17:39
TwoTallMy reason for mentioning wasn't to debate whether it was there or not;  it was to make your install go smoothy if the new user can not find a solution.17:40
TwoTallit was a request to add the dd command line or mention an app17:41
TwoTallwithin the instructions17:41
sixwheeledbeastI wasn't debating just trying to help. Brasero was the default CD tool for Ubuntu and they have also had usb-creator since xenial.17:42
TwoTallI just installed it; hated systemd, and really didn't want anything to do with it after that.17:42
masononefang: So, here's something. Using a here-doc for a chroot seems to inhibit keyboard interactions.17:44
masonIt's unfortunate, as I really liked the cleanliness of the idea.17:45
Walexmason: 'isatty' 'expect'/'screen'/'ptyget'17:48
Walexmason: https://jdebp.eu/Softwares/djbwares/bernstein-ptyget.html17:49
masonWalex: Nifty.17:51
masonWalex: But I think it might be simpler to go back to my old method, which was to populate a script and run that in the chroot.17:51
masonWalex: But that is indeed nifty and I'll remember it.17:51
]BFG[will we have systemD implemented with the halloween version?19:43
]BFG[Laughs Out Loud19:43
KjetilSystemE.. far superior19:46
_plasmaHow active is Devuan development? Are there plans to target Debian bullseye?20:20
_plasmaI wish to escape systemd20:20
_plasmaalso do the proprietary nvidia drivers install okay, from their tgz?20:21
buZz_plasma: i installed them from apt20:25
buZzworks fine20:25
buZzbeowulf or ascii-backports comes with 418.7420:25
_plasmaAh, ironically even on Debian I haven't had any luck witht eh nvidia drivers in apt. I've tried a few times  , and it works best for me with the tgz20:25
golinux_plasma:  Chimaera will be our fork of Bullseye.20:26
_plasmaI put ascii on a vm20:26
_plasmao nice20:26
_plasmaso it's an active project20:26
buZzthe steps from https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers work fine20:26
_plasmaah k, thanks,20:26
golinuxWe are working on a point release of ASCII then shortly there after, Beowulf will be released (hopefully)20:27
fsmithredyeah, I think beowulf will come together quickly20:27
_plasmais there a list of all the systemd stuff that devuan has replaced with alternatives? And what those alternatives are20:28
buZzbeowulf already works quite decently20:28
fsmithred_plasma, most of the alternatives have the same package name but have +devuan in the version20:28
_plasmao neat20:29
_plasmaI'll browse with dpkg20:29
buZzthere20:29
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep devuan20:29
buZzthere's also https://pkginfo.devuan.org/20:29
buZzhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=devuan&release=ascii20:29
buZz:)20:29
_plasmathat's quite a lot of customization20:30
_plasmais beowulf stable enough to use for daily use? I'll try it in a vm first20:31
fsmithredyeah, I think so20:31
buZzi run it on my workstation and laptop20:31
_plasmanice20:31
_plasmado I download ascii and do a dist upgrade via apt? or is there a dedicated devuan-live for beowulf already?20:32
fsmithredI did a default ascii desktop install a few days ago and upgraded to beowulf.20:32
fsmithredit was smooth and easy20:32
_plasmanice20:32
_plasmaI shall do that20:32
_plasmaI've been going down the rabbit hole of researching systemd and its devs20:32
fsmithredafter you reboot into the new system, you might want to install libelogind0 to replace libsystemd020:33
fsmithredright now that's not happening automatically20:33
_plasmaI'll make a note20:33
fsmithredand you might need to use aptitude to do it20:33
buZzi distupgraded from a ascii system with >5000 pkg installed20:33
buZzit wasnt without issues , but worked in the end :)20:33
_plasmacan I make a recommendation to include a custom version of gtk3, which includes a patch that undoes the gnome devs' removal of the typeahead feature? e.g. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gtk3-typeahead/20:34
_plasmamore info: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/33x4wk/gnomegtk_316_file_chooser_typeahead/20:34
golinuxYou must know that the machine is smarter than you.  ;)20:36
buZz4 years ago?20:36
_plasmawith like four years of comments almost, in the linked bug20:37
Evilham_plasma: I hate that feature20:37
_plasmasame. What's weird though is I Didn't even get that behavior until I ugpraded something recently20:37
EvilhamPretty much everyone I know hates it20:37
_plasmaI use thunar as my file browser, but some use the gtk file picker20:37
buZzi use bash in xterm as file browser20:37
_plasmaI think perhaps ubuntu has a custom version: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/181881920:38
_plasmawhen I go to save a file in waterfox or open one in gvim, I get that stupid gtk file chooser20:38
EvilhambuZz: sometimes one has to use things that use gtk, and thos dialogues do pop in20:38
buZzcant say i've ever noticed it20:38
_plasmaI'm a very heavy keyboard user20:39
buZzyet use gvim instead of vim? :P20:39
_plasmaBuZz sometimes ya20:45
_plasmausually vim, but gvim makes it easier to do demos and stuff when presenting20:45
_plasmamore easily change font size, colorschemes20:45
buZzyour xterm doesnt allow to change font size?20:48
_plasmaI used urxvt, which didn't actually20:48
_plasmanow I use kitty, which is quite nice and does20:48
_plasmaI should also learn the command, but sometimes I need to copy something into only one clipboard (the X buffer or the actual system clipboard), and gvim makes that easier with its edit->copy menu20:49
_plasmano real reason then, just a habit20:49
_plasmabut other apps I can't avoid the gtk file chooser dialog. Waterfox, krita, Telegram I think20:50

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