golinux | afk | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
tba | Ok, I'll check that one. | 00:01 |
tba | What are bannedpackages? I don't believe exim is listed there. | 00:02 |
golinux | It's not | 00:40 |
systemdlete3 | tried to get help at #mate, but no reply there. I get tooltip from the calendar app in mate when I rotate the screen (which is done with a custom button linked to a script). It doesn't go away even if I hover the pointer over tooltip or the calendar icon. | 08:35 |
systemdlete3 | any ideas why this happens? | 08:35 |
systemdlete3 | this is a T101A ASUS 2-in-one | 08:35 |
systemdlete3 | I keep losing this connection, so beware | 08:36 |
systemdlete3 | devuan ascii running mate desktop | 08:37 |
systemdlete3 | I didn't observe this with cinnamon | 08:37 |
systemdlete3 | I switched to mate because the cinnamon power applet didn't update the power level | 08:38 |
systemdlete2 | ugh. Now the tooltip dismisses when I hover over it -- wtf | 08:40 |
systemdlete2 | but why does the tooltip appear at all, since I don't go near it? | 08:41 |
systemdlete2 | anyone had issues with aplay erroring with buffer underrun? | 11:04 |
systemdlete2 | I found that I had to blacklist some modules to get aplay to do anything on ascii running on my ASUS transformer T101A | 11:05 |
TwistedFate | btw does anyone here use jack audio server? | 11:07 |
TwistedFate | i wanna route my sound to/from 2 soundcards | 11:07 |
TwistedFate | got 1 onboard and 1 from my gpu | 11:08 |
debdog | TwistedFate: http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-ajbridge-doc/quickguide.html | 11:14 |
debdog | but then, IIRC, no RT possible anymore | 11:15 |
flimpy | heh idk if rm -rf /etc/systemd was a good idea | 11:50 |
flimpy | but i wanted to see what happens | 11:50 |
systemdlete | got my sound problem fixed. | 12:10 |
systemdlete | has anyone tested/used rescue mode on the install disk? I had a problem getting it to work. | 12:10 |
Shentino | flimpy that's actually an interesting experiment considering devuan's mission | 12:12 |
flimpy | mhm ... /etc/init.d/lightdm restart isn't showing a login screen on virtual console 7, as it should | 12:14 |
flimpy | no errors in Xorg.0.log or messages though | 12:14 |
* flimpy scratches head | 12:14 | |
flimpy | i can startx as root, so it looks like just lightdm has problems.. apt reinstalling it didn't fix. | 12:49 |
flimpy | posisbly some stuff with the user sessions and daemons | 12:49 |
flimpy | Shentino: which display manager would you suggest as an alternative to lightdm? | 12:50 |
flimpy | simpler is better | 12:50 |
debdog | <flimpy> [...]on virtual console 7, as it should -- it's using the console it got started from theses days. usually tty1 | 12:56 |
flimpy | yes startx as root starts in the console i started it in, which is cool | 12:56 |
flimpy | but lightdm should be showing up in 7 | 12:56 |
debdog | why? | 12:56 |
flimpy | that's where it always restarts in | 12:57 |
flimpy | try /etc/init.d/lightdm restart | 12:57 |
* debdog boots the ole laptot whiich has lightdm installed.... | 12:58 | |
flimpy | i'll check out xdm, wdm and ldxm i guess | 12:59 |
flimpy | if there's a better place for non-support chat, please open it to unregistered users | 13:00 |
DonkeyHotei | #debianfork is open | 13:01 |
flimpy | xdm runs fine but looks like i'd need to customize it for my windowmanager | 13:05 |
debdog | ok, lightdm actually is running on tty here. did not know that, I was certain it'd run on tty1, too | 13:06 |
debdog | s/tty/tty7/ | 13:06 |
flimpy | mhm if i ps aux |grep xorg i see xorg invoked with vt07 and -novtswitch | 13:07 |
flimpy | but i'm not getting any xinitrc love or fluxbox after logging in | 13:07 |
flimpy | i'm guessing this is a user perms problem | 13:08 |
flimpy | export DISPLAY=":0" && xfwm4 gets me xfce4 desktop | 13:11 |
mcr1 | packages.devuan.org IPv6 seems not to answer. | 13:40 |
mcr1 | dooku-[~](2.4.1) mcr 10003 %host packages.devuan.org | 13:40 |
mcr1 | packages.devuan.org has address 46.105.191.77 | 13:40 |
mcr1 | packages.devuan.org has IPv6 address 2001:41d0:8:2c55::a2 | 13:40 |
mcr1 | these are the IPs that I get. I would preferrably be on the ripe-nat64 network, but 2001:41d0:8:2c55::a2 does not seem to answer. | 13:41 |
mcr1 | I wonder who I can tell this too... | 13:41 |
flimpy | i get 46.105.191.77 as well mcr1 | 14:28 |
mcr1 | flimpy, the IPv4 works fine. The IPv6 is broken. | 14:53 |
mcr1 | it just hangs. | 14:53 |
flimpy | thanks for explaining | 14:53 |
flimpy | i disable ipv6 cause it's a new thing and i'm old | 14:53 |
mcr1 | maybe you should just stop using the Internet if you are too old to figure out IPv6. | 14:54 |
mcr1 | :-) | 14:54 |
mcr1 | [cause, I'll bet I'm older than you] | 14:54 |
flimpy | i don't need to enable it on my local network | 14:54 |
mcr1 | I only run it on my local network. | 14:54 |
flimpy | watfer | 14:54 |
mcr1 | Or, I only run IPv6 on my local network :-) | 14:54 |
flimpy | you must have a lot of devices | 14:55 |
mcr1 | I just don't like living in the past, and I like publically accessible addresses. | 15:19 |
mcr1 | NAT44 is for windows95 machines. | 15:19 |
mcr1 | real computers can live on the Internet just fine. | 15:19 |
Evilham | IPv6 is what, 27 by noe? | 15:40 |
Evilham | IPv6 only networks are perfectly viable these days | 15:41 |
Evilham | Packages.devuan.org is a very weird thing and nobody has ever explained its ipv6 oddity, my guess is that its a different host and nobody has looked into it enough | 15:42 |
Evilham | Also because people shpuld be using deb.devuan.org instead | 15:43 |
systemdlete2 | sound works in straight alsa, such as aplay. However, I cannot get firefox-esr to do sound. | 15:45 |
systemdlete2 | well, heck. Opera gets sound fine... | 15:58 |
systemdlete2 | So... it's firefox-specific. | 15:59 |
golinux | FF now has a hard dependency on pulseaudio | 16:02 |
golinux | depending on which version you have, The ESR on jessie doesn't need it but PA is completely entwined in beowulf. | 16:03 |
systemdlete2 | I am aware of the problem; it has been going on for years. I mean, like 20 years. | 16:15 |
systemdlete2 | In the past, though, apulse would usually work around it. | 16:15 |
systemdlete2 | So in Beowulf, it will be f'd beyond hope? | 16:16 |
golinux | apulse is still there | 16:16 |
golinux | but Xfce now also depends on PA | 16:16 |
systemdlete2 | does it work in beowulf for firefox? | 16:16 |
systemdlete2 | chromium has sound here | 16:17 |
golinux | I'm still on jessie except for testing | 16:17 |
golinux | Haven't done much sound on beowulf. In fact sound is broken on my version of virtualbox | 16:18 |
systemdlete2 | cheese and crackers! How far down the garden path will they go with all this nonsense from u-know-hoo? | 16:18 |
golinux | I really need to downgrade to a version that works | 16:18 |
golinux | infinitely | 16:18 |
systemdlete2 | yes. seems that way | 16:18 |
golinux | We need more elves in the workshop to tear it out. | 16:18 |
systemdlete2 | I said years ago, when this calamity struck, that the open source world should fork THEIR work and allow his eminence and his acolytes to modify a branch, but not the trunk work | 16:20 |
golinux | Currently we have our hands full with basic system function so audio is not high on the list | 16:20 |
systemdlete2 | np. I have a workaround: Chromium or opera | 16:20 |
r3boot | actually, in our hackerspace, we finally got synced audio to work across multiple rooms, and that's all thanks to PA, which just worked(tm), while both rtp and jack based setups had all kinds of sync and latency issues | 16:21 |
golinux | I hear it does have it's purposes but it should be an option not mandatory. | 16:22 |
systemdlete2 | r3boot: that's wonderful. I've used PA in the past to run sound from a machine in a hot bedroom to my living room. PA has its uses. But it should not be enforced, it shouldn't be brazed on to the system. | 16:22 |
golinux | And this is not the place to discuss that ;) | 16:22 |
systemdlete2 | yes | 16:22 |
* systemdlete2 rolls eyes | 16:22 | |
systemdlete2 | well, I'm happy I have sound working. Good night! | 16:23 |
golinux | :D | 16:23 |
helle | I am having an interestng issue with testing, there is a breakage, because in the repos libmount1:amd64 and libmount1:i386 do not have the same version | 16:37 |
helle | yeah, this is even the case in unstable it seems | 16:45 |
helle | and this breaks upgrades HARD as those two need to be in sync for any system using multiarch | 16:45 |
Lipps | i have multiarch running here and wonder what to do or not do | 16:47 |
Lipps | everything is working 4 me | 16:47 |
helle | I mean apt warns the hell out of you before doing anything like this | 16:48 |
helle | as libmount1 i386 and amd64 explicitly have breaks: any version not identical to it on the other arch | 16:48 |
helle | I mean I guess I can build it from source, but this just really needs to be rapidly pushed to repo as it is a total pain | 16:49 |
helle | I wonder if it is a build system being slow or there being a repo sync issue | 16:51 |
helle | is there a way to see the queue ? | 16:54 |
helle | But I am stuck with a very in between state system right now due to this | 16:56 |
r3boot | helle: you can roll-back your upgrade until it is fixed ofc | 16:57 |
r3boot | (which is a manual action btw, but it's possible to get a working system back if you have the previous packages) | 16:58 |
TwoTall | htop gives Pulseaudio a NICE level of -11 | 17:12 |
helle | Do I need to write a program that makes sure all repository uploads are staged in such a way that they don't leave version desyncs for more then a few minutes or what.... there are currently several in testing | 17:14 |
helle | aaah, the other one I found so far is a weirder one, blame Debian in part for that one | 17:19 |
Lipps | hmm no every pic upload is getting interrupted | 17:22 |
helle | but yeah, there is an actual issue around util-linux source and elogind at the very least where the i386 and amd64 versions need to be version synced tightly, but currently aren't | 17:23 |
* helle is going to see if she can write a little script to at least detect all of these | 17:26 | |
Lipps | what's an anon image hoster not-imgur | 17:31 |
Shentino | flimpy: either xdm or slim | 18:00 |
Lipps | retard me finally got vlc to adopt Adwaita-Dark theme. one annoyance less in my life | 19:56 |
armin | :) | 19:57 |
Lipps | other people probably solve 'problems' with their furniture arrangement | 20:09 |
Lipps | armin you know any folks who are knowledgable about glx and compositing? | 21:12 |
CrystalMath | hello, devuan people! i have a question | 21:22 |
CrystalMath | is it okay to apply and maintain a package into devuan, that is not in debian, and has nothing to do with systemd? | 21:24 |
CrystalMath | i'm saying this because i'm wondering if right now, devuan is a true fork, or still just a "patch" to debian to remove systemd? | 21:25 |
CrystalMath | personally, i would love to maintain debian packages... but i don't like the debian project | 21:25 |
CrystalMath | i don't want to work with the debian project as i consider them hostile | 21:25 |
gnarface | CrystalMath: i don't think it has gotten to the point where they're giving up on the idea of patching debian... yet. that has been discussed as a distinct possibility however, but for now I think you would want to try to get your package into Debian if possible | 21:48 |
CrystalMath | gnarface: hmm... i will then maintain my own repository | 21:48 |
gnarface | people have been doing that | 21:48 |
CrystalMath | gnarface: i refuse to be affiliated with debian | 21:48 |
CrystalMath | but i don't want to give up on the technical benefits of debian | 21:48 |
CrystalMath | i just hate the debian community | 21:48 |
gnarface | and i think there's also a proposed-updates repo for unofficial devuan stuff not in debian yet.... | 21:48 |
CrystalMath | and this is why: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00006.html | 21:49 |
gnarface | this might be a better question for the mailing list, or #devuan-dev | 21:49 |
CrystalMath | hmm, idk, devuan-dev is "strictly technical stuff" | 21:49 |
CrystalMath | my reason for not joining debian is community-related | 21:50 |
CrystalMath | i have 2 packages i wanted to add to debian | 21:50 |
CrystalMath | but i opted not to | 21:50 |
gnarface | what are they? | 21:50 |
CrystalMath | zyn-fusion, a version of zynaddsubfx with the new interface that was formerly proprietary | 21:51 |
CrystalMath | (and is now GPL free software) | 21:51 |
CrystalMath | soon i may also add surge... but that's not the other thing i was going to add, unfortunately i forgot, let me find it | 21:52 |
CrystalMath | i wanted to add premake5 too | 21:53 |
CrystalMath | (to sid) | 21:53 |
CrystalMath | and there's more but i forgot | 21:53 |
gnarface | well, i have no official say one way or another | 21:54 |
CrystalMath | the thing is, because of how debian behaved to Norbert Preining, i don't think they deserve my help | 21:54 |
gnarface | i have my own personal issues with a number of Debian staff that are much more childish than these concerns | 21:55 |
gnarface | but i'm not a member of Devuan staff either | 21:55 |
gnarface | so i can't really answer your question officially | 21:55 |
CrystalMath | the debian anti-harassment team just attacks people without providing a reason... as a bystander i am shocked that anyone is being attacked without a publicly discussed reason behind it | 21:55 |
gnarface | one way or another, you want to talk to one of the people on this list: https://devuan.org/os/team/ | 21:55 |
CrystalMath | yeah i should join the mailing list | 21:55 |
gnarface | i recommend the mailing list | 21:55 |
CrystalMath | and leave the debian one | 21:55 |
gnarface | some of them are in here, and #devuan-arm and #devuan-dev, but the mailing list will be more certain to get you a response probably | 21:56 |
gnarface | i don't think you're the only person thinking along these lines but i do think for now they're putting you all in a holding pattern | 21:56 |
gnarface | there's some proposed-additions repo and several private repos and everyone is just waiting to see if Debian escalates after the next release or de-escalates | 21:57 |
gnarface | time will tell | 21:57 |
gnarface | but i have heard there are also Devuan sympathizers within their ranks | 21:57 |
CrystalMath | yes... but not all anti-systemd people are also anti-censorship | 21:58 |
CrystalMath | a good example is Ian Jackson | 21:59 |
CrystalMath | who famously resigned from debian, over their adoption of systemd; but repeatedly and violently kicked people out for things they said with no explanation; and now signed a statement against Richard Stallman | 21:59 |
Pr0metheus | but most big companies are now inside linux so I don't think there is much significant you can do | 22:01 |
CrystalMath | "inside linux" is not what i'm talking about | 22:01 |
CrystalMath | debian and ubuntu were never mutually exclusive | 22:02 |
CrystalMath | and ubuntu has always been a for-profit thing, while debian was run by volunteers | 22:02 |
CrystalMath | either way, my ability to volunteer is not threatened by big companies | 22:02 |
Pr0metheus | but starting from the kernel and going upwards you can see that everything is going under control | 22:03 |
CrystalMath | nor would debian be harmed in any way, by doing work for free and NOT banning people over nonsense | 22:03 |
CrystalMath | note that i personally was never banned from debian or any IRC channel; i'm acting out of pure principle and zero self-interest | 22:03 |
CrystalMath | Pr0metheus: we do not have to submit to that control | 22:04 |
CrystalMath | we're not paid to | 22:04 |
CrystalMath | i have, in total, earned a total of $0.00 from programming, after even rejecting offers and donations, and i intend to keep it that way | 22:05 |
CrystalMath | the companies cannot control what i do | 22:05 |
Pr0metheus | yeap but we stand no chance, it's like when an executive of Xiaomi was asked how he is gonna challenge the other big companies and he said I can have two times more programmers:P | 22:05 |
CrystalMath | this is free software, which by itself cannot be an asset | 22:06 |
CrystalMath | Pr0metheus: either way, lots of people make great code, even without a code of conduct; or even with a code of conduct that is not strict, and people are not kicked out randomly | 22:08 |
Pr0metheus | yes I agree with you, the whole situation though, in my opinion, is inevitable | 22:08 |
CrystalMath | Pr0metheus: what is inevitable? | 22:09 |
Pr0metheus | the control over what can others say or should do | 22:09 |
CrystalMath | i definitely disagree, as we have enough people to make this work | 22:10 |
Pr0metheus | I hope you are right | 22:10 |
CrystalMath | i'm not trying to restrict what people companies want or don't want to do business with | 22:12 |
CrystalMath | i'm trying to segregate companies and volunteers, so that volunteers have their own freedom | 22:12 |
CrystalMath | volunteers probably won't have any edge over the companies, but will still be able to work on their own stuff, as they did now | 22:13 |
DonkeyHotei | volunteers are still people, and people still beat each other over the head with frying pans | 22:13 |
CrystalMath | if you look at it, it's being 1% vs. 99% proprietary software (as it was in the 2000s) and being 1% vs. 50% "open source" companies vs 49% proprietary software | 22:13 |
CrystalMath | actually a better position than before | 22:14 |
CrystalMath | they can fork from us, but we can also fork from them | 22:14 |
CrystalMath | it could even be a mutual benefit | 22:14 |
CrystalMath | but of course, they will have to live with forking code written by people who sometimes say nasty things | 22:14 |
CrystalMath | or waste time rewriting it | 22:14 |
CrystalMath | they don't have to live with their own employees saying nasty things | 22:15 |
CrystalMath | DonkeyHotei: regarding that, i have faith that meritocracy brings about better software than control ever could | 22:17 |
DonkeyHotei | meritocracy is a myth | 22:19 |
CrystalMath | i disagree | 22:19 |
CrystalMath | ultimately, something always wins out, you can call it "privilege", but you can't call it unfair | 22:21 |
CrystalMath | i believe that if people use that privilege to the benefit of many, then that's a really nice thing to do | 22:21 |
CrystalMath | but i do not wish to eliminate it | 22:21 |
CrystalMath | just as evolution did not create humans by protecting the weak | 22:21 |
DonkeyHotei | social darwinism is not helpful | 22:22 |
gnarface | alright | 22:22 |
CrystalMath | it's quite helpful, although hard to achieve, really | 22:22 |
gnarface | nobody disagrees with you, CrystalMath. take it to #debianfork though, this is starting to turn into a rant | 22:22 |
CrystalMath | right, we went off topic | 22:22 |
golinux | Can you all please take this to #debianfork? OT for this channel | 22:22 |
CrystalMath | definitely, yes | 22:23 |
gnarface | CrystalMath: just put your packages together and ready them for show&tell. that's what the devuan developers will tell you to do first. | 22:23 |
golinux | I was actually doing work for devuan so wasn't babysitting here. | 22:23 |
golinux | Yes CrystalMath . . . put packages in git and see what users think of them | 22:24 |
FleaFart | Hello World! | 22:24 |
gnarface | hello FleaFart | 22:25 |
FleaFart | I am TooTall on a different laptop | 22:25 |
golinux | I can't bring myself to call you that. | 22:26 |
FleaFart | Still haven't issues with sudo ... | 22:26 |
FleaFart | most just say Flea | 22:26 |
FleaFart | LOL | 22:26 |
FleaFart | Most of the /nicks are already takin | 22:26 |
gnarface | sudo is not very complicated, but the man page is. i recommend reading it twice. | 22:27 |
gnarface | the second half doesn't make sense without the first half, but the first half only makes sense on the second read through | 22:27 |
golinux | I can't help you with sudo. Dumped that habit more than a decade ago | 22:27 |
FleaFart | So why doesn't sudo accept my sysadmin root password; can I adapt this so that it works with $ sudo get-install htop | 22:27 |
golinux | Because it needs your user PW | 22:28 |
gnarface | the only point of sudo is so that non-root users don't have to remember the root password | 22:28 |
FleaFart | oh, and I have to give my user chown to root | 22:28 |
gnarface | if you can remember your own root password and you don't have other users, it is arguable that you don't need sudo | 22:28 |
gnarface | making sudo require the root password is... silly | 22:29 |
gnarface | like bordering on pointless | 22:29 |
FleaFart | got it | 22:29 |
golinux | No just normal user perms | 22:29 |
gnarface | i'm not saying it won't work, but that might be why it has gone untested :) | 22:29 |
FleaFart | understood | 22:29 |
FleaFart | Q: when in user $ how do I run one line of command in root mode? | 22:30 |
FleaFart | using su - | 22:30 |
gnarface | you can do that with su | 22:30 |
gnarface | no, you can do it with su if you invoke it a different way | 22:30 |
gnarface | check the su man page but i think you want -c | 22:30 |
FleaFart | ok | 22:31 |
FleaFart | thanks | 22:31 |
gnarface | np | 22:31 |
FleaFart | old habits die hard | 22:31 |
gnarface | indeed, i know | 22:31 |
Pr0metheus | can anyone suggest a profiler that works:) for shared libraries | 23:38 |
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