| agris | How do I upgrade from ASCII to Beowulf? | 08:58 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | pretty much just change all the instances of "ascii" to "beowulf" in your sources.list, then run "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" | 08:59 |
| gnarface | make sure you're up-to-date in ascii first | 08:59 |
| gnarface | and i recommend a full backup | 09:00 |
| gnarface | because beowulf isn't done yet and i don't know what will happen to you lol | 09:00 |
| gnarface | are you sure you really want to run beowulf? you can get a updated kernel from ascii-backports instead, and more safely | 09:00 |
| agris | yes, it's a container so kernel changes are irrelevant | 09:03 |
| gnarface | ah | 09:04 |
| gnarface | well have fun | 09:04 |
| gnarface | :) | 09:04 |
| agris | LXC uses the hypervisor's kernel | 09:04 |
| agris | I need a somewhat recent version of openrc | 09:04 |
| agris | thanks | 09:04 |
| agris | gnarface, speaking of openrc, I never got around to writing the mailing list | 09:05 |
| agris | I really should | 09:05 |
| agris | I would like to see if Devuan would be OK moving into using OpenRC in the main distro with OpenRC' sysv compatibility, among other options | 09:06 |
| agris | Is Devuan really set on SysV or is it just anti-systemd? | 09:06 |
| gnarface | well, it's also anti-disruption | 09:06 |
| gnarface | changing default inits is a disruptive change | 09:07 |
| gnarface | but adding support for additional inits is not | 09:07 |
| gnarface | and they already did add openrc as an option after all | 09:07 |
| agris | ok well in that case that's good cause https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/blob/master/init-guide.md | 09:07 |
| gnarface | ... and i thought it already is the sysv compatibility setup, isn't it? | 09:08 |
| gnarface | most people have been trying to undo that i thought... | 09:08 |
| agris | no gnarface, the current OpenRC support is extremely half-assed | 09:08 |
| agris | gnarface, no, we have not been undoing sysv support, a lot of the people running openrc in Devuan have been having to redo the way the sysinit runlevel does things with openrc | 09:09 |
| agris | because currently it's some kind of hodgepodge mixture of both sysv and openrc that takes all the cons of both sides with none of the pros and breaks a lot | 09:09 |
| agris | OpenRC reads sysv scripts just fine, but when the system is KERNEL -> sysV -> openrc -> mixture is causes weird issues | 09:11 |
| agris | it needs to be KERNEL -> openrc -> mixture | 09:11 |
| agris | if openrc is in fact installed | 09:11 |
| agris | correct me if i'm wrong but I can't see the reasoning for having the first runlevel be sysv and then passing off to openrc | 09:11 |
| gnarface | i'm sure debian had a excuse for setting it up that way | 09:13 |
| agris | that's the problem | 09:14 |
| gnarface | it had to do with work that needed to be done on openrc, if i recall | 09:14 |
| agris | Debian is being stupid right now and doesn't show signs of recovering | 09:14 |
| agris | Hell, I've been writing various init scripts for packages and stuff for OpenRC on Devuan in-house anyways | 09:14 |
| agris | and I'm sure other people here have bits and peicies they'd share | 09:15 |
| agris | Debian isn't going to do it. The only thing they are going to do is remove all other options besides systemd | 09:15 |
| agris | I'd do it but I don't want to step on anyone's toes | 09:16 |
| gnarface | but last i heard, work was going forward on it | 09:16 |
| agris | because I need this anyways for MY servers and clusters so it's not like I'm just doing this for no reason or motivation | 09:16 |
| gnarface | with dewvuan's help | 09:16 |
| gnarface | devuan's | 09:16 |
| agris | where? not on the mailinglist | 09:17 |
| jaromil | I am not 100% sure I have seen the same issue, or if my information is actual. but then I also think there is room for improvement on the way openrc is packaged | 09:18 |
| agris | gnarface, you wouldn't happen to know where the work was going on was would you? | 09:25 |
| jaromil | agris: did you get my messages? | 09:26 |
| jaromil | my internet has disconnected. IRC is so frustrating on shaky connections... | 09:27 |
| gnarface | agris: i don't remember, sorry | 09:27 |
| agris | jaromil, no. I'm also available on XMPP which handles flaky connections very well | 09:27 |
| jaromil | ok let me repost | 09:27 |
| jaromil | I am not 100% sure I have seen the same issue, or if my information is actual. but then I also think there is room for improvement on the way openrc is packaged | 09:27 |
| jaromil | once upon a time I was from the "fork openrc" party because the debian packaging is wrong | 09:27 |
| jaromil | there is also an issue with the expert install: choosing openrc doesn't removes sysv-rc, yet openrc doesn't depends from it | 09:27 |
| jaromil | agris: if you can provide accurate insights and/or perhaps a path to fixes we can consider, you'd be very welcome | 09:28 |
| jaromil | I for one am a beowulf + openrc user and not completely satisfied (and I'm not a perfectionist) | 09:28 |
| jaromil | if you want to fork openrc you'll have my support. here some directions | 09:28 |
| jaromil | comunications: #devuan-dev here and mailinglist https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-dev | 09:28 |
| jaromil | get down to business: https://gitea.devuan.dev/ <- make an account and upload your package | 09:28 |
| jaromil | when forking, remember we need to keep the git history from alioth | 09:29 |
| agris | OpenRC doesn't need forking. upstream is not distro-specific or even linux specific | 09:29 |
| agris | or do you mean forking from Debian's package | 09:29 |
| jaromil | upstream not, but debian did weird things | 09:29 |
| jaromil | yes | 09:29 |
| jaromil | i mean debian's package | 09:29 |
| agris | your absolutely right about that. I'm talking to you from a Gentoo system right now and the way Debian handles openrc is wack | 09:29 |
| jaromil | we have a good relationship with upstream and in the past agreed to disagree with debian packaging | 09:29 |
| jaromil | ok then i ACK it hasn't improved | 09:30 |
| jaromil | I was involved 2 years ago | 09:30 |
| jaromil | really time to do something | 09:30 |
| jaromil | I remember having a weird short and immediately incendiary exchange with the openrc maintainer in debian at that time | 09:30 |
| agris | jaromil, do you remember the debian maintainer's reasoning for the way sysinit runlevel works? | 09:31 |
| agris | or logging | 09:31 |
| agris | or network | 09:32 |
| jaromil | long toes or so, maybe many people complained. rly time to do something, keeping close to upstream's approach should be fine. From what I remember the main problem is that while upstream engineers it so that it can co-exist with other init systems, debian makes it conflict with sysv scripts | 09:32 |
| jaromil | in devuan then we had some lengthy considerations on how it may be dangerous to fork openrc, low priority (wasn't yet in experimental install) and perhaps needing scripts to be maintained out of sysvinit | 09:33 |
| lcufer | aqsd | 09:34 |
| tarzeau | https://sources.debian.org/patches/openrc/0.40.3-1/ which of those parts are wack? | 09:35 |
| tarzeau | (just being curious) | 09:35 |
| agris | >From what I remember the main problem is that while upstream engineers it so that it can co-exist with other init systems, debian makes it conflict with sysv scripts | 09:36 |
| tarzeau | ah the debian/control file with conflicts then | 09:36 |
| agris | I'm sure there's more to it than that. break something the worked before | 09:36 |
| tarzeau | retarded, indeed | 09:36 |
| agris | I mean I would not put it past Debian, with the systemd push | 09:37 |
| agris | but still | 09:37 |
| tarzeau | systemd was the biggest mistake ever. they should've added it, but not made it be default | 09:37 |
| agris | we all know that tarzeau | 09:39 |
| tarzeau | so main problem is Conflicts: file-rc, sysv-rc from https://sources.debian.org/src/openrc/0.40.3-1/debian/control/ | 09:40 |
| tarzeau | but it was also in there https://sources.debian.org/src/openrc/0.23-1/debian/control/ with that very old version 0.23-1 | 09:41 |
| tarzeau | even with https://sources.debian.org/src/openrc/0.13.1-4/debian/control/ | 09:41 |
| tarzeau | https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/o/openrc/openrc_0.40.3-1_changelog 17 jan 2014 thomas goirand added a conflict with file-rc (not sure if he also added the other sysv-rc but maybe), let's see bugs.debian.org/734406 | 09:42 |
| jaromil | here some insights from angband https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160923.232828.2acb3cea.en.html | 09:45 |
| jaromil | that's from 2016 in a thread is half deleted from our archives do to a bug | 09:45 |
| jaromil | my plans of forking openrc back then were bounced. time wasn't ripe | 09:46 |
| jaromil | here an analysis shared by rick moen on running openrc on devuan/debian jessie (first fork) http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/openrc-conversion.html | 09:48 |
| agris | huh | 09:49 |
| jaromil | I dont find anything else useful (saving you some drama mails) will consult katolaz because he had an extensive go at openrc integration in ascii, I believe he is the one who did it at the end | 09:49 |
| jaromil | thanks for your pointers tarzeau | 09:50 |
| agris | yeah thanks | 09:50 |
| agris | I'm going to take deeper look at all of this tomorrow as it's getting really late here | 09:52 |
| agris | but thank you guys a lot for all the info | 09:52 |
| agris | btw if anyone is interested here Is a openrc-run script i've been working on for mumble-server. It's not finished yet but it was urgently needed because mumble-server w/ openrc is completely broken | 09:56 |
| agris | https://upload.nuegia.net/36313fd2-761c-424f-ac02-eb7bab29f6db/mumble-server | 09:56 |
| jaromil | cheers, rest well and lets see what we can do next | 09:56 |
| lcufer | o/ | 09:56 |
| agris | :) | 09:57 |
| agris | here's an example of the kinds of things you can do with openrc | 10:01 |
| agris | https://upload.nuegia.net/1542d36f-73c1-4ef4-afaf-9477cf95ddf3/vendorportal | 10:01 |
| agris | oh my bad wrong file | 10:01 |
| agris | here https://upload.nuegia.net/21db7728-c986-4f06-9530-1bf3ea946994/vendorportal-init | 10:01 |
| agris | there | 10:02 |
| mason | hrm hrm https://i.imgur.com/byB68uS.png | 15:23 |
| Hestben | Hi guys! | 20:24 |
| Hestben | I run Ascii on my server, but need php7.2 | 20:24 |
| Hestben | Any recommendations on the easiest way to get php7.2. Not very keen on building from source, or upgrading to beowulf just yet | 20:25 |
| specing | > need php | 20:26 |
| * specing throws Hestben through the airlock | 20:27 | |
| * Hestben whispering in the vast nothingness of space :) | 20:27 | |
| Hestben | I'm just one of those lazy persons running Nextcloud | 20:28 |
| onefang | In space, no one can hear you whisper. B-) | 20:47 |
| james1138 | In space, no one can hear you fart either. | 20:59 |
| MinceR | In space, no one can hear one hand clapping. | 21:00 |
| MinceR | In space, no one can hear a mime fall. | 21:00 |
| furrywolf | https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nigerian-astronaut-lost-in-space/ in space, there's a nigerian astronaut needing you to transfer large sums of money. | 21:03 |
| MinceR | lol | 21:04 |
| debdog | that's priceless | 21:07 |
| onefang | https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/ubuntu/php may be useful, they mention Debian oldstable (currently Stretch, which ASCII is based on), there's a link for that, but then it got too much of a rabbit hole for me, when I just wanted to give you a quick answer Hestben. | 21:08 |
| Hestben | onefang: thank you, I will look into it. | 21:22 |
| Hestben | It would be nice if Beowulf would become stable, and I could go that route instead :) | 21:23 |
| onefang | We are working on it. | 21:23 |
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