freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2019-10-20

rrqright. thanks. I didn't scroll back very far...00:00
CheesyPastriesDefinitely using the FreeBSD one and it obviously doesn't have the Devuan patches (which is silly since according to that guide systemd doesn't work with FreeBSD's compatibility so Devuan is probably the OS of choice for this)00:01
CheesyPastriesIf it had the patches it should've been aware of the different versions00:01
rrqthis: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/debootstrap00:01
CheesyPastriesIs it possible to install the Devuan version on FreeBSD? I don't know if the framework would be in place to get it00:02
gnarfacethere's the git link.  try to build it00:02
CheesyPastriesI'm reading it now00:02
gnarfacei really don't think they had to change very much but i don't know for sure00:03
rrqthe HEAD of the suites/ascii branch is the ascii version00:04
CheesyPastriesIt looks like i might be able to even run it without building it. Apparently it can run directly off the source tree according to the readme on the page00:04
gnarfaceyea it might just be scripts with little or no binaries... i seem to recall that being the case...00:04
CheesyPastriesI'll give reinstalling with this version a shot then00:06
se7enf00:20
CheesyPastriesI did a full reinstall with the Devuan debootstrap but the error persists00:52
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: paste.debian.net with the error00:52
CheesyPastriesIt complains about invalid signatures even after getting devuan-keyring and devuan-archive-keyrings added00:52
gnarfaceyou also need the debian ones probably00:52
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: i still have no new ideas about this but i want to see the exact error just as a sanity check.  you can paste it to me directly in /msg or you can use paste.debian.net00:54
CheesyPastrieshttps://paste.debian.net/1108448/00:56
CheesyPastriesNote, I'm using a really f-ed up terminal and can't copy out of it so I had to retype that line by line. It should be accurate as I'm pretty good at that sort of thing00:56
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: well... the thing about the repo being unsigned is weird.  i'd expect maybe a error about the key being invalid...00:58
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: there was an old bug at one point where you had to actually add the gpg key from the package to root's gpg keyring manually, because it wasn't checking in the right directory for it, but this isn't quite the error i'd expect from that glitch00:59
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: still, it might be worth trying anyway as a test00:59
CheesyPastriesAgreed, I'm going afk to eat for a bit. I'll be back in about an hour. Post any thoughts you have and I'll try them when I get back and update you00:59
CheesyPastriesThe help is much appreciated BTW01:00
CheesyPastriesI'm back now01:52
CheesyPastriesHow would I go about adding the repository key to the root keyring?01:53
gnarfaceapt-key add [filename]02:03
gnarfaceas root02:03
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: ^02:03
CheesyPastriesAh, I've actually already done that. and I just did an apt-key list and the keys are included02:03
gnarfacemake sure they're the right ones02:04
gnarfaceis there any chance there could be some sort of proxy issue?02:06
gnarfacehttp deep packet inspection?02:06
gnarfaceanything02:06
gnarface?02:06
gnarfacei'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas here02:07
CheesyPastriesI'll double check they are correct02:07
gnarfacethe only other thought i have is to try to make sure the signature file is actually on the repo, get it with a web browser, and check it manually with gpg02:07
gnarfacebut i don't have the commands for that off the top of my head, you'd have to check the gpg manpage02:07
CheesyPastriesThe only sort of proxy issue would be how the jail connects to the internet through the bridge connection on the device02:07
gnarfaceyea the one thought i had was just that maybe it thinks the repo isn't signed because it's not even hitting the repo, but it's getting a valid http response from something else so you get this red herring error maybe02:08
gnarfacei have a router that when upstream connection fails, it redirects all DNS requests to itself02:09
gnarfaceand then it responds with a valid http response page containing some error, but it's not a 404 page02:10
gnarfaceso some stuff (like slashdot's javascript) fetches that page and then chokes hard on the response, having no logic to distinguish a valid http response from the wrong server as anything untoward02:11
CheesyPastriesBut how did I install devuan-keyring from the repo if I'm not hitting the repo?02:12
gnarface(to add to the fun, the page on the router redirects to itself, adds some junk to the query string that slashdot's javascript just blindly copies over, and then that puts the page into a redirect loop)02:13
gnarfacehmm02:13
gnarfacethat's a good question though02:13
gnarfacei wouldnt' expect you to get a valid devuan-keyring package from your own router02:13
CheesyPastriesagreed02:13
gnarfacei would expect it from a MITM attack though maybe...02:13
gnarfaceyou double-checked the IP addresses that got resolved for you, right?02:14
gnarfacei mean, we're really running dry on ideas here02:14
CheesyPastriesCould it be related to me setting the jail to connect through the bridge0 instead of directly on an ethernet port? The rest of my jails connect through it just with the addition of VNET02:15
gnarfacei mean, as far as i know, only if it's mangling http requests somehow02:16
gnarfacethough there is precedent for that too02:16
fsmithredaptitude search ~i -F"%p# %v# %t#"02:17
gnarfacesomething to do with how amprolla serves unaltered debian packages via http redirect02:17
gnarfaceit has been a sticking point before in some corner cases02:17
fsmithredwill show which suites the packages are from02:17
gnarfacealso there was at least one or two incidents of some isp mangling https requests02:17
CheesyPastriesaptitude isn't installed02:18
fsmithredI don't know an equivalent for apt-get or apt-cache02:19
gnarface(or at least suspected of mangling https requests... in one situation it turned out to be the aforementioned 3rd party repo issue, but in the other incident i don't recall what was discovered)02:19
CheesyPastriesHow could I test if it's mangling requests?02:24
CheesyPastriesfsmithred I force installed aptitude and the results of that command was mostly blackspace02:30
gnarfacethere might be an error log somewhere02:30
gnarfaceor try adding --verbose02:30
gnarfaceor something like that02:30
gnarface(check the man pages)02:31
gnarfacesometimes it's -v or -V02:31
gnarfaceof course you could always just sniff the network traffic02:31
gnarfacelike with wireshark or tcpdump02:31
gnarfaceyou'd have to have an idea of what types of http responses it's expecting though02:32
fsmithredwhat was the part that wasn't blackspace?02:32
gnarfacemy assumption would be that if it's an accident, the response will be WILDLY wrong, like containing the entirely wrong html page from an obviously wrong server.   rather than a cleverly designed forgery02:32
CheesyPastriesfsmithred what seemed like a couple package names and stable separated out by a load of space02:34
fsmithredI don't know what to make of that02:35
CheesyPastriesgnarface It'd be so weird if it was an actual MITM. This is a non-enterprise server so it seems an unlikely target02:35
fsmithredis it possible for you to install devuan debootstrap and use that?02:35
CheesyPastriesDebootstrap was what I made this with. My guide cautions against using it for second-stage02:39
CheesyPastriesAlso even trying to run it for the second-stage it gives back an invalid argument error and complains about / being mounted with noexec or nodev02:39
fsmithredI've only used it to get the base system then chroot for everything else02:44
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: well, it's worth noting, i have never tried this on bsd.  i didn't think the different kernel would be a factor in this, but it's one of the few assumptions left unquestioned...02:44
fsmithredbut devuan forked debootstrap to add devuan-specific script(s)02:44
CheesyPastriesYeah, this shit is weird02:45
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: wait, you did try the devuan debootstrap already, right?02:46
CheesyPastriesfsmithred Last time I made it, I used the Devuan fork02:46
fsmithredoh, ok02:46
gnarfacehmmmm02:47
gnarfaceok just thinking here, if it was a kernel issue, could it be a device issue?  like permissions for the jail to read some hardware rng?02:47
gnarfacecould gpg need hardware access on bsd?02:47
gnarfacei really don't know, i'm grasping at straws02:48
CheesyPastriesWant me to add another layer? It's not even pure freebsd, it's FreeNAS02:48
gnarfaceoy vey02:48
CheesyPastriesI'm thinking of just giving up at this point02:48
gnarfacedoes it have qemu-kvm?02:49
gnarfaceor something like that, which can put a linux kernel in a process?02:49
EHeMFreeBSD has bhyve which appears to be sort of similar to Qemu.02:49
CheesyPastriesIt already came with the linux compatibility layer and I think a preinstalled linux kernal02:50
CheesyPastriesBhyve is for full VMs I believe02:50
gnarfacei would say, try that02:50
gnarfacewell02:50
CheesyPastriesI could always fall back to that but I felt that a jail would be easier to manage the performance of (I don't have to assign a number of cores/RAM)02:51
EHeMCheesyPastries: So is Qemu (though it can also emulate single processes).02:51
gnarfacefirst i would ask google if anyone else had ever had this problem, THEN i would try Bhyve02:51
gnarfaceor Qemu if available02:51
gnarfaceCheesyPastries: i'm with you on the performance thing, i'm just suggesting this mostly as a way to debug by logical deduction.  if Bhyve were to fail the same way, that would seem to rule out the kernel02:52
CheesyPastriesI might do some extra googling and see if I can turn up anything.02:54
CheesyPastriesQemu being able to emulate single processes might be interesting, then I could jail it with the programs that it needs instead of a full VM02:55
CheesyPastriesAll this is so that I can get modern .NET since it hasn't been ported to FreeBSD yet and some apps I want to use are built around it instead of Mono now02:56
arminok so i'm reading a lot of markdown. what's a recommended way of reading these files? i keep using vim because that's what i'm used to, but i'm sure there's a better way, or?02:58
djphnothing wrong with vim03:03
gnarfacearmin: did you try "apt-cache search markdown" ?04:03
armingnarface: hello and thanks so much for the reply. i actually didn't. it wasn't really a technical question. i just keep wondering if i'm totally lost when i'm in my vim reading .md files - i'm used to doing that and i know what i read but at some point i was questioning what i do.04:16
armini should never have asked this. the one channel told me not to cross-post (sorry if that's annoying to someone, i just see 1->many vs. 1->1 here)04:18
gnarfacearmin: ah.  well i don't really know much about markdown or vim.  all i can really do to help is point out that apt-cache supports regexp searches (grep pattern syntax, iirc)04:20
gnarfacei'm sure there are alternatives in there04:21
gnarfacethere is a debian thing called popcon04:21
gnarfacethey post the output somewhere... you might want to find that04:21
gnarface(it's basically a list of packages by popularity)04:21
gnarface(popularity being defined as number of times people who opted into popcon installed it)04:22
Jjp137here's Devuan's, for reference: https://popcon.devuan.org/04:23
gnarfaceah, thanks Jjp137, i wasn't sure there was a stand-in for that yet04:23
Jjp137np; yeah I wonder how one would find it starting from the home page...04:23
Jjp137oh it's linked from pkginfo so there's that.04:24
agriswhat do the packages firmware-raspi and raspi3-firmware do in Devuan ASCII?04:26
agrisand why would they not be installed by default in a raspiberry pi image?04:26
gnarfaceagris: not sure but i think i recall raspbian doesn't even package the firmware???04:28
gnarfacethey just spray it on your drive with a script04:28
gnarfaceiirc04:28
gnarfaceso it might just be the same firwmare, or a subset of that, but packaged like a sane person would do04:28
agriswell I have a raspberry pi 3 here with Devian unstalled04:28
agrisDevuan04:28
agriswhat would happen if I installed firmware-raspi ?04:29
agrisWould it keep blobs in /boot up-to-date for me in my system?04:29
gnarfacei don't know.  they might also be just dev packages04:29
gnarfaceyou might want to ask about this in #devuan-arm04:29
gnarfaceagris: for what it's worth, here on ceres, it says raspi3-firmware is a transitional package...04:32
agrisvery weird04:33
Jjp137apparently it comes from Debian directly, so let's look at Debian's website for this one: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/raspi3-firmware04:33
Jjp137I guess you can look at the file list to get an idea04:34
agrisis reason the date on it is 2016?04:34
Jjp137but yea in sid/ceres it just becomes a transitional package04:34
agrishas the firmware really not seen any updates?04:34
Jjp137I'm guessing it's just Debian policy as usual to not update things unless necessary04:35
Jjp137but who knows04:35
agrisi'm very confused perhaps I can just tell you what I'm trying to do04:36
agrisI'm only using the pi3 with ethernet and a usb uart, running headless most of the time but HDMI is useful for debug04:36
agristhe system is having sporadic voltage issues even with official power supply04:37
agrisI want to underclock the pi to 600MHz, disable the bluetooth and wifi functionality of the soc, enable the internal hardware watchdog, disable turboing, and put the GPU into the lowest performance state possible04:38
agriscurrently the CPU speed is variable between 600MHz and 1200MHz04:38
agrisI think when the cpu kicks up is when the bus voltage drops04:38
agrisI also do not understand this option04:39
agris## maximum amps on usb ports04:39
agrismax_usb_current=104:39
agrisI was not aware the soc had any control over USB current. I thought the USB power lines were just a straight trace from the microusb power input to the female sockets04:40
agrisI also do not understand the effect of this parameter off or on04:40
agrisI doubt USB UART is going to pull a full 5 amps so I don't think I need this option on.04:41
furrywolfheh, my usb rs232 adapters pull a few ma.04:41
furrywolfSome_Other_Guy:  he seems to be perfectly comprehending the answers he gets.04:42
furrywolfgrr, wrong window04:42
agrisDevuan also does not seem to include the vcgencmd command which makes debugging this very hard04:43
agrisI don't know what provides vcgencmd04:43
agris>On the Raspberry Pi 4, the hardware codecs for MPEG2 or VC1 are permanently disabled and cannot be enabled even with a licence key;04:45
agrisPfft. fucking broadcom. It does not make sense to me how purposefully gimping their hardware can be a profitable business decision or why this decision was made. thankfully I'm not using the pi4 or the pi3 for video04:46
furrywolfflir sells three models of each product line.  each has the exact same hardware, exact same sensor, etc.  the base model has the image scaled to half the size and lots of noise added.  the middle model has the image scaled to 2/3rds the size and some noise added.  the high-end model does not downscale the image nor add noise.  so...  broadcom is mild by comparrison?04:50
agrisfurrywolf, ok, so you have hardware that is capable of a clear and unscaled image. You don't need to do anything to make improve the quality, no investment needs to be made. So why not sell un-gimped hardware at the lowest price?04:52
furrywolfwhy sell things for a lower price when you can charge a higher price?04:53
furrywolfi.e. capitalism.04:53
agrisIt's not like it's costing the manufacturer any more money to sell the un-gimped version at the same price. in fact, it costs more to gimp the product. as an engineer has to go in there and implement the code to inject the noise and scaling04:54
agrisfurrywolf, your response does not make any sense.04:54
furrywolfsure it does.  their goal is to make money, not to help you.04:55
agrishow is this 'capitalism''s fault? A capitalist would sell the better product at the same price because it doesn't cost him any more and it competes with others better04:55
djphhell, intel (amd, etc) do it with their chips...04:55
furrywolfno, that's not how capitalism works.04:55
furrywolfprices rise until sales fall.04:56
onefangTake that chat to #debianfork, this channel is for Devuan support.04:56
agrisDoesn't going out of their way COST broadcom/intel/amd etc MORE money than not gimping?04:56
agris*Doesn't going out of their way to gimp the product COST broadcom/intel/amd etc MORE money than not gimping?04:56
furrywolfno, because they convince you that you need to pay more to get a good product, even if it doesn't cost the more.04:56
djphnah, they only build "one chip" (e.g. an i7).  if the lithography has an issue, "meh, cut that trace, call it an i5"04:57
agrisso what? pricefixing? nobody's competing in the SoC space so the few companies get together to fix prices and add these gimps?04:57
djphno04:57
furrywolfyeah, binning and yield issues is not the same thing.04:57
onefangTake that chat to #debianfork, this channel is for Devuan support.04:58
onefangTake that chat to #debianfork, this channel is for Devuan support.04:58
agrisdjph, no, some cpus after manufacturing are just faster than others or certain features are broken04:58
* furrywolf pokes onefang to see if it's actually golinux in disguise04:58
onefangOr does thatt only work when golinux threatens to quiet people?04:58
agristhis is about broadcom's 'SERIAL KEY REQUIRED' to turn on hardware codecs. but respond to this in #debianfork04:58
agrisI still need some help with questions regarding Devuan's stock config.txt05:01
EHeMI suppose the latest update is merely a refinement of a security issue, but Devuan being almost a full week behind Debian in this regard is very worrisome to me.05:29
EHeMMuch further and I might have to start reporting Devuan doesn't care about security.  :-(05:30
fsmithredpkgmaster gets stuck sometimes and we don't always notice it05:36
fsmithredcheck packages.devuan.org - what you need may be there05:36
onefangAh, this is one of the things my that is on the TODO for my mirror checker script.05:41
EHeMfsmithred: How would the mirrors get ahead of pkgmaster?05:42
golinuxThank you onefang.  If the folks who filled the logs with nonsense actually contributed something it wouldn't be so annoying.05:42
furrywolfever consider that other people might have a different definition of nonsense?05:43
golinuxThere is so much dead weight on these channels.05:43
onefangThe Devuan mirrors don't always mirror Debian packages that are not different in Devuan, but instead redirect to Debian's package mirrors.05:43
golinuxTake is to #debianfork furry05:44
golinuxis > it05:44
onefangNot so much "nonsense" as "net related to Devuan support".  This is the Devuan support channel, everything else is off topic.05:44
furrywolfa relatively small portion of people in here are also in #debianfork.  moving a conversation is usually the same as ending it.05:46
golinuxIt's a bit much for "clueless" to understand that05:46
golinuxYou won;t have to end anything if you don't start it05:46
EHeMonefang: Interesting, at which point pkginfo.devuan.org agreeing with what all mirrors and pkgmaster provide is rather serious.05:46
onefangYep, that's why my mirror checking script is checking the mirrors for all sorts of things.  I just have to get around to writing all those tests.05:47
tom_workHello, For some unknown reason in the pi3 Devuan /boot/cmdline contains rootflags=noload which turns off ALL SAFEGUARDS in the ext4 root filesystem leading to MASSIVE filesystem corruption of which I am now trying to recover from08:03
tom_workWhy did cmdline contain rootflags=noload in the first place?08:03
tom_workalso what else can I do in attempt to recover my system? So far I have ran an fsck and various system files are missing08:04
tom_workI was able to recreate some of the system files by hand such as /etc/hostname08:05
tom_worketc08:05
tom_workI can now boot the system back up08:05
tom_workI have since removed rootflags=noload from /boot/cmdline.txt and put in a proper entry in /etc/fstab08:06
tom_workI am also running debsums and reinstalling packages which checksums do not say are ok08:06
tom_workIs there anything else I can do to ensure that this system is fully ok?08:06
tom_workand repaired08:06
tom_workI will be reinstalling udev, vim, and tzdata since those packages appear to be the ones devsums -c is complaining about08:07
EHeMThat is a good idea, `lintian` might also be a good checking candidate.08:09
yetitom_work: noload is in pi1..3 images08:11
EHeMWhen searching for "rootflags=noload" the first several matches were Raspberry PI instructions, so it seems that may be advised right now for some reason.08:12
yeti$ grep -l noload pi*/boot/cmdline.txt | awk -F/ '$0=$1' ORS=" "08:13
yetipi1-0 pi1-1 pi2-0 pi2-1 pi3-0 pi3-108:13
tom_workYou realize that when linux recieves that flag, it mounts ext4 filesystems with norecovery,no_journal_checksum,dealloc,nojournal and a whole load of other deadly options?08:16
tom_workas in you unplug the pi (which happens a lot. usb isn't a reliable power connector) and your filesystem is toast like in the MS-DOS 3 days08:17
EHeMtom_work: Indeed, which is an odd choice though when looking for information on it, it seems a popular option for the Raspberry PI for some (likely very bad) reason.08:18
tom_workOnly thing I can think of is to reduce wear on the sdcard, but that's heardly and ideal way to go about doing that08:18
tom_workdidn't samsung push the F2FS filesystem to linux?08:19
tom_workwhich includes kernel-level wear leveling if for some reason your using hardware without firmware-level wear leveling08:19
yetinobody understands "the foundation"08:19
tom_workyou mean the raspberry pi foundation?08:19
yeti!08:19
yetior who pushed the use of this?08:20
tom_workwell, I'm sure as hell not going to set rootflags=noload on my system. I'll report back if anything at all weird happens08:20
yetiI'll remove it as soon as I boot them again...08:21
tom_workBut i'm running the pi3 clocked at 200Mhz to get away with no heatsink like an old 80s computer so08:21
tom_workI've got a bit of a unique setup.08:22
EHeMThey might have been thinking the running of `fsck` on boot was sufficient to clean things up afterwards.08:22
tom_workEHeM, the Devuan image doesn't run fsck on boot. I had to setup that manually with tune2fs08:22
yeti!!!08:22
infobotin #devuan the exclamation mark ("!"), when put as first char in a line, is the infobot attention char (a shorthand for "infobot: ..." highlight). This is on special request, in most other channels the bot uses tilde ("~") as attention char, and you'll find factoids referring to that like "also see ~<factoid>"08:22
tom_workbut still, no matter what the setup is I would never ever tell someone to add noload to their flags08:23
yetithe safest option should be the default08:23
EHeMtom_work: Yes, which makes it odd that it apparently has been pushed as the default.08:23
yetifsck by mount count and distance to last check should be activated08:24
EHeMyeti: By default the current ext FS utilities turn both off.08:24
yetican someone please add this als bug report?08:24
tom_work! also, I noticed that in that Devuan rpi3 image, there is no fsck.vfat binary, so partition one can't be checked anyways08:25
infobottom_work: what are you talking about?08:25
EHeMyeti: Apparently too many complaints about excessive filesystem checks.08:25
yetiswitching such stuff off is for kali kidz08:25
yetinot for devuan!08:25
EHeMIn other news: https://github.com/andreiw/RaspberryPiPkg/issues/130  Soon there should be a UEFI image for the RP4, which means something approximating a netinst image should be usable for installing on a RP4 soon.08:26
EHeMyeti: It got done in Debian and most distributions.08:26
yetiI installed debian on cubie3 via netinst08:27
EHeMyeti: Pretty sure the author was annoyed at too many complaints, while there were few reports of detected failures.08:27
EHeMyeti: I strongly advise in favor of mount counts and against time of last check.08:27
yetiok... without RTC...08:30
yetiI'll look at this when my devuan-PIs get their RTCs08:31
EHeMyeti: If you've got a server which only reboots once every 2 months, you will *always* hit the 6 month point first and check *all* filesystems at the exact same time.08:31
yetisafety 1st  ;-)08:32
tom_workchecking an ext4 filesystem on a class 10 sdcard takes less than a second to complete08:32
EHeMyeti: I'm not one for bragging about boot times, but checking *all* filesystems on a server *at*the*same*time* is *extraordinarily*painful*.08:32
yetiwe're talking about PIs08:32
yetinot servers with petabytes08:32
* EHeM is glad he got rid of his P3-550MHz machine.08:32
tom_workit's a pi not a server. the biggest the sd card your gonna get on it is around 64gb08:33
tom_workand I'm checking 32gb with a 200MHz clock, it's super fast08:33
EHeM1TB SD Cards are readily available, 512GB aren't too expensive.08:33
tom_work2.6 seconds to check @ 200MHz. time is not an excuse08:33
tom_workCan you even use a 1TB SD card in a raspberry pi?08:34
EHeMI would be astonished if you couldn't, though the default filesystem wouldn't work very well.08:34
tom_workI'm going to write this whole thing up in the mailing list and how to fix it and check your system. Give me an hour or two08:35
tom_workstill need to test things out on my pi08:35
EHeMMore notably checking a 32GB SD card on a device with 1GB of memory isn't that awful, checking 80GB of spinning media on a machine with 256MB of memory is a bit slow.08:36
yetimy devuanPIs are sleeping and the cubietruck doesnt have noload:08:36
yeti(yeti@cubietruck1:1)~$ cat /proc/cmdline08:36
yeticonsole=tty1 console=tty1 quiet08:36
tom_workoh and btw, checking tune2fs on a stock devuan rpi3 image, /dev/mmc*p2's properties the mount count is set to -1 and time is set to 0 which disables all filesystem checking08:37
tom_workyeti, just in case, run tune2fs -l /dev/yourrootpartition08:38
yetithere was sth in the forum about this long ago08:38
yetiI switched on checks then08:39
yetionly noload is new to me now08:39
EHeMhttps://bugs.debian.org/78677108:42
yetihow about scripting tests for such stuff?08:42
yeti"the doctor"08:43
yetinor only for PIs08:43
gnarfacei shit you not, there's some weird conspiracy to sabotage everyones rpi filesystem08:43
tom_workyeti, also make sure that if you have a vfat filesystem you also install dosfstools which provides fsck.fat and fsck.vfat08:43
gnarfaceit's like they get a dollar every time someone has to format and reinstall08:43
gnarfacethey've sabotaged their ext4 rollout so hard and so many times that basic incompetence no longer explains it08:44
gnarfacemy honest recommendation is to stop using ext4 on your pi08:44
gnarfacemaybe anywhere, but somehow this all seems focused mostly there08:44
tom_workwell, I've worked with people that were hesitant to use to use rpis for things because they said "the drive doesn't last" I thought they were talking about wear leveling. now I know why08:44
tom_workthey said that08:45
gnarfacethere was also that version mismatch with e2fsprogs and their installer that was causing filesystem corruption too08:45
tom_workgnarface, What's the state of F2FS support in the kernel? Not using ext4 on the pi could be a very doable thing08:45
gnarfaceand for some reason they just keep sweeping that one under the rug even though i talked to someone a month ago that still got hit by this years-old bug08:45
gnarfacetom_work: can't tell you anything about f2fs, sorry.  but i'm curious about it too08:46
gnarfacereiserfs and xfs have both seemed very flash-friendly to me08:46
yetiI only used it for a short time with openwrt08:46
tom_workWhat else does Devuan carry over from Rasbian in the rpi3 image build? We should audit that08:46
EHeMI would be tempted to start a conspiracy to switch to the UEFI boot.08:47
yetii cant trust reiserfas... thats my #1 data loss erperience08:47
tom_workSGi-XFS is more heavy than ext4. I use it a lot for large database servers and CDN servers. I don't know if it's a good choice for the pi08:47
gnarfacetom_work: that's a good idea.  i'm not the one to ask though.  jaromil or parazyd might be able to tell you.08:47
gnarfaceyeti: yea but at the point where someone is sabotaging ext4 fsck and e2fsprogs, what's really the point?08:48
tom_workthe developer of rfs is a convicted serial killer. that may or may not have relevance08:48
yeti2 != serial08:48
gnarfacewell someone is sabotaging reiserfs and xfs fsck too but that's easier to fix08:49
yetiI saw his talk about reiserfs 1999@augsburg and that already was scary enough08:49
tom_workhttps://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Reiser-juror-explains-what-led-to-conviction-3215952.php08:50
EHeMReiserFS was an excellent filesystem for lots of small files, but really did kind of need a `fsck` utility.08:51
yetiwasnt there a tail merge patch for ext3 too?08:53
yetiwher did it go?08:54
EHeMAs a missing security update, the situation with apache2 should be in the high priority category, though the current update is only medium priority.08:57
tom_workThis whole night started because my power distributor wasn't working reliably and either never finished DHCP or rejecting all incoming ports08:58
tom_workand what I found is gross supreme lack of competence in the configuration of filesystems leading to severe disk corruption and data loss. thankfully I have my source code backed up but damn these defaults need discussed09:00
yetiFS conspiracy? that only can mean systedFS is coming!09:00
yetiE³K!09:00
tom_workno conspiracy, I'm assuming that rpi3 support was just copypasted from Rasbian without doublechecking things09:04
systemdletehow can I completely re-set my user xfce environment?  I tried removing .config/xfce4 but that doesn't re-create the panel.  For some reason, I had to re-install xfce4-panel, but I can't think of any reason I'd remove it.09:47
Guest85883systemdlete, perhaps xfce was still running when you deleted those fiels09:51
systemdleteI don't recall that.  But I am more interested in creating a virgin xfce user environent again.09:52
systemdleteusually, xfce panel initially has about 6 items09:53
systemdleteat the bottom of the screen09:53
systemdletethat is done as a default.09:53
systemdletehow do I go back to that again?09:53
systemdletei.e., how can I get the system to trigger that09:54
systemdlete(istr that it copies a default file hierarchy into the user area, but I am not sure how/when it knows to do that09:55
tom_workgood news, since I've applied those fixes and reinstalled the pi into the power distributor everything has gone back into service and comes up reliably and fast10:00
tom_workinterestingly enough, booting with OpenRC seems to be faster than with SysV on the pi10:01
tom_workeven though the clock is 1000MHz slower10:01
bergix59how to install virtuabox on ascii (devuan)?12:04
onefangapt install virtualbox12:17
onefangNot actually tried it, but I see it in the repos.12:17
deivO/12:18
deivHi12:18
deivhow development of Devuan is related to Debian ? I mean maintaining packages12:20
bergix59I haven't managed to install it from my sources.list12:34
bergix59I guess I have ascii, I will check it.12:34
bergix59hopefully virtualbox is into it, likely because I use the base and not the contrib.12:40
onefangAh, virtualbox is in contrib.12:53
bergix59thank you, I try ...12:54
bergix59well, I didn't manage to install virtualbox on devuan ascii.. I give you my sources list.13:27
bergix59I used this sources list: https://termbin.com/fz1k13:28
onefangTry adding - deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib13:32
bergix59thank you ... I was installing debian, I am glad of your post!!! sincerely.13:33
bergix59wow!! thank you very much!! it is installing currently ! about 760mb, quite large but if it works, I am fine.13:35
onefangYou are welcome.13:36
bergix59furthermore I am glad that it does not get the data from virtualbox or whatever debian or strange non-free systemd agents.13:36
bergix59nope ...13:40
bergix59it failed.13:40
bergix59it states that loading virituabl box kernelal modules failred , not suitable.13:41
bergix59uname -a gives me 4.9.0-6-686-pae13:41
onefangI don't actually use virtualbox, so I probably can't help much more.13:41
onefangDid it build kernel modules while installing, and did you reboot?13:42
bergix59it seems that it failed there with those modules.13:42
bergix59I remember that was since ages sames issue with vmware client, aka modules.13:42
onefangOh, and did you "apt update && apt upgrade" after editing your sources.list?13:43
bergix59sure, yeah before always.13:43
onefangI'm out of ideas then.13:44
bergix59anytime. thank you for your kind help ! I would like also to thank #devuan channel not to lock it for non registered irc users.13:45
bergix59It seems that you respect opensource, free, community.13:45
r3bootok, so the problem with using ^^ for sources.list, is that you get the binary vbox* kernel drivers. Trick here is to find the sourcecode for the kernel drivers, and compile them on your devuan box. That will get you working drivers; Now, under archlinux, you have -dkms packages for that, but I dont know how devuan/debian does that13:49
r3bootbut iig, that will be the trick to get the vbox* drivers to load13:50
onefangdeb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib13:51
onefangMight help, dunno.13:51
r3bootcould also be that the sourcecode is under /usr/share/virtualbox or so.. dont have any linux box nearby to check tho :(13:52
onefangOr maybe try qemu-kvm instead.13:52
r3bootfind /usr -iname *vbox* <-- will find it if it's there13:53
r3bootyeah, qemu-kvm indeed, although that doesnt do 3d acceleration13:53
tom_workbergix59, Have you tried AQEMU instead?14:09
tom_workIt doesn't need any special modules and uses the kernel's own built in KVM14:09
tom_workan optionally TCG for cpus without hardware virtualization acceleration14:10
onefangAh, aqemu is a front end to qemu-kvm.  I had not heard of it.14:23
bergix59So, after install (burk) debian stable, I tried to add this gpg key stuff, and noticed that buster i386, there is no virtualbox, but only for amd64. This virtualbox is consumed by all ubuntu stuffs (burk^3), and it is made by oracle. Finally, it seems to be a linux power driven by amazon, redhat, gnome, and all corruptions. So, it seems that it is better not to use virtualbox ever.16:17
* yeti uses naked qemu16:18
eadyUgh.  Why, after a power blink, does the system tell me that my root fs needs manual fsck, and then start a BusyBox shell?  What good does that do me?  BusyBox doesn't know how to fsck.19:02
eady(Also, why is manual fsck even still a thing in 2019?  How many users _actually_ know enough low-level stuff about filesystems to make more informed choices than automatic fsck?)19:03
eady(Err, I don't mean why is manual fsck _possible_, I mean why is _requiring_ it a thing.  I don't think it should be required, ever.  The user should be able to say no, just do your best automatically and give me my computer back.)19:04
eadyI mean, isn't that what journals are supposed to be for?  Why do we even have fs journaling, if we're going to still have to do manual fsck when the power blinks?19:06
buZzeh?19:12
buZzyour devuan box comes with busybox?19:13
eadyApparrently?19:14
eadyI mean, I was not aware of it until now.19:14
buZzoh gee, mine does too19:17
buZzbut, even on powerfailure, mounting the disk will do a fsck if it was not cleanly unmounted, for me19:18
eadyBusyBox is too limited to actually be useful in this situation.19:18
eadyYes, normally it just does fsck automatically.19:18
eadyBut about one time in ten, it decides it can't complete automatically for whatever reason, and demands manual fsck.19:19
eadyWhich isn't new, that's been the case since the nineties at least.19:19
eadyBut in the past, I could've sworn it gave you a way to run fsck.19:19
eadyOr maybe I just always had a knoppix CD handy in the past.  Not sure why I don't atm.19:20
eadyGonna have to burn one.19:20
bergix59knoppix will never ever boot on current, modern hardware.19:23
eadyI believe the system in question is old enough to have a real BIOS, so it should boot, I hope.19:25
eadyNot sure what I will do if it doesn't.19:26
eadyI'd hate to have to pull the hard drive and put it in another system just to get past this.19:26
eadyWhat do people with newer, UEFI-type systems use instead of knoppix these days?19:27
Humpelstilzcheneady: grml?19:31
* eady looks into that.19:31
Humpelstilzchenthere is also a grml-rescueboot package19:33
Humpelstilzchenit can start a grml iso from your disk19:33
eadyFrom the grub menu?  That'd be handy.19:33
MinceRthere's also SystemRescueCD, though newest releases are infested with systemd19:34
eadyThough I wonder if it'd work in this situation, with the root fs not bootable.19:34
eadyI have sworn off poetteringed systems.19:34
eadyAfter the Great PulseAudio Debacle.19:34
MinceRi tend to use 5.3.2, it's their last non-cancerd version19:34
Humpelstilzcheneady: grub menu yes, /boot/grub must be reable for that19:34
Humpelstilzchenbut I guess you could configure it to look on a special partition19:35
eadyOh, hmm.  Maybe it's a good thing I'm still using a separate partition for /boot19:35
eadyI've been wondering if that's still worth doing...19:35
eadyPerhaps it is.19:35
eadyOh good, Knoppix worked in this case.19:38
eadyOr, at least, it got me to the point where e2fsck is starting.19:38
eadySays it's "recovering journal", I take that as a good sign.19:38
eadyHmm.  I don't think it successfully recovered the fs yet though.19:43
eadyNow I am worried that the disk may actually be failing or something.  At least that wouldn't be the software's fault.19:45
nemosay. are there any beta isos ? I was thinking of trying to install it on this laptop I'm setting up for the kids19:47
nemoI hear it's fairly reliable19:47
nemohm. don't see any on the mirrors20:52
golinuxnemo: Before Beowulf, there will be an ASCII 2.1 point release21:05
bergix59the virtualbox from backports seems to work. I reinstalled with xfce from ascii iso cdrom, then I did added the following source with https://termbin.com/ug6j with backports.21:06
golinuxUntil then, you can install ASCII and upgrade21:06
golinuxbergix59: You should be using devuan backports not debian21:07
golinuxNever mind.  Brain fart.21:08
golinuxThat looks fine21:08
bergix59debian is ugly yeah, I can confirm it...21:10
bergix59enps1s0 and whatever, the ubuntu concept for installation of virtualbox is same junk...21:10
bergix59a base system with less ;) and even without xterm... gnupg stuff and all the concept of X which cannot start from remote... however linux has good drivers and firmwares.21:11
bergix59(edit: without less)21:11
bergix59sorry but it seems that vboxdrv is not present21:28
bergix59I just installed a clean xfce devuan installation   + backport ascii. I rebooted 3 times.21:28
bergix59there is no vboxdrv into the directory (-r)  /lib or into modules21:35
sixwheeledbeastI believe consistent network naming was a redhat thing part of udev before being balled up into behemothD21:54
bergix59sixwheeledbeast: wlan0 is history, like urtwn0 ... ;)22:15
bergix59It seems that I have to compile /var/src/ ... virtualbox 5.2, with the module. apt-get did not compile the module vboxdrv.22:42
dabcI hope you'll get this working, these days I'll be installing virtualbox too :)22:51
bergix59I guess it won't work like that. I just did a clean way installation.22:52
bergix59Really clean, full installation but I miss modules. I gave you above my sources.list22:52
nivirxhello devuan, it seems there was a elogind update that is currently being held back on my system? Installed from ASCII then dist-upgraded to Beowulf. Any help would be appreciated, not quite sure whats up.23:23
nivirxok, for anyone else that encounters the same issue, `apt download libelogind` then dpkg -i libelogind then apt --fix-broken install fixed the issue23:44
fsmithredthanks, nivirx23:45
nivirxyeah seems I need to man apt/dpkg sometime...too used to my gentoo and rpm systems :)23:47
nemogolinux: 'k23:49
nemogolinux: oh. will GIMP 2.10 be in beowulf? I've been using a SuSE overlay for the moment23:49
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/ is your friend23:50
Jjp137Buster has 2.10.8 so Beowulf will most likely have that23:51
Jjp137but yes, that page is your friend23:51

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