| tom_work | freedom? | 00:15 |
|---|---|---|
| tom_work | How is the raspberry pi image developed? | 02:37 |
| tom_work | Is there a debootsrap template or something? | 02:37 |
| tom_work | a script? | 02:38 |
| golinux | https://beta.devuan.org/os/distro-kit | 02:38 |
| golinux | You can drop the beta. That's just where I'm working now. | 02:39 |
| golinux | https://devuan.org/os/distro-kit | 02:39 |
| tom_work | huh | 02:39 |
| tom_work | so is this different from Debian preseeds? | 02:39 |
| tom_work | I have experience designing preseeds for automated debian installations | 02:40 |
| tom_work | Is the Devuan SDK different than this? | 02:40 |
| gnarface | tom_work: all the ARM images from devuan are custom, pre-installed images | 02:45 |
| gnarface | tom_work: there is no ARM installer | 02:45 |
| gnarface | that's why they're so different from the x86 stuff | 02:45 |
| gnarface | they're all built from some script in the gitlab | 02:46 |
| tom_work | I see | 02:46 |
| gnarface | you are encouraged to check it out and try it | 02:46 |
| gnarface | if you are dissatisfied with the ARM builds and can provide knowledgeable feedback, i'm sure they would appreciate it | 02:47 |
| tom_work | I'm going to read into this but can you give me the general rundown of what the structure is? quick version. Is it just a bash script-like situation that calls in debootstrap or something more monolithic? | 02:47 |
| gnarface | i don't know actually. but yea i think it's primarily a shell script | 02:47 |
| gnarface | look for something in the gitlab called "arm-sdk" i don't have the exact link memorized | 02:48 |
| tom_work | ok good so sounds like it should be relatively easy to patch | 02:48 |
| gnarface | oh it's in the channel topic of #devuan-arm: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk | 02:49 |
| gnarface | tom_work: oh, and the link golinux gave you has a link to that on there too | 02:50 |
| gnarface | it actually seems to have a more coherent rundown than i've just typed out | 02:50 |
| gnarface | seems like a good place to start | 02:50 |
| TwistedFate | is anyone using wayland/sway on devuan? | 02:52 |
| TwistedFate | thinking of switching and i'm wondering how it works | 02:52 |
| tom_work | no | 02:54 |
| tom_work | I wouldn't recommend doing that | 02:54 |
| TwistedFate | w-why not? | 02:54 |
| golinux | TwistedFate: I have never seen questions anywhere on devudn about wayland | 02:55 |
| golinux | typo | 02:55 |
| TwistedFate | omg i'm finally first in something :D | 02:55 |
| golinux | In this case might not be a good thing . . . | 02:55 |
| TwistedFate | why not? is wayland bad? | 02:56 |
| golinux | iiuc wayland is quite immature | 02:56 |
| tom_work | >TwistedFate> omg i'm finally first in something :D | 02:56 |
| tom_work | haha, you say that like it's a good thing | 02:57 |
| tom_work | XD | 02:57 |
| TwistedFate | :') | 02:57 |
| tom_work | Doing things first in OSS is hard -- saying from experience | 02:57 |
| tom_work | there's a lot of upfront heavy lifting that has to be done by somebody, and if your the first you gotta do it | 02:58 |
| tom_work | anyways, I would not recommend using wayland because it's not at the same maturity as most other software, it also has serious architectural problems like the way windows are managed, meaning using a window manager is not as simple as just starting one up and having your display server tell your window manager where all the windows are | 02:59 |
| TwistedFate | hmm | 03:00 |
| tom_work | as well as network transparency problems which if you ever use 'ssh -X' you will probably run into | 03:00 |
| tom_work | problems with gpu drivers, | 03:00 |
| TwistedFate | hmm | 03:01 |
| TwistedFate | i guess wayland is out of the question if i'm playing video games :/ | 03:01 |
| tom_work | or if you run graphically accelerated programs as different users and/or kernel namespaces | 03:01 |
| phogg | I have seen two Wayland reactions (in general, not Devuan specific): "I didn't realize my distro had switched until I tried to run $foo and it didn't work" and "I tried to use it but $x, $y, and $z did not work and I gave up." There is not much in between. | 03:01 |
| tom_work | say you like steam but don't want to let it access all your personal files or run analytics on your system, so you run steam as it's own UNIX user, '_steam" | 03:02 |
| tom_work | ' | 03:02 |
| tom_work | and then give the steam user permission to use graphics hardware and audio hardware directly | 03:02 |
| TwistedFate | tom_work: wait, can steam be isolated like that without it complaining and crashing | 03:02 |
| TwistedFate | ? | 03:02 |
| tom_work | with Xorg you simply give the _steam user the Xauthority cookie for the display server to use and off you go to the races | 03:03 |
| tom_work | TwistedFate, yes, I personally use that | 03:03 |
| tom_work | it works very well | 03:03 |
| TwistedFate | tom_work: oh wow, i'd like to use that as well, how do i set it up? | 03:03 |
| phogg | tom_work: what about wayland+Xwayland and no other clients? Should work, no? | 03:03 |
| tom_work | TwistedFate, I'm at the cafe right now about to head back home, but if you are interested I'd be willing to help you set that up | 03:04 |
| TwistedFate | tom_work: yes, i would like that. | 03:04 |
| tom_work | if your running Xwayland you might as well just run Xorg. therwise you basiclly running two display servers when you only need one | 03:04 |
| tom_work | give me 30 minutes I'm heading home right now. | 03:05 |
| EHeM | Hmm, mentions of Raspberry PI and ARM on #devuan, rather than #devuan-arm... | 03:16 |
| EHeM | There is a UEFI chaining bootloader for the Raspberry PI 3&4, report I read is it is good enough for the Debian ARM netinst image (Devuan doesn't have an ARM netinst image) the version for the 4 is alpha-quality. | 03:19 |
| EHeM | Wayland sounds like it has some good ideas, problem is it also includes a number of bad ideas; say what you will about X, but including the premise of network transparency at the base has been a huge win. | 03:20 |
| agris | Who was it that needed help isolating steam? | 03:51 |
| gnarface | it was TwistedFate | 03:59 |
| agris | TwistedFate, still need help? | 04:00 |
| TwistedFate | agris: hey | 04:17 |
| TwistedFate | yea | 04:17 |
| TwistedFate | agris=tom_work? | 04:17 |
| agris | y | 04:17 |
| agris | need help now? | 04:18 |
| TwistedFate | agris: i'm about to start a dota game, let's do it some other time | 04:20 |
| agris | k | 04:20 |
| EHeM | Working on plans for a Raspberry PI 4 installation... | 04:28 |
| EHeM | At this point, it kind of looks like my best option may be to use a UEFI firmware image to chainload to a Debian ARM64 netinst image, and use that to install a Devuan debootstrap image. | 04:30 |
| EHeM | That seems a bit convoluted, but the lack of a Devuan ARM64 netinst image forces pondering such ideas. | 04:30 |
| agris | EHeM, why? | 04:36 |
| agris | Why not just point uboot to a netinst kernel ramdisk on a tftp server? | 04:37 |
| agris | or store a netisnt on the boot partition | 04:37 |
| agris | no need to install a bloated bootloader like a full efi implementation | 04:37 |
| agris | there's a whole attack surface your adding with that. checkout UEFI firmware auditing | 04:38 |
| agris | How familiar are you with uboot? | 04:38 |
| agris | Personally even on my X86 machines I didn't go from BIOS to UEFI. I went from BIOS to coreboot grub2 payload | 04:39 |
| gnarface | yea, using uefi seems to be really overcomplicating the matter to me too | 04:42 |
| gnarface | that's really the way debian does it? | 04:43 |
| gnarface | they have a arm64 netinstall image? | 04:44 |
| gnarface | and it loads uefi firmware on arm? | 04:44 |
| gnarface | or ... expects uefi firmware on arm? | 04:44 |
| agris | the scope is UEFI is insane. It even implements a framebuffer | 04:45 |
| agris | if your interested in revamping the image for arm devices I think looking at how OpenBSD does it is a pretty good start | 04:49 |
| agris | they provide the bsd.rd image which contains the kernel, a basic filesystem and an installer | 04:49 |
| agris | it's only a couple megs so it can easily be put on a tftp server commonly used for deploying firmware updates to various embedded devices like ip phones n such | 04:50 |
| agris | speaking of openbsd they just released 6.6 with new art | 04:51 |
| agris | check this out https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.6/arm64/INSTALL.arm64 | 04:52 |
| gnarface | neat | 04:53 |
| EHeM | The point of UEFI is that it provides a consistent interface to the hardware, consistent enough for early boot stages (GRUB) to not need to care about what the actual hardware is and not need custom drivers. | 05:00 |
| EHeM | Also consistent enough to use an ARM64 netinst image instead of a Raspberry PI-specific image. | 05:01 |
| gnarface | does u-boot not support the raspberry pi or something? | 05:02 |
| EHeM | That might be an option, I do know there is an alpha-quality UEFI image. | 05:03 |
| gnarface | because that's also what u-boot is for, from what it sounds like to me | 05:05 |
| gnarface | though it seems more directed towards ARM stuff specifically | 05:05 |
| agris | uboot provides the consistent hardware interface through an embedded dtb | 05:05 |
| agris | and yes, the raspberry pi uses uboot | 05:06 |
| EHeM | For that though looks like there is grub-uboot for armel and armhf, but not arm64. | 05:06 |
| agris | uboot is not arm specific. I've also used it on PPC | 05:06 |
| gnarface | i thought the ppc fork was yaboot | 05:07 |
| gnarface | i have used yaboot on ppc | 05:07 |
| gnarface | i wasn't sure if they were related in any way other than name | 05:07 |
| agris | https://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot/ | 05:08 |
| agris | btw | 05:08 |
| agris | put the OpenBSD ARM64 miniroot.fs onto the pi's SD card and boot it up with a serial console attached | 05:09 |
| agris | uboot is already on there | 05:09 |
| agris | although keep in mind I think there are some hardware limitations on the pi due to the corners cut to reduce the cost | 05:12 |
| EHeM | Problem with all the current installs is they're copying the kernel onto a FAT filesystem, which means merely installing a newer kernel package isn't going to boot the new kernel. | 05:12 |
| agris | on the Pi when you use the internal SoC's UART it's clock source comes from the main arm core | 05:13 |
| agris | so you have to turn off frequency scaling and run the pi at a specific frequency to have the UART at a consistent baud rate | 05:13 |
| agris | EHeM, well could it be possible to use ext2 instead of vfat? | 05:15 |
| agris | that way you could have symbolic links? | 05:15 |
| agris | ext2 is simple enough to implement in bootrom | 05:15 |
| furrywolf | tweak the frequency scaling code to also update the uart divisor at the same time | 05:17 |
| EHeM | agris: My understanding is the second-stage bootloader (SPI EEPROM) understands VFAT-only, symbolic links in the boot area would require it to understand the filesystem where the kernel has been installed (ext4). | 05:17 |
| agris | you only need enough to load a kernel and a initial ramdisk into memory | 05:18 |
| EHeM | Or the next-stage bootloader, like GRUB. | 05:19 |
| agris | on my X86 machines I like to use grub after hwinit because grub is very modular and modules already existing for booting directly from a LUKS encrypted disk or verifying a kernel via OpenPGP instead of the complicated X.509 mess | 05:19 |
| EHeM | GRUB is prepared for copying itself into a boot area, the kernel package installation scripts are not. | 05:19 |
| agris | and grub even has modules for filesystems like ZFS | 05:20 |
| agris | say you use ext2 to keep things small | 05:20 |
| agris | or just use the ext4 filesystem module so you keep everything on one partition | 05:20 |
| agris | but no, what if we want to upgrade the rootfs to F2FS in the future? | 05:21 |
| EHeM | If there were grub-uboot packages for arm64, I would try that first, but there aren't so I'm planning for an approach which will work. | 05:21 |
| agris | putting /boot on it's own is still a good idea | 05:21 |
| EHeM | UEFI is a *really* crappy standard, but because it is a standard many things work with it; thus it allows use of GRUB, which allows generic kernel installation scripts. | 05:23 |
| EHeM | There is a "systemd-boot" bootloader. Wow. | 05:35 |
| Acacia | it's also overreaching as hell https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17457317 | 05:38 |
| Acacia | (link is about a NES emulator on UEFI) | 05:38 |
| agris | there's no reason to use efi here | 05:44 |
| agris | if it's really that big of a deal just adjust the kernel installer to put the live kernel in /boot/vmlinuz as well as a copy in /boot with the version number | 05:45 |
| agris | using the system that's already there | 05:45 |
| agris | anybody want to join me in a game of black mesa coop beta? | 05:49 |
| agris | they just added the office complex | 05:49 |
| agris | https://upload.nuegia.net/44b3ad31-0ff0-4356-b228-0f0ee935a9ee/Linux%20Cola%2c%20100%25%20Open%20Sauce%20%28Black%20Mesa%20Source%29.jpg | 05:52 |
| TwistedFate | agris: you there? | 06:13 |
| agris | yes | 06:19 |
| golinux | Whatever . . . please keep it on Devuan support | 06:20 |
| golinux | Thanks. | 06:20 |
| TwistedFate | agris: can i pm you? | 06:24 |
| agris | sometimes | 06:26 |
| golinux | ASCII 2.1 partial release: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3114 | 06:49 |
| furrywolf | yay | 06:50 |
| furrywolf | are there major changes, or is it about what I already have with upgrading occasionally? | 06:50 |
| golinux | You can read the notes | 06:50 |
| golinux | Depends what you consider major. | 06:51 |
| furrywolf | anything that apt-get update && apt-get upgrade won't have correctly done already... | 06:51 |
| fsmithred | it's just new isos with up-to-date software | 06:57 |
| targz | "ASCII 2.1 partial release: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3114" Excellent :D | 07:20 |
| agris | eggs | 07:51 |
| agris | needs moar eggs | 07:51 |
| agris | how does something like CVE-2019-3462 happen? | 08:01 |
| agris | I thought before any of these packages were even processed they had to pass a PGP check | 08:02 |
| EHeM | agris: That is *during* the download process. | 08:27 |
| irssi | ls | 17:04 |
| irssi | hello | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | cd cd | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | dcd cd coxde | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | cd code | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | ls | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | cd ../code | 17:04 |
| Guest81752 | cd code | 17:05 |
| Guest81752 | ls | 17:05 |
| Guest81752 | ./docodingforme | 17:05 |
| Guest81752 | hmmm | 17:05 |
| onefang | Wrong window error. | 17:05 |
| irssiZ2 | :P | 17:05 |
| irssiZ2 | onefang: I am having problems with libpng and it's binary incompatabilites | 17:05 |
| irssiZ2 | because it sucks as a lib | 17:05 |
| irssiZ2 | libjpeg and targa don't have these problems | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | but I can't even get ld_preload to fix it | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | libpng warning: Application built with libpng-1.4.22 but running with 1.6.28 | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | Error loading png file. | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | export LD_PRELOAD=/usr/local/lib/libpng14.so; ./crossedit | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | 17:06 | |
| irssiZ2 | usually ld preload makes things work | 17:06 |
| onefang | Meh, I'm still annoyed that Stretch / ASCII had JPEG 200 support ripped out of almost everything. | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | here it's ignoring this | 17:06 |
| onefang | Er 2000. | 17:06 |
| irssiZ2 | onefang: tip: just use .tga files for all textures etc | 17:07 |
| irssiZ2 | .tga is built into the engines often, and is lossless and loads /fast/ | 17:07 |
| irssiZ2 | and a zipped tga is similar in size to a png | 17:07 |
| irssiZ2 | onefang: why was it ripped out? | 17:08 |
| irssiZ2 | is it debian being "soyboys" and obeying patents | 17:08 |
| onefang | Unfortunately Opensim (where I do a lot of work) uses the same native graphic format as Second Life, JPEG 2000. So I kinda need it to be supported by more than just imagemagick. | 17:08 |
| irssiZ2 | this is what one gets when wage slaves invade hackerspace. | 17:08 |
| onefang | I dunno why. | 17:08 |
| irssiZ2 | probably american white boys afraid they'll get sued | 17:08 |
| irssiZ2 | then their "jerb" and "muh whoit wuhman wife" would be lost by them | 17:09 |
| irssiZ2 | 20 years ago there were 0 white-boy wage slaves in opensource/free software | 17:09 |
| furrywolf | ... why are you being a biggoted cunt to discuss open-source software? | 17:09 |
| irssiZ2 | only slavs, jews, and nerds (who white workin' boys reject as "human") | 17:09 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: because when I joined opensource it was biggoted | 17:10 |
| irssiZ2 | no women | 17:10 |
| irssiZ2 | and no mules | 17:10 |
| nemo | onefang: wow. someone actually uses jpeg2k? | 17:10 |
| irssiZ2 | now there are both women, and the mules they ride on | 17:10 |
| irssiZ2 | it was better when it was only nerds etc | 17:10 |
| irssiZ2 | the mules are afraid of being sued | 17:11 |
| nemo | onefang: my experience with jpeg2k was the quality was not significantly better than, say, mozjpeg (sometimes worse depending on image content), but with disadvantage of significantly slower encode/decode and far worse support. | 17:11 |
| irssiZ2 | so they obey US laws | 17:11 |
| irssiZ2 | nemo: why isn't ldpreload fixing my issue | 17:11 |
| onefang | Looong ago Second Life picked JPEG 2000 is their internal graphics format, thus OpenSIm had to follow. I have many tens of GB of the things. | 17:11 |
| nemo | onefang: hell. there was one jpeg2k demo page where I made the mistake of saving the jpeg2k to desktop to run a comparison test.... and the thumbnailer crashed. causing an infinite loop of MATE desktop reload filed a bug about that | 17:11 |
| furrywolf | hrmm, "fang", second life... a furry! :P | 17:12 |
| nemo | they fixed the decoder not their failure to spawn a new process | 17:12 |
| nemo | onefang: mm. I guess it was the new hotness at the time secondlife was spawned | 17:12 |
| djph | ^ | 17:12 |
| nemo | onefang: nowdays I'd say it's the formats based on AV1 and h265 and the like which show more promise | 17:12 |
| onefang | I'm hairy, not furry. A true greybeard. | 17:12 |
| nemo | onefang: (the static image formats) | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | guess no one will help me | 17:13 |
| nemo | https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/ etc | 17:13 |
| onefang | Unfortunately I'm stuck with thousands of JPEG 2000, and having to support them. | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | I insulted your precious wuuuuuhhhmmaaaannnnssss | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | wuwuuuuhhhhhmmmmaannnnnn | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | the cunts who do no code, but rule over all code now | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | because you are all wage slave faggots | 17:13 |
| furrywolf | have you considered killing yourself? | 17:13 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: nope | 17:14 |
| nemo | onefang: well, I can certainly see jpeg2k support as kind of an edge case nowdays, is it such a big deal to bundle your own lib? | 17:14 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: I'm a hacker, not a wageslave faggot such as yourself, woman. | 17:14 |
| irssiZ2 | I am glad, however, that you, a woman, needs to work | 17:14 |
| irssiZ2 | at least you are miserable | 17:14 |
| irssiZ2 | cunts like you attack RMS | 17:14 |
| furrywolf | Yep. It's because I don't live in my parents' basement. When you no longer do this, you will get a job too. | 17:15 |
| onefang | The problem is no viewer to view several directories full of them, no editor to edit them. | 17:15 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: I'm an attorney | 17:15 |
| nemo | ah... | 17:15 |
| djph | furrywolf: wait, you're a woman? | 17:15 |
| irssiZ2 | a New York Lawyer | 17:15 |
| nemo | onefang: yeah, I never did figure out how to edit those | 17:15 |
| nemo | onefang: couldn't even get gimp to load them | 17:15 |
| furrywolf | onefang: convert *.jpg... :P | 17:15 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: you scum will work for my guys | 17:15 |
| nemo | onefang: and that was years ago | 17:15 |
| nemo | furrywolf: does convert have jpeg2k linked in? | 17:15 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: oh and I'm an heir | 17:15 |
| djph | furrywolf: I always just thought you were a dog :/ | 17:15 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: I don't have to work for a living. | 17:15 |
| * nemo tries in ascii | 17:16 | |
| djph | I'm pretty sure this is also the wrong channel for this ... | 17:16 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: I am glad you are miserable, cunt | 17:16 |
| furrywolf | djph: I'm rapidly becoming more of a female dog the more I listen to irssiZ2 talk.... | 17:16 |
| irssiZ2 | in the past women just lived off their mules | 17:16 |
| irssiZ2 | happily some of the women can't do they anymore | 17:16 |
| djph | furrywolf: works for me. | 17:16 |
| nemo | wow. it works. cool. | 17:16 |
| irssiZ2 | they do seek to control the stupid white men anyway however | 17:16 |
| nemo | score one for convert | 17:16 |
| djph | furrywolf: as does /ignore. he got tiresome. | 17:16 |
| irssiZ2 | furrywolf: you must be hearing things: I am not saying anything | 17:17 |
| r3boot | people, this is the devuan support channel. Please take the offtopic talk to #debianfork | 17:17 |
| Dyrcona | Is Beowulf's lsb_release Distributor ID still supposed to say "Debian" or is that a bug? (I know Beowulf is still testing.) | 17:18 |
| furrywolf | onefang: just checked, and I can confirm imagemagick on ascii both reads and writes jpeg2000. | 17:18 |
| onefang | Yep, it's the one tool that escaped the purge of JPEG 2000, I mentioned that already. | 17:19 |
| furrywolf | find ./ -iname \*.jp2 -exec convert \{\} .jpg.... | 17:20 |
| onefang | Did I mention I have thousands of them? lol | 17:21 |
| onefang | A whole lot easier to deal with them if I can deal with them in the native format instead of constantly converting back and forth. | 17:21 |
| furrywolf | find will run happily overnight. :) | 17:22 |
| onefang | Until it runs out of disk space. | 17:22 |
| furrywolf | oh, you also have something that only reads jpeg2k? | 17:22 |
| onefang | I already said, OpenSim. | 17:23 |
| furrywolf | ah, I figured the problem was it would only write them, not that it would only read them. | 17:23 |
| onefang | It's the native format. | 17:24 |
| onefang | It only supports a few others on import or export. | 17:25 |
| nemo | onefang: you said this was for editing though? | 17:25 |
| nemo | onefang: do you really need to convert all of them? | 17:26 |
| nemo | onefang: why not generate jpeg thumbnails of them all to find the one you need | 17:26 |
| * furrywolf still has a hard time with the idea of a non-furry using secondlife | 17:26 | |
| nemo | onefang: then when you need to work on one, convert it to png or ppm, edit it in gimp then convert back to jp2? | 17:26 |
| onefang | Yes, I do all of that. I can also complain about the need do all that needless work when I used to be able to just not have to. | 17:27 |
| onefang | Coz Debian decided to purge JPEG 2000 support. I guess they simply forgot to remove it from Imagemagick. | 17:28 |
| james1138 | Sorry for delay. Could this help Onefang? https://www.openjpeg.org/ | 17:28 |
| djph | link that "Debian" purged support? | 17:28 |
| james1138 | https://packages.debian.org/source/stable/openjpeg2 | 17:30 |
| furrywolf | if debian doesn't have it, apt-get source gimp, compile with --with-jpeg2000? | 17:31 |
| furrywolf | gimp 2.10 supposedly supports jpeg2000 well, up to 32bpp... | 17:32 |
| furrywolf | and in four different colorspaces | 17:32 |
| furrywolf | beowulf has 2.10 | 17:36 |
| golinux | Sorry I didn't see that meltdown earlier | 17:37 |
| furrywolf | it's people like that who are why linux now has a CoC. heh. | 17:37 |
| djph | it happens, you're only human | 17:37 |
| djph | ugh, don't start that flamewar furrywolf | 17:37 |
| furrywolf | nah, I think golinux identifies as vulcan. :) | 17:38 |
| djph | ... | 17:38 |
| furrywolf | yeah, I've had that flamewar too many times. and I'm not awake enough for it again. | 17:39 |
| fbt | This is, first and foremost, not a channel for that discussion | 17:39 |
| fbt | (and I'm not even a part of the project, why am I saying this :D) | 17:39 |
| DonkeyHotei | you're saying it because gatekeeping is addictive | 17:40 |
| furrywolf | lol | 17:41 |
| DonkeyHotei | "linux now has a CoC. heh." | 17:42 |
| DonkeyHotei | acronyms... | 17:42 |
| furrywolf | ? | 17:43 |
| nemo | oh. is he gone? can I remove my /ignore? | 17:43 |
| DonkeyHotei | yes | 17:43 |
| nemo | cool. I don't like having entries in ignore list that I then wonder why I had 'em 10 years later | 17:44 |
| furrywolf | he got even stupider after you ignored him, then left. | 17:45 |
| nemo | furrywolf: well. he was in clear violation of the Devuan code of conduct | 17:46 |
| nemo | furrywolf: which is IMO quite sufficient | 17:46 |
| nemo | furrywolf: the forum one. about being civil adults | 17:46 |
| nemo | furrywolf: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=17 | 17:47 |
| nemo | I'm a fan of minimalist ones like that since they work juuuuust fine on jackass trolls | 17:47 |
| nemo | just like I'm a fan of minimalist init systems 😃 | 17:48 |
| furrywolf | the original for that reads too much like "don't ask, don't tell". | 17:49 |
| nemo | furrywolf: it's funny, every once in a while we get people we banned on the hedgewars game server complaining that we don't have explicitly listed rules for appropriate behaviour but focus on words like civility and kid-appropriate. well no, because if we had explicit language you trolls would rule lawyer it | 17:49 |
| nemo | furrywolf: *shrug* dunno. but I do like the fact that it is OT for FOSS | 17:49 |
| nemo | furrywolf: in theory you have no idea what nemo's identity is, even though I don't make it that hard to discover, and it shouldn't matter | 17:49 |
| JTechno | Hello folks, I'm running devuan on my netbook with kernel 4.9.0-8 and an ATI Radeon HD 6320, with this configuration everything is perfect but as soon as I upgrade the kernel the integrated display stays off on reboot, I can connect an external display and it works, someone has idea on what is going on? | 19:31 |
| JTechno | I'm not using propietary drivers | 19:32 |
| avbox14 | I try to install budgie-desktop, it always tells me that it cannot create file in /run/user/xxx. I did read that /run/user is used for systemd user management. How to do this in devuan? | 20:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's likely not possible in devuan, the DE's that work in Devuan have checked or been patched to make sure they do not have systemd components | 20:22 |
| yeti | tmpfs 796112 80 796032 1% /run/user/1000 | 20:23 |
| yeti | on debian | 20:23 |
| yeti | that line is from df -a | 20:23 |
| yeti | fake it on the normal FS as 1st test | 20:23 |
| yeti | $ ls -l /run/user/1000 -d | 20:24 |
| yeti | drwx------ 13 yeti yeti 280 Oct 20 10:54 /run/user/1000 | 20:24 |
| yeti | it's just an isolated tmpfs | 20:25 |
| yeti | none 1027488 4 1027484 1% /run/user/111 | 20:27 |
| yeti | that is from beowulf | 20:27 |
| yeti | user 111 is lightdm | 20:27 |
| yeti | none on /run/user/111 type tmpfs (rw,relatime,mode=700,uid=111) | 20:28 |
| avbox14 | I created /run directory, but it did not help to start budgie-desktop. What is strange, | 20:33 |
| avbox14 | if I log via ssh and set export DISPLAY=:1, budgie-desktop does start, but not if I start it directly from console (incl. /run directory). Could it be a problem of environment variables? | 20:36 |
| amesser | there should be no need to manually create /run | 21:02 |
| amesser | here on ascii: /run exists /run/user/xxx exists | 21:02 |
| amesser | and its properly mounted tmpfs | 21:03 |
| amesser | evbox14: check if libpam-elogind is installed and libpam-ck-connector is not installed | 21:04 |
| amesser | avbox14, srx | 21:04 |
| amesser | JTechno: what means "upgrade kernel" which version, which package? | 21:06 |
| avbox14 | amesser: Both is the case, /etc/init.d/elogind is started, for a short time I see the desktop, then I get 'xinit: connection lost to X server lost', I see some warnings, /run/user/1000/keyring/control file/path not found | 21:07 |
| amesser | then its probably something else | 21:10 |
| amesser | how you start 'x' ? startx? | 21:10 |
| avbox14 | @messmer: .xinitrc in user home directory | 21:11 |
| amesser | OK, can you have a look at ~/.xsession-errors | 21:11 |
| amesser | it should show the last error | 21:12 |
| avbox14 | @amesser: Have to add, starting from ssh and export DISPLAY=:1 works, but not from console, .xsession-errors is empty, I only see warnings like keyring/control | 21:13 |
| amesser | let me try on my notebook | 21:15 |
| avbox14 | amesser, thank you, previous I had installed mate-desktop, then I added budgie-desktop and lightdm and slick-greeter, than I confirmed lightdm | 21:16 |
| amesser | hmm, at least the desktop starts. I dont have a mouse pointer. Not sure if that is correct, but i can see a panel with clock, some symbols and the gnome feet | 21:21 |
| amesser | content of ~/.xinitrc : | 21:21 |
| amesser | #!/bin/bash | 21:21 |
| amesser | exec budgie-desktop | 21:21 |
| amesser | then just "startx" on console | 21:21 |
| avbox14 | @amesser: is this on beowulf or on ascii? | 21:23 |
| amesser | ascii | 21:23 |
| avbox14 | amesser: Ok, I'm on beowulf | 21:24 |
| avbox14 | amesser: xinitrc is exactly the same | 21:24 |
| amesser | ok, wait a second, i'll start my beowulf vm | 21:25 |
| avbox14 | amesser: thank's again, when I have a further look at messages, I too see 'window manager warning: unsupported session type', after it 'bugdie-wm.desktop exited with code 1 | 21:29 |
| amesser | ah, that might be related | 21:31 |
| avbox14 | amesser: Just found out, if you start budgie-panel, desktop is here, but ugly mouse pointer, see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/comments/cbiygi/how_to_get_ubuntu_budgie_on_wsl2/ --- so it does start at least... | 21:33 |
| amesser | just installing it in my vm now | 21:35 |
| amesser | It starts in by beowulf vm, even with mouse-pointer | 21:37 |
| amesser | it looks quite nice. did know that desktop before | 21:38 |
| amesser | s/did/didn't | 21:38 |
| amesser | maybe your config in your home directory is messed up somehow? | 21:38 |
| amesser | could you try creating a new user account and start budgie from that account? | 21:39 |
| avbox14 | amesser, thank for the hint I will try this. | 21:39 |
| amesser | btw, you can find a detailed xorg log in ~/.local/share/xorg/*.log | 21:40 |
| amesser | I'm sorry that I' cant help much more | 21:41 |
| avbox14 | amesser: a new user does not help, but you helped very much, I know now, it must work, thank you and have a nice time. | 21:45 |
| amesser | you're welcome :-) | 21:46 |
| avbox14 | @amesser: I get it closer, I think, in my /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/budgie-desktop.session file, I find a lot of requirements: | 21:55 |
| avbox14 | RequiredComponents=budgie-wm;budgie-daemon;budgie-panel;budgie-polkit;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.A11ySettings;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Clipboard;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Color;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Datetime;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Housekeeping;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Keyboard;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.MediaKeys;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Mouse;org. | 21:55 |
| avbox14 | gnome.SettingsDaemon.Power;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.PrintNotifications;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Rfkill;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.ScreensaverProxy;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Sharing;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Smartcard;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Sound;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Wacom;org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.XSettings; | 21:55 |
| amesser | ok, so probably you need to install some extra packages | 21:56 |
| avbox14 | If I remove budgie-polkit, it does start with bugdie-desktop, will have some more investigations | 21:56 |
| amesser | hmm, budgie-polkit should be provided by budgie-core package | 22:03 |
| amesser | avbox14: could you check if libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0 and libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 packages are installed? | 22:04 |
| amesser | avbox14: could you check if libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0 and libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 packages are installed? | 22:15 |
| amesser | anyway, sorry, gtg now... | 22:15 |
| amesser | good luck :-) | 22:15 |
| avbox14 | @amesser: It helped, but I had to stat /etc/init.d/ligthdm, but now everything is ok, thank you very much | 22:19 |
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