freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2019-11-26

golinux<systemdlete> Or is doing an update enough to get 2.1?00:02
golinuxYes. update and upgrade like you would normally.  You don't have to do anything special.00:02
systemdleteso no dist-upgrade needed -- that would be to go from, say, ascii to beowulf then, right?00:03
tme520Hi there00:05
golinuxI'm not sure actually.  I think it would depend what's in your sources.list.  Can't you check to see what release you're running?  I'd use hardinfo for that/00:05
systemdleteThis is interesting.  My ascii-vm now boots to a blank screen; logging out of the last session left me with a blank/hung screen.  This is in a vbox VM.   Didn't have that problem previously.00:07
systemdletethe dm is slim, btw00:07
systemdleteI have not changed slim options, or any other desktop config recently in that VM.  I did, however, try to force re-install slim to see if that might make the blank boot up go away and bring back the dm00:08
* systemdlete scratches his head, trying to recall if he made any recent mods but nothing comes to mind.00:08
systemdleteI also note that postfix did not come up on the host, also running ascii, when I rebooted the host system 3 days ago.00:08
systemdlete(still looking at that)00:09
systemdleterunning startx from command line (in tty2) works fine.  I get my normal xfce desktop.00:10
systemdlete... switching back to tty7, that screen is still blank and hanging00:11
systemdleteSo something having to do with slim I guess00:11
systemdleteLooks like some issue with AIGLX?  drmDropMaster failure00:13
golinuxLook at the 2.0.0 release notes.  They must be around somewhere . . .00:14
golinuxI don;t have time to dig atm00:14
golinuxWill do so later.00:14
systemdleteI'm up-to-date, which I thought you said brings me to 2.1 ascii?00:14
systemdleteOK, thanks.00:15
golinuxIt should00:15
systemdleteso 2.0.0 release notes would be somewhat non-relevant now?00:15
systemdleteI mean, the VM has worked for a long time... ever since I built that vbox00:16
golinuxI'm really the wrong person to tackle an issue like this.  I'm more of the loibrarian.00:16
systemdletenp, thanks for your input00:16
systemdletegoogling this issue; seems others have encoutnered it also00:17
golinuxThe backend stuff that would affect slim I think are also in the 2.1 release notes.00:17
golinuxI get confused between what's in the release notes and the announcement.00:18
golinuxHere you go.  I'll bbl
golinuxLook for:  - Session management and policykit backends00:19
systemdleteYeah, I found that already.  But why is it saying that "What's new" includes the 4.9.0-9 linux-image?  I only have -7 and -11 images00:20
systemdletenvm.  I read that too quickly.00:20
systemdleteI have -9 and -11, indeed.00:21
systemdleteaha... I see what you are saying.  The Release Notes do include stuff for 2.1, and they do say that Kernel Mode Setting is required... I'll look at that00:25
systemdleteNow it is working again.   Needs_root_rights=yes added to the Xwrapper.conf file, as per release notes.  Thank you for pointing this out.00:33
systemdleteI usually ignore the release notes for most distros because, historically, I have rarely had issues.00:33
systemdleteAfter reboot, however, the problem re-appears.  No DM (i.e., no slim).  the wrapper file still has the change I made.00:36
systemdleteI was wrong.  It DOES come up... after a long recess!00:49
systemdleteit does NOT, however, save my resolution.  In fact, when I switch from full screen to window mode, it goes back to 800x600.  When I boot, I get 800x600 also.00:51
systemdletenomodeset does not help really00:53
systemdleteIt still takes eternity for the DM to appear00:53
systemdletewell, nomodeset DOES restore my resolution in windowed mode.  But it still takes forever to come up.00:56
systemdletedmesg shows that there's a drm error about 60 seconds after the previous messages, and that's about how long the delay is01:10
systemdletenvm my crack about drm error:  That was on my host devuan.01:31
systemdleteIn my VM, when I logout of xfce (the polite way), the screen goes to blank for a very long time (indeterminate)01:32
systemdleteIf I open a window on, say, tty1 and restart slim, the running slim won't die -- stop fails.01:32
systemdletebut slim does restart successfully, and the DM appears in tty7.01:32
tuxd3v#join #devuan-arm01:39
HurgotronI upgraded a rather small install of ascii to beowulf, now ssh logins have a delay of 25 seconds.01:44
Hurgotronauth.log says "Failed to activate service 'org.freedesktop.login1': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)"01:44
HurgotronThe web suggests that restarting systemd-logind helps... but I'm on Devuan. :)01:45
golinuxDoesn't elogind take care that?01:47
golinuxI am no expert but check if you have any of that installed01:47
Hurgotronyes it's installed... should it be running?01:48
golinuxRead the release notes carefully:
golinuxThe answer is probably in there.01:52
golinuxIt definitely isn't in my head.  :D01:53
Hurgotronwell it worked with ascii, without elogind :)01:53
HurgotronBut anyway, I'm on the right track now.01:53
Hurgotronfucking cgroup shit isn't available in my vserver.01:54
tuxd3vhello, does any body has devuan running in the HP Mycloud Home NAS?01:55
gnarfacetuxd3v: i don't have one, but what is the issue you're having with it?01:59
tuxd3vgnarface, mine doesn't run devuan :(02:00
tuxd3vI was thinking in.. see if possible to have devuan running there :)02:00
tuxd3vI believe a propeietary module or something was needed, in the pastm don't know if linux kernel already has all what is needed..02:01
gnarfacetuxd3v: oh, i thought you were just having trouble locating the Samba mount point.  i don't know about actually installing linux onto one.02:01
tuxd3vbut even so, I also  need support from the bootloader.. I am not yet getting the dust out of it, but I will when I have devuan running like it should in my RPi1 B v1.0 :)02:02
systemdleteSo I killed the slim from tty1.  Started it manually, with -d, but now the whole VM seems to be hung.02:03
tuxd3vright now is compiling a kernel... 2 days now, and counting :)02:03
systemdleteQuestion:  Was there any changes in 2.1 having to do with entropy?  Some of the entries re slim delays seem to revolve around entropy issues.02:03
systemdlete(entries = google hits)02:03
tuxd3vsystemdlete, does you have rng-tools installed ?02:04
tuxd3vif so point it to '/dev/urandom' just to ckack the solution :)02:05
systemdleteno, I tried that.  It's a VM, so there's no rng device.  But I did install haveged, which was recommended.02:05
systemdleteno help02:05
systemdletesame problem persists02:05
tuxd3vI tried haveged but got rng-tools back, with '/dev/urandom' in /etc/defaults/rng-tools02:06
systemdletehmmm.  In a VM?02:06
tuxd3vfor know in kernel 5.3 no support for TRNG on Allwinner H6( Orange Pi one plus.. ), so its the only option..02:07
systemdleteAt any rate, running slim from command line, as root, results in a hang (in a VM at least)02:07
systemdlete(I'll try that, thanks)02:07
tuxd3vbut are you sure it has to do with rng?02:07
systemdletewhat has to do with rng?  The long delay or the slim hang?02:08
systemdleteI googled for hits on long delay on slim and some of the hits suggest entropy issues.02:08
systemdletegoogle "slim: waiting for x server to begin accepting connections"02:08
systemdlete(that's the last message I see in slim.log)02:09
gnarfacei think you should be able to get urandom in a VM... it's not a hardware device...02:12
tuxd3vI saw some hist about problems related with glibc 2.38, but we are in 2.24-11 I believe ?!02:13
tuxd3vyeah I sugested puting it in /etc/default/rng-tools02:13
systemdletegnarface, tuxd3v:  I'm trying it now!02:13
tuxd3v hist -> hits02:14
systemdletetuxd3v: DId you try googling what I did, see above02:14
tuxd3vsystemdlete, let us know if that solved the problem02:14
systemdleteoh, I will, believe me...  :D02:14
systemdletestill hangs at boot02:14
tuxd3vyes, I saw one of the first hits about glibc 2.38 on gentoo02:15
systemdleteI use the term "hang" loosely, of course.  Eventually, I do get the login screen02:15
systemdletelook at subsequent hits also02:15
systemdletesome of the suggestions I've seen are to wiggle the mouse a bit during boot... that made me laugh02:17
systemdletereminds me of that Dilbert cartoon where his boss can't get his "laptop" to work...02:18
systemdletehe tells the pointy-haired boss to "turn it over and shake it"02:18
tuxd3vwell, that is in fact related to low entropy02:18
tuxd3vor slow entropy device..02:19
systemdleteFunny, I didn't have slow entropy until now02:19
tuxd3vbecause entropy is got by several ways02:19
tuxd3vI don't have problems with my slim02:19
systemdleteare you in a vm?02:20
tuxd3vI use slim and slimlock...I am just amazed by its simplicity, beauty, and functionality02:20
fsmithredsystemdlete, did you install the full desktop or just the parts you want?02:20
tuxd3vI am in a real server :D02:20
systemdlete:p  real server...02:20
tuxd3vif you want I can share my config with you..02:21
tuxd3vanother thing..02:21
tuxd3vdoes you have a .Xinitrc file02:21
systemdletefsmithred:  Depends what we are talking about here.   This VM was ascii 2.0 and I have updated/upgraded to newest packages which I have been led to believe makes my VM 2.1 ascii now02:21
systemdletewas working under 2.0 --> now not working under 2.1 with (mostly) same software02:22
fsmithredis this the first time you've upgraded since you installed the system?02:22
systemdlete*other software02:22
golinux<systemdlete> Question:  Was there any changes in 2.1 having to do with entropy?02:22
systemdleteno, not by any means.  I have been updating pretty often02:22
fsmithredthen you were already there02:22
golinuxThere is in beoowulf iirc02:22
fsmithredthe only reason to call it 2.1 is because there are updated isos02:22
systemdleteI even tried to force re-install slim.  Which it did, but to no avail.02:23
fsmithredyeah, in beowulf you can get delays with openssh-server02:23
fsmithredmake sure you've got all the right libpolkit packages02:24
tuxd3vhehe, my RPi1 is compiling a kernel for 2 days , and I suspect a 3rd one is comming..02:24
systemdleteI also think that those hits are talking about much newer kernels, like 5.x02:24
golinuxsystemdlete: Do you have a mixed system?02:24
tuxd3vMy "desktop", compiled a kernel in the moments I were here speaking with systemdlete :D02:24
systemdletetuxd3v:  impressive02:24
systemdletegolinux: ?02:25
fsmithredis there any beowulf in your sources.list?02:25
systemdleteshouldnt be02:25
tuxd3vthe thing is.. I doesn't wanted the kernel compiled, just wanted the process to download it, but it downloaded and compiled it without I notice it..02:25
systemdleteThe only VM I've done that in is my beowulf experimental VM.02:25
tuxd3vthis machines are bacoming fast...02:26
tuxd3v bacoming- > becoming02:26
systemdletetuxd3v can have his pie and eat it too02:26
systemdletewhat is a "mixed" system?02:27
fsmithredmixed stable/testing or other02:27
systemdletemixed-up, probably.  But that has more to do with the operator I am afraid...02:27
fsmithredreally, check the polkit shit02:27
golinuxI second that02:27
systemdleteAs I said, my only references to beowulf are in an ascii-cum-beowulf VM I have been experimenting with occasionally.  That's a different VM though.02:28
systemdleteOh what fun. Check the polkit shit...02:28
* systemdlete goes off, not to be seen for years and years02:28
fsmithreddpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|elogind|policykit|polkit|libpam"02:28
fsmithredand past result02:28
golinuxYou have ascii in your sources.list or testing?02:28
systemdleteI can tell you that there is no elogind here, only consolekit, for compat with xfce, as per the instructions in release notes02:29
golinuxoops or dtable02:29
systemdletehold on02:29
golinuxIf you have stable your are pulling debian pkgs from Buster.02:30
systemdletedpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|elogind|policykit|polkit|libpam" --->
systemdletesources.list -->
fsmithredinstall libpam-ck-connector02:31
fsmithredpretty sure02:31
systemdlete /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list is all commented out02:32
systemdleteoh shit02:32
systemdletenever mind those02:32
* systemdlete has finger-checked again02:32
systemdleteright pew, wrong church02:33
systemdletethose are for my host devuan02:33
systemdletedpkg -l |grep etc --->
fsmithredthey're the same02:37
fsmithredand you don't have the problem in the host system?02:37
systemdleteehhh.  No.  Though I've had some OTHER interesting problems lately.02:37
fsmithredone more thing to check. It's unlikely, but maybe some backports packages slipped in.02:38
systemdleteWhen this ascii VM locked up a day or two ago, due to some problem with a web page, it caused the hostkey to stop working, even though I could ssh in from my  testbox to the host02:38
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep bpo02:38
fsmithredwill give some false positives. Look for ~bpo in the version02:39
systemdleteyeah, lots02:40
systemdleteremmina libpolkit02:40
fsmithreddid you intend to install all those from backports?02:40
systemdletenot sure.  Remmina, maybe.  Long time ago.02:41
systemdleteis dovecot coming from backports also?02:41
systemdleteis there a normal one in the other repos?02:42
fsmithredall the ones with ~bpo in the version02:42
systemdleteif not, I don't mind using package called "imap" instead02:42
golinuxBTW is not recommended as there is no us mirror02:42
fsmithredno remmina in ascii02:43
systemdleteah, well, I can probably remove remmina02:43
systemdletefsmithred:  Do you suspect an incompatibility causing this slim issue?02:44
systemdleteOr is your concern elsewhere?02:44
fsmithredit's possible02:44
fsmithredI don't know what all those backported polkit packages do02:45
golinuxI was thinking that02:45
* systemdlete makes remmina go *POOF!*02:45
fsmithredpolicykit-1 in ascii-security is the bpo version02:45
fsmithredtry installing libpam-ck-connector02:46
systemdleteeh... I'm not getting something here.  dpkg -l is still showing dovecot-core and dovecot-imapd but I can't remove them because apt-get thinks they're not installed?02:48
systemdleteI was able to remove remmina no problems02:49
XenguyHey folks, I saw an email about a point release for Ascii, but no updates have shown up yet?  Any ideas why?02:49
XenguyMy mirror is deb.devuan.org02:50
Xenguy(as recommended, I believe)02:50
Xenguysystemdlete: dpkg -r  ?02:51
gnarfacei don't know anything specific about the point release, but sometimes mirror propagation takes a few hours02:51
gnarfacehow long ago was it announced?02:51
Xenguygnarface: Yeah, probably just need to be patient02:51
fsmithredXenguy, the new isos have been up for a couple days02:51
* Xenguy checks the email timestamp...02:51
fsmithredif you've upgraded recently, you're already there02:51
golinuxJust do a normal upgrade and you should be there.  Those pkgs have been arounf for a while so you02:52
golinuxshould have them02:52
systemdletenvm.  Those are just the config files.  I want to save those.02:52
golinuxThat mind meld thing again.02:52
XenguyHrm, so maybe this is just a false alarm02:52
golinuxThere is no alarm02:52
XenguyOK thanks, I'll chill02:52
tuxd3vsustemdlete, have you tested what we spoke above?02:53
golinuxThere is if you are installing for the first time.  The apt security bug fix is in the new isos etc,02:53
se7enI just read the email stating that there is an ASCII upgrade, v2.102:53
se7enWill `apt full-upgrade` upgrade my system?02:54
XenguyMeanwhile, I miss y'all (you too furrywolf) but I've been kidnapped by HR (the thieving bastards!)...02:54
golinuxProbably just a normal upgrade would do.02:54
XenguyIt'll all be over by Wednesday, and a bloody Amen to that02:54
se7enI usually run `apt update && apt full-upgrade` to ensure I don't have broken packages anyway02:55
se7enAlso, any plans to host Libressl on apt?02:55
se7enI'm a bit tired of compiling it, and then in apt openssl often installs and replaces it02:55
fsmithredmake a deb package so it won't do that02:56
se7enWell, I've never made a .deb before so I'm a bit afraid that I'll do it wrong02:57
gnarfacese7en: just use checkinstall.  it is easy02:57
se7enWill look into, gnarface02:57
XenguyThanks gnarface fsmithred golinux , I think I'm good02:58
Xenguy^^ Checkinstall is awesome02:58
gnarfaceXenguy: if you need to be sure, i'd say just check the last few things in your /var/log/apt/history.log against the versions showing up in currently02:59
gnarfacebut yea if you recently ran an "apt-get upgrade" and got packages, you probably have all the updates already02:59
XenguyRight on (just after I kick HR's ass ; -)02:59
Xenguygnarface: I think I just misinterpreted what a "point release" is, so I'm thinking it's all good now03:00
systemdletesorry, tuxd3v, I forgot what that was...03:00
* Xenguy goes up in a puff of smoke...03:01
systemdleteI remember you wanted me to test something, but I think it scrolled off03:01
systemdletefsmithred:  Still working on removing those policykit stuff from backports03:13
systemdleteproblem is, it wants to remove a good chunk of my system with those packages03:14
systemdleteIs there a way to safely downgrade?03:14
systemdleteto pick up those packages from the regular repos03:14
gnarfacenot really, at this point.  downgrades aren't tested upstream.  but if you purge all the backport packages it will probably be ok03:15
gnarfaceif you sucked in the wrong thing though, like say, a newer version of apt that fundamentally restructured your dependency tree.... then there may be no going back03:16
systemdlete"you can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave..."03:17
gnarfaceyea, something like that.  keep backups.03:17
systemdleteoh yes.03:17
systemdleteI do.03:17
systemdleteI backup my backups to the cloud.03:17
systemdleteI'll have to try it at the command line because it wants to remove dbus03:18
systemdleteI'm afraid that'll choke any desktop I'm running like xfce03:18
gnarfaceit's reasonable to expect it may remove some things you will want to re-add after.  just be careful that if it removes the kernel you don't reboot before installing another :)03:18
systemdleteI don't think the kernel was one, no03:19
systemdletebut udisks2 is one it wants to remove03:21
fsmithredsystemdlete, you should not remove them. They are from ascii-security03:21
systemdletebut they are ~bpo03:22
fsmithredapt-cache policy policykit-103:22
fsmithreddon't paste the result. I already know it.03:22
fsmithredDid you try adding libpam-ck-connector?03:22
gnarfacewell, you don't actually need udisks2 to boot03:23
gnarfaceit's for gui drive mounting tools03:23
systemdletewell, I'd replace it as soon as I have the rest removed03:23
systemdleteok, connector is installed.  Reboot?03:24
fsmithredthey're gonna come back on the next upgrade03:24
fsmithredeven if you comment out the backports repo03:24
systemdlete(I have commented out the backports already, and updated)03:24
fsmithredreboot or 'init 1'03:24
systemdleteslim has difficulty shutting down also.  Apparently it cannot stop X03:25
fsmithredI'm not surprised.03:25
systemdletefixed it, fsmithred!  fixed it!03:26
systemdleteslim came right up03:26
* systemdlete tries it again, just for fun03:26
systemdletespoke too soon.03:27
systemdleteafter reboot, back to same fun-and-games...  :(03:27
* systemdlete wonders if anyone else in this channel is having as much "fun" as he is with an ascii 2.1 upgrade in a VM03:29
fsmithredyeah, most of my test systems are in vm03:29
gnarfaceso what did you do!?03:30
systemdleteAs the song suggests, I don't "mess around with (sl)im"03:30
systemdleteI guess I broke it.03:30
gnarfacehehe well that part is reasonably obvious.  the real question is how, specifically?03:31
gnarfacethe trick is being able to retrace your steps03:31
systemdleteIt all started...03:31
systemdleteI had a bad childhood...03:31
gnarfacewoah there03:31
gnarfacenot that far back03:31
fsmithredyou only need to go back as far as root's history03:32
gnarfaceprobably just back to the last thing you installed/upgraded, or maybe the thing right before that03:32
* systemdlete thinks03:32
gnarfacesomething from backports, or a custom kernel maybe?03:32
systemdleteno custom kernels03:32
systemdletebackports, the ones you know about.03:32
gnarfaceany custom builds, 3rd party packages or weird non-stock configuration edits should be suspect...03:32
systemdletenow dovecot I've had some problems with03:32
systemdletewhich makes me wonder...03:33
* systemdlete disables dovecot and reboots...03:33
fsmithredisn't that some fedora thingy?03:33
fsmithrednm, I looked it up03:34
systemdleteidk really03:34
gnarfaceit's in debian but it's kinda messy03:34
systemdleteit was the first imap server I ever worked with03:34
fsmithredI was thinking of dracut03:34
systemdleteoh, no.  not dracut03:35
gnarfaceit's kinda general purpose imap thing but if you start actually trying to generally repurpose it, things can get weird03:35
systemdleteIn fact, I rarely touch tools like those03:35
gnarfaceoh hmm.... imaps starving entropy was a thing i had an issue with i think once...03:36
systemdleteI can tell you this (maybe this would be helpful?):  The last message I see in slim.log is that it is waiting on X to start receiving connections03:36
systemdletewell disabling dovecot helped zero03:36
gnarfaceyea i saw you mention that earlier.  i silently concurred with someone else's hypothesis that it could be a entropy starvation issue03:36
systemdletehow cruel!03:37
fsmithredinstall haveged?03:37
fsmithredI had to do that for live isos that have openssh-server03:37
gnarfacewell, switching to /dev/urandom should have worked too03:37
gnarfacenot securely, but it would have worked03:37
fsmithredwhat do you switch?03:37
systemdleteyeah, right now, though, I have rng-tools because tuxd3v wnated me to try that, pointing to /dev/urandom, etc03:38
systemdletebut I can go back to haveged03:38
gnarfacefsmithred: anything that would otherwise read from /dev/random as a source03:38
gnarfacefsmithred: it's a ugly quick&dirty hack but you basically can just symlink /dev/random to /dev/urandom and you should no longer get any blocking while waiting for entropy03:39
systemdletegnarface:  removed rng-tools03:39
fsmithredfor the live isos I had to make sure haveged started before ssh03:39
systemdletewhat is the entropy being used for anyway?  I mean, why does slim demand it?03:40
fsmithredno clue03:40
gnarfaceyea that's a good question03:40
systemdleteok, installing haveged03:40
* systemdlete usually asks pretty good questions. It's just that the answers to them are kind of, well, you know.03:40
gnarfacedoes slim support network authentication or something?03:41
gnarfacecould it be prepping an encrypted socket for something?03:41
gnarfacei don't even know, but there are very few rational excuses03:42
gnarfaceit could be hanging on a network timeout of some sort too though, unrelated to encryption handshakes...03:43
systemdleteok rebooted with haveged installed and enabled.  Still slow to get to slim03:43
gnarfacehave you timed it yet?03:44
systemdleteI'm wondering if maybe I should just rebuild the system from a 2.1 ISO.  I could restore my home and system files.03:44
systemdleteno.  But I think it takes about a minute03:44
systemdleteI can time it.03:44
fsmithreda minute?03:44
systemdletefrom the moment it goes blank03:44
gnarfaceif it takes the same amount of time every time within less than a second, that is evidence03:44
fsmithredoh that.03:44
fsmithredI thought you meant the install takes a minute.03:45
gnarfaceif it's exactly 60 seconds every time, then it's *almost certainly* a network timeout issue03:45
gnarface(possibly related to DHCP and your MTA)03:45
systemdletei disabled dovecot03:45
gnarfacedovecot isn't the MTA03:45
systemdletenot using dhcp or dhcpcd03:45
fsmithredwhat's in /etc/network/interfaces?03:45
fsmithredauto or allow-hotplug?03:45
systemdlete(doing timing test)03:46
gnarfacesystemdlete: did you disable postfix too as a test?  make sure no alternatives are installed either, like exim4 or sendmail...03:46
systemdletenot yet, doing now, then timing again03:49
gnarfacehmm.  2:10 is long for a network configuration issue based timeout03:49
systemdletewell, some of that might be something else, although 10 seconds for that other thing is kinda long also03:50
systemdletelet me get you another timing...03:50
systemdlete2:10 again03:53
systemdleteand both postfix and dovecot were disabled this time03:54
systemdletewhat if I try a differnt DM?03:54
systemdletejust to see if it might be slim-related?03:54
gnarfaceit's a good idea03:54
gnarfaceyou could try without a DM entirely too03:54
systemdletewell, I've done that.03:54
systemdletethe login comes right up03:54
systemdletesorry, no03:55
tuxd3vgnarface is right, it could03:55
systemdleteI mean, the desktop comes right up03:55
tuxd3vcan you share your '/etc/slim.conf'03:57
systemdleteI don't care if it's not compat with my desktop b/c I'm not actually going to try to login, right?03:57
systemdleteI dont' recall changing it, but I might have03:58
systemdletegnarface:  which DM should we try?03:58
* tuxd3v ... I made a builder so that I could be in charge, clicking the my builder builds kernels without me doing nothing...boring03:58
systemdlete(tuxd3v: Typical Marxian phenomenon, where the worker becomes alienated from his work)03:59
fsmithredlightdm should work04:00
fsmithredI need to sleep.04:01
fsmithredgood luck with it.04:01
systemdletethank you so much again, fsmithred.04:03
tuxd3vfsmithred, good night04:03
systemdleteg'nite, fsmithred04:04
tuxd3vsystemdlete, take my config:
tuxd3vsubstitute tuxd3v by your user to login04:04
systemdletewell, a little delay, but then lightdm appears04:04
tuxd3vmake abkackup of your config, and experiment with this one :)04:04
systemdleteI will try again, to see if it is faithful04:04
systemdletetuxd3v: thanks.  Let me finish this test with lightdm, then I'll try your config.04:05
tuxd3vno problem04:05
systemdletecame right up again (lightdm)04:06
systemdleteone more time, just for certainty...04:07
tuxd3vsystemdlete, solved?04:16
systemdletehold on04:16
systemdletestill getting slim back04:16
systemdleteI will need desktop to copy in your file -- I hate typing04:17
systemdleteIt's coming... it's in its usual 2:10 pause04:17
systemdleteso it is definitely a slim-related issue somehow04:17
systemdletebecause lightdm came right up upon boot04:17
tuxd3vactivate openssh-server then do a scp to inside of the vm ;)04:19
systemdletethis was quick enough04:20
systemdleterebooting with YOUR slim.conf (I saved the one I had though)04:21
systemdletenot looking too good04:21
systemdleteit's hanging there, blank screen again04:21
systemdleteslim IS running, btw, during this pause04:23
systemdleteI can see it by opening tty1 as root04:23
tuxd3vls -l /var/run/slim.lock04:23
tuxd3vcheck if the lock file is there04:23
systemdleteoh, hold on04:24
systemdleteslim had already come up04:24
systemdletelet me try that again04:24
gnarfacesystemdlete: when slim is hanging or right after it comes up, can you ssh into the VM to see if anything weird shows up /var/log/Xorg.0.log at that point or right before hand?04:24
systemdleteyeah, I've got tty1 open on root now04:24
systemdletesure, this reboot04:24
gnarfacesystemdlete: (sorry i didn't answer the earlier question; i was afk but i would have suggested xdm.  still, it looks like lightdm still allowed you to isolate the issue.  now i'm wondering if it's related to the graphical drivers somehow)04:25
systemdleteit is, per many entries from google04:25
gnarfaceinside the VM you should have a lot of control over that though04:26
systemdletethe lock is there, tuxd3v04:26
tuxd3vso its running..04:26
gnarfaceyou should be able to tell the VM to lie about the hardware, which should allow you any choice of drivers...04:27
systemdletex is not running04:27
systemdletenow x is running04:27
systemdletebut slim has not appeared yet04:27
systemdletesuspended AIGLX clients for switch...04:28
systemdleteand slim is up04:28
tuxd3vmy file has a 'default_user        tuxd3v'04:30
tuxd3vthat you need to chamge acordingly with your user..04:30
systemdletewell, the issue seems to be that X is not running and slim is waiting for X to accept connections.04:30
tuxd3v chamge -> change04:30
systemdletemaybe how slim is launching X?04:30
gnarfacesystemdlete: out of curiosity, how much RAM are you allocating to this VM?  it's qemu-kvm?  or vbox?04:31
systemdletevbox 4G04:31
systemdleteand I also checked to see there is ample disk space, swap, etc04:32
gnarfacehmm. 4G should be fine04:32
systemdleteEspecially merely upon boot...04:32
gnarfacei was just thinking maybe if you were assigning it 8MB, Xorg could be hanging just to allocate swap for the video drivers04:32
systemdleteif a boot process ate that much ram, we'd really have issues04:32
gnarfaceyea you should be fine with as little as 64MB of ram though04:33
gnarfacewith most drivers anyway04:33
systemdletethe thing is though... let's remember that lightdm has no such issues I can tell04:33
gnarfaceyea, but not all graphical interfaces are created equally04:33
systemdleteThere were several hits when I googled it indicating issues with the drivers.04:33
systemdlete(I agree, which is why I'm tempted to dump slim at this point)04:33
gnarfaceif for example slim was compositing by default and lightdm was not, then there would be a massive difference in hardware and driver usage just at start04:34
gnarfacebut, that might mean easy fixes include switching video drivers too04:34
systemdleteI did NOT try to log in because I'd have to install the elogind ware and remove the policykit04:34
tuxd3vverify  /var/log/Xorg.0.log, for anny error04:34
systemdleteconsolekit I mean04:34
gnarface[   583.635] (EE) No surface to present from. ???????????????????????04:36
gnarfacenever seen this, but it looks like the source can only be a xorg.conf mistake or a bad driver04:36
gnarfacealso you said it's vbox but this Xorg log is clearly struggling with vmware drivers....04:37
systemdleteYeah, trying to recall...04:38
systemdleteI think for vbox users, they call in vmware drivers for some things.  But I am not clear on that.04:38
systemdletecheck this out:   See last comment04:39
gnarfacei recall that vmware had heavy graphical performance issues if you did not install the vmware guest additions package in the VM itself04:39
systemdletewell, I've had the vbox GAs installed there for some time now.04:39
gnarfacethere might have been permissions settings necessary on the host too04:39
systemdletedk; dc.  I only deal with vbox.  If there's any use of vmware it is not anything I did intentionally.04:40
gnarfaceyea it could be solely a slim bug04:40
gnarfacebut i don't see any conclusive proof one way or another04:40
systemdleteseems like, yes.  Did you see that last comment on that page?04:40
systemdleteno, not conclusive04:40
gnarfacei've never heard of it being a thing that vbox requires vmware drivers... that seems wrong to me, but i have not used either so i don't know for sure04:41
gnarfaceif missing vmware drivers causes performance issues in vmware, and if it's loading vmware drivers and it's *not* vmware, that seems like it could be a source of performance issues as well...04:42
gnarfacethough honestly i wouldn't even expect it to work at that point, so maybe make double sure this is not actually a vmware vm.... you could be following the wrong debugging process entirely....04:42
systemdleteit's Vbox.  I am 100% sure of that.04:44
systemdletemore likely misconfiguration of X somehow.  But, look, this works.  I can log in to my desktop, even after the long pause from slim04:44
systemdletethings work; I haven't noticed any problems operationally.  I can run my desktop all my fave programs, etc04:45
systemdleteat least until yesterday when this started happening.04:45
tuxd3vIt could be on activating 3d aceleration.. a problem with the drivers..04:45
systemdleteI appreciate the suggestion, of course.04:45
systemdleteI have 3d enabled, along with vt-x and nested pages04:45
gnarfacewell misconfiguration of X can include loading the wrong drivers... can you think of any Xorg related changes to the config or drivers before the last time you restarted it, however long it was before that?04:45
tuxd3vgnarface, you have eagle eyes.. you catched the bug very fast..04:45
systemdletecaught what bug very fast?04:46
gnarfacetuxd3v: grep skills ;)04:46
tuxd3vyour bug04:46
systemdletewhat bug is it?04:46
tuxd3vgnarface, hehe04:46
tuxd3vits a bug related with xorg, or drivers of virtual box04:47
tuxd3vI saw a lot of entries about that..04:47
systemdletewell, perhaps.04:47
systemdleteOr it could be slim.04:47
tuxd3vsome even states that it could be when activating 3d aceleration..04:47
systemdleteMaybe it doesn't play well in all configurations of X.  I mean, it generates errors saying it cannot get X to stop04:47
gnarfacewell, it could be a slim bug, but it could also just be slim compositing by default that exposes a driver bug or a mesa bug....04:48
systemdletewell, if so, it is not a problem for lightdm!04:48
systemdletegnarface: +1 absolutely04:48
systemdletesomething in its environment does not like what it is trying to do, even though until just days ago, everything seemed to be fine04:48
systemdletegnarface: the only updates I recall would be a few days ago when I did that last update/upgrade04:49
systemdleteI think it included the -11 kernel, but I'm not 100% sure04:49
systemdletebut I don't remember this long pause until slim presented the login04:49
tuxd3vsystemdlete, truncate the log file and reboot04:50
gnarfacesystemdlete: well, the kernel change would have changed the video driver version at the very least.  that is a conceivable cause of regression, but a mesa update could easily have accompanied it04:50
tuxd3v> /var/log/Xorg.0.log04:50
tuxd3vthen paste the log again, if you can04:50
tuxd3vbecasue it will be clean04:50
tuxd3v a clean bootup04:50
tuxd3vI suspect that somehow it fallback to modesetting..04:51
systemdleteknow what else?  I tried nomodeset.  I recall reading something about new configurations that pass the resolution along to the kernel (KMS?) but it seems this does not always work for everyone, so they have to disable kernel modesetting and let X do it04:51
tuxd3vafter a minute or so..04:51
systemdleteAnd the first time, modeset did seem to clear up the problem, the same way that fsmithred's suggestion did (replacing that driver).  But after that, the same problem kept appearing.04:52
gnarfacethat part makes me wonder if changes to your VMs are even being saved04:52
systemdleteI even tried nouveaux.modeset=0 on a lark because someone suggested it on one of the sites04:52
systemdleteAre you referring to disk images?  or maybe the vbox config's?04:53
systemdleteIf so, then I should be able to make some changes to a few files, reboot and see if the changes are still there.04:53
gnarfacewell, i'm non-speficially referring to both04:53
gnarfacebut i primarily had the disk images themselves in mind04:53
systemdletefile perms... hmmmmm04:54
gnarfacesince a reasonably common configuration is read-only images that spawn disposably to ram, and don't get saved04:54
gnarfacejust make sure you're not doing something like that every time you make a change that disappears the next time you reboot the VM04:54
systemdletefile perms look fine04:54
gnarfacei mean it would be obvious if they weren't being saved.  the timestamps on them wouldn't update when the VM shuts down04:55
systemdleteI very much doubt that.04:55
systemdletetimestamps look up to date04:55
systemdletevirtual disk images have current time on them04:55
systemdletemeta data can only be changed when VM is quiescent (mostly, except for a few fields ones I rarely change)04:56
systemdleteThere was one issue, though, that I am still pursuing  but on my testbox04:57
systemdleteListen to this, gnarface:  A few days ago, I went to open a url I received in an email -- from a very reputable source, though I cannot say the same for their IT work, I simply dk -- and it began loading, the display flashed (when in the full screen mode) and the web page froze, the time in the VM froze, and I could not even break out of it.04:58
systemdleteI could ssh in from another system, so the host was actually OK (I think).04:59
systemdleteI repeated that a couple times before I got fed up of rebooting the host.04:59
systemdleteI am going to see if I can replicate that scenario in a VM on my testbox (different physical machine)04:59
systemdletebtw, when I open the same link in a browser on the host, the page hung, but no impact on the rest of the system.05:00
gnarfacehmmmmm.... does sound suspicious05:00
tuxd3vare you using nouveau driver ?05:01
gnarfacecross-platform graphical vulnerabilities have been identified in the nvidia official driver before.  it's a risk for anything using direct rendering though05:01
systemdleteIf anything, I'm more suspicious of that incident than the current one.  The current one could be another manifestation of the same issue, but it's hardly deadly like the complete lockup one.05:01
systemdletethis is an AMD system.  Not sure on the hw specs atm05:02
systemdleteIts' an ASUS board05:02
systemdleteI'm using the onboard video05:03
tuxd3vyou have amdgpu enabled or you are using another driver?05:03
systemdleteIf I can't replicate that scenario on the other PC, maybe I'll install a spare video card, though it's kind of old05:03
systemdletecoach me on that, and I'll tell you...05:04
systemdlete(I'm no hw guru)05:04
systemdletegnarface:  Sorry I didn't investigate the HW/nvidia side first.05:04
systemdleteJust didn't think of it.  I was thinking of it all as VM and software.  I don't typically look for HW problems.05:05
systemdlete(though I've certainly had some over the many years)05:05
tuxd3vthis is what you should be using.. I mean the package05:06
tuxd3vlspci|grep -i AMD05:07
systemdleteit is def installed05:07
tuxd3v'Integrated ATI Radeon™ HD 3000 GPU'05:07
tuxd3vI don't know if it is supported by amdgpu, I believe that you need to be with radeon driver..05:08
systemdleteit's installed, but does not show in lspci:
systemdletethis board has been around a number of years.  My impression is that it is fairly popular.  So I'd think, by now, there would be well-established support for its hardware configuration.05:10
systemdletebut I could be wrong about it.05:11
tuxd3vI mean run it in the host os05:14
tuxd3vyou are in vmware?05:14
tuxd3v00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: VMware SVGA II Adapter05:14
systemdleteno virtualbox05:14
systemdlete01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS780L [Radeon 3000]05:15
systemdlete(from host)05:15
tuxd3vI don know if it has support for amdgpu05:16
tuxd3vdo a 'lsmod' in the host05:16
systemdletegnarface, tuxd3v:  I recall reading a post about how some people in linux do not like the quality of vbox's video drivers.  That might be why they configure vbox linux systems with the vmware drivers05:16
systemdletelsmod |grep gpu   shows nada05:17
tuxd3vlsmod|grep -Ei "amd|radeon" --color05:18
systemdleteamdkfd, radeon, kvm_amd... yes they are there05:18
tuxd3vyou are using the admkfd, that uses the userspace radeon driver05:21
systemdletemoreover, see:
tuxd3vnot the amdgpu one..05:21
systemdlete" if i purge xserver-xorg-video-vmware, my debian sid vm can't start x, because modesetting-ddx does not work (error: failed to add fb -22)."05:21
systemdleteso it sounds like that vmware driver is essential05:22
systemdletes/is/might be/05:22
systemdletenow I've got mouse hesitation... on my host.  Probably because of the cheap kvm switch.05:26
systemdleteI've had periodic issues with that POS too.05:26
systemdletetuxd3v: So what should I do?05:33
systemdleteor do I need to do anything?05:35
tuxd3vdon't know, but one thing that I would try, would be to disable 3d acceleration in the vm05:36
tuxd3vamd see if that solves05:36
tuxd3valso check the Xorg logs in the host05:36
systemdletegimme a moment05:36
tuxd3vto see if my config is ok05:36
systemdletedisabling 3d did nothing to change the problem05:42
systemdletestill hangs upon boot, sorry.05:42
systemdletelast 1000 lines of host xorg log:
systemdlete(seems to be a limit)05:44
gnarfacedoes it dump those repeated modeline blocks when a VM starts up?05:47
systemdleteon the host?05:47
gnarfaceyea, that last paste was from the host, right?05:48
gnarfaceit's weird that it's dumping all the detected modelines a half dozen times in a row.  does it dump once for each VM you start, or is it actually dumping that block of text 6x times (or whatever it is) every time you start just 1 VM?05:48
systemdletethere is one way to find out... hold on05:49
tuxd3vyeah too many modelines several times05:50
gnarfacei'm hypothesizing the delay being related to some sort of auto-detect loop now05:50
gnarfacei didn't figure that would be the case for a VM but maybe in fullscreen mode ...05:50
gnarfacei dunno05:50
gnarfaceseems suspicious though in light of the other misbehaviors05:51
tuxd3vgnarface, yes it could be05:51
gnarfaceit could be nothing too.  i'm not using any radeon stuff here.05:52
systemdleteok, it looks like those logs were because of yours truly resetting my kvm switch.05:54
systemdletethe problem there, btw, was a weak battery.  I replaced it and seems like things are good again.05:54
systemdlete(for now)05:54
systemdleteeach time I reset or change to a different pc, I was causing that flood of messages in the log05:55
systemdleteinterestingly, though, not one single message upon firing up or shutting down a VM!05:55
systemdleteEven when the VM changes its video, there are no new messages on the host in the log05:55
systemdletethat could have to do with the verbosity the x log is set to05:56
systemdletewell, actually, as regards fullscreen mode, I've been doing all these tests for you in windowed mode, not full screen.05:57
systemdleteFull screen mode: Same thing.05:58
systemdleteHey, I just had this nifty idea.06:06
systemdleteI will stop slim, then launch it in strace, capturing the output for a few minutes.06:06
systemdletesee what it is "Thinking"06:06
golinuxsystemdlete: Are you still slimming around?06:15
systemdletetrying to, yeah...06:15
systemdleteor did you mean "sliming" around?  lol06:16
golinuxThat's a real marathon . . .06:16
golinuxI've never had an issue with slim but some folks do.06:16
golinuxActually I thought of slumming06:16
golinuxSo many OT possibilities.06:17
systemdletewell, I went to the doc today.  I am hitting 180 lbs. that's enough06:17
systemdleteyeah, keep it up golinux and get your self kicked by the mods!06:17
systemdleteyou are a primary offender that way around here...06:18
systemdletethough I'm probably right behind you... like #2 or 306:18
systemdleteright now, I'm trying to strace the damned thing.06:21
systemdleteHmmm.  Looks like slim is epoll_wait'ing on /proc/filesystems, but I'm not sure if I'm seeing this right.06:34
systemdletenope.  Its waiting on slim.lock06:37
systemdletethe last thing that process opens looks like /proc/filesystems, then it does that poll06:45
systemdlete(I think, still looking at this)06:45
systemdleteOne thing is for certain:  slim is waiting (epoll'ing) for some time, waiting on one or more file descriptors.07:03
systemdletebbl.  Food!07:05
TwistedFatewhat is devuan using for config file management?07:15
TwistedFatei removed and purged a package, now the config files will not install when i re-install it..07:16
gnarfacesystemdlete: maybe this is a simple issue with a default setting in /etc/security/limits.conf being starved out by the VMs... i used to have to raise nofile for tf2 servers...07:16
systemdleteno files is 1024.  I *think* that's plenty...07:20
systemdleteI'm now trying to ascertain WHICH files epoll_wait is waiting on.07:21
systemdleteprob easier to examine the source at this point...07:21
TwistedFateguys, how do i force apt or dpkg to reinstall the package configuration as well?07:25
gnarfaceTwistedFate: it's supposed to do that normally ...07:26
TwistedFatei removed a package, purged it and deleted the configs directory, now when i reinstall it, it doesn't install configs too :/07:26
gnarfacesystemdlete: the new default is 8192 i think (what i had to raise it to for the TF2 server)07:26
gnarfaceTwistedFate: were they in a separate package?07:27
systemdletewhen you say "the new default is..." can you explain that please?  thanks07:27
TwistedFategnarface: i'm unsure, i installled nginx and it gave me /etc/nginx and bunch of other directories and configs in that directory07:27
TwistedFatenow they're gone07:28
gnarfacesystemdlete: well it's not that new of a default, but you said it was 1024 which i recall having not been the default for many years now07:28
gnarfaceTwistedFate: you sure you didn't manually copy them from /usr/share/doc/nginx?07:29
TwistedFategnarface: yes, i'm sure, i just manually deleted them07:29
systemdletegnarface:  So, did I miss an update?  Or just some brain cells?07:31
* systemdlete really needs to start smoking...07:32
gnarfacesystemdlete: well probably what happened is you kept your old config file and didn't merge any changes during an update (expected behavior) or else maybe your kernel is super old... but you said this was ascii, right?  so it shouldn't be that old07:32
systemdlete4.9.0-11, yes sir07:33
systemdleteare you telling me yours is set to 4192, but I somehow missed that change?07:33
gnarfacewell the first part i'm sure of.  the second part ... only 80-90%07:34
gnarfacei know for sure i had to increase it for the TF2 server.  i think i also had to increase it for something in wine at one point too.  but i'm less sure that i've heard the default was changed to that later.07:35
gnarfaceit is something easy enough to test though07:35
systemdleteI'm having some wine myself right now07:36
gnarfaceit looks like that config file is part of libpam-modules, maybe verify that you have the ascii version of that just as a sanity check07:36
systemdletesure, I could.  But I think I want to try the getting rid of all things ~bpo first07:36
TwistedFatehow can i check apt/apt-get/aptitude commands history and output?07:45
systemdletegnarface:  Didn't you say that ~bpo packages are from backports?07:54
systemdleteI've still got them even though I've cleared the packages cache (archive in /var) and commented them out in sources07:55
gnarfacesystemdlete: i did say that, but then shortly afterwards fsmithred said something about seeing them in ascii-security for some reason...07:55
gnarfacesystemdlete: which ones are you seeing still, specifically?07:56
systemdletethat's ok07:56
gnarfacehmmm, that's a package they forked so maybe that is on purpose.  any others?07:56
systemdletewell, I meant all the policy-kit related stuff07:57
gnarfaceTwistedFate: check in /var/log/apt/07:57
gnarfaceTwistedFate: aptitude may be separate from that07:58
TwistedFate'apt-get remove nginx && apt-get purge nginx' shows in my 'history |grep purge' but it's not showing in /var/log/apt/history.log for some reason..08:12
gnarfacesystemdlete: there's some way to check if it's hitting the limits.conf limit, but i forget exactly how... you might need to enable some debugging in the logs08:12
gnarfaceTwistedFate: as i understand it, you only purge installed packages.... so it would have probably just ignored the second call or errored it out after succeeding at a regular uninstall of nginx.08:13
Jjp137no you can still purge packages if they left configuration files behind08:23
Jjp137although purge also does remove so you don't need to do both commands08:24
TwistedFateturns out it didn't want to reinstall the configs because of an additional file/package that needed to be purged also09:08
systemdletegnarface:  Is this pursuit -- to determine the cause of the long hang in slim -- a worthy goal for the furtherment of science and human knowledge?  Or could I just install lightdm and be done with it?10:21
gnarfacesystemdlete: oh i thought you had some specific reason to want slim.  like i said, i personally would have long ago given up on graphical login managers entirely for something like this, or switched to something else10:23
gnarfacesystemdlete: if you don't care, what you should do is file a bug report and move on10:23
systemdleteMany already have.  Or at least, this is a well-known issue, per google.  But, yes, I suppose I should do that favor and file it.10:24
systemdleteBut where?  Devuan? Debian? slim?10:24
gnarfacewell i'd first check to see if one is already filed with debian10:24
systemdleteAnd given that I don't know when the issue arose precisely... maybe I would just be adding more clutter to somebody's bug list.10:25
systemdletedebian. OK10:25
r3bootsystemdlete: did you check ~/.xsession-error to see if there's something that's blocking the startup?10:25
systemdletenice one. NO, I hadn't.10:25
systemdletebut, then again, would this show up there?   This is in the display manager, so I would think .xsession-error would not even have been opened yet?10:26
systemdleteWe've been looking at the X org log files in /var/log10:26
r3bootI am missing backlog, so I might have missed something; Avid slim user here (on arch tho)10:26
gnarfacer3boot: he's using it in a VM and it delays startup significantly compared to lightdm10:27
systemdleteI think DM's, generally, are user-agnostic until the point a login is successful.10:27
gnarfacer3boot: (the short version)10:27
systemdletegnarface:  (thank you)10:28
r3bootgnarface: check, thnx10:28
systemdleteof course, I'll also have to replace the policyshit packages with elogind10:31
systemdletewhy does the screen flash just as the lightdm login appears?  I noticed that with slim also.10:42
systemdleteanother question:  fwanalog ran for the first time in the same VM as we were looking at w/r/t slim.  However, I don't remember actually installing it, and neither does dpkg.* or any of the files in /var/log/apt.11:52
systemdleteI DO recall *considering* it for helping to track down some mysterious packets.11:52
gnarfacehmm, not sure about that11:53
systemdleteI *may* indeed have installed it.  But I would think it would be recorded somewhere.11:53
gnarfacewhat about /var/log/dpkg.log ?11:54
systemdletesee ^^^11:54
systemdleteno, nothing there either11:54
systemdleteI did:  zgrep fwanalog /var/log/dpkg.* /var/log/apt/*11:54
gnarfaceis there a /var/log/aptitude?11:55
gnarfacedoes it show up in dpkg -l ?11:57
gnarfacealready there with the base system maybe?11:58
systemdleteno way.  I know that for a fact.  It was not there previously (yesterday).  If it had been I'd been getting reports daily.  This is the first time.11:58
systemdleteLike I said, I was considering installing it to see if it could help me get more info on some packets being logged.11:59
systemdleteBut I don't recall if I actually installed it or not last night -- I was having so much fun with these other issues.11:59
systemdleteI just re-installed gufw and it installs the policykit crap again12:02
systemdleteso now I've got elogind AND some policykit stuff also.12:02
systemdleteThis is just too much fun.12:03
systemdleteSystem (VM) is still bootable, login-able, desktop-able12:07
systemdleteSo I guess it's OK, even with both.12:08
systemdleteseriously, I am really ready to just rebuild this whole mess from scratch and restore my user files12:10
systemdleteI realize that's the sleazy way out of this, but these package dependencies are driving me batty12:10
systemdletegufw depends on policykit prob because it needs to authenticate the user running it.12:11
systemdlete(but it must be welded on to the method this way?)12:11
systemdleteenough for one night.  bbl -- thanks to all who helped.12:13
gnarfaceapparently, but systemd could have something to do with it, i don't know.12:13
systemdletethx, gnarface.  Time for sleep now.12:13
dbristowSooo close to finishing downloading the 2.1 torrent.  I think I am still lacking about 10M of the files.21:55
dbristow99.9% done21:56
dbristow23.10G out of 23.11G21:56

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