freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2019-12-05

* Digit wonders about ungoogled-chromium in devuan... and if the chromium package can be ungoogled, or if need go off-repo to get07:58
* Digit new to chromium / ungoogled-chromium, just a curiosity07:59
xrogaanwhich is better to backup a disk before resizing: rsync or dd?08:26
xrogaanalso, is there a way to start user daemons at the start of a user session?08:27
xrogaanwith fluxbox, you can just drop a line in the init file.08:27
gnarfacexrogaan: rsync is faster but dd can also preserve partition structure08:31
gnarfaceand filesystems08:32
gnarface(whereas rsync will only preserve contents therein)08:32
xrogaanno the partition needs to go08:32
gnarfacefrankly though from years of experience i recommend tar because you don't want your backup system to be complicated.  you want it linear and based on software that hasn't changed much in 30 years08:32
xrogaanI have a very old partition thingy, and I need to make / bigger. To do that I have to remove swap and reduce /home08:33
gnarfacewell, you might still want the disk image backup to contain the original partition structure just so you can go back to it in case you hose it somehow trying this08:33
xrogaanso, tar the content, resize, untar?08:33
gnarfacetar content, resize.08:33
gnarfaceyou shouldn't need the backup unless something went wrong08:34
xrogaanbut isn't resizing destructive in nature?08:34
xrogaanI meant for the /home partition that will get reduced.08:34
gnarfaceno, only if you screw it up08:34
gnarfacebut there are important caveats you should know if you're asking this08:34
xrogaanoh, and I have a weird thing though.08:35
xrogaani have an extended partition, containing both swap and /home08:35
gnarfaceyou're gonna use gparted to do the resizing?08:35
xrogaanmost probably yeah08:35
gnarfaceok, it should protect you but had a early history of not doing so08:36
gnarfaceso let me tell you how to cover your ass08:36
xrogaanwait a second first :)08:36
xrogaanI believe I need to remove the extended partition in order to resize /, which is outside of it.08:36
gnarfacemaybe, i don't know for sure without seeing it08:36
gnarfaceyou DO have to look in the menu of gparted to find the panel where it shows you filesystem support status08:37
gnarfacemake sure it includes resize and shrink for the relevant filesystems08:37
gnarface(it wasn't always smart enough to stop you if you tried it on a filesystem that wasn't supported)08:37
xrogaan12GiB as root isn't nearly enough nowadays.08:37
xrogaanWas plenty 10 or so years ago.08:37
gnarfacethe second thing you need to know is just to not shrink the partition to smaller than the data inside it.08:38
gnarface(it might succeed and truncate your data)08:38
gnarfacethe third thing you need to know is that if the partition is fragmented, it still might not be safe to shrink to the size of the contained data, becasue some of it may be near the end of the filesystem08:38
gnarface(that's where the tar then untar trick comes in handy; that's a quick&dirty way to defrag any filesystem from linux)08:39
xrogaanisn't ext4 fragmented by default?08:39
gnarfacei think that's all you really need to know, but ask questions if anything is vague08:39
xrogaanby nature, the filesystem distribute the files all over the disk08:39
gnarfaceyes, journaling filesystems are "fragmented by nature" you would say08:39
gnarfaceas in, the journal mitigates the cost of fragmentation so it is not a concern.  that's why disk defrag isn't a linux tool that exists08:40
gnarfacebut again - tar then untar will do the trick08:40
gnarfacegparted is *supposed* to be smart enough to just warn you and refuse, or relocate the data as necessary08:40
gnarfacethese days anyway08:40
xrogaanbut I still need to remove the extended partition, as shown in the screen shot :)08:41
gnarfacebut it's one of those features it has had enough of a history of regressions on that you definitely want to back up your data first to a separate physical disk08:41
gnarfaceoh, can you put the screenshot in imgur?08:41
gnarfaceactually maybe i can simplify further without that:  you don't need an extended partition at all on the MSDOS partition table format unless you have more than 4 partitions08:41
xrogaani don't have a cli tool for imgur08:42
xrogaanmaybe i do08:42
xrogaanno, I don't08:43
gnarfacehow about
gnarfacesupposedly it can work with curl08:44
gnarfacesome day i'm gonna have to put up my own drop box so that i don't have to have the burden of personally validating the domain of everyone else's favorite one08:46
xrogaanwhat's wrong with catbox?08:46
gnarface... even though that is objectively making the problem worse08:46
gnarfacei don't know what's wrong with catbox, maybe nothing.  the point is just that i'm not in the mood to risk it right now.  it's nothing personal; things have been weird.08:47
xrogaanwant me to xdcc the file to you?08:47
gnarfacemaybe you can just copy&paste the fdisk view of the data to me in a /msg?  i'd have to poke a hole in my firewall for xdcc08:47
xrogaanIt's just a png, wget it and it should be fine.08:49
gnarfaceif you have 4 or fewer partitions, or 5 partitions but one of them is the extended partition, you can seriously just omit it though08:49
gnarfacethe only complication is then they'll renumber08:49
gnarfacebut if you're resizing them the UUIDs change anyway, so if you're mounting by UUID you have to edit your fstab either way to clean up after this08:49
xrogaantermbin isn't too weird for you?08:52
gnarfacecome on why does everyone have to test my resolve on this?08:52
gnarfacei'm really not trying to be difficult08:52
gnarfacejust paste me what fdisk says instead in /msg08:52
gnarfaceit's plain text and should still carry the necessary data08:53
gnarfaceopen the disk with fdisk, (fdisk [device]) then just hit the "p" key to print the partition table08:53
xrogaanI'm still puzzled as to why you prefer imgur over anything else08:53
gnarfacenothing specific other than that it's widely enough known that it is a bigger liability for them to hack me than for me to get hacked by them08:54
xrogaanwhat are you, the CIA?08:55
gnarfaceyou know it's funny, i've been accused of that before08:55
gnarfaceusually by employers who are trying to pull a fast one08:55
gnarfacebut no, i just notice things08:55
gnarfaceincidentally, the /msg you sent me stopped short of the actual partition table data08:56
xrogaanyeah, because flooding is bad08:56
gnarfacethe last line i got was "Device     Boot     Start       End   Sectors   Size Id Type"08:56
gnarfaceyou got a flood protect warning from sending me a /msg?08:57
gnarfacei thought they weren't enforcing that in private communications, i've never had anyone complain about that before08:57
gnarfacei don't mind if you flood my /msg08:57
xrogaanah, no, because / is a command08:57
gnarfacejust add a whitespace before it08:57
xrogaan/dev < dev not recognized08:57
gnarfaceit will choke on "/dev" but it will pass " /dev"08:58
xrogaanYou know what, it's fine. I'll delete he extended partition and untar the backup.08:58
gnarfacei *think* i've already told you everything you need to know08:59
gnarfacei just don't have any idea how well you read it08:59
gnarfacethat's really why i asked to see the screenshot in the first place08:59
gnarfacei was just trying to double-check your work08:59
gnarfaceyou know, before you make a mess08:59
gnarfaceresizing partitions can get messy09:00
xrogaanyou can still see it, you chose not to because of patterns. Thanks anyway :)09:00
gnarfacehey you're the one who can't send a /msg ...09:00
gnarfacethere's only so far past the mid point i'm willing to go09:00
xrogaanI spent more time trying to send the list of partitions than reading your recommendations, which were useful btw.09:01
gnarfaceas long as you made the backup first then you'll be fine either way09:02
gnarfaceoh, and ext* filesystems resize really slow.  don't panic if it is taking a long time (many hours)09:03
xrogaanwell, I can bypass that with a delete and recreate09:08
xrogaananyhow, for the next people trying to test your resolve, you might want to come armed of a list of pastebin/file hosts09:08
xrogaanAnd if you're willing, there are some software I'd like to try in order to get around the hosting issue.09:09
xrogaanMight not be to your taste because of your firewall though.09:09
gnarfacewhat software?09:09
xrogaan ?09:10
gnarfaceit's in the repo09:10
gnarfacebased on python apparently09:10
gnarfacewhat's it got over ssh tunnels?09:10
xrogaanyou setup a wormhole code, then send a file to that code.09:11
gnarfacea GUI or something?09:11
xrogaancli mostly09:11
gnarfacedoes it rely on a hub server or is it p2p?09:11
xrogaanyou might be able to setup your own relay though09:13
gnarfacehmm, they're not using cookies, that's something to their credit...09:13
xrogaanor I could just mail you the damn png09:13
gnarfaceugh, websockets09:13
gnarfacei have distrust of that09:13
xrogaanthere is also that ipfs thing09:13
gnarfaceheh, yea you could have just emailed it to me but oddly enough that's the part where everyone else tends to back out09:14
xrogaaninterplanetary file system09:14
xrogaanNo, I backed out when you asked me to reformat the output of fdisk to be irc friendly. That's just stupid. I could also use a pastebin of your choice, so long as it supports pastebinit09:15
gnarfacei really didn't think it would choke on the paste of that09:15
gnarfacelemme test something....09:16
gnarfaceDisk /dev/sdb: 931.5 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors09:16
gnarfaceUnits: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes09:16
gnarfaceSector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes09:16
gnarfaceI/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes09:16
gnarfaceDisklabel type: dos09:16
gnarfaceDisk identifier: 0x0f56d2ac09:16
gnarfaceDevice     Boot Start        End    Sectors   Size Id Type09:16
gnarfacehmmm, they do break lines i see09:17
gnarfaceyea, sorry about that09:17
gnarfacefor the benefit of anyone else who was wondering, i did verify that gparted can do that.  it can copy a logical partition out of the extended partition10:29
gnarfaceyou do have to make space first, but it works10:30
nemowhat kernel is beowulf going to use on release?14:36
gnarfaceit'll be the same kernel as debian is using, i assume14:39
ham5urgI'm using devuan and trying to install an USV, APC Smart 750 (750smt)16:04
ham5urglsusb is fine and showing    Bus 001 Device 008: ID 051d:0003 American Power Conversion UPS16:05
ham5urgBut I got an error from apcuspd like:16:05
ham5urgCommunications with UPS lost16:05
masonham5urg: I always have to change the config on every install. How are you specifying the line?16:05
masonham5urg: In particular, what's your UPSCABLE set to?16:06
masonham5urg: Here, I have UPSCABLE usb, then further down, UPSTYPE usb, and DEVICE without anything after it - empty.16:07
ham5urgI did not change a lot, as apcusvd.conf is preconfigured for USB.16:07
ham5urgUPSCABLE usb16:07
ham5urgok, device has /dev/ttys016:08
ham5urgI will change that16:08
masonclear that out16:08
masonand UPSTYPE ?16:08
ham5urgit was DEVICE16:10
ham5urgmason, you are right16:10
masonham5urg: Good. Glad it's working.16:11
tuxd3vfsmithred, hello, does you are experiencing any problems bootstraping in [ host ]  Ascii to create [ target ] Beowulf rootfs ?16:59
yann-kaeligHi. Anyone else has an issue with gpg --gen-key and devuan ascii 2.0.vdi .  Look like it's stuck during the prime generation17:00
tuxd3ventropy problem?17:01
yann-kaeligno idea. I'm waiting but this is now more than 5 minutes17:04
fsmithredtuxd3v, I haven't done a manual debootstrap lately, but I have build beowulf isos with live-sdk, which uses debootstrap17:30
fsmithredin ascii host17:31
tuxd3vfsmithred, thanks a lot17:33
fsmithredwhat problems you having?17:33
tuxd3vYour isos are created in same host for same target arch, I believe?17:34
tuxd3vI having problems Cross-debootstraping17:34
fsmithredhost is amd64, and I build that and i38617:34
tuxd3vI am in host x86_6417:34
tuxd3vand I build for severam ARM targets17:35
tuxd3vbut in ascii all plays nice17:35
fsmithredI think arm might be trickier. At least i386 will run on 64-bit hardware17:35
tuxd3vwhen in host ascii and trying to Cross-debootstrap to arm.. it gives me several errors related with qemu17:36
tuxd3vand Glibc17:36
tuxd3vI will have to finda option for it..17:36
tuxd3vAnyway, thans a lot, with that, I already eliminated some variables...17:36
fsmithredI don't know enough to help17:36
tuxd3vI mean reduced the number of locations were problems could be17:37
tuxd3vI already helped! thanks a lot!17:37
tuxd3vI -> you17:38
amnt24Why does Beowulf have an older version of openvpn (2.3.10-1 vs 2.4.0-6) than Ascii?20:44
golinuxamnt24: Because beowulf hasn't been officially released yet.  Still much to do20:59
rhYtestHas anybody here successfully run any version of ProxMox on Devuan?22:14
rhYtestThere are instructions for building on Wheezy, would that theoretically work for Devuan?22:17
rhYtestAnd odd follow up question:  Is there still development of refracta?  And which version of that should I use atm, or should I not?22:19
fsmithredyes, refracta is still alive22:34
fsmithredthere are 9.1 isos (ascii)22:35
fsmithredand there are some preliminary no-X beowulf isos22:35
fsmithredrhYtest, ^^^22:35

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