freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2019-12-13

systemdlete2So research is telling me that there really is an xfce4-polkit package but maybe we don't have it in the repo.00:20
EHeMSECURITY: Once again security updates appear to have broken, this time while most packages from src:git got their updates, git is missing.00:21
systemdlete2It's also telling me it might be time to switch to a different desktop to avoid this headache.  OTOH, I like xfce (and always have) and this is -- as I said -- a minor nuisance.  Not many other issues I can think of.00:21
AliceQuuxgnarface especially: I'm pleased to report that I stumbled across a solution to my 'no system beeps' problem...14:04
gnarfaceoh?  what was it?14:04
AliceQuuxWhile playing around with various 'auto-mute' on/off combos in alsamixer on the off chance that they'd make a difference, I decided to investigate the 'loopback' control even though I read in the dim & distant past that this is used 'only' for recording sound card output14:05
AliceQuuxEnabled that, muted the controls that it caused to hiss (unused/non-present mikes etc.), and bingo!  I guess it makes sense that it might tie in with pass-through of beeps between bits of the system14:06
AliceQuuxThis isn't the same as what I did in the past.  It's actually better:14:06
gnarfacehmm, so you needed "Loopback" on14:07
AliceQuuxwhatever I did before gave me beeps only when I didn't have audio out (to headphones or hi-fi) plugged in14:07
AliceQuuxYeppers14:07
gnarfacethat's weird, i wonder if it's expected behavior for that hardware...14:07
gnarfacenot the beeping to internal speaker vs output, but i mean the part about loopback needing to be on14:08
AliceQuuxMight be needed for passing the beep through.  From what I'd read previously, I thought loopback was mostly pulsey (I'm decidedly non-pulsey) for a start14:08
AliceQuuxYep, got it.  No idea, but my trawling the Interwebz leads me to believe that this should be included in the list of the usual things to check, just in case, alongside 'Is pcspkr blacklisted?', 'Does your inputc specify "audible"?', and my favourite frequently asked question: "Why would you want those annoying beeps anyway?"14:09
AliceQuux*inputrc14:09
gnarfacehmmm, enabling "Loopback Mixing" here doesn't have any effect on the beep - it only comes out of internal speaker either way... but, different hardware, different software...14:10
AliceQuuxI'm just glad I thought to try it before tearing more hair out.14:11
gnarfaceyea that's a good catch14:11
AliceQuuxAbout 15 years ago, there was something called, IIRC, the Linux Sound FAQ that went through various possible issues in a sensible order.  The proliferation of hardware types, use cases, system forks, etc. probably would make such a document hugely unwieldy, but it would be nice(TM).14:12
AliceQuuxThere are probably three other people in the world who could benefit from this particular bit of info, but it's a good catch from where I'm sitting14:13
AliceQuuxOne fewer thing to worry about.  Next challenge is going to involve which packages do and don't need to be pinned if I want a coherent system that doesn't end up featuring too much Progress and not enough coping with my wine set-up.14:15
AliceQuuxBut that's not a Friday task14:15
gnarfacei recommend blocking the avahi daemon and pulseaudio14:19
gnarfaceyou'll lose Bonjour compatibility, i don't know if that's useful or not14:19
gnarfacewell, only if you have Macs anyway14:20
gnarfaceonly maybe14:20
gnarfaceyou might want to block cups and sane too but i just turn them off so they don't launch at boot14:21
AliceQuuxAt least with moderately recent Debian custom installs, tons of things keep trying to pull avahi into package management, and cups is listed as a dependency entirely too often.14:33
* AliceQuux sits on her hands to avoid a dependency rant14:34
AliceQuuxIt's easy to shrug, open those attack surfaces, and follow the slippery slope all the way to systemd14:35
djphAliceQuux: hahahaha14:36
AliceQuuxWell, that's the kind of thing I tell myself whenever I feel like shrugging14:42
AliceQuuxand letting whateverd install (or just enabling all the JavaScript etc.)14:43
yann-kaeligHi. I have a package source named mysource-v0.0.tar.bz2 and  Idon't understand the explanation to override this format with mysource-0.0 . I tried dh_make  -p mysource-0.0 -f ../mysource-v0.0.tar.bz2 but that doesn't work. The man page doesn't help and I can not find an explanation from the web.15:22
djphyann-kaelig:  what are you trying to do?15:25
yann-kaeligdjph: Hi, This is exactly what  I done >  Inside my build directory, mkdir oblibs/0.0.4.0 then I extracted oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2, next cd oblibs-v0.0.4.0 and now I want to execute dh_make -f ../oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2 but  I can't.  " For dh_make to find the package name and version, the current directory needs to be in the format of <package>-<version>.  Alternatively use the _-p flag using the format <name>_<version> to override15:30
yann-kaeligit"  So I tried dh_make -f ../oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2 -p oblibs-0.0.4.0 but that do not work15:30
djphyann-kaelig: it sounds like you're doing something very wrong15:31
djphshould be something like ... (1) mkdir program && cd program // (2) get the tarball into the current working directory // (3) extract the tarball // (4) cd into the resulting program-version directory // (5) dh_make...15:34
yann-kaeligdpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file package/deps.mak, use --include-removal to override17:58
yann-kaeligwhere am I suppose to add this option ?17:58
poontangmessiahHello, i was wondering if is it possible to upgrade kernel above 4.9? is so, how?18:00
EHeMThe backports archive has 4.19.18:07
poontangmessiahEHeM: Thank you18:08
EHeMMeanwhile I'm left wondering why so few people who care about computer security followed Devuan...18:09
poontangmessiahWhat's the point if you can't even install your wireless drivers.18:13
huhhYou guys really should include OBS installed on one of the distros... it is hell trying to install this junk and get it working, it defaults to 0.0.1, and I've tried everything18:18
huhhfirst Linux distro to get used by a popular streamer is going to take over the world18:18
huhh...and don't use wicd, it is junk.  Network Manager lets you use your ethernet port, to share your wifi, piece of junk wicd has no such option18:20
poontangmessiahhuhh: connman18:21
huhhnow I have to install connman, to have basic connection sharing?18:23
golinuxhuhh: Devuan's priority is to offer an OS without systemd entanglements not to include everyone's favorite app for this or that.18:23
huhhIt's not my favorite app, it is an essential app with which word of mouth about Linux can spread.  I see why people use windows18:24
golinuxpoontangmessiah: Of course you can install wireless drivers, or so I've heard.  I've never had a need for a wireless connection.18:24
golinuxhuhh: Essential in your opinion.18:25
huhhI am using wireless, NM makes it easy to share my internet through ethernet port, wicd doesn't18:25
poontangmessiahgolinux: many drivers require kernel versions above 4.9 to be built and installed18:25
golinuxNew hardware is always an issue18:25
poontangmessiahby the way how the hell do you get by without wireless?18:26
huhhIt's not new hardware, it's very old. Network manager let's me share my wifi to other computers.18:26
huhhwicd is junk18:26
golinuxWhen I buy "new" hardware, it's never cutting edge.  Learned that lesson early on.18:26
golinuxpoontangmessiah: No mobile devices.18:27
huhhit's frustrating because Devuan is one of the best distros for stability, yet uses the piece of junk wicd and you can only install ancient version of OBS18:29
huhhImagine if pewdiepie installed this and decides Linux is junk... now imagine if you include OBS-studio latest version in one of the installs and it works to stream right away.18:31
huhhThe first distro that does that is going to rule the world18:32
poontangmessiahhuhh: since when any distro other than ubuntu/RH/fedora/MJ cared about PR.18:32
huhhthose distros suck... except Ubuntu, it is stable and they at least use network manager not stuck with wicd18:34
poontangmessiahnetwork manager is trash imo18:34
huhhI want to replace Ubuntu studio and Devuan is the one that passes my tests when I try to make it crash18:35
MinceRnetworkmangler is worse than wicd18:35
nemoMinceR: it's got a friendlier applet UI though18:35
nemowhich is why my SO liked it18:35
huhhwicd is trash, you can't share wifi to ethernet18:35
nemowell that's true.18:36
nemonot the trash bit, but the sharing18:36
MinceRnetworkmangler is trash, it depends on cancerd18:37
MinceRand automatic connection never works18:37
nemoMinceR: does it really? I thought that was still optional18:37
nemoMinceR: well in all fairness automatic never seems to work for me in wiccd either ☹  even if I have autoconnect checked - but I may be missing something18:37
MinceRwell, its debian package depends on libpam-systemd18:37
nemoMinceR: oh. that18:37
MinceR(it also depends on polkit, which is also trash)18:37
nemoNefertiti: I thought that was more a debian packaging fail18:38
nemoer18:38
nemoMinceR:18:38
MinceRthere was one case in autoconnect does work in wicd18:38
MinceRiirc it's resume from suspend18:38
huhhso everything sucks basically18:38
huhhsomeone said I could install Network Manager in Devuan, but it uses systemd?18:40
nemointeresting. there was a request to make libpam-systemd less tightly coupled to systemd-sysv but was closed wontfix even though it seemed doable18:40
nemomaintainer refused18:40
nemohttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=935304  if I read this correctly18:40
nemowonder if devuan could repackage/stub libpam-systemd18:41
MinceRhuhh: you could try and find out what happens18:41
MinceRafaik devuan bans systemd from being installed, so apt won't even offer to break your system18:41
nemoyeah. was thinking more a libpam-systemd stub rather than actual systemd18:42
nemobut I guess that's unreasonable18:42
nemowould have to be a reimplementation like eudev18:42
nemoand not enough justification for it18:42
MinceRfunny discussion in the bug18:42
nemoyes18:42
nemorun systemd as non-pid 1 O_o18:43
MinceRwell, libpam-systemd probably does some cancerous bullshit18:43
MinceRi like openbsd's approach to wifi18:45
MinceRipconfig+dhclient does it fine on the command line18:46
MinceRsimple, doesn't crash18:46
MinceR(unlike wpa_cli)18:46
nemoMinceR: well, those of my family members on linux kinda need a commandline18:47
poontangmessiahanyone here remember a bash script that does most things a netman does except with basic linux commands?18:47
MinceRnemo: you mean a gui? :>18:48
yann-kaeligwell, I'm stuck.  When I execute dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot  I am missing this file > package/deps.mak: No such file or directory and I don't understand why18:50
nemoMinceR: er. that one yes 😉18:50
nemoMinceR: I'm sick and distracted which is a bad combo18:50
* nemo hunts up some coffee18:50
MinceR:)18:50
* unixman shoots some coffee for nemo 18:52
nemoMinceR: I was curious if gentoo was offering it, since if any distro might have the flexibility it would be them. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NetworkManager#Service18:53
nemoMinceR: I don't know if this actually means it can build without libpam though18:53
MinceRgentoo also supports systemd though18:54
nemoMinceR: sure.  but you can flag it off18:54
MinceRoh, openrc18:54
nemoMinceR: I do have a gentoo system with a hard mask on systemd being disabled18:55
MinceRthen maybe it is possible to build it without links to the malware18:55
MinceRnot that i would want to -- networkmangler is no better than other poetteringware18:55
nemoMinceR: it might be just an upstream packaging thing with debian18:55
nemoin which case someone would have to maintain it and clearly MinceR doesn't want to.  But huhh cares deeply about it *and* devuan, so maybe he can submit patches ☺18:56
MinceR:>18:56
MinceRgood luck with getting an attempt to allow users to run something other than cancerd past the ibm moles at debian18:56
nemoMinceR: well wouldn't need to18:56
nemojust add NetworkManager to the devuan package list18:56
nemoMinceR: with huhh providing the requisite deb-src patches18:57
MinceRoh, i thought you meant getting something done with debian18:57
nemomaybe he can start by packaging it for his own system ☺18:57
nemonaw.  just trying to get someone involved18:57
nemoMinceR: I've been contributing code for a decade to Hedgewars now, and it all started with a user complaint18:57
nemo"Oh, you don't like X? How about you fix it"18:57
nemo…  "ok"18:57
MinceR:>18:57
nemoX led to Y and Z and few thousand others...18:58
huhhDevuan, the best and most reliable OS that I hate18:58
nemohuhh: just saying. if there's stuff that bugs you in FOSS, best thing to do is jump in and lend a hand18:58
nemoesp w/ minor projects/distros18:58
nemoand Devuan is in a more fragile situation than most18:59
nemoMinceR: gentoo is my fallback plan if the votes go the wrong way18:59
nemoMinceR: hm. I also checked just in case MATE had done a fork, but can't find one. oh well.19:10
MinceRinteresting19:11
nemothat is a MATE nm-applet that might require a MATE network-manager that might require a fork taht could be systemd optional ☺19:11
nemono hint of anything like that anywhere though19:11
nemohrm. who maintains nm-applet anyway19:12
nemoprobably some gnome person19:12
golinuxnemo: Have you checked http://hezeh.org/ ?19:17
nemogolinux: you've mentioned it yes...  I hadn't used it on my laptop yet.19:17
nemogolinux: but don't think he's got a network-manager package anyway?19:18
golinuxMight be newer version there than in the repos19:18
nemohttp://hezeh.org/packages/?dir=pool/main/n  it'd be here no?19:18
nemogolinux: MATE doesn't seem to have any nm-applet/network-manager forking anyway19:19
golinuxI have no idea.  Just know that he does Mate for Devuan19:19
huhhhsomeone mention network manager?19:19
nemothat said,  it doesn't seem like network-manager is explicitly gnome dependent19:19
nemohttps://gitlab.freedesktop.org/groups/NetworkManager/  not maintained by gnome19:19
golinuxIt is in our repos iiuc19:20
nemogolinux: couldn't find it in a package search19:20
huhhhIf there is a version of devuan with NM instead of wicd I would like to try19:20
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=network-manager&release=any19:20
huhhhNetwork Manager works great and has better features than wicd19:21
golinuxHave at it!19:21
MinceRhuhhh obviously received a different networkmangler from the ones i've used :(19:21
golinuxDifferent strokes . . .19:22
MinceRkinky19:22
nemogolinux: hm... I think network-manager is a name collision which explains my confusion19:22
nemonot sure though19:22
nemohttps://packages.debian.org/sid/network-manager-gnome19:23
huhhhI want to share my wifi connection with my raspberry pi through ethernet, and not have to set up dhcp server or whatever the headache is19:23
nemonetwork-manager-gnome vs network-manager19:23
huhhhNM lets you share to other computers19:23
nemohuhhh: for the situation you're talking about an entire gui environment seems way overkill19:25
nemohuhhh: this feels to me like a case for a few bridging / iptable rules19:25
MinceRmaking a wifi access point is possible without networkmangler19:26
MinceRi did it back when i did my experiment on mobile computing with rpi+tablet19:27
nemohttps://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/can-i-use-iptables-to-share-a-wireless-connection-4175489936/  something like this discussion. dunno19:27
nemoit's not something I'd attempt to instruct someone in without wifi and cat5 connectinos to test with19:27
nemoand unfortunately the machine I'm on now, while it does have access to both, is currently running an adhoc wireless network for the office because our router is crap19:28
nemo(I'm relaying wireless to cat5 for all the iphones/android/lazy laptop users ☺ )19:28
huhhhI can make an access point too, that's not what I want.  I want to share the wifi connection from this computer to other computers, without having a computer science degree19:32
nemoI'm aware what you meant19:32
nemothus the link19:32
nemohuhhh: I'm noting that I can't give you (and verify) the few probably simple rules because I'd want to test it here to make sure I got it right19:33
nemoand I can't do that because, as noted, I have my machine devoted to being an AP, and it can't do both at once19:33
nemohuhhh: BTW, making an AP, probably mildly more complicated than what you're asking above19:33
nemowhich is just setting up a machine as a gateway over two networks19:34
nemosomething people have been doing with linux machines for decades19:34
huhhhnow Devuan is crashing on me(system freeze) after using kdenlive19:45
huhhhI guess I need Nvidia drivers, would have installed them by now but it is a pain... should be an option to install Nvidia drivers at install19:46
nemohuhhh: so, for stuff like that you really should just follow any random Debian walkthrough20:06
nemohuhhh: and... take concerns with default setup to them. since Devuan really does try to touch debian defaults lightly20:07
nemohuhhh: what's your graphics card?  surprised kdenlive would die running nouveau.  I ran nouveau for years until I eventually hit a game that wouldn't work with it20:07
nemothat is, stuff like Planetary Annihilation worked fine with Nouveau, but Witcher was considerably more demanding20:08
huhhhgeforce 8600 potato20:09
specingyou still have a working 8600 geforce?20:19
huhhhyeah, all my computers come from the garbage20:21
specingmine melted away a decade ago20:22
specingmaybe that is why it is crashing for you20:22
huhhhruns fine on Ubuntu studio and windows20:22
nemoWhich windows20:27
nemo10?20:27
huhhhwindows 720:27
nemohuhhh: ok. do you have "optimise for speed" checked in windows 7?20:28
nemoor similar?20:28
nemo04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] (rev a1)  my current ancient graphics card that does seem to run a fair number of games as a reasonable framerate in nouveau20:29
nemoI'm shopping for something new though20:29
specingnemo: gtx750 if you can get one20:33
huhhhI don't know; I stopped using windows a few months ago and have been using Ubuntu Studio, AntiX, Parrot, ArcoLinux, Bodhi, etc... I might just go back to Ubuntu Studio, it is the most reliable despite relatively long boot and shutdown times(I just hit the power button when it takes too long :-))20:34
specinghuhhh: why shut it down in the first place?20:34
specingI don't even suspend my laptop anymore, I just leave it running in the backpack20:35
huhhhgood point lool20:35
nemospecing: I'm looking for something newer...20:48
nemospecing: but ideally with decent FOSS driver support. either AMD or nVidia20:48
huhhhModern computing is a mess; this is the future  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayh0qebfD2g20:49
specingnemo: gtx750 was the fastest gpu that could run open firmware20:49
nemohuhhh: I'm just noting depending on your hardware and uses, hardware compositing enabled or disabled can be helpful20:49
specingnemo: new nvidia requires firmrware blobs20:49
specingnew AMD too20:49
specingthere are other options, but they are slow20:49
nemospecing: the AMD thing I definitely noticed on laptops...20:49
nemoI'm not thrilled about that to be sure20:50
nemospecing: I'm just hoping it's limiting the scope of the damage20:50
nemospecing: is it for DRM?20:50
nemoor are they trying to keep parts of their tech secret?20:50
specingit is to prevent development of foss firmware, what else20:51
huhhhnemo, I don't know what you mean.  In windows I presume it was not optimized to be slow20:53
buZznemo: the latter20:53
buZzthey theorize that by having specs in the open, people would be able to clone their advantages over competitors quickly20:54
buZznvidia should just buy AMD20:54
buZzand be done with it, foss all the drivers20:55
MinceRlol20:57
huhhhFOSS the world20:58
buZzi wonder how many times intel tried to buy AMD thusfar20:58
huhhhI have only bought AMD, never touch Intel20:59
buZznot shares, the entire company20:59
buZzi like that after howmanyyears now, AMD is still just making 'intel compatible' chips21:00
huhhhbut now the student has surpassed the master21:00
buZzthey have prior21:00
buZzthey havent ever held such advantage really long though21:00
buZzAMD's total annual profit is less then 10% of intels R&D budget ;)21:01
huhhhR&D on how to kill more Palestinian kids faster :-D21:01
buZzarent they focussing on lebanon now?21:02
buZzi mean, i assume you're talking about that US state in the middle east21:02
huhhhI like falafels21:03
buZz'hebrewland' according to gomberg's famous NWO map21:03
huhhhYinon Plan foreshadows recent events if you look at a map21:04
specingbuZz | they theorize that by having specs in the open, people would be able to clone their advantages over competitors quickly21:04
specingshit their PR department says =/= what the real reason is21:05
specingbuZz | i wonder how many times intel tried to buy AMD thusfar21:05
specing021:05
specingno regulator would let it happen21:05
MinceRstrange, regulators usually don't care about any issues of significance21:05
buZzmany versions of nostradamus exist21:05
buZzspecing: sad21:06
MinceRmicroshit got less than a slap on the wrist for their monopoly abuses21:06
buZzspecing: well, i was talking to a PowerVR dev for a long time :P21:06
MinceRooh, they had to offer a boxed version of winblows with out idiot exploiter and another without media player21:06
MinceRooh, they had to offer users a choice of browsers for a short period21:06
specingI guess the best you can do is Talos + gtx750, free microcode and free gpu firmware.21:06
buZzplus pay some billions in fines21:06
MinceRwhich is nothing to them21:06
huhhhmicrosoft seem like nice guys compared to Google, talk about monopolies that bundle their stuff21:07
MinceRoh, forgot to mention that those boxed versions of winblows cost exactly the same the version that had both idiot exploiter and media player21:07
* onefang thinks you have gone off topic a little. Please take it elsewhere.21:07
MinceRno, google seems like nice guys compared to microsloth21:07
buZzif nice guys won, we'd all be on xerox computers today21:08
huhhhthey are on everyone's phone, with their operating system, bundled with their spyware browser... MS got attacked for much less21:08
MinceRmicroshit managed to do patent extortion against corporations that sell Linux on their devices based on a bullshit patent on something Linus came up with before they did, and got to force those devices to come preinstalled with microsuck malware21:09
MinceRmicrosloth decides what OS you can boot on a PC21:10
MinceRthey forced the CoC on Linux and they control the Linux-Destroying Foundation21:10
MinceRthey successfully threatened PC manufacturers with price hikes for offering customers a choice of operating systems21:10
MinceRthey used their ill-gotten monopolies to lock computer users into their seriously broken software and formats21:11
MinceRoh, and protocols21:11
buZzi like when they started to sue the living daylight out of some time 1person IT company that was gifting ppl copies of mouse.com21:11
buZzthat was hilarious21:11
MinceRthey filled ISO with their own minions so they could subvert the ISO from the inside to rubberstamp their shitty document format against the ISO rules, at a point where zero conforming implementations existed21:12
MinceRthey manipulated the EPO into acting against its own rules and accept software patent filings21:14
onefangThis is supposed to be a low traffic Devuan support channel.  How can I keep an eye out for actual Devuan support questions, when you fill it with shit that is completely off topic?  I ask you again, move this conversation elsewhere.21:14
MinceRmany times21:14
EHeMonefang: Or people attempting to sound the alarm about serious infrastructure problems (security updates are broken again!).21:22
onefangThat to.  B-)21:22
onefangOddly, the thing that off topic conversation was distracting my from is the development of my Devuan mirror infrastructure checking scripts.  It'll be expanded later to cover things like security updates being broken.21:27
EHeMIf it sounds an alarm at the present state of the git package, then it may be pretty valuable.21:29
onefangIt's called apt-panopticon, and as the name would suggest, the ultimate goal is to probe into every nook and cranny of the apt distribution system, to find out what is breaking, and where.  Integration with things like Nagios / Icinga is planned.  I recently added RRD history collection and graphing.21:43
golinuxEHeM: People sounding the alarm can take it to #debianfork21:49
golinuxonefang: Thanks for trying.21:49
golinuxThis is indeed a support channel.21:49
huuhhhhHow does one stop/start wicd in Devuan?  I want to remove it but want to test Network Manager first21:53
Akulisudo service wicd stop21:54
Akulii think network-manager needs systemd and so doesn't work on devuan21:54
huuhhhhi see... will try it anyway ;-)21:55
Akulihow are you even going to get it installed?21:55
Akuliit's in the repo hmm21:55
huuhhhhapt21:55
Akuliyeah21:55
Akulii wonder what will happen lol :D21:56
onefang/etc/init.d/wicd start21:56
fsmithredwe have network-manager21:56
onefangIf you are using SYS V init.21:56
huuhhhhI can always remove network-manager21:56
fsmithreduse one or the other21:57
huuhhhhand reboot21:57
Akulihmm21:57
fsmithredthere's also connman21:57
onefangOther init systems are available.  B-)21:57
Akuliis network-manager for devuan new? it wasn't an option about a year ago or something21:57
Akulii wanted to use it because my funny mobile broadband internet device worked with it but wicd doesn't support those things21:57
Akulibecause wicd devs don't have them21:58
fsmithredn-m has been devuanized for a long time21:58
fsmithredhuuhhhh, 'update-rc.d wicd remove'21:58
fsmithredto turn it off21:59
fsmithredupdate-rc.d wicd defaults  (to restore it)21:59
aaroi think is disable instead of remove21:59
fsmithredturn it off=disable it completely21:59
Akulinice, i didn't know about update-rc.d21:59
fsmithredremove removes all the links21:59
fsmithrednot sure what disable does22:00
Akulii would have just moved the init script to some other place if i wanted to disable it :D22:00
fsmithredsysv-rc-conf is easier22:00
fsmithredarrows and space bar22:00
fsmithredlooks like we have un-devuanized n-m in beowulf and ceres22:01
Akulihow do i upgrade to a newer devuan release without reinstalling everything? sudo apt dist-upgrade?22:02
fsmithredchange sources.list22:03
fsmithredapt update22:03
fsmithredapt upgrade22:03
fsmithredreboot22:03
fsmithredyeah, sudo or as root22:03
Akulihmm. a neighbour of mine uses devuan because he really wanted a non-systemd non-windows non-mac system, but he doesn't know how to edit config files, i'll just need to visit him every once in a while and update his system?22:04
fsmithredn-m wants libsystemd0 and libpam-systemd, but if you have libelogind0 and libpam-elogind, those will satisfy it.22:04
fsmithredAkuli, yes. You probably won't need to do much.22:05
Akulithanks22:05
fsmithredI've installed linux for several people who can't admin it (at all.)22:05
fsmithredI hardly ever have to do anything for them22:05
Akuliwould be tempting to set up ssh access to systems like that, but i don't want peoples' computers listening for the internet22:06
fsmithredAkuli, another option is to set up port forwarding22:06
fsmithredyes22:06
fsmithreduse auth keys, not login22:07
fsmithreduse non-standard port to avoid annoying hard drive activity from all the login attempts22:07
Akuliyeah public password logins are a bad idea22:07
fsmithredif you're going to do the upgrade over ssh, have your friend near the phone in case you need their help.22:08
Akuliwould be annoying to reboot their system for them, lol22:09
fsmithredI recall hearing about someone who would open and close the CD tray on his girlfriend's computer from across campus.22:09
Akulihttps://xkcd.com/530/22:10
fsmithredlol, thanks22:11
fsmithredaaro, do you know how disable differs from remove?22:11
Akulifsmithred, did you mean to ping me?22:13
aarofsmithred: well disable just do that, disable the service meaning it is already installed and you can enable it again, remove apparently remove links which i think it would be better to just uninstall purge the whole package22:13
Akulinevermind22:13
fsmithredguess I'll have to try it and see what it actually does. Maybe chmod -x?22:14
aarohttps://nixdoc.net/man-pages/Linux/man8/update-rc.d.8.html22:16
aaroi have always used disable/enable only wasn't aware of the remove option22:16
huuuhhnetwork-manager didn't bring up an applet in teh corner, but I was able to get wireless networks to be seen in nmtui, although it could not connect successfully22:26
EHeMMy one encounter with it was perhaps a decade ago due to a new installation deciding to install it, since it was doing an excellent job of being in the way and not being helpful, it remains in my thoughts as "Nyetwork Bungler"; you may like it, but I run away fast.22:26
huuuhhsomeone said beowulf has the un devuanized version of nm... what did you mean by that?22:27
huuuhhdoes Beowulf version of network-manager work?22:35
yann-kaeligjoin #debian22:44
fsmithredhuuuhh, I meant that we have the same network-manager as debian22:46
fsmithredI haven't tried it, but it should work. It does not require systemd22:46
huuuhhthanks, I'll try the upgrade23:00
huuuhhis there a command line interface for wicd, just out of curiousity.  wicd-curses does not work23:04
fsmithredhuuuhh, wicd-cli23:32
huuuhhfsmithred - not in my terminal23:54
fsmithredhuuuhh, that's the name of the package23:59
fsmithredok, it's also the name of the command. Make sure it's installed.23:59

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