freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-01-03

StarbeamrainbowlThat might be a simpler path if it's plausible00:00
tuxd3vStarbeamrainbowl, rockchip 3308 has no dts file in Mainline Kernel, at least on 5.4 series :(00:08
tuxd3vONly in mainline 5.x series is first commits for kernel support for 3308 here:00:17
tuxd3vand 2 boards beelink A100:18
tuxd3vin kernel 5.4 there are support for Nanopi Neo2 and NeoPlus2, at dts level, tought I don't know .. the "kinf of support.."00:20
tuxd3vto give you an example, only in 5.4 are there some relatively initial support for OrangePine Plus( H6 )00:21
tuxd3vin 5.5 will come other things, but still is not a platform completly supported..00:22
tuxd3vexpect always some thing to not be supported..00:22
tuxd3vTh sunxi community as better documentation, and allwinner has more supported boards than rockchip..00:23
tuxd3vbut both, have a big lack of support in mainline, if you look from certain perspectives..00:24
tuxd3vwhich means that a lot of boards out there will run Old kernels, mostly Android kernels..00:25
tuxd3vthings like 4.4 series.. is very comon00:26
tuxd3vthe numbers mean nothing, but if they old all the development close to their chest.. tomorrow they could choose not to continue giving drivers to users, and you will be blocked00:27
tuxd3vthat s the advantage of mainline.. you give once, and you can't block no one anymore.. :)00:28
Starbeamrainbowltuxd3v Ah, that's a shame. I'm not sure what a dts file is, but I assume it's required for support. It's the Soc of the Rock Pi S.00:28
StarbeamrainbowlThanks for the extensive  info!00:28
StarbeamrainbowlSo I want to make absolutely sure that any board I buy has mainline kernel support00:29
tuxd3vdts is the Hardware Description File in code of A board..00:29
StarbeamrainbowlAh, right00:29
tuxd3vLinux kernel will then use that file to know what is supported here, and how00:29
tuxd3vso you need always Soc Support00:30
Starbeamrainbowlgot it00:30
StarbeamrainbowlIt is a bit baffling why companies develop these boards and don't bother to invest in OS support. What use is an ARM board without an OS, anyway lol00:30
tuxd3vand dts support to get it to work( of course first you need uboot support :) )00:30
Starbeamrainbowluboot is like grub for arm devices?00:31
tuxd3vthey are some strange OS options with old kernels, which is what they chip in phones with android00:31
tuxd3vand they use same sources..00:31
tuxd3vbut would be better if they contribute to Mainline kernel, in that way, they don't need to maintain kernels versions and so on..00:32
tuxd3vthey seem not very smart00:32
tuxd3vits pure capitalism00:32
tuxd3vthey try to hold, they most they can00:32
tuxd3vand they give you the board in Advance..00:33
StarbeamrainbowlI find that without strong software support, the use of ARM boards is rather limited00:33
tuxd3vYou buy the board...well and you are bonded to a problem, which is lack of support... but hey00:33
tuxd3vyou already paied the board, so for them is really a nice business :)00:33
Starbeamrainbowlyep, I've been bitten bythat with the Orange Pi 3 (Allwinner H6)00:33
Starbeamrainbowlhence the extreme caution here00:34
tuxd3vI was also biten several times :)00:34
StarbeamrainbowlI'm planning an ARM cluster for educational purposes you see, so I'll be buying 3 x small lower-power boards to play with storage, and 4 x Raspberry Pi 4 for compute00:35
StarbeamrainbowlI'm just undecided on which boards to choose :P00:35
tuxd3vyeah that is the problem os everybody :D00:59
tuxd3vchoosing the correct ones :)00:59
ball37Anyone know why nobody is seeding the devuan_ascii torrent?01:51
ball37I guess I'll look for an http link01:52
fsmithredfor isos01:53
fsmithredball37, here's the mirror list:
ball37yeah, I'm downliading a 1G file...01:54
ball37Just noting that the torrents don't work01:54
fsmithredI think that will be fixed soon01:54
fsmithred1G... desktop-live?01:55
ball37cool. I'm going to try katoolin on the desktop live and see how that goes (downloads kali set)01:55
fsmithredfor which debian suite is it?01:55
ball37bulleye I think01:56
fsmithredok, be patient01:57
fsmithredonly ascii isos now01:57
fsmithredwe're in the process of getting beowulf isos ready01:58
fsmithredwe don't have a chimaera repo yet to merge bullseye, but that will happen soon01:58
ball37ok, so I should wait?01:58
fsmithredwell, this is an experiment, right?01:59
fsmithredwell, if it's bullseye, you will have to wait01:59
fsmithreddo they say which ubuntu they tested it on?02:00
ball37well I use bt5 as a router in a vm, which is based on ubuntu Lucid02:00
ball37which is really old and doesn't fully support some hardware I have02:01
ball37tried back-porting the driver but that didn't work02:02
ball37I appreciate all the work BTW02:02
fsmithredI just lost sound. I wanted to watch the video.02:03
fsmithredthere's a link to a video on the katoolin page02:04
ball37That audio is just some euroweenie techno02:05
fsmithredwell, in this case...02:07
fsmithredspeaker wasn't plugged in02:07
fsmithredworks now02:08
ball37Has anyone tried just deleting systemd from the debian distros?02:10
ball37meaning after installing debian02:10
fsmithredvivid in the video02:10
fsmithredyes, antix uses debian without systemd, but they have a repo of packages that have been scrubbed02:11
fsmithredsimilar to what we do02:11
fsmithredyou might be able to do it with a very lean system02:11
fsmithredbut I'm not sure02:11
fsmithredhaven't tried that since jessie02:11
ball37all I use is a few konsoles02:11
ball37looks like its based on buster02:15
fsmithredI've got some beowulf-based Refracta isos you could try02:16
fsmithredvivid uses 3.19 kernel - that was jessie02:21
ball37antiX looks good if it works, given I run it out of a VM02:22
fsmithredI'm gonna try katoolin. Looks like it only takes a few minutes.02:24
fsmithredball37, it seems to be working. I'm installing stuff.02:43
fsmithrednot all the packages are available02:44
cynicfmhey, may i ask here what devuaners think about Gentoo????02:44
ball37fsmithred are you referring to katoolin on devuan buster?02:44
fsmithredon devuan beowulf (actually a refracta live iso in vm)02:45
MinceRgentoo is nice but i've seen portage fail already02:46
fsmithredlooks like you have to select each tool to install it. The option to install all in a category doesn't work if any of the packages are missing.02:46
MinceR(but then again, i've seen APT fuck up as well)02:47
cynicfmMinceR: sorry i have used Devuan for some time, but i am new to Gentoo, what do you mean portage fail again?? It has failed you??02:47
fsmithredbeyond nice, gentoo is a great distribution, because you can do anything the way you want02:47
fsmithredI don't have the patience for it02:47
MinceRi had an install of a gentoo-based distro where after a period of not updating portage decided that nothing needed to be upgraded even though the portage tree was updated02:48
cynicfmwhat i personally find with distributions like Devuan for exmaple is that they're so good to the point they're boring cuz i don't know how to learn new things when im there ;/02:48
MinceRi wish i had access to an OS that was so good as to be boring02:48
fsmithredwhen I switched to debian, I considered gentoo for the same reason I switched to debian - very big repo02:48
cynicfmwell i have used Hyperbola Gnu/Linux for a while and it is really good, but it's 100% libre...02:49
fsmithredand yeah, devuan and debian are boring02:49
fsmithredit's a feature02:49
MinceRdebian is no longer boring02:49
MinceRevery boot and every shutdown is a game of russian roulette02:49
fsmithredI remember her the way she was02:50
furrywolfheh, this box crashes on hibernate about 1 in 6 times...02:50
cynicfmi had that russian roulette when i used Arch Linux02:50
furrywolfhowever, I believe it to be the kernel's fault.  :)02:50
erhandsoME[m]if you want stablity go for boring02:51
cynicfmi want to learn new things02:51
cynicfmmaybe gentoo will teach me something...02:52
cynicfmanyways sorry i should go on devuan-chat or something02:52
cynicfm#debianfork it is, ok thanks :)02:53
erhandsoME[m]you don't need to tear your house to do something else02:53
cynicfmi am quite new to Linux, i suppose i still learn things for beginner although i still keep trying new distributions, Gentoo is one of them... I have used devuan for about 8 months before this02:54
cynicfmis there any way of installing devuan without erasing whole HDD??02:54
MinceRthere are ways02:55
cynicfmok cool, thanks ;)02:55
cynicfmI'll find out how haha, cheers have a good day02:55
MinceRfor example, running it in a VM; installing it on free space alongside the HDD that has an existing OS; installing it on a second(/etc.) SSD/HDD; installing it on a removable storage device02:55
cynicfmohh u mean installing it on usbstick??02:56
cynicfmlike a live session??02:56
specingyou could do the formatting on a dummy usb stick, or somehow skip it and then use ^02:57
specingdebian/devuan becomes painful once you want to deviate from the norm02:58
fsmithredthere's a wide variety of norms03:00
fsmithredball37, you still here? Seems to be working. I've installed at least a dozen packages with no complaints, but I'm about to run out of space in this vm.03:10
fsmithredI'm just running a live iso.03:11
fsmithredif I knew more about these tools I might actually install in a vm and then make a live iso of that03:11
fsmithredprobably need to give the mv 20G or more.03:12
MinceRcynicfm: yes, that would be one method03:29
fsmithredI'm going to lose my connection for a minute (I hope) brb04:42
beurswhat's the default devuan password?14:08
onefangFrom memory the default root password for Devuan is toor.14:09
beursyep, root - toor14:09
onefangNothing wrong with my memo ... what where we talking about?14:10
fsmithreddevuan/devuan, root/toor14:21
onefangAh, I HAD forgotten something.  lol14:22
beursdevuan/devuan doesn't work here14:24
fsmithredwhere are you?14:27
fsmithredlive isos use the passwords I posted14:28
beursyeah okay, not using a live distro14:28
fsmithredwhat are you using?14:28
beursdisk image14:28
fsmithredah, ok. Maybe there's no user?14:29
beursno prob, i got root :P14:29
fsmithredor luther?14:29
onefangWith root you can solve the other password problem.14:29
fsmithredball37, too bad you left14:31
epergnyis anyone running the latest Devuan on some AMD Ryzen Zen 2 rig? (like a 3700x/3800x/3900x)  Anything particular to do to make it work or does it work out of the box?16:07
gnarfaceepergny: if it doesn't work, installing the kernel from ascii-backports should16:11
gnarfaceshouldn't need anything special afaik except just a new enough kernel.  i'm not sure if the stock ascii one is new enough16:12
gnarfaceyou can test from a live image to find out though16:12
epergnygnarface: ah tyvm, good to know.  Don't have an AMD Ryzen Zen 2 though: asking before buying : )16:27
gnarfaceepergny: hang out, it's a slow channel but i know some other people in here do have them.16:43
fsmithredepergny, did you try booting the desktop-live? Or any iso?16:50
fsmithredoh, I finally read to the end. If you end up needing to boot with a newer kernel, I have a live iso with the ascii-backports kernel.17:00
fsmithredor maybe there will be beowulf isos by the time you buy it. (betas)17:00
DonkeyHoteiepergny: for zen2 you need at least a 5.0 kernel17:01
fsmithredok, bpo won't be new enough17:03
gnarfacebpo isn't up to that yet?17:06
gnarfaceoh, i guess not, it is only 4.1917:07
fsmithredascii-backports has17:07
fsmithredI'm about to check buster-backports17:07
furrywolfspeaking of beowulf, is it reasonably safe to upgrade to it yet?  I have two ascii boxes that could use newer non-bpo software.17:07
furrywolficewm on this one, xfce on the other.17:08
fsmithredceres has 5.417:08
fsmithredI've upgraded xfce and it's not bad17:09
gnarfaceepergny: oh, i guess you need a much newer kernel than ascii-backports, but you can get it from ceres or you can build it yourself.  let me know if you need help17:09
fsmithredbeowulf with buster-backports kernel should work17:10
gnarfacea custom 5.3 kernel build is working fine for me in ascii but that is on aarch6417:11
fsmithredfurrywolf, you'll probably get some arguments at the end about elogind. Beat it with a hammer and it will eventually upgrade the last ones.17:12
fsmithredapt is afraid to remove lsd017:12
furrywolfI'll start with the xfce box...  it's just used for playing music at work, and breaking is acceptable for that.17:13
furrywolfmostly I'm hoping newer x fixes the horrible memory leak that box has17:14
linearainhi, whats so bad with sytemd that debian had to fork?22:01
Akulilinearain, the answers you get will depend a lot on which devuan user is answering. i guess one big thing is that systemd doesn't follow the "do one thing and do it well" philosophy, and does more things than a traditional init program does22:07
* golinux groans and suggest that <linearain> takes it to #debianfork with <Akuli>22:07
linearaini see.22:08

Generated by 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!