freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-01-14

tuxd3vthis doesn't have a easy answer.. a desktop witl 70-80MB and very responsive00:13
tuxd3vIt will be used by boards with 1GB Ram, and we need to account with the browser which is the bigest concern..00:13
tuxd3vbut if we manage to have a 70-80MB desktop, we can control the browser to use some 600-700Mb of Ram00:14
qbmonkeyWhat more specific was the question?00:15
tuxd3vqbmonkey, you use 75 mb on wich environments?00:16
tuxd3von start00:16
qbmonkeyNo env.00:17
tuxd3vonly console?00:17
qbmonkeyterminal on boot, startx to get X00:17
tuxd3von that I use ~35MB in armhf00:17
qbmonkeyI can't get that low with Xorg running00:17
tuxd3vin armel, Ishould use for that around 17MB00:17
qbmonkeySome setups around 55 with X00:18
tuxd3vYeah I mean with a X11 environment00:18
qbmonkeyOnce 45, but it was a very specific setup00:18
tuxd3vyou use a window manager?00:18
qbmonkeyno dbus00:19
qbmonkeyI like armel, but the boards I have don't crunch math well enough.00:20
tuxd3vhehehe true :)00:21
qbmonkeyAlways wanted a parallela but I don't have the time to make it work for my needs00:22
tuxd3vEquinox could provide more information about Ram usage..00:22
tuxd3vyeah I dreamed with Paralela Board, but it took so many time to come to market that I don't know its status anymore00:22
tuxd3vI don't now its processing power..00:23
qbmonkeyIt could be nice, but not out of the box.00:24
qbmonkeyI like lite Env. like EDE. But clicking on thinks is slower for me.00:25
qbmonkeyBut I live on the terminal.00:26
qbmonkey*clicking on "things"00:26
qbmonkeyI like the mouse for resizing and cut paste.00:26
tuxd3vyeah we live there but sometimes we resurface to bump some tons of oxygen :)00:26
tuxd3vto be honest the mouse is the thing i doesn't like too much00:27
tuxd3vyou need to get your hands out of the keyboard..00:27
qbmonkeyOn a  laptop with a nub is is okay.00:28
qbmonkeyLike a thinkpad00:28
tuxd3vho yeah00:28
tuxd3vthat thing I already love :)00:28
tuxd3vCan't find EDE( Equinox ) packages to install and test... and the build script is broken :(00:29
qbmonkeyI once set up a machine to use shortcuts for pointer movements. It was nice, once you got used to it. But sometimes it just was silly.00:29
qbmonkeyI don't CDE isn't in there either00:32
qbmonkey*don't think00:32
qbmonkeyOh man, typing on too many windows has its draw backs, lol00:32
aarotuxd3v: that equinox looks quite nice actually, haven't heard about it before. At work we needed a low resource windos like environment and we went with trinity (tde), it takes around 200 MB after load (32 bits)00:39
tuxd3vyeah equinox( or shortly EDE ),  seems very nice, but the compile script is broken :S00:41
tuxd3vAnd its not in deb packages availlable..00:41
qbmonkeyDoes KDE take more than 200mb these day?00:42
qbmonkeygnu_srs1,  mentioned Window Maker. It is lite-ish. You have to build your own menu tree. But it has GUI tools for doing that in the configuration screen00:45
qbmonkeyIts a little weird to work with.00:45
aaroif you mean plasma, i'm sure it does, never used it though00:46
tuxd3vTrinity is the smaller I think..00:46
tuxd3vfor kde00:46
qbmonkeyheavens no, not plasma00:46
aarotrinity is to kde what mate would be to gnome (kinda)00:47
qbmonkeyI was just thinking that back in my early linux days, KDE could be leaned down a bunch. Turn off the crap you didn't need, and it wasn't that bad.00:47
tuxd3vand the Lumina desktop, is some sort of trinity don't you guys think?00:47
aarotrinity forked from kde 3 iirc00:48
qbmonkeyIs that on linux now, Lumina00:48
qbmonkeyWas FBSD right?00:48
tuxd3vyeah lumina was, but I think they share a lot of roots, maybe I am wrong..00:48
tuxd3vprobably :)00:48
qbmonkeyThats cool. It didn't look too bad either.00:49
tuxd3vbut I bet both lumina and trinity goes way up from the ~100MB of Equinox00:50
qbmonkeyOkay, how about setting up an Openbox desktop?00:50
tuxd3vI din't wanted to compile it from sources... as usually when we test something we trow it away after.. I don't really know .. I guess I will have to compile it :S00:51
tuxd3vby hand..00:51
qbmonkeytuxd3v,  when you mentioned your ram usage, did you mean just WM's ram usage?00:51
tuxd3vI mean desktop usage after a cold boot00:51
qbmonkeyNo, it should be in the repo "OpenBox"00:51
tuxd3vopenbox yeas, but I am intrigued with Equinox..00:52
tuxd3vlife sucks for all of us, we are almost 90% of time searching for something new :D00:52
qbmonkeyWhen you say Equinox, build script is broken, what did it do?00:52
aarotuxd3v: umm it is found as a package in freebsd, nice00:53
tuxd3vif fails to get a source for it :(00:53
qbmonkeyIs it in the repo?00:53
qbmonkeyThe source?00:53
tuxd3vI will paste output:00:53
tuxd3vbecause some urls are broken..00:55
tuxd3vit breaks00:55
tuxd3vI will try to download 'jam-2.5-haiku-20080327.tar.gz'00:56
tuxd3vthis seems to be from Aiku beos like.. :)00:56
tuxd3vhugh.. I found this:
qbmonkeyyou might read this too
qbmonkeyYou can get the files and do it without that netinstall script01:03
qbmonkeyBut the debs are quicker, for sure01:03
qbmonkeyIf you want to use the python netinstall script, you can edit the ede-2.1-full.cfg file the script downloads, and add replacement mirrors/links to the files it needs.01:08
tuxd3vqbmonkey, yeah I saw it, but don't know how to tell him to forget download because I already downloaded all parts manually :)01:09
tuxd3vthanks :)01:09
qbmonkeyIt must have downloaded it, because the file it couldn't get in your log is not called in the netinstall script, but in the .cfg file01:09
qbmonkeyI did do anything, really.... But I do hope you get to try it out.01:10
tuxd3v5 packages :)01:15
tuxd3vits done:
fsmithredtuxd3v, I just booted a live-iso that has icewm. In qemu, I gave the VM 198mb ram. Here's output of free -m.01:22
fsmithredMem:            182          78           3           8          99          8801:22
fsmithred78 used01:23
fsmithredthat's ascii01:23
fsmithredI'm sure beowulf will be worse01:23
fsmithredI used to get xfce under 100mb without any trouble. (That was in squeeze.)01:24
tuxd3v78 is really more  close to what I needed.. a desktop image for small Ram contrained systems :)01:25
tuxd3vhello, me again, I was not able to completly test it :(01:45
fsmithredwhy not?01:45
tuxd3vAny time I restart the resolution come strange..01:45
tuxd3vI need to issue:01:46
tuxd3vis there a way to automate this process01:48
tuxd3vI can only see the entry to type name and password on the screen01:48
tuxd3vis magnified or something01:48
fsmithredmaybe put it in ~/.xinitrc01:49
fsmithredyou use startx?01:49
tuxd3vno I use slim Login Manager01:50
tuxd3vmy graphics cards is a intel01:50
tuxd3vdriver i91501:50
tuxd3vI need always to do that01:50
tuxd3vI only see in the screen the login entry to type username and password, very big entry01:51
fsmithredI'm not sure where you should put it01:51
tuxd3vI don't know why he system messes with my resolution01:51
tuxd3vI am in xfce01:51
fsmithredmaybe you can boot with a vga= option?01:51
fsmithredin xfce, make a .desktop file that either runs your command or runs a scipt01:52
tuxd3vyou mean in the bootargs?01:52
fsmithredyeah boot args01:52
tuxd3vI have 2 cards, one for display01:52
tuxd3vthe intel one01:52
fsmithredbut in xfce, put the .desktop file in ~/.config/autostart/01:52
tuxd3vand the other for nvidia cuda things..01:52
tuxd3vyeah but I also wanted to see how it is the Equinox Desktop Environment, maybe the  ~/.xinitrc option is nice for now, I will try that :)01:53
fsmithredI'm not sure if that will work in xfce01:54
fsmithredtry it01:54
aarotuxd3v: ede seems to be unmantained, last release in 2014, depends on EOL python 2.7, better go with something like icewm like fsmithred told01:55
aarooops gone01:56
fsmithredyeah, he ran off again. He'll be back.01:56
aarothis guy is fast01:56
tuxd3vfmisthred, no it was invain02:43
fsmithredyes, I know. I tried it02:44
tuxd3vI will need to try EDE in another machine..02:44
tuxd3vbecause with 640x480 I only see a bit of screen02:44
fsmithredoh, I thouhght you were trying to fix the display02:44
tuxd3vthankfully, its the login entry :)02:44
tuxd3vso ...02:44
tuxd3vslim is really really nice!02:45
fsmithredyou tried .xinitrc, but you didn't try using a .desktop file02:45
tuxd3vhow  could I do it?02:45
tuxd3vcreate a display.desktop file?02:46
tuxd3vfsmithred,  where do you think it should be advisable to create that file?02:47
tuxd3vin my home?02:48
fsmithrededit the mode to your liking02:48
fsmithredput it in ~/.config/autostart/02:48
fsmithredyou can call it display.desktop or whatever.desktop02:48
fsmithredit will automatically show up in xfce's autostart applications02:49
fsmithredif you want it to show up in other desktops, comment or remove the line that says OnlyShow...02:49
fsmithredthen restart your desktop02:49
tuxd3vthanks a lot!02:51
tuxd3vI will test now :)02:51
tuxd3vIt didin't worked..02:59
fsmithredyou put your commands in the file?03:00
tuxd3vbut it didn't worked03:00
tuxd3vI also tried this03:01
tuxd3vbut executing the commands one by one in the shell works..03:04
fsmithredput them in a script03:05
fsmithredand run the script from the Exec line03:05
tuxd3vgood Idea :)03:05
fsmithredthis won't affect the login screen, just the desktop.03:07
tuxd3vno the login screen is also afected..03:07
fsmithredthis will not fix the login screen03:08
tuxd3vI only see the entry to put username and password03:08
fsmithredthis will fix the desktop03:08
tuxd3vbecause the screen is magnified or something03:08
fsmithredhow is the console font size?03:08
tuxd3vfsmithred, thanks , now it worked for xfce :)03:18
tuxd3vI always found configuring 2 graphics cards dificult03:19
tuxd3vthis was a great Idea :)03:19
fsmithredI've been using lxrandr for configuring multiple monitors.03:21
fsmithredbut in beowulf, the xfce display settings are much improved03:22
fsmithredand can handle two monitors easily, so I no longer need lxrandr03:22
tuxd3vI still need to upgrade to beowulf03:23
tuxd3vBut I have fears that something will break :)03:23
tuxd3vat some point in time I will need to03:23
tuxd3vI am braking my head trying to compile EDE( Equinox Desktop Environment.. )04:21
tuxd3vdoes exist any package named fltk-config04:22
tuxd3vI can't find it :(04:22
tuxd3vis says I have not the FLTK installed :(04:22
tuxd3vI think I craked it..04:25
tuxd3vI anotatted but I believe I forgot to install libfltk1.3-dev :S04:26
DarwinElfwould it likely work to convert Ubuntu (Kubuntu) 18.04 to non-systemd just by using the Devuan instructions to convert from Debian?05:08
golinuxProbably not very well.  Give it a try and let us know.05:11
furrywolfubuntu is modified a lot from debian.  I'd give it pretty good odds of breaking.05:12
golinuxHi furry05:12
n0a110wis there a way to prevent a service from being started in sysvinit? Similar to "mask" (...systemd term)07:35
n0a110wi would like to figure out how to properly run nfs4 ONLY. it seems i still have other rpc ports listening07:41
gnarfacen0a110w: i think you probably want to disable rpcbind08:11
gnarfacen0a110w: i think the service might be called portmap?09:13
n0a110wit seems rpcbind is probably what i need to disable10:23
n0a110wgoing to try it shortly and see if anything stops working10:23
amesserrpcbind == portmap :-)10:36
minnesotagsThanks golinux and onefang18:14
minnesotagsWith the new Debian vote, is resistance futile? I just had a completely unrelated package that seems to have systemd as a req.18:15
golinuxminnesotags: amprolla filters hard systemd dependencies so just where did you get that package?
golinuxResistance may not succeed but if we don't try we surely will be assimilated.18:34
fsmithredminnesotags, what package was it?18:39
golinuxI've been waiting for him to reappear.18:40
golinuxDoes the newly generated blacklist look shorter to you?18:40
fsmithredI'll check18:40
golinuxI need food18:41
minnesotagsI'm not sure if it is a hard dependency yet, but OpenNMS.18:42
fsmithredThis one?  openms - package for LC/MS data management and analysis18:44
fsmithredok, I'm looking at OpenNMS web page.18:46
fsmithredThey say the installation script requires systemd.18:47
fsmithredThey don't say the package requires it, but you're supposed to start it with systemctl start|stop opennms18:48
fsmithredcan't tell from that if it really requires systemd or not. It might just be lacking init scripts.18:48
minnesotagsThat really, really sucks because I've been running an OpenNMS on this devuan since the very first summer of 2014. 2014? 2015?18:49
fsmithredyou might have to do some fiddling with it to get it to work18:51
g0zzyI don't know if there are any Brits out there who have come across the phenomenon of British Telecom modem-routers stubbornly refusing to acknowledge DHCP requests - if so, any found solutions?18:59
fsmithredask them how to set it to bridge and use your own router19:02
fsmithredI would not trust their router.19:03
g0zzyThe hardware or their firmware?19:05
fsmithredor setting. (check those)19:06
g0zzyActually most BT routers will do OpenWrt19:06
fsmithredfirst wireless modem/router that verizon gave me was set to do remote admin with the default password19:06
g0zzyBut the client in question has only just got his so i'm reluctant to do anything to change the firmware19:07
fsmithredyeah, good idea19:07
fsmithredif the hardware is bad, you want the ISP to be responsible19:07
g0zzyI'm guessing that there's something odd with their DHCP as i've seen this many times19:09
fsmithredthe problem is with the router giving an address to local box or router getting an address from ISP?19:09
g0zzyThe former19:10
g0zzyMany's the time i've tailed the syslog of a box where the DHCP request falls on deaf ears19:11
fsmithredif you've looked through the settings in the router and they seem correct and it doesn't work, you probably need to talk tot he ISP19:11
fsmithreddoes a static address work?19:12
g0zzyWell of course, they'd latch on to the fact that other boxes on the network are successful and blame the box itself19:12
g0zzyI haven't tried that. I'd need to visit the client.19:13
g0zzyHis two other network devices have no problems. Brand new router today19:15
fsmithredare any of them using wired network?19:16
fsmithredobvious things are to switch out hardware - i.e. try yet another computer, if wired, try a differennt port or a different cable19:16
g0zzyAll wireless19:18
g0zzyHe might have to wire the laptop pro tem19:18
fsmithredand you know the wireless works on the laptop?19:19
g0zzyOh yes. At least has been fine before19:21
g0zzyI mean the Devuan wireless applet shows the SID ok and so on19:22
fsmithredso he didn't accidentally turn it off19:22
g0zzyNo, otherwise the applet wouldn't show the network would it?19:24
fsmithredmake sure the dhcp has enough available addresses and hasn't allocated only the number of devices he's already using. Unlikely that this would be the problem.19:26
g0zzyYes, i think there should be plenty of addresses available. It's probably one of those 'gone deaf' cases. Funnily enough, though i've seen this many times with different BT routers, i've never found anyone else reporting this when googling19:27
fsmithredmost people probably just call the isp19:28
g0zzyYes, i guess so. I suppose the number of techies who can actually SEE what's happening are going to be in a very small minority19:29
g0zzyIt'd be nice to know whether the dchp server is proprietary19:31
g0zzyI hate it when this kind of thing happens though as people can start thinking 'Linux is at fault'19:33
fsmithredI don't suppose it's running linux and you can log in19:33
fsmithredand look around at the files19:33
g0zzyOh no. You can't Telnet to BT routers anymore. They stopped that years ago19:34
fsmithredI was thinking ssh, but probably same deal19:34
g0zzyOh yes. Actually i think ssh wasn't ever present19:35
g0zzyAnd i know they used to use Linux at least from when i *was* able to telnet in19:36
* g0zzy suspected them of GPL naughtiness19:36
fsmithredok, I have to work up the nerve to shut down and move some hard drives around.19:38
fsmithredneed to go for a walk first.19:38
g0zzyfyi the 'Linux at fault' thing i was getting at is that the other Android and iOS devices are OK, but not the Devuan laptop19:38
g0zzySure thing, thanks for the chat19:38
fsmithredso they're all unix-like OS19:39
fsmithredsee you later19:39
g0zzyTalking of hard drives i was amused to see a Debian prompt on one of the boxes of the crew who first visualized a black hole (BBC program about it)19:40
g0zzy6000GB of data. The prompt read19:41
g0zzylsscsi | grep -c disk19:41
* tuxd3v tuxd3v is still fighting to get EDE desktop Environment working..21:20

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