freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-01-21

premobosshello, i guess i can find help here: i hame a videoclip an i must slide it into several pieces. I say, i have videoclip of 10 minutes and i gave to split into 6 pieces of 2,2,1,1,3,1 minutes. THere are some tool that can do y? at least, a pogram to cut form time xx:xx:xx till yy:yy:yy then i can do a script to slide out the pieces i need.00:03
masonpremoboss: vlc, ffmpeg, maybe even handbrake00:04
premobossmason, thanks.00:04
masonbbl, dinner00:04
premobossbbl? means?00:04
djph"be back later"00:04
premobossah, be bac later?00:04
premobossok thanks and bye00:04
xrogaanalright, something fishy is going on06:18
xrogaan2925 upgraded, 558 newly installed, 87 to remove and 0 not upgraded.06:18
xrogaanNeed to get 2625 MB of archives.06:18
xrogaanAfter this operation, 2492 MB of additional disk space will be used.06:18
xrogaanAlmost as much additional disk space as the amount of archives needed to be fetch.06:19
xrogaanDuring ascii->beowulf06:19
xrogaanbut there are also a lot of packages that do not get automatically removed06:20
xrogaanI wonder if it is possible to tell apt to do the autoremove alongside the full-upgrade06:20
rrq2.5 Gb archives?06:27
xrogaanfor a full upgrade, yeah06:28
xrogaanthe archives are ok, they're stored on a separate disk06:32
xrogaanbut 2GiB of extra data?06:32
xrogaanah, cherrytree is being removed from debian06:34
xrogaanNice, I need to backup all my notes.06:34
testesthi, was doublecmd removed from devuan repos?08:45
testestfsmithred: hey, in case if interested eudev installed with the 4.9 kernel that installed with ascii cd, with 5.2 it just did not work08:46
Joriltestest: just tested on Ascii, doublecmd-gtk and doublecmd-qt are there08:49
testestah, i guess apt did not use /etc/apt/sources.list only /etc/apt/sources.list.d/devuan.list08:52
Joriltestest: mmh that would be strange, I think09:08
testestim not blaming anyone though, i will have to look into it, but im preety sure they got skipped as only was the link from which the updates downpoured, not as entered into sources.list09:18
testestand yes, it is a litle bit odd09:20
testestbecause i did not set those into sources.list.d myself but those got auto-generated09:20
JorilIsn't deprecated nowadays?09:54
testestoh anyways deleting /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and anything the directory contained seemed to resort to sources.list in /etc/apt/10:52
DanielTheFoxhenlo, long time no see :)14:20
xrogaanHello from beowulf16:53
furrywolfdoes it work well enough for me to upgrade yet?  :)16:58
jaromili did a year ago, works like a charm17:00
jaromilbut well, disclaimer: I use windowmaker, not sure about other DE integrations17:00
jaromilquite certain awesome and i3 work17:00
furrywolficewm here17:01
furrywolfyes, and I despise it immensely.17:02
jaromilwell ... no comment but yea. works :^)17:02
furrywolfno, it doesn't work.17:02
jaromil...for me :^) not that I like it but works17:02
furrywolfyou check the box that tells it to connect automatically...  and it does about half the time.  the other half the time you have to restart it and manually connect.17:02
jaromilyea same here17:03
furrywolfand it can't even do things like fucking close its own window properly - you close the window, and it instantly re-opens!17:03
jaromili have a friend who started some fork i think17:03
furrywolfeven people learning X writing Hello World in a box manage to make closing the window work properly.17:03
jaromilnot sure if complete17:04
onefangWicd is wicked.  Though the only problem I have with it is that it likes to randomly rearrange it's config file, which is a pain when using etckeeper to stuff /etc into git.17:04
jaromilit must be that there is no deterministic sort before saving the conf17:08
furrywolfit can write to its /etc config file?  that's...  broken by design.17:10
furrywolfyep, looks like it can and does.17:10
furrywolfnow I have another reason to hate it.17:10
onefangSynaptic does the same.17:11
furrywolfsynaptic at least has an excuse to be system-wide...  wicd should be putting stuff in $HOME.17:11
onefangWhy?  So that each different user can use their own WiFi connection?17:12
furrywolfif one person takes the laptop to work, and another person to their school, etc, it makes no sense for them to all see each others' networks.17:13
onefangNetworking is system wide here, and that's the way I like it.17:13
furrywolfespecially since wicd will show you plaintext passwords17:13
onefangAh, shared laptop specific use case.17:13
furrywolfand if only one person uses the laptop, then it doesn't matter whether it's in /etc or $HOME, but one involves programs writing to /etc for no reason and one doesn't.  heh.17:14
furrywolfmeh, except for the obvious case that you might want the network up before anyone logs in.  which is probably valid.17:15
onefangI want my network up at boot time.  Though the only portable networked devices I have is my phones, and I don't share them.17:15
furrywolfI just find wicd's level of buggy shittiness way too high for it to be used for any kind of system-level configuration.  heh.17:18
yetiI gave up trying to understand "user friedly network managers"17:19
masonI'm much more a fan of ifupdown for all of this. Although for wireless stuff, a bare wpa_supplicant.conf can work.17:19
masonTogether too, which I only just now realized by reading
masonI need to do that now, because as much as I love ifupdown, I love specifying networks in wpa_supplicant.conf even ore.17:22
furrywolfwpa_supplicant is pointlessly difficult to configure, with requiring the key to be generated beforehand with a seperate utility and pasted into the config.17:22
masonfurrywolf: You can pop a plaintext psk in as well. You don't strictly *need* wpa_passphrase.17:23
masonAs for pointlessly difficult, well.17:23
furrywolfmason:  eh?  is that a new feature?17:23
masonfurrywolf: Nah, even the default tool defaults to this:
masonIt's commented out, but it's valid if you uncomment it.17:24
furrywolfI quite distinctly remember fighting with this a while ago, and getting annoyed at it.17:24
masonBut, the new thing today which makes me Very Happy is the handling of "default" as noted by that wiki article. That's neat, and I'm going to start using it.17:25
xrogaanmmh, using synaptic:17:32
xrogaandebconf: Impossible d'initialiser l'interface : Gnome17:32
xrogaandebconf: (Can't locate in @INC (you may need to install the Gtk3 module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.28.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.28.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.28 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.28 /usr/share/perl/5.28 /usr/local/lib/site_perl /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base) at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/FrontEnd/ line 151, <> line 16.)17:32
xrogaanwell, I don't know anything about that17:34
xrogaanlibgtk-perl apparently17:37
xrogaanOpens a windows instead of using the integrated console.17:38
fsmithredwithout that you get ncurses debconf screens inst...17:38
xrogaanAlright, installed the backport kernel. Gonna reboot.17:38
xrogaanfsmithred: you wanted feedbacks, I have this warning: W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/rtl8125a-3.fw for module r816917:44
xrogaanit's probably a debian thing though17:44
fsmithredyeah, it is17:44
fsmithredand it's old17:44
fsmithredsince wheezy at least17:44
fsmithredI think firmware-realtek supplies it17:45
fsmithredI know for wheezy I ended up getting a package from ubuntu for a better driver17:45
xrogaanother than that, it went fine. There was a hickup with java I believe. Stopped in the middle, needed to `apt-get install --fix-broken` and it remove/installed some stuff.17:46
fsmithredyeah, libreoffice stuff17:46
xrogaanBut I uninstalled libreoffice before the upgrade...17:46
fsmithredthis was an upgrade from ascii to beowulf and then you added bpo kernel?17:47
fsmithredthanks for feedback17:47
fsmithreddid uninstall include autoremove?17:48
fsmithredor purge?17:48
xrogaanI already was using bpo with ascii, and I believe I need a kernel that is more up to date for AMDGPU stuff.17:48
xrogaanlibreoffice? I purged it, but it simply uninstalled what was marked as autoinstalled.17:49
xrogaanI don't suppose there is a log of the thing?17:49
xrogaanwould help with actual package names17:49
fsmithredok, then I don't know what did it17:49
fsmithredno full log, just the command in /var/log/apt/history.log17:49
xrogaanI should have used script :(17:50
xrogaanapt purge libreoffice followed with autoremove17:50
masonOh, FWIW, there was more in the READMEs in /usr/share/doc. End result looks like this:
xrogaan(broken-install) >> Install: libjsp-api-java:amd64 (2.3.4-2, automatic), libwebsocket-api-java:amd64 (1.1-1, automatic), libel-api-java:amd64 (3.0.0-2, automatic)17:51
fsmithredmason, have you had a chance to look at the lvm code for cryptsetup?17:53
fsmithredSee last commit:
xrogaanlibjsp-api-java replace libservlet3.1-java, but libservlet got installed.17:54
masonfsmithred: Oh, I didn't realize I was to review it. I'll do that right now.17:55
fsmithredI've tested it several times and it works.17:55
xrogaancan dpkg.log show failures?17:56
fsmithredI don't know17:56
xrogaanthere is just too much in there to check manually, I'd need a keyword17:57
masonfsmithred: I'll have to set up another system to test, as my laptop's using ZFS, not LVM just now, but that looks interesting. I question the quoting a little, and I might have a cleaner alternate I can provide.17:57
masonfsmithred: I can get a VM running today to test.17:57
fsmithredI should test it again, too. I know others have been using it for a long time.17:58
fsmithredcool. Thanks.17:58
masonfsmithred: Why the odd quoting, out of curiosity? As in, why the quoting at all in the vgs= assignment?17:58
fsmithrednot sure17:58
fsmithredhang on...17:58
masonThe quoting in the if [] test is required so it's not a syntax error if empty, but the assignment... I'll exercise it.17:59
masonI also tend to give a definite-positive in tests like that... So the empty test would be something like if [ "X$foo" = "X" ];17:59
fsmithredPatch came from that bug report. I modified the local var assignments to match the newer version18:00
masonI'll get it on my list for today. Also, I still have this notion that we'd ought to do something smarter to identify things that can't be shut down and to allow for graceful retries of things that might, but that's probably too pie in the sky for right now.18:01
fsmithredI'm looking for getting this out the door18:02
fsmithredwe can change it later18:02
masonC.f. both systemd and FreeBSD, which just drop root crypto at the end of the world.18:02
masonYeah, agreed.18:02
fsmithredyeah, the guy in the original debian bug report said he switched to systemd and now it shuts down too fast to see any error messages18:02
xrogaanI need to eat. System seems fine.18:03
fsmithredenjoy your meal. Thanks.18:03
masonfsmithred: FWIW, if he were to turn on persistent journald, he could examine the journal from the last boot on his next boot and see when the shutdown happens. I'm not sure it leaves a visual artifact otherwise.18:03
masonBut anyway.18:04
fsmithredmight be worth trying that later.18:04
xrogaanoh, I don't have sound18:58
masonxrogaan: make sure it's not muted - that's a common initial-setup issue18:59
xrogaanit's pulse audio that isn't started/starting18:59
jpmitchellGood morning all.19:00
jpmitchellIf someone has a moment to help I am having trouble getting updates today. My /etc/apt/sources.list is the same as what is at
jpmitchellBut I am unable to update.19:01
onefangAre you getting an error message?19:02
jpmitchellYep: Err:10 ascii Release19:03
jpmitchell  404  Not Found [IP: 80]19:03
jpmitchellErr:11 ascii-security Release19:03
jpmitchell  404  Not Found [IP: 80]19:03
jpmitchellErr:12 ascii-updates Release19:03
masonxrogaan: Ah, maybe look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf19:03
masonOh well.19:03
onefangYou are better off using directly, the use of country codes is deprecated.19:04
onefangAs of five minutes ago passed the mirror checking.19:06
xrogaanif I launch pulseaudio manually, it starts alright. But the auto start through xfce fails.19:06
masonxrogaan: Ah, maybe look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf19:07
xrogaanthat was it. Thanks19:07
masonxrogaan: Might be worth a bug asking that the default be changed.19:07
xrogaanit's probably a devuan issue though19:08
masonWell, yes.19:08
xrogaanisn't there a report tool so I don't have to deal with bugzilla's UI?19:13
masonIf only it were Bugzilla...!19:13
masonBugzilla has quite a nice UI.19:13
xrogaanhuh, debian BTS then :P19:14
xrogaanit's reportbug19:15
xrogaanI thought there was a GUI for it.19:15
onefangOops, jpmitchell got spam killed due to reporting the error messages.19:16
xrogaanstarts well: Which of the following installed packages is the bug in? -> libpulse0 or libpulse0?19:17
onefangObviously the first one.  B-)19:18
xrogaan> Will send report to Debian (per lsb_release).19:18
xrogaanis that accurate?19:18
xrogaan> Report will be sent to Devuan Bug Tracking System <>19:25
fsmithredwe're not going to fix it19:25
xrogaanneeds to be documented, no?19:26
fsmithredbut we will mention the fix in the release notes19:26
xrogaanmaybe devuan would profit from a small package that "normalize" bad configurations from debian.19:26
onefangWe had that idea long ago, but nothing came of it.19:27
fsmithredwe have discussed it19:27
fsmithredchecking to see if we made a package...19:27
xrogaanoh, it's already in the bts19:28
fsmithredanyway, there's a package in experimental called devuan-sanity that is make to override insane defaults19:28
fsmithredI think all it does is change a vim config19:29
xrogaanah ah19:29
fsmithredif someone wanted to adopt the package they could get fancy and make it do all kinds of things19:30
fsmithredpreferably by asking the user which things they want to do19:30
onefangThough that could quickly turn into a lengthy Q&A session.19:32
xrogaanit needs to trigger after everything, like needrestart19:32
xrogaanand just list the stuff that might be troublesome19:33
xrogaanno Q&A after a full-upgrade, no sir.19:33
xrogaanoh, I forgot the iptables thing. Do we still use legacy with beowulf?19:35
xrogaanI have a set of rules I populate each boot, seems to be working.19:35
furrywolfspeaking of reportbug, I've never been able to make it to work on a desktop, mostly due to local mail issues.  it really should use something else to submit bugs.19:36
furrywolfI think the days where the majority of people have a working local mta are gone.19:43
furrywolf(especially with ISPs now blocking every port you might normally use, AND not providing a server of their own that will forward mail for you)19:44
fsmithrediptables priority is important, nftables priority is extra19:49
xrogaanalright, all I have to do now is to wait for xfce4's update to reach backports19:52
fsmithredI don't think that's gonna happen19:52
xrogaanI'm not staying 10 years with an outdated xfce20:06
DanielTheFoxI continously stand outdated software and hardware20:07
enycI *eventually* got my  Devuan-beowlf desktop  to desktop work properly again... uugh what a mess ;p20:10
enycvery, uerm, 'finnicky' in current hw/sw config20:11
xrogaan/run/user/1000/ is being created, but XDG_RUNTIME_DIR isn't being populated. Something to do with pam?20:16
enycxrogaan: jsut something i'm finding as a user... ascii system upgraded to beowulf .. proving finnicky in many ways20:33
enycIf there can be some  amd64   testing install ISOs i may be able to help on  the same hardware,  see if issues still exist for new-beowulf-install etc20:33
surrealpiei have a problem with apt on devuan, when i run apt update, i get:22:02
surrealpiefailed to fetch: 404 Not Found [IP: 80]22:03
surrealpiewhen i look on the repo there is no file named "Packages", although there is "Packages.gz" and "Packages.xz" but i don't know if that's the problem22:04
onefangThat IP is a little odd.  Are you sure it's and not
onefangYou should be using instead of
onefangAnd most, if not all, Packages fil/es are present on the mirrors as the Packages.gz and Packages.xz files you saw.22:07
onefangIn this particular case, it is indeed the .gz and .xz versions in that directory.22:09
surrealpieoops yeah, its 81, not 9122:11
onefang.81 is my mirror, .91 isn't a Devuan mirror.22:12
surrealpieyeah the error i get says 81, i just typo'd22:12
surrealpiei will try deb.devuan.org22:13
onefangmerged/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages should not exist on any mirror, only the .gz and .xz versions.22:14
surrealpiealright, so apt is just not showing the .gz in message22:15
surrealpiei changed the /etc/apt/sources.list22:16
surrealpieto lines like22:16
surrealpiedeb jessie-security main22:16
surrealpieinstead of auto.mirror.devuan.org22:16
surrealpiei still get similar messages22:19
surrealpiebut now GPG error22:20
surrealpiewith i don't have the GPG error22:21
onefangAh, jessie-updates doesn't exist anymore.22:21
onefangI think that's coz Beowulf hos become, or is about to become, stable, so ASCII is old stable, and only jessie-security gets updates.22:22
onefangOr maybe not just yet.22:23
onefangTry removing jessie-updates.22:23
golinuxauto.mirror has been deprecated for a long time.22:32
fsmithredsurrealpie, when was the last time you did update/upgrade?22:45
fsmithredmake sure you have the newest devuan-keyring22:46
surrealpieyeah, i installed an image but i just realized its from 201722:47
fsmithredyeah, latest devuan-keyring is 2017.10.0322:48
fsmithrednewer than those images22:48
fsmithredis there some reason you must use jessie?22:48
onefangThat'll be why you have deprecated sources and outdated keyring.22:48
gnarfacei think they did remove jessie-backports, jessie-security, and jessie-updates22:48
surrealpiethere seems to be a more recent one, i will try that22:48
onefangjessie-security is still there.22:49
gnarfacesurrealpie: yes, you'll want to try ascii first unless you're in a weird situation22:49
surrealpieweird link from another site got me this old image and i didn't look if it was new22:50
surrealpiealthough the newest one is still from 2018 but with newer version22:50
gnarfacepoke around in here a bit, this one is official22:51
fsmithredascii will work better22:51
surrealpieyeah that's what i got22:51
surrealpiei mean the link22:51
surrealpiegonna go with ascii22:51
surrealpiethx guys22:52
onefangYou are welcome.22:53
gnarfacegood luck.  we'll be here if you need us.22:53
DanielTheFoxhi there guys23:02
DanielTheFoxwhat desktop environment and/or window manager do you recommend me for lightweight (disk and/or RAM) portable (USB HDD) Devuan usage?23:03
fsmithredxfce is the default and is pretty light23:03
DanielTheFoxhas anyone used i3wm btw? (just out of curiosity)23:04
fsmithredyes, there are at least a couple of derivative distros that have offered live-isos with i323:04
DanielTheFoxhow it feels like?23:05
DanielTheFoxcan it display VLC, for instance?23:05
DanielTheFoxor just terminals?23:05
fsmithredI assume it can display any graphical apps.23:05
fsmithredI only tried i3 once for a few minutes.23:05
fsmithredIt's not clicky enough for my tastes, even though I always have at least one terminal open.23:06
DanielTheFoxI'm very terminal-ish23:06
DanielTheFoxalthough sometimes (rather rarely) I fire a GUI up in my main computer23:07
DanielTheFoxjust to browse stuff that requires JavaScript (normally I use links2) or whenever I want to test stuff like VLC23:07
fsmithredcheck out Star Linux or Miyolinux:
DanielTheFoxalso, what is recommended in case I'm not always online on that Devuan install? there appears to be only one DVD23:09
DanielTheFoxhow can I host a local package mirror? (I only need i686)23:10
DanielTheFoxthat is, having set beforehand a size limit23:10
fsmithredI think someone posted instructions for that on the forum23:10
DanielTheFoxlike "I want to host a local mirror that is 8 GB"23:11
fsmithredI think someone said 14GB recently23:11
fsmithredbut that probably holds all arches23:11
DanielTheFoxI thought Devuan was larger23:11
gnarfaceDanielTheFox: how light do you need it to be? twm is still in the repos...23:11
DanielTheFoxgnarface, if it fits in 192 MB RAM, it'll do23:12
DanielTheFoxotherwise, I think I'm fine with xfce, or screen for pure tty1 guys like me23:12
fsmithredjwm and icewm use less than 19223:12
DanielTheFoxoh, like23:12
DanielTheFoxthe entire OS23:13
fsmithredxfce will if you make sure no extra stuff is running23:13
DanielTheFoxincluding kernel, stuff, junk23:13
DanielTheFoxbut not cache23:13
DanielTheFoxbut I start believing I'm asking for either too minimalistic window managers, or for miracles23:14
DanielTheFoxso I'll just stick with screen for low-RAM and non-GUI environments23:14
onefangThe mirrors usually redirect packages we share with Debian to Debian mirrors, so your local mirror could be small if you are happy doing that to.23:14
DanielTheFoxok, I'll read the walkthrough23:15
rrqthe sum of all beowulf/main/i386 package sizes is 69,546,192,646 bytes23:15
DanielTheFoxmaybe I can make it fit within 10 GB23:15
DanielTheFox(installing only the most popular packages and their depends)23:15
fsmithredyou might like the minimal-live iso23:15
DanielTheFoxI'm sure I can do this tradeoff23:16
DanielTheFoxa working install on said USB HDD should use as little space as possible23:16
fsmithredok, minimal-live might be too bloated for your taste23:16
DanielTheFoxhowever, I can afford to use some few GB (but not 50!) on my main HDD23:17
rrqall "required", "important" and "standard" packages fit within 4G23:17
DanielTheFoxfsmithred, I'm happy if an installed and ready-to-work Devuan fits below 1.5 GB23:17
fsmithredthat might be possible with gui. Not sure.23:18
fsmithrednot a lot of apps, though23:18
fsmithredjust cli system it's certainly possible (and pretty easy)23:19
DanielTheFoxDebian without GUI does about 800 MB, but as soon as I decide to install screen, htop, wireless stuff, ffmpeg, mplayer, it gets dangerously close to that23:19
DanielTheFoxthat was, Debian 923:19
fsmithred10 is bigger23:19
fsmithredthat's always the case23:19
DanielTheFoxbut again23:20
DanielTheFoxI think I'm asking for miracles23:20
fsmithredwhy 1.5GB?23:20
DanielTheFoxbecause I want to keep the ext3 partition Devuan uses to a minimum23:20
DanielTheFoxwhich I currently consider to be 3.5 GB23:21
onefangIf I recall, my server OS is about 1.5 GB for the OS itself.23:21
DanielTheFox(the size of a 4 GB USB)23:21
DanielTheFox3.5 - 1.5 = 2.023:21
specingDanielTheFox: why don't you use a filesystem with compression?23:21
DanielTheFoxspecing, the same system is expected to work on low-power machines23:21
fsmithreddoes the OS need to be rw, or would you be ok with read-only on the OS?23:21
DanielTheFoxnot just i7's all around the place23:21
DanielTheFoxand, it needs to be RW23:22
specingDanielTheFox: de-compression is not that expensive compared to GUI23:22
DanielTheFoxspecing, what about compression? (writing to disk) :)23:22
DanielTheFoxmaybe that's all I need23:22
DanielTheFoxalthough I expect it to work on a Pentium III or a 2004 Celeron (the earliest systems that support USB booting)23:23
onefangOh, under 1GB.  B-)23:23
specingDanielTheFox: is that i686 even?23:23
DanielTheFoxit is :P23:23
fsmithredlol, yes23:23
specingah ok, Linux dropped <i586 support iirc23:23
DanielTheFox586 is Pentium (right after 486)23:23
fsmithred686 began with pentium-pro23:23
DanielTheFox686 is probab--23:23
DanielTheFoxI was gonna say Pentium II or MMX23:24
DanielTheFoxbut I wasn't sure23:24
fsmithredanother solution might be to use a bigger usb stick.23:25
onefangWe still have Devuan ASCII for i386.23:25
DanielTheFoxbut oh well23:25
DanielTheFoxI don't know anymore what exactly I want23:25
fsmithredi386 in name only. It's 686.23:25
fsmithredwhat's the goal?23:26
DanielTheFoxother than replicating the 3-DVD Debian trick into a (faster and better) computer with spare HDD23:26
DanielTheFoxwe all know a DVD is 4.3 GiB23:26
DanielTheFox(a KB and a KiB are both 2^10 to my eyes, so I may use them inconsistently)23:27
DanielTheFoxDebian currently allows downloading three DVDs (the first one being 3.5 GiB)23:27
DanielTheFox4.3 + 4.3 + 3.5 = 8.6 + 3.5 = 12.1 (?)23:27
fsmithredand I'll let you slide 'cause I always get confused by that math23:27
DanielTheFoxI'm not sure either23:28
DanielTheFoxso that's roughly 12 GiB23:28
DanielTheFoxand I do have spare 12 GiB on my netbook23:28
onefangThe math is simple, if you are a marketing person, use the bigger sounding numbers, if you are a programmer use powers of 2.  B-)23:28
DanielTheFoxonefang, I was born in 2001, but my favorite computers are all back when Microsoft's name was in every machine a regular household human could ever use23:29
onefangEveryone else has ten fingers, use powers of ten, unless you are from USA.23:29
DanielTheFoxnamely, C64 and no-brand 486-based computers are my favorites, despite not owning either23:30
DanielTheFoxeither Microsoft or IBM introduced the idea of 1 KB = 1024 bytes23:31
onefangI have a couple of 486 PCs here.23:31
DanielTheFoxwhich was great in low-power CPUs in the 70s and 80s because it's easier to shift left 10 bits than to actually MUL by 100023:31
onefangAnd I'm three times your age.23:32
DanielTheFoxnamely, the 65XX CPUs (C64, NES, Apple II, Atari 2600) didn't have MUL (nor DIV) opcode, so a MUL requires dozens of cycles23:32
DanielTheFoxa left shift uses 1 or 2 cycles per shifted bit (unless it was on RAM, which then becomes 7 cycles)23:33
onefangNo need to give me a lesson in these sorts of things.  I was programming them professionally back in the day.23:35
mrpfilserdevuan beowulf: ibgtkmm-3.0-dev : Depends: libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 (= 3.24.0-2) but 3.24.2-1 is to be installed23:36
DanielTheFoxso you know the drill23:36
mrpfilsercan i force install libgtkmm-3.0-dev?23:36
mrpfilseror is this something that package maintainer should be informed-of?23:36
mrpfilserwhy is the depends "=" and not ">="23:37
mrpfilser"your dependency is too new for me" i do not understand23:37
fsmithred3.24.2-1 is in ceres, not beowulf23:37
mrpfilseri reupdate and retry23:38
onefangSometimes newer versions deprecate then remove features, often coz they got replaced by a "better" way.23:38
fsmithredcheck sources.list23:38
mrpfilserall beowulf in sources.list  all packages up-to-date.23:38
onefangSometimes configuration options get changed gratuitously for each version, I'm looking at you tmux.23:39
mrpfilsercan i force install apt install  libgtkmm-3.0-1v5:3.24.0-223:40
onefangAnd sometimes package maintainers screw up.23:40
fsmithredmrpfilser, remove 'testing' from sources.list and replace it with 'beowulf'23:40
mrpfilserhere is /etc/apt/sources.list
fsmithredok, then I don't know why apt wants to install a package from ceres23:42
fsmithredmaybe try 'apt install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-2'23:42
mrpfilserah i am silly apt install  libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-223:42
mrpfilserthank you fsmithred23:42
fsmithredI glad it works, but it still bugs me that apt wanted to do that23:43
mrpfilserwho is the proper person to inform of this?23:43
fsmithredprobably debian23:44
golinuxmrpfilser: Please do not use "testing" in Devuan sources.  It can put you into a world of hurt23:44
fsmithredhe's not23:44
mrpfilseri send email to pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org23:45
fsmithredI would try to figure out why it's doing that first23:45
fsmithredexamine dependencies of the packages involved23:45
fsmithredsomething might be screwed up there23:46
mrpfilserthis is a subbranch problem of a subbranch problem of my real goal so i have to prune it23:48
mrpfilserthanks again23:48

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