freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-01-30

golinuxI need a guinea pig who is using the cinnabar theme on beowulf and has chromium installed.00:04
golinuxAny volunteers?00:05 is being a little slow with the updates right now.00:05
masongolinux: I think we've got a box that matches that description here. No Chromium but that's easy to rectify.03:17
masonI might not be able to get to testing until the morning, but if no one else steps up, send me some details of what you want tested.03:17
fsmithredmason, if you have chromium in beowulf, go to and highlight some text. Note the color of the highlight. Tell us if it matches the cinnabar theme or if it's blue. Or anything else it might be.03:26
masonfsmithred: Ah, I can do that now. Installing.03:26
masonMy daughter's workstation uses Cinnabar I believe. It's reddish XFCE anyway.03:27
fsmithredit has to be the cinnabar theme03:28
fsmithredmake sure it's selected in Appearance and Window Manager in the settings manager03:28
fsmithredtwo places03:28
masonkk, will do - I see cinnabar packages installed03:28
masonwill veirfy03:28
fsmithredif it's not, make sure you remember what it's set to or your daughter will get mad at you.03:29
fsmithredI'm picturing something like my little pony theme03:30
masonUm, cute little animals. But selecting Cinnabar didn't change her background, so that's fine.03:31, went to the screen package, highlighted text has a blue background03:31
golinuxmason go to settings > appearance and what do you see under theme?03:34
masongolinux: Good catch. I had to reset it, and now I see something different but not quite right. It's quite a bit more brown than it ought to be.03:37
golinuxI meant the settings in chromium03:38
masonOh, is there a separate one? Looking.03:38
golinuxChoice is GTK+ or Classic03:39
masonYeah, it's set to GTK+, and evidently starts that way since this was a fresh install of Chromium.03:39
fsmithredsame here03:39
masonSorry for the lag - the machine's at another desk.03:39
fsmithredand for me, the only other choice is to go to the google store03:40
fsmithredno shit03:40
golinuxIs GTK+ iounder "theme" or in the RH box03:40
fsmithredif I click on the checkbox, it sends me to a new tab03:40
fsmithredok, have to click on the words03:40
fsmithredthe checkbox is just bait03:40
masonfsmithred: same; golinux: under theme03:40
yetithe checkbox is for installing more themes03:40
fsmithredand they say pictures are so much better than words03:41
* yeti prefers a shell and --help03:41
golinuxIt needs to say Use Classic in the toggle box which means the GTK+ is being nused03:41
golinuxSorry for the typos.03:41
fsmithredyeah, that's the default setting03:42
golinuxThat works OK here.03:42
fsmithredthat's the default non-setting03:42
yetiGTK+ was default after installing the both here03:42
yeti(chromium on 32 and 64 bit)03:42
masongolinux: Yep, that's what I've got here. The colour is a bit too brown to look right to my eye.03:43
yetidark red wine03:43
fsmithredyes, but as you said, it's hard to interpret with only two themes03:43
yetiI like it03:43
golinuxYes.  I always read that as the one in the box indicating what was chosen but it is the other way around.03:43
yetiits clear when you have 3 or more themes03:43
golinuxYeti could you possibly post a screenshot of multiple themes?03:44
fsmithreddo I have to do something to apply the new theme?03:44
masonWell. One has an action verb, "use classic" - says to me 1) that that means classic isn't currently in use, and 2) the Chromium programmers think like I do, which may not be good03:44
golinuxIt need GTK+ evidently which is the default.03:44
fsmithrednot here03:45
golinuxAm it totally fooled me.03:45
fsmithredhow do I get the blue highlight?03:45
fsmithreddo I need to restart chromium?03:45
golinuxToggle the RH bok03:45
fsmithredyeah, that changes the theme setting03:45
golinuxNow it will be blue03:45
fsmithredno it won't03:46
yetirestart chromium03:46
yetiafter theme change?03:46
yetimodern GUIs make life easier...   *cough²*03:46
golinuxSince the default is GTK+ the theme should work properly on a new install.  It might not is a user has fiddled with those settings.03:47
fsmithredok, now I can get the blue - after restart03:47
masongolinux: Is the brown colour desired/correct?03:47
fsmithredoh, I didn't have to restart to get rid of the blue03:48
fsmithredmason, yes03:48
masonah, kk03:48
mrpfilserit's annoying to work on collab projects where people insist on having their opinion FOLLOWED in matters where they are the least expert in the group03:50
golinuxIt's the solid color of the text editor.color03:50
mrpfilserthis is where having logs is useful03:50
xrogaanWho manage the mailing list?03:50
xrogaanBeen a while since I sent a message, still hasn't arrived.03:50
golinuxmason: Brown does not indicate a color accurately.  #510505 does03:52
xrogaanFollowing the ML, I read there was some spamfilter false hit that sometimes happen.03:52
masongolinux: Not reddish enough, then.03:53
masonI didn't look at the page source to see what it was actually using.03:53
golinuxxrogaan: The ML is moderated.  Let me go unmoderate you03:53
fsmithredmason, you're arguing with someone who can distinguish between 250,000 colors03:54
golinuxmason: It took me weeks to find the right color, on my monitor at least.03:54
golinuxYes, I can see a difference in one increment of the hex code03:54
masonThat's fine. It's not the choice I'd have made, but that's the glory of this whole free software thing. :)03:55
masonPut another way, golinux, if you care about it more and you're putting in the work, you get to pick the colour. :)03:56
golinuxIt looks quite red to me.03:57
golinuxI can only vouch for my own perception on this nice Dell monitor03:57
yetiI see colours differently with each eye... at one time in spring grass still is brown when snow fades away and with the other eye already green03:59
yetiI'll never comment con colours... I promise!04:00
fsmithredyeti, I've noticed the same thing04:00
fsmithredbut with red04:00
yetiok... I feel less alone then...04:00
masonI see different things in each eye in terms of shape, but the colours are usually close enough.04:01
fsmithredwhen I look at the cinnabar colors, I see varying degrees of dried blood04:01
masonfsmithred: That.04:01
onefangWhen I look at dark purpy, I see no purple.04:01
fsmithredit can look gray on some screens04:01
onefangConsidering the Frankenstein bolts on my main monitor, I'm not expecting great colour fidelity.  lol04:02
fsmithredgolinux stuck herself with a pin and watched the blood dry to get the colors right04:03
fsmithred^^^ fake news04:03
onefangAww, and lol.04:03
xrogaangolinux: will you know who I am though? :P04:04
masonI can see the appeal of it. I just tend to think of a text-background highlight colour as typically being lighter than the decorations, and this one's darker than the decorations.04:04
golinuxmason: It a bloody dark theme!04:04
golinuxxrogaan: pm04:04
golinuxI need some info from you . . . maybe.  Let me check the DB04:05
xrogaansu doesn't make the shell a 'login shell' by default, I might have changed something but I can't remember what. Any idea as to where I should look?04:07
fsmithredxrogaan, are you running beowulf?04:07
fsmithredthe behavior of su has changed04:07
fsmithreduse su -04:08
xrogaandamn them all!04:08
fsmithredto get root's path04:08
xrogaanwhy wouldn't I want root's path? Geez.04:08
fsmithredbut then you also get switched to root's home04:08
fsmithredI have no idea04:08
gnarfaceit's about keeping your current user environment so as not to confuse your programs, but still getting root permission04:09
fsmithredother option is to use full path for any command in */sbin04:09
fsmithredyeah, I like to keep the user environment when I switch to root04:09
gnarfacenot just path, the whole environment04:09
* golinux still doesn't understand this new root access thing. 04:09
fsmithredchances are really high that I want to do something in the current directory04:09
* golinux really doesn't like change04:10
gnarfacewait, what changed?  ... i thought you always had to add "-" to get root's environment?04:10
golinuxNope.  Not till beowulf04:10
* gnarface has been doing "su -" the whole time...04:10
fsmithredsu moved from shadow package to util linux04:10
fsmithredwell, just 'su' will keep you in the current directory and give you root privs but not root's path04:11
fsmithredsu - has not changed04:11
fsmithredbut in beowulf you no longer keep the user's ability to start graphical programs04:11
gnarfaceis that actually due to a change in su?  or is it a change to Xorg?04:12
fsmithredI believe it's a change in su04:12
gnarfacehmmm, interesting...04:12
fsmithredthere's a section about it in buster release notes04:12
onefangRoot is new?04:12
fsmithredI like to start gparted or synaptic from a root terminal04:12
fsmithredlol, what?04:13
onefang[13:09:45] *golinux still doesn't understand this new root access thing.04:13
fsmithredonly for those coming from 'buntu04:13
* yeti uses sudo for decades now...04:14
onefangsudo passwd04:14
onefangThen even Ubuntu can have root.  B-)04:14
fsmithredyou'll get banned from the ubuntu forum for posting that04:14
fsmithrednot kidding04:14
onefangLucky this isn't an Ubuntu forum.04:14
onefangBack when I used to use Ubuntu, I'd tend to do that first thing.04:16
fsmithredme too04:16
onefangThat and apt install mc, which I try to do on any box I use.04:16
yetiI see no reason to want ubuntu04:16
masonEh? They document that in a ton of places in the Ubuntu world. They wouldn't ban folks for that, would they?04:17
fsmithredthey cracked down on root info a few years ago04:17
fsmithredmaybe they lightened up since then. I don't know.04:18
masonThat's weird.04:18
masonThen again, they do some weird things, so, eh. Happy I'm here.04:18
onefangI have some test Mint installs, don't think I have any more Ubuntu anywhere.04:18
golinux<fsmithred> they cracked down on root info a few years ago04:20
golinuxMore than a few years ago.04:20
fsmithredthey fly by04:20
kapil_hello, is this rolling release?13:56
mrpfilserit isn't?14:09
mrpfilserseems to be continuously upgrading packages to me14:09
djphmrpfilser: Devuan is not rolling-release.14:14
mrpfilserthen i don't know what that means14:14
nemomrpfilser: the updates in debian and derivatives are security updates14:15
nemomrpfilser: debian snapshots every once in a while based on standard package versions, and then backports critical fixes.  with some exceptions14:15
djphmrpfilser: "rolling release" is a release style wherein releases of programs don't really have a "version" per se.14:16
nemodjph: I was interpreting it as a gentoo-ish type thing where there's no distro versioning really, apart from the profile numbers14:16
nemodjph: since he's presumably talking about the distro and not the linux software in it14:16
djphmrpfilser: as opposed to "point release" (Debian, Devuan, many many other examples) which release a version (e.g. 1.0.0 Jessie or 2.0.0 Ascii) with minor releases in between each major.14:16
nemooh. and I guess all that is really directed at kapil_14:17
djphnemo: yeah, gentoo is a good example of rolling release14:17
nemowho might not realise we are talking about their question otherwise14:17
mrpfilserthanks for explanation14:17
nemomrpfilser: it's a major PITA for poor Hedgewars (the project I contribute to) since we have people who install Debian on their kid's gaming system14:18
nemothen the kid comes by the server asking plaintively where everyone is14:18
kapil_what is difference between gentoo and devuan?14:18
djphand he's 900 versions behind?14:18
nemomrpfilser: problem is they are on a version we released 4 years ago...14:18
nemodjph: hehe14:18
mrpfilseri guess that's why i'm on beowulf14:18
nemodjph: our package maintainer who maintains debian and ubuntu sometimes gets the latest version pushed out into backports using the online play as major broken functionality defense14:19
nemodjph: but a lot of people don't have backports enabled and if they did, have no idea how to install the package14:19
nemodjph: so we devote a lot of time to helping debian kids14:19
djphmrpfilser: beowulf is also in an unstable phase right now; so it changes pretty constantly14:19
mrpfilserhedgewars is very cool but too fast for my slow brain. have you tried Hase artillery shooter nemo ?14:19
nemomrpfilser: too fast? how so?14:19
nemomrpfilser: it's extremely customisable14:19
nemomrpfilser: it's only as fast as you want it to be14:19
nemomrpfilser: can play with infinite turn length if you wish14:20
nemoor with movement turned off14:20
djphnemo: maybe toss in an out-of-band updater ala steam?14:20
nemoor with any level of scripting you like14:20
mrpfilsercan i spectate hedgewars?14:20
djphnemo: easier said than done, of course ...14:20
nemomrpfilser: you can... I'm not going to play right now 'cause I'm at work14:20
nemomrpfilser: could do an intro game or two if you like at some point14:20
nemoshow you the different modes14:20
nemodjph: we have such for windows and OSX14:21
nemodjph: unfortunately we haven't been great at maintaining it14:21
djphshame on you, haha14:21
nemodjph: for linux distros we'd rather not descend into that tarpit14:21
djphso you're in the other tarpit of "distros are slow" :)14:21
nemodjph: our recommendation for people who can't get their distro to cooperate or don't know how to use things like backports is to use some overlay distro14:21
nemodjph: Nix for example14:23
nemodjph: the OSX and Windows folks are pretty good at just installing off the website.  It's the way it's been for so long in OSX/Windows world that no one really questions it14:23
nemodjph: so simply having a nag message on server connect is enough without background stuff. people on old versions there are usually on them for some specific reason14:24
nemo(maybe to play with a debian using friend 😉 )14:24
djphha, yeah14:28
djphlong as there's something to indicate "hey, this is old ..." then you're good enough, I think14:29
nemodjph: oh. beowulf is still unstable? that's good to know14:29
nemobeen that way for a couple of years it seems...14:29
nemounusually long even for a debian derivative14:29
djphnemo: uhh I think tey only started in on it a year or so ago.  Myabe 18 months?14:30
djphJessie was a long time coming too...14:32
mrpfilserso beowulf would be a bad choice security wise, for a corporate environment right?  just pulling in 'newest whatever' would be a bad idea right?14:34
djphit would be a bad choice because it's in testing.14:35
djphperfectly fine for a preprod / QA environment, but prod would certainly want to be ascii14:35
mrpfilserfor me as hobbyist and compiler-of-fun-things, beowulf seems best14:36
fsmithredbeowulf is in testing and will be declared stable soon14:45
fsmithredalmost everything is in place14:45
fsmithred(posted from beowulf)14:46
mrpfilserwhat will be unstable repo name after beowulf?14:49
mrpfilseror testing14:49
nemodjph: seems longer than that...14:49
nemohm... lessee. where's my oldest beowulf iso14:49
djphmrpfilser: something with a "C".  I forget the name offhand, but it was already announced.14:49
djphno, that's unstable14:50
djphand will remain that way14:50
nemofsmithred: oh cool15:06
nemofsmithred: beowulf is safe?15:06
nemofsmithred: I could, say, update the home computers?15:06
fsmithredI've been using it for four weeks15:07
fsmithredlots of packages have been updated recently15:07
fsmithredwe don't have installer isos yet - working on it15:07
djphgonna start making some VMs soon -- nextcloud needs beowulf-level php or some such ...15:07
fsmithredand I should be writing release notes as we speak15:07
Evilhamdjph: I've been using php on beowulf for quite a while15:08
djphfigured on the old standby of 'sed -e s/ascii/beowulf/' < sources.list.old > sources.list15:08
Evilhamso, it should be fine :-D15:08
djphEvilham: yeah, it's more "getting the time to spin up the new VM and then migrate off OwnCloud and onto Nextcloud and ... "15:09
fsmithredall the stuff that we don't repackage has been considered stable for half a year15:09
fsmithrednemo, yes15:09
nemofsmithred: are there any particularly nasty surprises in the stuff you *do* repackage? ☺15:12
nemolike some authentication breaking15:12
Evilhamnothing on my radar15:14
Digitis it normal for /etc/environment to be empty?  or did i make a booboo somewhere in my meddlings?16:47
Digiti type env, and i see 16 lines of environment variables.  less than it was earlier before my various meddling.  i dont recall doing anything to delete /etc/environment's contents, and hadnt checked the file prior, but earlier shells do have many more lines.  should i just (effectively) env > /etc/environment?16:49
Digitah, i checked on a system i'm ssh'd into, and it too doesnt have anything in /etc/environment.   so maybe i'm ok there.  :3  still weird how older panes in my tmux have more environment variables set.16:51
nemoDigit: well I can totally see old tabs accumulating env vars ☺17:07
nemoDigit: maybe pull a diff between the env on the two tabs to see if it is anything interesting17:08
Digitthanks nemo.  good idea.   turns out nothing interesting.17:12
* Digit switches off panic mode17:13
rwpDigit, AFAIK the /etc/environment originated on IBM AIX and now exists on systems so that if someone puts something there it is respected. But mostly an empty file.18:10
rwpDigit, IIRC Ubuntu uses it to set the default PATH.18:10
DonkeyHoteirwp: also default language18:14
DonkeyHoteiprimarily default language18:15
rwpBack on AIX, yes the default language.  But in Debian and downstream the locale setting was moved out of /etc/environment and into /etc/default/locale some time ago.18:19
rwpSince then if one puts locale settings in /etc/environment will be various warnings about the location move.18:20
DonkeyHoteihmm, on ubuntu 14.04 i have LC_ALL in both files18:21
DonkeyHoteibut LANG and LANGUAGE only in /etc/default/locale18:21
DonkeyHoteiand PATH only in /etc/environment18:21
rwpTo be clear /etc/environment is respected and used if it is not empty.  So anything you have there behaves as expected.18:22
rwpI know that Ubuntu puts PATH information in there for example.18:22
rwpBut I am coming here from a Debian base and in Debian it is an empty file on a pristine installation.18:22
rwpTry this (for example): grep /etc/environment /etc/init.d/cron18:25
rwpOn my system this is what I see:
nemoI have a sucky annoying package here I have to run that was packaged for ubuntu.19:02
nemoIt has a buggy kernel module hook that I had fixed in ascii...19:03
nemofor some reason, it does not seem to be reinstalling properly after I run the dpkg -i in beowulf.  DEBIAN/postinst is always called as usual right? there was no change to that recently?19:03
mrpfilseris there no option to compile it nemo ?19:05
golinuxnemo remember that the path might be different in beowulf.19:05
golinuxPlease don't expect me to explain it.19:06
nemohm. guess I'll add some echoes to postinst19:16
nemolooks like I hit the copies. whaaat19:32
nemooh. I see. my fixed header is missing somehow. oops19:33
nemohm. isn't even on this machine. odd19:33
mrpfilsergnome chanced my font size again because i have a 4k display21:02
mrpfilserand now my fonts are all CARTOONISHLY LARGE21:02
mrpfilserweb says change dpi with "gnome-tweak-tool" well that's deprecated21:03
mrpfilserreplaced by gnome-tweaks, but that cannot change dpi size21:03
mrpfilserand everything else i try to change dpi size leaves me with CARTOONISHLY LARGE FONTS21:03
fluffywolfapt-get install xfce421:03
mrpfilserXresources? nope21:03
fluffywolf(or apt-get install icewm)21:04
mrpfilserno, xfce4 chews up so much cpu my system dies21:04
mrpfilseri want GTK2 and 3 to BEHAVE, not install someone else's DE21:04
mrpfilseri had this all setup perfectly21:04
mrpfilsergimped tool kit21:05
nemogolinux: finally remembered what I was doing with that stupid package, but linux kernel headers have changed a fair amount between ascii and beowulf and my fixes to their stupid bitrotted code have further rotted21:17
nemogolinux: appears they bundle a static binary module for ubuntu major releases and src based they include wasn't updated to keep pace21:18
nemothis annoying product called Cylance btw. and their tech support was just "your fault for not using ubuntu"21:19
golinuxYou were using a 'buntu kernel on devuan?21:20
golinuxNo wonder things went south.  Maybe I misread . . .21:20
nemogolinux: I'm trying to install a "security" tool I'm required to install21:21
nemogolinux: it adds a kernel module for its custom rootkit the workplace wants21:22
nemogolinux: basically if I can't get it loaded on devuan I have to put ubuntu on my laptop21:22
nemoand I'd rather not21:22
nemogolinux: so I've gotta maintain their stupid bitrotted headers that they thankfully still include so they work with whatever kernel changes occur.   getting ascii to work was fairly easy, just removing some stuff that debian doesn't enable21:23
nemobeowulf looks like it'll be more work due to changes to the task scheduling21:23
Lydia_KThat sounds disgusting in so many ways nemo.21:25
Lydia_KYou have my condolences.21:25
Humnemo: Can you tell the name of the software, can you post a link?21:26
mrpfilseroh restarting X got things to recover to my chosen dpi.  maybe i justeded need to xrdb idk21:41
saciozhi all22:08
gnarfacehi sacioz.  if you have a question, just ask.  this is usually a pretty quiet channel.22:09
gnarfaceyou might have to wait a while for a response.22:09
saciozThanks , but just looking around22:09
saciozfirst timer, see )))22:09
gnarfacei know, because you said hi :)22:10
saciozno harm done one hopes22:10
gnarfaceno harm done.  but greetings don't usually get responses in here.22:11
saciozfair enuff22:11
gnarfacelots of newcomers leave frustrated because they think it's abandoned.22:11
gnarfaceso when i see someone saying "hi" i try to encourage them to lead with questions22:12
sacioznot I , seen quite a few nicks22:12
gnarfacequestions will usually get responses, though not always quickly22:12
gnarfacegreetings often go ignored22:12
gnarfaceor at least unacknowledged22:12
saciozMany thanks , will go out for a bit22:13
saciozmay return s/time later , bye for now22:13
gnarfacefeel free to idle.  nobody cares if you take up seat space22:13
saciozlol ...I wish...other things to do...22:14
mrpfilseri wish urxvt rendered faster. it's so slow on arm boxes22:21
tuxd3vI use xterm, and its ok23:12
* Digit <3s st, fish, his own fonts(dbtfc)/colours/configs, and all seems crisp in xmonad afahct.23:13
tuxd3vDigit, st is lighter than xterm?23:21
Digiti'd say so in some ways.  seemingly less so in others.    ... idk, i've poor metrics on it, just my poorly informed perceptions.  one has a bigger codebase, the other is more shiny.  :323:24
* ErRandir uses sakura but is always looking for something better23:28
mrpfilserxterm is fast.  why am i not using it.23:32
mrpfilseroh yeah url highlighting - can has?  tuxd3v ?23:32
mrpfilseror rather application launching of url or particular mimetypes23:33
tuxd3vthe thing that anoyes me much in xterm is the selection... it has not selection by series of chars, you can go there with the mouse over, but its a pain to select, also the clipboard does not work, or what it does is a bit diferent..23:36
tuxd3vapart from that, it works just fine :)23:37
tuxd3vno,,, urls in my opinion should not start things in the shell23:37
tuxd3vI think that is dangerous..23:37
mrpfilserah interesting23:38
mrpfilseri do decide which ones to open23:38
tuxd3va terminal emulator is like religion :D23:38
mrpfilserso it's equivalent to me hilighting them manually and pasting into browser23:38
mrpfilserit is indeed23:38
mrpfilserbut the parser could have errors hacked by a bad url, i guess23:39
tuxd3vhow to you increase the size of the letters in stterm ?23:39
tuxd3vin xterm you just shift+{'+' || '-' }23:40
tuxd3vDigit, does you know any fastway to augment the size of the letters in stterm?23:41
Digitin stterm... no.  unless that's the same as st.  in which case: shift+ctrl+pgup/pgdn.  :)23:42
Digittuxd3v: it's in the man page too.  :)23:44
tuxd3vdon't see it :(23:45
tuxd3vyes I do, thanks :)23:45
Digit(i think that was default... dont think i'd have set it as that).   there will be controls listed somewhere else besides the shortcuts section of the man page too.23:45
Digiti think we're easily forgiven for not reading the vast intimidating tome of the xterm man page, but st's is brief.  :)23:47
djphDigit: no you're not. :P23:48
tuxd3vbut those controls don't work..23:48
Digitwhat if i'm dyslexic?  not easily forgiven even then?   do i have to pipe the whole xterm man page through flite while i sleep?  n_n23:49
djphDigit: yes.  also, it needs to be printed on at least one set of bedsheets, so you can absorb as you sleep23:49
tuxd3vAlt-Shift-Page Up23:50
tuxd3v              Increase font size.23:50
tuxd3vdoesn't work here23:50
Digittry ctrl like i & it say.   not alt.23:55
Digitor did i change that?  and it automatically changes the man page, because changes are in the source...?23:57

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