freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-02-07

TwistedFateis there a good program for gnu+linux that properly shows RAM usage? htop and the likes are too chaotic and inconclusive. i want to know what's using my RAM :/00:34
gnu_srsfree -h?00:41
fsmithredyeah, ps_mem.py00:42
gnu_srstop; hit M and you'll find out :)00:42
gnu_srsof course followed by ps aux|grep <PID>00:45
gnu_srsfsmithred: Where did you install it? apt-cache search ps_mem: <empty>00:50
fsmithredgotta find it on the web. I put it in /usr/local/bin/00:50
gnu_srsand even ps_mem.py00:50
fsmithredI see several, and I don't know which one I got.00:51
avbox@fsmithred: I once again installed my avmultimedia with elogind, no sound at all, but lot of messages /run/user/1000 not availabe. Point is, it does open /run/user/0. Any ideas, what's the difference or how to change it?00:58
fsmithredavbox, sounds like policykit stuff00:58
fsmithredbut that's just a guess00:59
fsmithredgnu_srs, this is the top hit, but it looks different from what I'm using. I think I'm using an older version of this. You just need the one python script.
avbox@fsmithred Looks like elogind does run pulseaudio with root, nut user rights, so sound does not work. Any ideas?01:58
fsmithredapt remove pulseaudio?02:01
fsmithredavbox, did you edit /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf?02:04
avboxfsmithred: I just killed Xorg, then restarted it, now sound is there (/run/user/1000). About removing pulseaudio, sound control panel in Mate does need it if I remember correct.02:04
fsmithredok, make sure autospawn isn't disabled02:05
avbox@fsmithred I tried this, yes, autospan is not disabled.02:06
avbox@fsmithred: Any ides how to force elogind to use normal user (1000)?02:10
fsmithredno. pulseaudio is run as user here02:11
fsmithredwhat display manager are you using?02:12
avbox@fsmithred Mate 1.2202:13
masonavbox: I missed earlier conversation. Are you haveing an issue with PulseAudio?02:13
avboxmason, yes since switching from libsystemd (due to installation of falkon web browser) to elogind, sound does not work any more.02:14
masonavbox: Did you tweak PulseAudio's systemd-sensitive config? I'll find it, forgetting.02:15
masonavbox: /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf02:16
avboxfsmithred, no not lightdm, startx is started directly from user (no login) or with login (then it is slim)02:17
masonavbox: Another thing to poke is group "audio" membership.02:17
masonBetween the two, you should have sound.02:17
avboxmason: normal user is in audio, any more needed?02:18
masonavbox: That should do it. Did you check the autospawn setting?02:19
fsmithredhe did02:19
avboxYes, auotspawn is 00-disable-autospawn.conf => autospawn=no02:19
fsmithredthe problem exists whether you start with startx or slim?02:20
masonafter setting group membership, you'll want to log that user out and back in to pick up the new group02:20
chillfanyeah you want a full log out too, don't just quit the wm, make sure you log back in again02:28
chillfanthe amount of times I've forgotten that after quitting the wm.. then wondered why my sound is broke02:29
avbox@fsmithred No difference between slim or starting directly with startx02:44
avbox@fsmithred: Sorry, correction with slim, it works (only channel [Speaker was not set] was wrong). So I have to look there. I need to go to sleep. Thank you for your help.02:51
fsmithredgood luck02:51
hemimaniacheya peeps06:35
hightower3Centurion_Dan, hey, were you working on ppc64el? Any recent news/state?11:00
* GyrosGeier would also be interested11:14
i686installerHi, I want to install devuan on an eeepc with i686. Which iso do choose? This one:, Thanks in advance12:36
gnarfacei686installer: no the one that has i386 in the name12:39
gnarfacei686installer: (it is actually i686)12:40
gnarfacei686installer: you're welcome.  good luck, let me know if you need any help.12:52
GyrosGeierdoes the eeepc have cmov?13:56
rrqGyrosGeier: my "Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270" has cmov13:59
nemo  devuan does not seem to be using this key?14:04
nemowhere would I find the repo keys?14:04
nemoErr:1 beowulf InRelease The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY BB23C00C61FC752C14:06
nemospecing: oh. a hedgewars question. oh well. too late14:11
nemohm. maybe I should just try devuan-baseconf14:16
nemopresumably it still works14:17
nemonow where to get it..14:19
nemoah good it's still on the mirrors14:20
nemo   I guess14:20
nemodammit. pubkeys still wrong14:21
nemoI thought that one added them. guess they changed14:21
onefangmerged/pool/DEVUAN/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb   Is that what you are looking for?14:23
nemoah. probably14:25
nemosite is out of date I 'spose14:26
nemoI wonder if the devuan-baseconf package has any purpose at all or if I should just remove it for tidiness14:26
nemohm. well this is worrying14:31
nemofiddling with seeing if I can switch a VPS from debian 10 to beowulf14:31
nemoapt dist-upgrade  prompts to remove both installed kernels ☺14:32
nemo  linux-image-4.19.0-5-cloud-amd64 linux-image-4.19.0-6-cloud-amd6414:32
nemoI'm preeeeetty sure that's not a good idea 😉14:32
nemohm... everything seems... fine now?14:44
nemono suspicious autoremoves, init system seems fine after reboot...14:47
nemowhee. I've got something I'm familiar with. huzzah14:47
nemo  this was helpful14:53
nemoshame it is dead14:53
fsmithrednemo, you can remove devuan-baseconf. It serves no purpose.15:02
xrogaanit doesn't?15:14
nemofsmithred: yeah, didn't seem to supply keys, it did provide a pin to prevent systemd, but I guess that's useless these days?15:15
fsmithredyeah, you don't need the pin.15:16
fsmithredand you don't need to exclude Suggests because they don't get automatically installed15:16
fsmithredand the extra list that shows the supposed developer repos is misleading15:17
Evil_Bobhi, could anyone explain to me how devuan tracks upstream packages? in particular beowolf/testing in relation to debian? thanks15:37
fsmithredbeowulf pulls from buster.15:38
chillfanAside from things we have that debian hasn't we pull them in from Debian and make them work in Devuan15:39
chillfanhasn't got*15:39
chillfanmeaning they shouldn't rely on systemd usually, so are forked to remove it15:39
fsmithredusing words like testing or stable can be confusing because we're not on the same schedule as debian15:41
fsmithredbuster is stable, beowulf has same versions of software but is still in testing15:41
fsmithredactually has the same packages except for a few15:41
Evil_Bobok that makes sense now, thank you15:42
fsmithredif you use "testing" or "stable" in sources.list, you will surely screw up the system.15:42
fsmithredwe just use the codenames15:42
Evil_Bobyeah, im using "beowulf" and read the devuan pages15:43
chillfanyeah release in beowulf are like "hard releases" rather than symlinking. But anyway these days Debian do not recommend using "stable" or "testing" either since you will upgrade to a new release automatically at the end of a cycle15:43
masonfsmithred: Well. 'testing' and 'stable' mean Devuan testing and stable. They work. But unless you want to always stay on the local definition of testing, codenames provide more control.15:48
nemofsmithred: oh. hm. just how extensive is the fork these days? is it a significant number of packages to maintain?15:54
fsmithredmason, if you use testing or stable in sources.list you will pull newer packages from debian than from devuan15:54
fsmithredright now15:54
fsmithredonce beowulf is stable, they'll be the same again15:55
fsmithredI think I saw a number around 300 for packages we fork. I think half of them are task-language packs15:55
Evil_Bobim trying to get video to work (AMD RX480, amdgpu driver), but it has
masonfsmithred: I thought Amprolla was doing the right thing with keywords... I'll double-check. Odd.15:57
James1138Anyway to purge language packs after install?15:57
fsmithredJames1138, remove the locales package15:58
fsmithredyou could also run bleachbit to get rid of language files15:58
James1138Thanks fsmithred. I give that a try. I looked and thought "I doubt I will need Japanese, Chinese, French...etc"16:00
chillfanI think Debian used to have a package for removing locales, not sure what happened to it16:00
fsmithredoh yeah - localepurge16:00
chillfanyeah that one, they might have removed it since in later releases16:01
fsmithredit still exists16:01
fsmithredin all suites16:01
chillfanah that's handy16:01
chillfananyway if you try that (apt install localepurge) it should remove all locales except those you're using16:02
fsmithredI should remember that one - I got in trouble once for running that on refracta before a release (to make the iso smaller)16:02
fsmithrednon-english users were not happy16:02
masonIf you ask for 'stable' you get 'ascii'. If you ask for 'testing' you get 'beowulf'.16:03
chillfanhaha yeah I can imagine, I'm sure they simmered down when they realised it was accidental16:03
chillfanhow long has refracta been around now? I've never used it but I seem to remember it being around for a while16:05
fsmithredmason, yeah it looks like that, but I know people have screwed up their systems.16:06
fsmithredchillfan, first releases were lenny, and I took over with squeeze.16:07
chillfana lot of history there16:08
James1138Wow THANKS chillfan!!16:11
chillfanyou're welcome. So localepurge worked out ok?16:12
James1138Yes it did.16:12
chillfanI need to make a note of it so I don't forget then16:12
James1138Ran it from root terminal and worked without a hitch.16:12
chillfanit's probably the "cleanest" way to do it16:14
chillfanbut you can check if you still have any lang packs and remove them if you do16:14
James1138I found that I cannot delete locales because it would also remove "Google Earth".16:21
chillfanIf removing locales will remove google earth, I may have to remove mine.. google won't be pleased but that's all to the better16:22
fsmithredyeah, that wasn't a very good suggestion16:23
GyrosGeierchillfan, you can reduce the number of locales that are available16:29
GyrosGeierbut generally a dependency on locales is a bit wrong16:30
chillfanyeah, I never install them really.. but sometimes I get garbage output so, probably should install the ones I need16:30
GyrosGeierI usually have the locales for the union of all languages that the users on a system speak16:31
chillfanah, when I install for others I just let the installer do what it wants16:32
GyrosGeierif it's just for me, then I at least have de_DE.UTF-8, en_US.UTF-8 and ja_JP.UTF-816:33
GyrosGeierI believe the C.UTF-8 locale is always built16:33
GyrosGeieryou definitely want that one to work16:33
chillfanyeah though you can swap it for an iso locale16:34
chillfaniso-8859-1 I think, but off the top of my head so could be wrong16:34
GyrosGeiereven my Amiga is on ISO 8859-15 these days16:36
chillfanWhat are you running on the Amiga?16:36
GyrosGeiermight do an m68k port later16:37
chillfanAh, do they still have releases?16:37
GyrosGeierbut only if I'm very bored and find a quieter fan16:37
GyrosGeierit's complicated16:37
GyrosGeierbasically, bankrupt companies buying the rights to the name from other bankrupt companies16:38
chillfanthat would explain some things16:38
golinuxhightower3: Looks promising for you:
golinuxDan said he was going to email you but guess he forgot to do so.17:47
hightower3apart from the inconvenience of posting private mails to mailing lists... yes, looks promising :)17:48
nemofsmithred: hm. 300 is definitely way more than I thought :/  I do hope the changes aren't huge20:25
nemodon't want you guys to get overwhelmed20:25
fsmithredas I said, most of those get done with the task-*-desktop packages. It's just a matter of getting the dependencies right.20:26
fsmithredwe hope we don't get overwhelmed, too20:27
nemoyeah, don't know enough about debian to totally understand first or 2nd time you explained, but sounds like it's semi-automated trivial changes usually20:30
flrnI might have triggered a configuration bug (ascii netinstall to beowulf installation) with connman21:36
flrnwhen eth0 is configured in /etc/network/interfaces and not blacklisted in /etc/connman/main.conf, with a mounted cifs share, the shutdoen stalls for 3 minutes21:38
flrneth0 is already down by connman, cifs can't unmount21:40
flrnI am /quite/ shure, that I didn't edit /etc/network/interfaces manually.21:40
xrogaanoh, I don't know about connman at all.21:47
xrogaanmy config is set in the files, no need for tools.21:47
flrnyes, that's how I keep it with desktop configurations. more for the record resp. to prepare a bug report21:49
flrnhoping for confirmation, so I won't have to reproduce it21:51
flrnI mean confirmation, that in a default LXqt installation the installations default interface is not blacklisted in connman's conf21:53
flrnresp. that the connman config coexists with the /etc/network/interfaces entry21:54
flrnfrom the shutdown log:21:55
flrn[ OK ] Stopping Connection Manager:.21:55
flrn[ OK ] ...21:56
flrn[info] Hardware Clock upated to...21:56
flrn3 minutes break21:56
flrn[ timestamp ] CIFS VFS: Server donkey.lan has not respondet in 180 seconds. Reconnecting...21:56
chillfanhm what is connman? I seem to have forgotten21:56
flrn[....] Deconfiguring network interfaces...Removed stale PID file21:56
flrnthe default connection manager coming with the LXqt desktop21:57
flrnnot sure if it was present in ascii21:57
chillfanhave you checked
flrnin beowulf it is21:57
flrnno, but I should have stumbled on it when troubleshooting21:58
flrnyes, before I caught the shutdown log21:59
flrnno related connman bugs in bugs.debian.org22:07
James1138flrn: have you considered a updated version of connman?
flrnI don't use connman, just have it by the default LXqt installation.22:16
flrnAnd will keep it (disabled, with eth0 blacklisted in its config) for occasional use with VPN, WiFi or testing ofono22:18
tom-mediapcIs there a gtk2 version of apt I can install?22:19
tom-mediapcor i mean synaptic22:19
chillfanah you mean it's changed to gtk3?22:25
golinuxSynaptic has been infected with gtk3 since ascii.22:34
chillfanah, well I always used to find gtk2 was resource heavy until hardware made big improvements.. now we need to swap it for gtk3 so we can feel the burn of bad performance again22:35
fsmithredflrn, that's weird that /etc/network/interfaces has eth0 listed in lxqt. I'm looking at it now.22:37
chillfangtk2 and gtk3 are both ugly. qt is not but you get the kitchen sink with it, any package that wants qt wants about 200 qt deps, instead of being sensible about it22:40
chillfanwell, with gtk2 you can improve its looks but yeah22:41
fsmithredand eth0 is not blacklisted in /etc/connman/main.conf. Nothing is blacklisted. Just commented examples.22:43
fsmithredI can't test with cifs, but mounted nfs does not delay shutdown (unless the delay is getting lost in the delay caused by encrypted root). But I do see that the network is unreachable before it tries to unmount root.22:57

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