freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-02-08

flrnfsmithred: I assume the commented out "default values" are hardcoded01:32
flrn^^^in connman's main.conf01:33
OksanaRecent upgrade from ascii to beowulf has brought me warning that libpam-modules are not quite compatible with xscreensaver, and xscreensaver, if running, would lock users out and not allow them to login back to their session?01:56
gnarfacethat seemed to be a statement, despite that you punctuated it as a question01:57
OksanaWhat can be done to resolve the problem? Does it require reboot, to make xscreensaver aware of new libpam-modules?01:57
gnarfacei don't know, but i am assuming you need a patch for one or the other or both01:58
OksanaQuestion is two-fold: did anybody else see such an occurrence, and how it could possibly be resolved?01:58
gnarfacei didn't see it but i have not tested beowulf that extensively01:59
gnarfacetheoretically though you might be able to downgrade one of the two packages temporarily to regain functionality until someone patches them01:59
fsmithredOksana, no, I haven't seen that and I've done a few upgrades to beowulf with xscreensaver02:10
fsmithredmaybe install libpam-elogind02:10
fsmithredor maybe run dist-upgrade again if something didn't make it the first time02:11
flrnthe shutdown delay is probably totally unrelated to the interfaces entry, but is it a connman or an init issue then?02:31
Oksanafsmithred: Installation of libpam-elogind weirds me out. While removal of libsystemd0 is welcome, I would not want to have consolekit removed?03:04
Oksanalibpam-ck-connector seems to be already installed, the newest version, 1.2.1-803:05
fsmithredoh, I didn't know you had consolekit03:08
fsmithredxscreensaver should still work03:08
fsmithredOksana, what desktop are you using?03:11
OksanaSeems to be working now, thank you for calming me down :-) It did briefly lock me out, right after libpam-modules upgrade, when I clicked "Lock Screen" and xscreensaver would show username with no textbox to type password into - so I had to kill it from a Ctrl+Alt+F2 command-line. Apparently, such xscreensaver restart was quite sufficient.03:12
Oksanafsmithred: Xfce03:12
gnarfaceOksana: in general, when you upgrade a library, programs still running will hold onto a cached copy of the old version until restarted.03:13
gnarface(or until a cache flush is forced by something else, in which case they'll just crash)03:14
OksanaIn this case, it was something inbetween, where xscreensaver would neither crash voluntarily, not proceed working normally, but instead worked abnormally... Upgrade of libpam-modules did warn about this, without saying how it could be resolved.03:19
gnarfacewell, i'm confident it would have crashed eventually03:19
gnarfacebut it honestly could have taken days03:20
OksanaAt least, I have my lock-screen functionality back, now :-)03:20
gnarfaceyes, that's the important part03:21
OksanaGetting switch-user to work is for another month. Hasn't ever worked since I installed Linux on this SSD (after my HDD was worn out - after ten years of existence).03:21
fsmithredhttps://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=45279#p4527903:29
fsmithredOksana, ^^^ the command is in libgdm103:30
OksanaHuh, dm-tool switch-to-greeter works! Going to try creating this gdmflexiserver....03:33
fsmithredoh yeah, dm-tool. I forget about these things because I don't use them.03:39
Oksanafsmithred: It's all in the link you posted :-) Thank you! While it is grey, for now, I expect that some time later (after restart or something) it will become enabled in GUI.03:53
fsmithredlog out and in again03:53
OksanaLol, too lazy to lose my session. Will wait till something crashes/updates/restarts/whatever.03:54
DarwinElfi need to boot Devuan 2.1 from GRUB2 on LibreBoot, which when I go to detect CD, displays Devuan then exits back to the main menu.  I'm wondering if you distributed a UEFI CD without an option for older hardware such as usually LibreBoot runs on, and just people with older PCs...08:37
DarwinElfcan't believe you made an ISO that only has /boot/grub/*efi* bootable.  Thanks for making me one coaster08:55
DarwinElfmaybe I sort of spoke too soon; GRUB2 started to boot (ahci1)/linux (on my T500) but then had kernel panic09:00
DarwinElfthe even more Unix-like Slackware boots :)  However has too old libraries to update CoreBoot/LibreBoot09:00
DarwinElfso I guess take a look at how Slackware does their boot process to make some improvement09:01
DarwinElfthe joke (on Uncyclopedia) was it's used to run the Debian.org servers because they never release (the joke was in the 1990s I guess)09:02
DarwinElfa few years ago Linus removed 386 from the Linux kernel... maybe now he's also removed the Core 2 that T500 uses?  I doubt it, but something's not working with the kernel on Devuan 2.1 to boot that09:04
DarwinElfDebian 9.4 (not sure about to 10) also booted on it but I don't want to use systemd09:09
gnarfaceDarwinElf: are you sure there isn't another one?09:17
gnarfacea non-uefi one?  i thought there was...09:17
DarwinElfi guess they're just on the same CD but I got a kernel panic09:17
gnarfaceit might be unrelated09:18
DarwinElfit seems you just boot the file called 'linux' in the root of the CD09:18
gnarfacehmmm09:18
DarwinElfit probably is unrelated, nevertheless is a crappier kernel than some time ago09:18
gnarfacewhich kernel?09:18
DarwinElfwhatever you have on Devuan 2.109:19
gnarfacetry booting in safe mode?09:19
DarwinElfyou don't even get to that option09:20
gnarfacetry appending these to the grub command-line:  noapic nolapic acpi=off09:20
DarwinElfstill crashes09:21
gnarfacesame spot every time?09:22
DarwinElfyou see, properly detecting that it's classic BIOS (not UEFI) and doing things like that is what the most Unix-like distributions do, even properly booting its ISOLINUX and not needing to try this command-line.  This needs improvement09:22
DarwinElfyes09:22
gnarfaceshow me where you downloaded this iso09:22
DarwinElffrom the official site in the topic09:23
gnarfaceshow me the exact link09:23
DarwinElfamd64 Devuan ASCII 2.1 somewhere on deb.devuan.org ... can't find the link now, because the FTP structure setup doesn't make very much sense compared to ones like Slackware either... now I looked for where I thought it would be, but there's just some text file.  I did get it from there somewhere09:27
DarwinElfit's called devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso09:27
gnarfacewhat's the machine in question? model #?09:29
DarwinElfT50009:29
gnarfacewhat brand?09:29
gnarfacethinkpad?09:29
DarwinElfthere's only one brand; Lenovo Thinkpad09:29
DarwinElffirst I got https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii.torrent .  It just wasn't being seeded, so I got the file from deb.devuan.org , copied it into my torrent location, verified it, and am now seeding that file.  So you can be sure it's the correct file09:30
gnarfacewell, the kernel could just be too old09:31
DarwinElfmore like it's too new09:31
gnarfacethe one in ascii?  possible but unlikely, if you didn't get an upgrade before it crashed09:32
DarwinElfthe kernel developers don't care about Core 2 anymore.  They care about Ryzen 3900+ and Core i7+09:32
DarwinElfwhy would I have gotten an upgrade if it never even booted yet?09:32
gnarfaceyou wouldn't.  my point exactly09:32
DarwinElfaha09:33
gnarfacebut i'm running that same exact distro on several machines here and i didn't have any problems with a single one of them. not even the core 2 duos09:33
gnarfacei'm pretty sure i even used that same iso on at least a few of them09:33
gnarfacewhat is the exact error it actually crashes on for you?09:34
DarwinElfwell there's so much I'm not sure I see it all... some stuff scrolls off the page then some of the next lines start with: end kernel panic09:35
DarwinElfnot syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)09:35
DarwinElfbut I didn't ask it to mount this09:35
gnarfaceoh, but that's bad09:35
gnarfacethat means it couldn't find your / partition09:35
DarwinElfi also have a very old Kali GNU/Linux on it (Debian-based) which I think does the same thing09:36
DarwinElfSlackware, again, does find this fine :)09:36
gnarfacebut you're booting them all with the same Grub install?09:36
DarwinElfyes09:36
gnarfacethen it has to be a problem with the lines you put in the grub install09:36
gnarfacemaybe compare them to the ones that work and figure out what went wrong09:36
DarwinElfnot really.  I didn't put any lines in09:36
gnarfacemaybe your bios renamed them and confused the installer, that happens sometimes with misbehaved bioses09:37
DarwinElfhmm...09:37
gnarfacemy point is, you have to check to make sure it's even looking in the right place09:37
gnarfacebecause that error said it wasn't there when it looked09:37
DarwinElfthey used to say CoreBoot/LibreBoot was a BIOS... but I don't think it even is09:37
gnarfacethere's not a lot that will actually cause the kernel to panic, but not being able to find the install is one of them09:37
DarwinElfit just loads GRUB2 which searches HDDs09:37
DarwinElfthe actual configuration is in the Slackware installation09:38
gnarfaceit is human-readable09:38
gnarfacecheck it out09:38
DarwinElfyes09:38
gnarfacetry to actually figure out the drive and partition numbers09:38
gourmorning09:38
DarwinElfit was just generated with grub-mkconfig09:38
DarwinElfnothing else could've changed it09:38
gourslim does not autolock my (gnome) keyring, so wonder how does ligthdm perform under devuan?09:39
gnarfacelightdm should be faster than slim09:39
gourgnarface: it runs well with sysvinit?09:40
gnarfacei dunno i don't use it09:40
gourwhat do you use?09:40
DarwinElfi know the drive partition numbers, just an installer shouldn't be looking for partitions until you've asked it to.  Maybe I was going to hotplug a HDD or SSD; maybe there is no partition yet.  Maybe I've just plugged one in but there's no partition table yet, because that's kind of one thing I'm hoping the installer will let me do after it boots09:40
gnarfacegour: usually just the text login. then i run "startx" manually if i need a GUI09:40
DarwinElfand that's where this becomes less Unix-like again09:41
gnarfaceDarwinElf: just fyi, despite all your mad smack talking at this point i'm about 85% certain your issue is self-inflicted09:42
gourgnarface: ok, thanks. let me try lightdm...09:42
DarwinElfi'm not mad and there really isn't a serious issue, rather than issues with only certain kernel versions or certain installers--while others still work fine09:43
gnarfaceDarwinElf: yes but somehow i have a strong suspicion that it would have worked if you hadn't tried to piggyback off an old grub install from another distro.  doing that might require manual tweaking09:45
gnarfaceDarwinElf: do you have a spare USB key you can try the live image with?09:45
gnarface(or another cd if you can spare it)09:45
gnarfacei'm not sure if it's cd or dvd actually i always use a usb key these days09:46
DarwinElfit's not from another distro.  It's in LibreBoot09:46
gnarfaceactually IN it?09:46
gnarfacehmmm09:46
DarwinElfyes09:46
DarwinElfwhich won't boot USB though09:46
gnarfaceawww :(09:47
DarwinElfi have loads of CDs/DVDs though09:47
DarwinElfblank09:47
gnarfaceso, if you can get the live iso, fyi you can install from that too09:47
gnarfaceor you could maybe repair this install09:47
DarwinElfok09:47
DarwinElfi don't need to repair Kali, and Slackware still boots (even as of a few minutes ago after I described the kernel panic)09:48
DarwinElfand also mounts Kali's partition09:48
gnarfacei still would like to see a test of the installer to a blank harddrive, but i know that's not very practical, especially with a laptop09:48
DarwinElfi've now also booted an installation CD of one of the newer-than-Debian, but non-systemd distributions, successfully... doesn't kernel panic.  I want to avoid mentioning which, because I think Devuan is still genuinely more Unix-like, or tries... this other one did a stupid thing when it booted and said it scrambled the root password, or even has one.  Unix doesn't force you to use a password (well, unless it's OpenBSD, since security-focused)09:49
gnarfacepart of the issue here you see might be different grub versions munging the config09:49
gnarfacesince you're just blindly using different installers on one machine09:50
DarwinElfi'm not blindly using different installers09:50
DarwinElfLibreBoot has GRUB2 built-in, and Slackware has it as an option but isn't the one I actually use09:50
DarwinElfhmm... well LibreBoot's GRUB2 just should probably make up it's own configuration09:51
DarwinElfwhy would it even need a configuration to boot a CD rather than something on the HDD?  It doesn't09:51
DarwinElfif one can find it (not in their main manual) you just type commands like you suggested earlier09:52
gnarfacewell presumably libreboot should give you some level of control similar to what a bios would09:52
gnarfacebut i'm not familiar with libreboot so i can't really help you there09:52
DarwinElfall it does is boot GRUB2.  I went to the LibreBoot/CoreBoot channels some years ago and asked how to configure something in the BIOS... they said, there's nothing to configure, unless you get a payload like SeaBIOS instead of GRUB209:53
gnarfacehmmm09:53
gnarfacemabye it is worth looking into so you can make the optical drive first in the boot order again09:53
gnarfaceif you want to09:53
gnarfaceso wait, that means to boot, the libreboot grub2 install needs a cdrom config?09:54
DarwinElfit doesn't even let you do that.  It comes up with a GRUB2 boot menu.  If you're fast enough (this one is set to 2sec) you can choose for it to search the CD/DVD for bootable installer, or press c for a command-line then put commands to boot the CD yourself09:54
gnarfacebrutal09:54
DarwinElfi had someone install LibreBoot for me (it was very complicated hardware teardown) and they set it to 2sec without asking me09:55
DarwinElfi think another GRUB2 option is boot from ISO, but you have to find secondary sites in search engines with articles on that stuff... seems most of the GRUB2 manual is just now unwritten in progress09:56
DarwinElfmaybe it'd work to boot Devuan 2.1 ISO from HDD but I'd suspect just does the same kernel panic09:56
DarwinElfwell, I'll try the Devuan LiveCD instead... maybe starts a different way or has different kernel09:58
DarwinElfBTW, Chrome is not even loading your site anymore because it's not loading non-HTTPS sites anymore apparently.  I hate Chrome but sometimes it's just faster... Firefox did beat it earlier this year but has a lot of new alterations/bugs10:00
DarwinElfit's like, would Google Glass not load stuff in public that might be geared to it unless it's in Pig Latin?  Google is paranoid10:01
DarwinElfi.e., 'Chromium' (I'm not on Windows right now, ever)10:01
DarwinElfmaybe this is where I found the .ISO: http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/ ... the front page somewhere says use deb.devuan.org but I'm not sure if I found it or went to the files.devuan.org link further down10:02
xrogaanany idea how to create a docker container based on devuan?10:05
xrogaanI never did any docker, there is a "FROM" command that is nebulous at best.10:05
xrogaanI need an image I guess, no idea how to build one though.10:10
* xrogaan thinks debootstrap is easier10:10
gnarfaceDarwinElf: first of all, it's not MY site, but https://devuan.org/ seems to come up fine for me...10:11
DarwinElfwhen I said that I'm just talking to the channel ops10:11
gnarfacethere might not be a redirect in place, you may have to actually type https10:12
gnarfaceand not all of the mirrors support it10:12
gnarfaceworse, some of the ones that do, do it wrong10:12
onefanggnarface: I think you are conflating deb.devuan.org (the package mirrors) with devuan.org (the web site).10:20
onefangThe web site isn't mirrored.10:21
gnarfacei was not though10:21
gnarfacealthough i see how that could be mistakenly implied10:21
onefangYou mentioned "https://devuan.org/" then started talking about mirrors not properly supporting HTTPS.10:22
gnarfacei mentioned that because in the context of what DarwinElf was saying, i assumed he would try using https on his sources.list next and then complain about that10:23
onefangThe "Protocols" section of https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html explains about what the package mirrors do and should do.10:24
onefangSo in a nutshell, if you want to use HTTPS for your sources.list, don't use deb.devuan.org, but pick one that passed the Protocol tests on https://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html.10:28
* xrogaan got the docker thing10:36
DarwinElfthe LiveCD booted!  But I don't understand the options :| ... std, access, std-toram, access-toram?10:56
DarwinElfscreens are usually big enough now that could've been explanatory10:57
DarwinElflooking for documentation, hehe... that seems to be something else, so no idea yet which of those options to select11:01
DarwinElfokay, I edited them all to read them but with the background being the same colour choice, can't really read it11:03
gnarfaceDarwinElf: uh... what are you doing now?11:10
DarwinElfreading other things11:12
DarwinElftrying to understand what the LiveCD boot options mean11:14
DarwinElfminimal: std, minimal: access, minimal: std-toram, minimal: access-toram.  It's all jargon apparently undocumented or without a clearly visible link to documentation on the site11:14
gnarfacewait did you get the minimal one?11:15
gnarfacewould have recommended desktop-live11:15
DarwinElfyes11:15
DarwinElfi don't need it11:15
DarwinElfwell the Devuan 2.1 LiveCD booted but every option (minimal ones) are saying they can't find their own kernel... have to try something else then12:17
disrupt_the_flowHey12:31
disrupt_the_flowdev1galaxy doesnt send password emailTried with two different providers12:32
rrqdisrupt_the_flow: parrot.sh doesn't want to play12:49
disrupt_the_flow<rrq "disrupt_the_flow: parrot.sh does"> That's amazing. Why though? You see any weird shit from your side?13:06
disrupt_the_flowBTW i didnt get the password email in protonmail as well.13:06
rrqdev1galaxy still lives in the ipv4 universe13:18
rrqhmmm mail to protonmail.ch go out; whihc protonmail is yours?13:21
gourreplaced slim with lightdm, but now thunar can't automount external  disks...can it be somehow related?13:35
gourthunar reports "Not authorized to perform operation."13:35
gnarfacegour: it is mentioned in the release notes13:39
gnarfaceyou have to switch from consolekit to elogind13:39
gnarfacewhen you switch from slim to lightdm13:39
gnu_srs1gnarface: I'm not sure about that. From what I remember you can run xfce+slim/lightdm with *consolekit* installed.13:43
gnu_srs1maybe that was for ASCII. Are you running Beowulf?13:44
gourno, i'm on ceres13:44
gourhmm, elogind is not installable...13:46
gnarfaceoh ceres, i thought this was ascii anyway13:46
gnarfacethe other thing is you gotta make sure you don't have both of them at once13:46
gourlet me try to fix my issue with slim...13:47
gnarfaceis it a compositor issue?13:47
gourgood. i was able to configure xfce/elogind and keyring does auto-unlock now15:47
xrogaanhuh, so I built a docker image for vscode and the software crashes whenever I try to open a file16:35
MinceRclassic vscode16:44
xrogaanMight be GPU related16:56
xrogaanbecause browser loves gpu now.16:56
xrogaanlast try then I scrap the project16:57
MinceRand of course text editors must be built on top of a browser16:59
XenguyWas there a big update on Ascii recently?18:54
gordonDrogonXenguy, ordinary user here - not sure how 'big' but it brought in a new 4.9 kernel ...18:55
XenguygordonDrogon: Thanks, I can see there is a new kernel initially 'held back', then a bunch of other updates...18:58
XenguyJust thought I'd check before updating all that18:58
gordonDrogonI updated a few days back from my original ASCII install - seems fine to me, but I don't do much special.18:59
XenguyMe too18:59
XenguyI mean no special doings here either18:59
gordonDrogonI'd installed the wrong kernel at initial install time, so had to manually install the kernel, but dist-upgrade went ok.18:59
XenguyGlad to hear it18:59
gordonDrogonI think some stuff might be going fractionally faster, but my hardware is old and I'm doing video editing ...19:00
gordonDrogon(and soft/hardware dev, but that could be done on an old Pentuim...)19:00
XenguyCoincidentally this laptop is a bit old hardware also19:01
Xenguyi3 I think19:01
XenguyIt runs Devuan fine, though sometimes the load (when measured with top) can get higher than what I'm used to seeing19:02
XenguyAnyone else want to weigh in on the Ascii updates I'm seeing?  Should I paste the update output I'm seeing to a pastebin or something?19:06
fsmithredXenguy, I see 53 upgrades in ascii since the last one I did, which was Jan 30.19:25
debdog108 here (mayhap I should do that more often)19:58
fsmithred53 is a lot for one week. When did you do it last?20:03
fsmithredI see mine wants to use an additional 243 MB. That's also odd.20:04
gordonDrogonhm. they've been busy - 48 upgrades here.After this operation, 3,143 kB of additional disk space will be used.20:09
fsmithredkernel alone wants an additional 193MB20:17
fsmithred4.9.0-1220:17
fsmithredthat's why. It's not replacing the existing kernel.20:17
pencilandpaperWhoever suggested snapshot the other day..nice and thank you.20:28
pencilandpaperI caught a perfect moment in the updating cycle..so the snapshot is almost a perfect moment.  Thanks. :)20:29
specinghashtag #btrfsmastterrace20:29
pencilandpaperKruppt: ;)21:09
Kruppto/21:10
pencilandpapero/21:11
aitorhi21:34
Guest25617i've just uploaded the most recent code of simple-netaid21:52
Guest25617https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/simple-netaid/21:52
Guest25617chillfan, are you there?22:28
chillfanyes22:28
Guest25617Time to bed22:28
Guest25617Noooo22:28
Guest25617Recently you asked about the current state of gnuino22:29
Guest25617gnuinos22:29
chillfanWell someone asked me, I said since ascii is stable then "probably" the ascii image is their best bet22:30
Guest25617i need to fix a minor issue related with amprolla22:30
Guest25617maybe my fault in my own config file, i still don't know...22:31
chillfanI see, does it affect both releases?22:31
Guest25617both?22:32
chillfanwell you have ascii images and beowulf images22:32
chillfando you mean the repo isn't working or, it's just a small thing?22:33
Guest25617the Devuan draft image announced in the mailing list uses the repository of devuan22:35
chillfanah, I've been away a while so I wasn't sure the current status22:35
Guest25617my issue is related with the config file for gnuinos22:36
Guest25617amprolla has been working fine for me for a while22:37
Guest25617including the repo of beowulf22:37
Guest25617the issue is related with the missing Release files in the spooldebian-security folder22:40
chillfanah, I hope you can get it fixed22:40
Guest25617tomorrow i'll try again with the stardard config file of amprolla, in order to compare both results22:43
Guest25617chillfan: see you tomorrow22:44
Guest25617devuan is alive :)22:44
chillfanlet me know if you manage it, then I'll let people know it's ok to use gnuinos22:45
Guest25617thanks, and bye22:45

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