| tuxd3v | hello all, | 01:08 |
|---|---|---|
| tuxd3v | is there a way so that we can increase the size of Menu icons in xfce? | 01:09 |
| tuxd3v | since I changed from graphics I barelly see them.. | 01:09 |
| tuxd3v | too small for me..almost blind guy here | 01:09 |
| fsmithred | tuxd3v, Settings, Desktop, Icons, Icon Size | 01:12 |
| fsmithred | oh, that's for desktop icons | 01:13 |
| tuxd3v | fsmithred, yeah it changes the desktop's only :( | 01:13 |
| tuxd3v | thanks anyway | 01:14 |
| tuxd3v | I tried already that, and I can see now desktop ones, but not menu ones.. | 01:14 |
| fsmithred | You can make the menu text bigger | 01:18 |
| fsmithred | or smaller | 01:18 |
| fsmithred | install fontsnaps | 01:18 |
| fsmithred | brb | 01:23 |
| Digit | i'm looking @ https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home:stevenpusser&package=palemoon ( arrived at from http://linux.palemoon.org/ ) getting a little headspin beyond my ken, wondering if this can be implemented in devuan without pain? | 07:12 |
| Digit | or even with pain. XD | 07:12 |
| Digit | palemoon in devuan? yay? nay? | 07:12 |
| gnarface | i think it can technically | 07:13 |
| gnarface | i might be wrong but i thought i remembered the issue being licensing related | 07:13 |
| gnarface | Debian follows a strict list of which open source licenses they'll allow | 07:15 |
| gnarface | maybe now just lacks a maintainer | 07:16 |
| onefang | Using that Palemoon PPA from the opensuse sight works fine for me. | 07:30 |
| xrogaan | tuxd3v: you want the Whiskers menu | 07:31 |
| xrogaan | tuxd3v: you can define the size of the icons with that one. The regular menu is just too simple | 07:31 |
| _abc_ | I am looking for a new laptop. Low end. Should I get Ryzen or not? Most indications are not to, due to battery life impact mostly. This is for multi boot but mainly devuan running as desktop. I do not care about GPU speed etc. | 09:46 |
| Digit | pinebook? | 09:47 |
| gordonDrogon | just set a budget and pick what's best in that range. I have an older (um - 7 years now?) thing that was a "Windows home media" thing - so 720p (ish) display, but anything more modern will have a better display. I just put a new battery in it and I get about 4-5 hours on it depending on use with devuan. | 09:48 |
| gordonDrogon | if not a power user/gamer then you can get a lot for relatively little outlay - it's when you want higher end stuff that prices get silly. | 09:49 |
| gnarface | pinebooks get great battery life but good luck getting your hands on one right now | 09:49 |
| gnarface | certain models of thinkpads are well supported | 09:52 |
| gnarface | i'm skeptical that it's a good idea to put something like a ryzen in a mobile device | 09:52 |
| gnarface | that seems like a hot potato | 09:52 |
| gnarface | if you really care about battery life above all, ARM devices are a better choice | 09:53 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: putting a new battery in: replaceable? Because the ones on all the laptops I am looking at on offer now here are not replaceable. | 09:53 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: I do need some processing power you know, and compatibility. ARM would be nice to try out if they would make some Cavium powered 48 core ones or similar. | 09:53 |
| _abc_ | Those things are used in Juniper routers and other things, they do work. | 09:54 |
| gnarface | pinebooks? eh... it's not glued in like in a mac if that's what you mean. you might need a soldering iron and some training though... | 09:54 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: There are proper teardown videos on youtube for the type I am interested in. | 09:54 |
| _abc_ | Anything bad to say about hp G250 series? | 09:54 |
| gnarface | i can't tell you anything specific about a HP product since the 90's | 09:55 |
| gnarface | sorry | 09:55 |
| gnarface | in general, cheap windows 10 ready stuff does not work | 09:56 |
| gnarface | anything that shipped with windows 10 i'd say will probably not work, anything that shipped with windows 7 though will have a better chance | 09:56 |
| gnarface | but it's largely gonna come down to whether they let you disable secureboot or at least add your own keys/signatures to it | 09:57 |
| gnarface | windows 7 stuff and earlier is less likely to have it, windows 8 and later is more likely | 09:58 |
| gnarface | cheap stuff is more likely to have it locked down so you can't get anything but windows in there, too | 09:58 |
| _abc_ | Is the TPM a problem with all modern laptops? I see the ones on sale here in shops running Endless OS as demo/free OS, which is a Linux version. | 10:03 |
| _abc_ | So they do something special about the certs to get it to run? I think not? | 10:04 |
| gnarface | TPM? | 10:08 |
| _abc_ | Trusted Platform Module | 10:09 |
| gnarface | i don't know | 10:09 |
| _abc_ | It's the secure signature / serial number IC with specific crypto which hw locks the bios / etc | 10:09 |
| _abc_ | When did you last see a laptop which does not permit setting the secure boot / EFI flags to off and allow installing or booting linux "unsecured"? | 10:10 |
| _abc_ | I have to go in 5 minutes, chores | 10:11 |
| gnarface | i've never seen one in person actually. i know they exist though because people have complained about them here | 10:11 |
| gordonDrogon | ditto. | 10:12 |
| gnarface | and i don't expect them to be hard to find, either. i just haven't really bought a laptop in a long time (unless you count the pinebook) | 10:12 |
| _abc_ | You mean laptops shipped with preinstalled W10 which locks the boot system? | 10:12 |
| _abc_ | What is a pinebook? | 10:12 |
| gnarface | is a arm64 laptop with reverse-engineered firmware | 10:13 |
| gnarface | no bios, no efi | 10:13 |
| gnarface | so, no secure boot | 10:13 |
| _abc_ | Oh those guys, now I know what you are on about | 10:13 |
| gnarface | people are getting 12 hour battery life out of them with light usage | 10:14 |
| gnarface | and the standby time is *months* | 10:14 |
| _abc_ | Does this not work? https://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2013/12/16/tech-note-how-to-install-linux-on-a-laptop-with-uefi | 10:14 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: getting 12 hours out of a 40Wh battery with a 3 Watt CPU is not rocket science. | 10:15 |
| _abc_ | What about the display? Reflective? | 10:15 |
| gnarface | mine or both matte but i don't know that they have that much control over the products | 10:15 |
| gnarface | i wouldn't be shocked if a gloss-screen batch got shipped due to availability of parts | 10:16 |
| _abc_ | I mean, the backlight consumes more than the CPU, and contributes more to the battery drain | 10:16 |
| gnarface | yes, you can double the battery life by halving the screen brightness | 10:16 |
| gnarface | but i challenge you to find better | 10:16 |
| _abc_ | Daylight laptop screen is a power hog. Need 500 nits or more to even use in daylight, most screens are 200-250 now | 10:16 |
| _abc_ | So devices made for long duration use daylight chanelled into the display using some light collector and light pipes. | 10:17 |
| gnarface | we should probably take this to #debianfork because this isn't really a devuan support issue per-se | 10:17 |
| _abc_ | Maybe, but I am asking specifically on devuan, anyone got a HP 250 G7 running? Here? It's a popular low end laptop. | 10:18 |
| gnarface | eh, well, hang out. people read their scrollbacks here, so you might get an answer even some hours later | 10:19 |
| _abc_ | Sure. Except I need to move on, will be back to see if there were any answers. | 10:19 |
| Joril | FWIW I have a HP DB1043NL running Beowulf, but I'm using it mostly connected | 10:20 |
| _abc_ | Joril: thanks. That has a different GPU from the i-8250U equipped 250 G7 | 10:22 |
| _abc_ | Also it seems to use a Ryzen | 10:22 |
| _abc_ | Joril: does your laptop have usable SATA slots inside? | 10:23 |
| Joril | Sadly it's pretty much all closed up :/ I think you can change just the battery | 10:34 |
| zatumil | hello do you have a devuan conference in 2020 | 10:37 |
| zatumil | An other question is related to ext2 filesystem. Why supermin command on line 24 creates a appliance.d/root filesystem with illegal characters? Im using this with a custom init script so it might be of interest in this channel. http://paste.debian.net/1130927 | 11:40 |
| djph | zatumil: what characters in the command on ln24 are invalid? | 11:46 |
| zatumil | the generated file contains a ext2 filesystem with illegal characters thats what e2fsck returns | 11:57 |
| zatumil | e2fsck fixes the illegal characters, but I wonder if this is a problem in supermin src/ext2fs-c.c | 12:01 |
| zatumil | Entry '/etc/os-release' in /etc (13) has illegal characters in its name. | 12:08 |
| zatumil | I think the slash is illegal | 12:08 |
| GyrosGeier | another conference would be nice | 12:55 |
| golinux | Good grief . . . what is that hardware question doing on #devuan. Please take it to #debianfork next time. | 17:31 |
| golinux | Y'all should really know better by now . . . | 17:31 |
| * furrywolf drags golinux off to ##furry | 17:36 | |
| GyrosGeier | as a hardware compatibility question, that is certainly valid | 19:39 |
| minnesotags | so what's the word? | 21:44 |
| MinceR | Xenohomonecropedapyrobestiality. | 21:52 |
| minnesotags | I don't think that is a word. | 21:55 |
| MinceR | it sure is | 21:55 |
| MinceR | https://everything2.com/title/Xenohomonecropedapyrobestiality | 21:56 |
| minnesotags | Well I'll be damned. | 21:56 |
| minnesotags | Sam Hartman: "People may or may not take those patches. It's okay even if the reason they don't take those patches is they don't want to support the alternate init system you are working on." I'm not sure how that aligns with "we support exploring alternatives" | 22:01 |
| minnesotags | https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2020/02/msg00186.html | 22:01 |
| yeti | wasnt this to be expected? | 22:01 |
| MinceR | it was | 22:02 |
| minnesotags | Sounds like, "we don't have to support an alternative if supporting it will make it work". | 22:02 |
| minnesotags | It's a blatant lie though. | 22:02 |
| yeti | we support all alternatives as long as they are sysemd | 22:02 |
| MinceR | In the most recent GR, we committed to providing people the tools they | 22:02 |
| MinceR | need to explore and develop alternate init systems. | 22:02 |
| MinceR | i guess they meant "a web browser and dd" | 22:02 |
| fsmithred | more like: We won't prevent anyone from supporting other inits | 22:02 |
| MinceR | (so you can download an image of a distro that supports some init system and write it to a flash storage device) | 22:03 |
| minnesotags | He's specifically saying packages can refuse alternate init system patches simply because they defy the GR outcome of supporting alternatives. | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | yup | 22:06 |
| minnesotags | "and" not "because". | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | not sure why he even went there | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | the question was about debian providing a non-systemd alternative | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | that's miles away from taking patches to allow others to use software with a different init | 22:07 |
| minnesotags | So, how badly was Devuan fucked? | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | when? | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | by the GR? | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | not any more than usual | 22:09 |
| minnesotags | Yes, by the GR. | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | it could have been worse | 22:09 |
| minnesotags | I guess I'm relieved to hear that. | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | I don't think the GR changed anything | 22:10 |
| minnesotags | Ok. That's a relief. | 22:12 |
| fsmithred | better news is that devuan and debian devs collaborated to get elogind working and in repos | 22:17 |
| minnesotags | What is elogind? | 22:19 |
| minnesotags | Shows how much attention I've paid. | 22:19 |
| fsmithred | a replacement for systemd | 22:19 |
| fsmithred | neutered | 22:19 |
| minnesotags | What part of systemd? | 22:19 |
| fsmithred | satisfies deps, takes care of login/sessions | 22:19 |
| fsmithred | works with policykit | 22:19 |
| fsmithred | the details are beyond my knowledge | 22:20 |
| minnesotags | Is that primarily desktop stuff? | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | libelogind0 replaces libsystemd0 | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | in beowulf | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | yeah, mostly desktop stuff | 22:20 |
| fsmithred | reboot/shutdown, mounting external drives | 22:20 |
| minnesotags | Hmm. I don't use any debian desktops, so.... | 22:21 |
| fsmithred | well, even a no-X standard-system-utilities install brings in libsystemd0 and some people were annoyed by that | 22:22 |
| sgage | why does Debian even have GR's? They just do what they want in the end, | 22:47 |
| sgage | and say 'my understanding of the GR is this or that'. And the GR's are | 22:48 |
| sgage | written so as to be as noncommittal and ambiguous as possible. I am so | 22:48 |
| sgage | thoroughly disgusted with the Debian project, after reading the bit from | 22:49 |
| MinceR | maybe it's a relic of a better age that they don't dare officially erase | 22:50 |
| sgage | Sam Hartman. I found his whole demeanor weasel-like. Systemd IS the alternate init system, | 22:50 |
| sgage | for cryin' out loud! | 22:51 |
| MinceR | more like an alternative OS | 22:51 |
| sgage | No kidding MinceR | 22:51 |
| MinceR | in any case, our offtopic channel, #debianfork is a better place to discuss this | 22:53 |
| sgage | I suppose you are right. I was just venting after reading the above-linked | 22:53 |
| sgage | piece from Sam Hartman. But enough for now, here. | 22:54 |
| minnesotags | Oh! Right. Sorry. | 23:05 |
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