freenode/#devuan/ Thursday, 2020-02-20

Terminus6Hello everyone this is my first time here.04:13
furrywolfheyas!04:15
Terminus6I've read the archived messages about chroots. I just need some simple guidance on how to get the debootstrap to generate the filesystem. I followed debians guide for schroot and debootstrap but only problem is when I replaced the url from debian to devuans -> http://deb.devuan.org/merged <- It works but to only a certain extent. debootstrap04:16
cynicfmyo04:16
Terminus6initializes but once its finished it only generates a partial system.04:16
fsmithredTerminus6, did you use debian's debootstrap or devuan's?04:22
Terminus6Devuans, I installed it via aptitude on Devuans repo. I also created /srv/chroot/ascii -> then " sudo debootstrap --arch amd64 ascii /srv/chroot/ascii http://deb.devuan.org/merged "04:26
Terminus6Then after that i get error message " Couldn't download packages: devuan-keyring initscripts libfdisk1 libprocps6 sysvinit-utils "04:29
gnarfaceTerminus6: how many times did you try?  you might have just got a bunk mirror on the first try.04:30
gnarfacethere are only 13 mirrors in the round-robin.  sometimes you get unlucky and catch one updating04:32
Terminus6I only tried twice with that mirror. I'm gonna try a different one real quick.04:32
golinuxAre you using deb.devuan.org in you sources?04:34
golinuxNM.  Sould read more carefully04:35
Terminus6Failure trying to run: chroot /srv/chroots/ascii dpkg-deb -f  VersionW: See /srv/chroots/ascii/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for detailsW: Failure trying to run: chroot /srv/chroots/ascii mount -t proc proc /procW: See /srv/chroots/ascii/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details04:41
Terminus6Wait...04:42
gnarfacethere have been issues in the past with specific packages being somehow allergic to debootstrap.  usually in those cases you can just exclude them with --exclude, then install them into the chroot later04:43
gnarfacetry that if it always fails on the same package04:43
Terminus6Sorry I posted that by mistake. Before that happened I had tried a different mirror and got further. It did generate a complete filesystem hierarchy like expected but why is giving me that message. It makes me think the chroot program tied chrooting right after it finished fetching the files. But okay i guess that makes sense gnarface04:44
gnarfaceTerminus6: the second error i'm not sure about...04:45
gnarfaceyea, it looks weird like another command got ran right afterwards but somehow the parameters of multiple commands got munged into something that wasn't expecting them...04:46
Terminus6Well I thinks I'm good now. Much appreciated for the help (y)  Gracias Amigos04:50
gnarfaceno problem04:52
fsmithredI've had trouble in the past using debootstrap with deb.devuan.org. Try pkgmaster.devuan.org for the debootstrap. Switch to deb.devuan.org afterward.04:58
gnarfacehmmm, perhaps a good idea to try too, Terminus605:02
Terminus6Well right now i'm trying to chroot into the directory but its saying " chroot: failed to run command '/bin/bash': No such file or directory " But I know the ascii directory is there i can obviously see it with ls.05:07
onefangIn all my debootstrap experiments I either use deb.devuan.org, or sledjhamr.org, the later coz the debootstrap is running on the sledjhmar.org mirror, so will be quicker.05:07
Terminus6I'm tring to avoid using schroot because it relies on the pre-made environments found in /etc/schroot/schroot.conf05:08
Terminus6I think chroot is installed. I dont know why its not in the pathname. For gods sake its just a simple chroot!05:13
fsmithredare you running beowulf or buster? There were some changes in su05:16
Terminus6Im running on Devuan ascii.05:17
Terminus6This is what i've been trying " sudo chroot /srv/chroots/asciichroot: failed to run command ‘/bin/bash’: No such file or directory "05:17
fsmithredI've seen that error, but I don't recall what I did about it05:18
Terminus6I know I have chroot installed but its acting like its not installed. Yeah its weird.05:18
fsmithredwell, I just now did a deboostrap of ascii and chrooted into it05:19
Terminus6Maybe its the mirror i used05:20
fsmithredI'm in beowulf. Don't know if that makes a difference.05:20
onefangI've been doing it in ASCII.05:21
Terminus6I must be doing something wrong then.05:21
fsmithrednot necessarily05:22
fsmithredI hesitate to say it, but I might have rebooted to fix that.05:22
onefangdebootstrap --arch ${ARCH} --variant=minbase --include=init,makedev,apt-utils,apt-transport-https,git,etckeeper,rsyslog,swapspace,debconf-utils ascii ${WORK} ${MIRROR}/merged05:22
Terminus6debootstrap worked when i tried a different mirror. Its just my chroot program.05:22
onefang${WORK is the directory to build into.}05:23
fsmithredI need to sleep. Good luck with it.05:23
onefangmount -o bind /sys ${WORK}/sys05:23
Terminus6Okay I'll do that05:23
onefangchroot ${WORK} /bin/bash <<- zzzEOFzzz05:23
onefangThen lots of other stuff.05:23
onefangBut that's for an absolutely bare minimum, where my script does all the rest.05:24
Terminus6Is there suppose to be any spaces on --include=init,makedev,apt-utils etc... because im getting this error message " unrecognized or invalid option --inlcude=init,makedev,apt-utils,apt-transport-https,git,etckeeper,rsyslog,swapspace,debconf-utils" I know theres not supposed to be spaces between the = sign but otherwise.05:35
Terminus6oh i misspelled include.05:35
Terminus6OKAY NOW ITS WORKING05:36
onefangYou can probably leave out etckeeper and git if you don't want to use etckeeper.05:36
Terminus6Just waiting to finish fetching05:36
onefangAnd swapspace if you want to use a swap partition instead.05:37
onefangSwapspace does a swapfile that grows and shrinks depending on demand.  I prefer that over a fixed size swap partition that is largely wasted space most of the time.05:38
Terminus6I know what swap is but I would to research how to actually create/implement it. Its learning and doing is definitely out of the comfort zone.05:43
Terminus6Im not complaining05:44
onefangThe other benefit of the swapspace package is you don't need to do anything other than install it.  B-)05:44
Terminus6Holy crap it worked. I just chrooted into it05:45
Terminus6I'll look into it onefang. Thank you for your help05:46
onefangYou are welcome.05:46
hemimaniacwell I can happily report, installing beowulf from the mini .iso went off with out a hitch other then a tiny problem with sound with Cinnamon. I was suprised because of the mish/mash of components involved05:51
gourmorning09:57
gouri use xfce/lightdm and it gui does not see the env vars which i set in my fish-shell's config file. moreover it looks that lightdm on devuan does not source ~/.xprofile, so wonder what is correct way to make my shell's env vars available to apps started via gui and not from the terminal? should i define them in ~/.xsession or something?10:23
gnarfacetry ~/.config/xfce4/xinitrc10:26
gnarfacethere might be a gui tool for entering them too, i don't know.  i don't use it myself10:26
gourok, will ask in #xfce as well10:28
gnarfaceyou'll have to relog for changes to ~/.config/xfce4/xinitrc to take effect, just fyi10:31
gnarface(maybe even restart lightdm too, not sure)10:31
gouryeah, sure10:32
gourgnarface: i solved it by overriding LC_MESSAGES when using update-locale - now there is no need to define LC_xyz env vars in my shell's config :-)11:07
gnarfacegour: oh, you probably could have fixed that by just installing the locales package.  sorry, i didn't realize that was what you were trying to do.11:11
gourgnarface: i've locales package installed, but "forgot" that I can add desirted change (make exception) by adding LC_MESSAGES to update-locales cmd, since i want hr_HR for everything except LC_MESSAGES which I set to en_GB11:13
gnarfacegour: did you need something that can't be set with "dpkg-reconfigure locales" ?11:16
gourgnarface: yes, specific LC_xyz variable which is exception11:17
gnarfacei see11:18
gouriow. i want hr_HR (native) settings for date/time/money etc. but cannot stand reading LC_MESSAGES in native language since i'm accustomed to English for that11:18
GyrosGeierIIRC the hierarchy is that LC_* overrides LANG, and LC_ALL overrides LC_*11:29
GyrosGeierso that would be LANG=hr_HR LC_MESSAGES=en_US11:29
gourGyrosGeier: correct12:05
moiree!last16:57
* moiree gets http error 403 on deb.debuan.org since three hours16:59
moirees/debuan/devuan/17:00
moireeokay, rr addr is 190.64.49.124, name is r190-64-49-124.su-static.adinet.com.uy.17:05
moireeProblem solved on my site by issuing: iptables -I OUTPUT -d 190.64.49.124 -j REJECT17:17
fsmithredmoiree, is you want to use https, just use a single mirror that supports it.17:47
onefangThat mirror is having issues though.17:48
onefanghttps://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/LOG_deb.devuan.org_190.64.49.124.html17:48
onefangI've notified the man with the DNS-RR keys.17:52
moireefsmithred: Thanks, but the protocol was not the problem. :)17:55
moireeonefang: Excellent! Thank you.17:56
onefanghttps://borta.devuan.dev/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html (updated hourly) or https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html (updated every ten minutes) keeps track of the mirrors.  Though they don't alert anyone yet, I haven't written that bit yet.  Thanks for letting us know moiree.17:58
jkisteri have a binary that wants cxxabi 1.3.11 but my updated devuan seems to only provide 1.3 through 1.3.10.  is there some apt repo or dpkg that i can install to handle that ?18:21
_abc_Sounds like Mozilla is going to throw in the gauntlet. Sooner, later, who knows. Does the devuan project have any alternate in view? Alternate browser which could possibly in the future take the place of firefox or coexist with it? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/20/mozilla_eu_internet_regulation/20:42
_abc_Of course MacDonald cries crocodile tears but Mozilla IS the smallest of the companies discussed.20:43
MinceRi'm hoping the "modern" web collapses and is replaced by something sane20:47
gourMinceR: +120:55
_abc_There are problems with that approach. Like, relying on the coronavirus for that. Because without that it's not going to happen20:58
_abc_The Androlemmings on the street are helpless without fb twatter and web 3.0 generated data bubble. They'd turn panicked emo in 60 minutes of deprivation.20:59
_abc_Back to devuan, is the project at least loosely following one of the open source hopeful browsers?20:59
_abc_dillo I always install but it is a toy unable to follow js etc.20:59
fsmithred_abc_, links2 gets my vote21:01
_abc_text mode?21:01
fsmithredit will do that if you want21:01
fsmithredgraphical mode21:01
fsmithredmake the web look like 1995 again!21:02
_abc_dillo does that already.21:02
fsmithredI haven't tried that one lately21:02
fsmithredbrb21:02
_abc_it's in debian so just install it. Talk about 1995 + Motif!21:02
MinceRthat's fltk, not motif21:03
_abc_https://ibb.co/KhR7p7521:05
_abc_Yes correct fltk.21:06
_abc_At least dillo does some CSS21:08
MinceRis that desirable?21:09
_abc_Wait, what? links did js but not anymore? ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(web_browser)21:11
_abc_MinceR: CSS does remove some of the uglyness baked into plain html, to be honest.21:11
_abc_Also makes things usable. Like forcing scrollbars on a large table constrained in a div on a relatively small screen21:12
MinceRshouldn't the browser figure that case out?21:12
_abc_It should but it does not. That is a separate chapter, I think.21:14
_abc_<off topic>oooh BeOS lives on as Haiku! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)21:16
yetiyipyip...21:17
_abc_?21:17
yeti32bit haikus still is kind of beoscompaible, the 64bit variant is not21:18
_abc_yeti: does it run nicely in a qemu or vbox vm?21:18
yetiI had it in qemu until I got a cleanup attack...21:19
yetiI'll installit again.21:19
_abc_There's also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaMonkey21:19
yetiemacs needs a (better) browser21:22
_abc_not in debian21:22
_abc_Strange since SeaMonkey license is MPL/GPL/LGPL21:24
_abc_Not compatible with Debian?21:24
debdogprolly just no one packed it. but you can get a binary on their site which runs on devuan. still a mozilla backend, though21:25
_abc_As long as there is promise of open source it's acceptable. FF 52 was ancient I ran the ESR version of it for years.21:26
_abc_That's what the non beta SeaMonkey is aligned with21:26
_abc_Ancient FF version means problems with websites.21:27
yetiwas it "iceape"21:28
yetiit was in debian... with a different name21:28
yetiso it was compatible... licensewise21:28
_abc_Some fork of mozilla I forget, it was phased out because something political changed21:28
_abc_Don't remember the details.21:28
_abc_iceweasel too21:28
MinceRfailfox was rebranded to iceweasel in debian21:28
yetihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_software_rebranded_by_Debian#Iceape21:29
_abc_At some point there was an announcement and the next isceweasel update loaded firefox instead21:29
_abc_and broke some things for me21:29
_abc_I had to backpedal a bit and restore from backups because the monkeys online made the iceweasel old release unavailable for some reason21:29
_abc_seamonkey is a 53MB d/l as binary for my system.21:30
_abc_Nice to know it exists. But as the article said, in thereg, it's getting hard to keep up with the "chrome" optimized net.21:31
_abc_https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Timeline_of_web_browsers.svg maybe there's something else in here we can try21:31
_abc_What is Sleipnir ?21:32
_abc_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir_(web_browser) no linux support21:33
_abc_Japanese. Cute.21:34
* _abc_ no kanji21:35
debdogwhat about konqueror or basilisk?21:38
debdogjust to throw some names into the ring21:38
_abc_Just found Basilisk. I am walking the right edge of the svg graph I linked above21:38
_abc_top down21:38
_abc_Basilisk is also mozilla rooted, no? Goanna engine?21:41
_abc_Pale Moon, also ff offspring21:42
_abc_Wow Epiphany lives on.21:42
MinceRapparently konqueror still exists21:45
_abc_sure. Just sucks.21:45
_abc_epiphany is in the devuan debian channel21:45
MinceRdidn't say it didn't :>21:45
_abc_I ran KDE3 desktop for 10 years because 4 is still not quite usable to this say.21:45
MinceRit couldn't even save an image it was displaying without downloading it again21:45
MinceRindeed21:45
MinceRthere's a KDE3 fork called Trinity DE, but i don't know if it's still maintained21:46
_abc_I heard about it. Xfce is my thing now. Worky.21:46
_abc_Also lightspeed on modern cpu's. This one is 12 years old and still very snappy.21:46
_abc_falkon seem to be in kde but not in devuan21:49
_abc_The SVG claims konqueror died but lives on as Safari. Grr.21:51
debdoghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otter_Browser haha, yah, feels like being in the zoo or on a safari21:52
_abc_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutebrowser this is interesting in some ways.21:52
MinceRlol @ safari21:52
MinceRtoo bad qutebrowser uses qt5 and even qt quick21:52
MinceRso not only is its framework a total pain to build, but it also won't render reliably21:53
_abc_Hmm Dooble is also Qt based21:57
_abc_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eww_(web_browser) someone was asking for a decent web browser for emacs?22:00
_abc_netsurf looks okay? Also IS in devuan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetSurf22:01
* _abc_ installs it22:01
_abc_netsurf seems to be tolerable for now. Minimal CSS support but works on wikipedia, google, etc22:03
_abc_netsurf feels a lot like konqueror due to gtk engine22:04
debdognetsurf not acceptable here. first shop I've tried fails https://www.voelkner.de/22:07
debdogsecond shop, too https://www.conrad.de/22:08
_abc_huh?22:10
_abc_Is that a joke?22:10
debdoghmm, no. it works for you?22:10
_abc_apt-get install netsurf22:10
debdogoh, still on ASCII here. mayhap that's the problem22:10
_abc_note: NO javascript that I can see22:10
debdogoutdated netsurf22:11
_abc_debdog: I'm on ascii too22:11
debdog*scratches head*22:11
_abc_3.6 from 2016 is what I got22:11
_abc_https://www.netsurf-browser.org/22:11
_abc_current is 3.922:11
debdogyah, same here22:12
debdogodd22:12
_abc_Why odd? Debianists live in the past.22:13
_abc_Hey we're not arch...22:13
debdogyah, but why do shops work for you but no me with the same browser?22:14
debdogand on the same OS22:14
_abc_Because when I say work I mean it loads, not that I can see all of it, since it's mostly js rendered.22:14
_abc_So I see just a plain HTML skeleton22:15
_abc_SeaMonkey should load the js, install that if you want it.22:15
debdogahh, sorry, did get that wrong then22:15
debdogyes, Seamonkey is my default browser22:16
_abc_Apparently netsurf 3.9 has CSS and improved JS22:17

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