libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-02-26

djphmason: or both00:04
masondjph: That too.00:04
agrisDoes Devuan ASCII support 802.11w management frame protection?04:11
xrogaandoes debian supports it?04:12
xrogaanIf so, devuan does.04:12
xrogaanDevuan is simply debian without systemd04:12
agrisI have no diea04:15
gnarfacefor x86 and amd64 the kernels are the same, agris04:16
agriswhat about the kkkkkkkkernels?04:16
gnarfaceif you can find out what build option enables that, you just need to get your hands on the kernel config shipped with the debian package for it04:16
gnarfacethen you can search that file04:17
gnarfaceall the arm images' kernels are custom built by volunteers, so all bets are off there04:17
agrisoh04:22
agrisgnarface, where did kernels come up?04:23
gnarfaceagris: i'm assuming 802.11w support is in the kernel04:37
gnarface(if it is anywhere)04:37
tuxd3vagris for MPF your AP needs to also support it05:36
tuxd3vits not only your computer driver, that nees to support 80211w05:37
tuxd3vyou can check that with05:37
tuxd3v'iw dev wlan0 station dump'05:37
tuxd3vMPF: {yes|no}05:38
tuxd3vif MPF is yes its mandatory by the AP05:38
tuxd3vif its no, I don't know if there are any form of know for sure if its not Mandatory or if its not supported..05:39
agristuxd3v, my AP supports it, but when i try to connect my devuan machine it says bad password05:39
agriswhen MPF is set to required05:40
tuxd3vit could be disabled05:41
tuxd3vit makes part of 80211mac driver, since 2009 I believe05:41
agrisin Devuan?05:41
tuxd3vbut then each card has its own driver on top of that..05:41
agrisatheros05:41
tuxd3vthere are hardware that doesn not support it..05:42
tuxd3vath9k should support it..05:46
tuxd3vbut I already experienced several problems with this functionality05:47
tuxd3vlike severe loss of signal that forced me to disable it05:47
tuxd3vbut that goes to some 6-8 years or so..05:47
tuxd3vI believe what you are talking about is encryption of Managment frames05:48
agrisgnarface, you were right about the arm stuff05:52
tuxd3vI don't really know, how to enable it, I believe that you need to specify that in the config file..05:52
agrisI've recently switched my arm server to NetBSD from Devuan05:52
agrisworks a LOT better05:52
agrisnot constant blaring warnings on vtty from openRC and scary messages in dmesg05:52
tuxd3vemail 'linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org', and ask how to activate the feature05:52
tuxd3vits what comes now to my mind..05:53
agristuxd3v, well it could be it's an older atheros card05:53
agrisit's 2.4Ghz only to give you an idea of the age05:53
agrisbut it works without blobs and is 'fast enough' and pretty stable even in non-common operation modes like 802.11s so i've kept it05:54
agrisis there a way to check if it's activated or not first before I mail the list?05:54
fsmithredlspci05:55
fsmithredip a05:55
fsmithrediwconfig05:55
fsmithredifconfig05:55
zatumilwmii window manager uses 9p filesystem for inter-process communication, do you think it should be used in contrast to dbus? see also https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/12/msg00336.html13:04
MinceRinteresting13:07
masonzatumil: Anything can be used instead of dbus. IPC is old. dbus is recent.15:01
masonI'm told the systemd developers are moving towards https://github.com/varlink15:02
zatumilvarlinks combines service metadata. I would like to avoid any metadata. A virtual filesystems seems to be a suitable interface. What do you mean IPC is old?15:15
masonzatumil: IPC has been around for ages and still works15:15
masonzatumil: These new things are convoluted and unnecessary.15:15
zatumilthere is a difference in communication done by kernel developers or some third party devs15:35
GyrosGeierthe whole thing is a reimplementation of COM16:05
GyrosGeierwhich is not a bad idea in itself, you can do awesome things on the Desktop with COM16:05
l53vrI can't figure out how to install evolution-ews from beowulf-backports. It seems like installing it is mutually exclusive from all the evolution packages it's intended for which makes no sense. My system is using everything from beowulf.16:14
buZzhmm not sure, but some recent update on beowulf seems to have broken my Fn+backlight intensity buttons on thinkpad x230 :D18:02
masonbuZz: Not that this helps, but this morning's install on my T420, it still works.18:05
masonbuZz: FWIW, I still need to manually specify the backlight device for X, popping this into xorg.conf: https://bpaste.net/JJWQ18:06
buZzk18:08
buZzi'll just dig around18:08
buZzdidnt need to add it to xorg before18:08
buZzand worked without any config in fluxbox on both ascii and beowulf18:08
buZzjust recently it broke18:08
masonbuZz: Let me clarify, sorry - function keys Just Work, but I need that in xorg.conf for xbacklight to work.18:09
masonFWIW, with OpenBox here because I haven't had a chance to migrate to fluxbox yet.18:09
debdogbuZz: what if you hold the keys for ten seconds or more?18:09
buZzlets see18:10
buZzdebdog: nothing happens18:10
debdogok18:10
masonbuZz: I'd be interested in knowing if xbacklight works out of the box for you.18:10
buZzah18:10
buZzbuzz@bz-x230:~$ xbacklight18:10
buZzNo outputs have backlight property18:10
buZznice18:10
masonbuZz: Or after adding that xorg.conf bit18:10
buZzthats probably related :D18:10
masonbuZz: That's what I get without the snippet.18:10
buZzweird that it worked without config prior then18:10
_abc_Hi. Is Manjaro / Arch not systemd free? I think it is not? Also, there is no cross-way to add packages from another distribution to the package pool used by devuan, right? Arch uses pacman, with tar.gz/bz2 files.18:58
_abc_I mean tar.xz19:00
debdogthere's package alien available for this. dunno whetther it works for arch, though, or even in general19:01
_abc_It appears Arch->Manjaro had a splinter called Artix which was systemd less. In 2018. ref: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-version-without-systemd/5169019:02
_abc_If I'd try to pull alien packages, I'd try to pull them from something also systemd-less, just in case the virus is active in the package.19:02
_abc_Devuan and others are mentioned in that thread19:03
_abc_ Is LXQt an option on devuan at all?19:05
debdogyes19:06
debdogat least on Beowulf. IIRC there were issues on ASCII19:07
fsmithredlxqt installs just fine in beowulf. There were issues with lxde in ascii, and it looks like in beowulf, too.19:27
onefangWhat issues?  I've been using lxde fine on ASCII.19:33
fsmithredwell, I'm trying to install on a beowulf with standard system utils only19:37
fsmithredapt install lxde fails because lxde-core is required and not going to be installed19:37
fsmithredand lxpolkit19:38
debdogIIRC one was that the dialogue to change background was not working properly19:38
fsmithredwhen I add those to the command, it tells me it needs libpolkit-backened-1-019:38
fsmithredwhen I add that, it needs policykit-1 and synaptic19:38
fsmithredwhen I add those it wants lxde-session or some other shit.19:38
onefangI use a fixed black background, so that isn't a problem for me.19:38
fsmithredif I install consolekit first and then try lxde it fails19:39
fsmithredtask-lxde-desktop fails for the same reasons19:39
onefanglxde-session I do use.19:39
fsmithredif I install elogind first, then it looks like it will install the whole system, which includes replacing elogind with consolekit19:39
fsmithredthat's the screen I'm looking at now.19:39
onefanglxde-session is useful for me, it starts all my other apps, including the one that installs the black background.19:41
fsmithredonefang, does everything work? (desktop reboot/shutdown, mounting external media as user, synatpic or gparted)19:41
onefangSynaptic does (I use it all the time), gparted does (just tried it now).  I'm too used to using the shutdown command on all the servers I have looked after to bother with GUI tools for that, and I rarely shutdown / reboot most things anyway.19:45
devaA few years ago I tried installing devuan on a Ryzen 1800 system but was forced to use the debian unstable kernel in order to get it to use the threads. Does anybody know if this line of CPUs are directly supported by devuan sources nowaways?19:46
devaIt appears to be added to the 4.10 kernel, but I'm not sure if it has been backported to 4.9 which (IIRC) is the one shipping with devuan?19:47
fsmithreddeva, you can get 4.19 from ascii-backports19:47
onefangRemoveable media just worked fine to.19:47
fsmithredor you can upgrade to beowulf and get 4.1919:47
fsmithredif you want to try a live-iso that has ascii-bacports kernel, I've got one19:48
onefangI'm not about to test shutting down right now.  lol19:48
devafsmithred, I would love to try the ascii-backports solution19:48
fsmithredhttps://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/unofficial_devuan_ascii_2.1_bpo_amd64-20191105_1512.iso19:48
devaMy primary goal is to have it "pure" devuan if possible19:49
devafsmithred, Aweseom - thanks :-)19:49
fsmithredthat iso is pure devuan - it's the desktop-live with bpo kernel19:49
fsmithredmade by the same person who makes the official devuan desktop-live isos19:49
fsmithredme19:49
deva:-)19:50
fsmithredit does not have the debian-installer, but it does have refractainstaller19:50
fsmithredif you want raid or lvm, you have to do some stuff manually19:50
devaDoes it allow to install a minimalistic server, without X etc... ?19:51
fsmithredno19:51
fsmithredyou get what's in the live session19:51
fsmithredI do have no-X beowulf isos19:51
devaoh, ok19:51
fsmithredwhich are devuan with standard system utils plus extra command-line utils19:52
fsmithredrefracta in name but only devuan in sources.list19:52
devaI'm confused. Isn't beowolf the debian distro?19:52
fsmithredno19:52
fsmithredbuster is debian, beowulf is devuan19:52
fsmithredascii=stretch19:53
devano wonder I'm confused :p19:53
fsmithredcome around more often19:53
* deva look back at the happy days where things had version numbers19:53
fsmithred319:53
devaok, so beowulf might be the right choice for me then19:53
fsmithredyou can try the desktop-live I posted to test it - it does include wireless firmware19:55
fsmithredactually, you could test with the beowulf isos - you just need to make sure the kernel works19:55
fsmithredand I'm pretty sure it will19:55
devaI am running the system on 4.14 today I think, so 4.19 shoudl work fine as well19:56
fsmithredpeople with ryzens that have higher numbers than yours are using devuan19:56
deva... but not devuan stable I guess?19:56
fsmithredprobably not19:56
devafsmithred, I think I have a clear path now. Thank you very much for your answers :-)19:57
fsmithredyw19:57
AntoFoxo/22:16
AntoFoxcan you give me feedback on how my latest version of MATE runs?22:16
AntoFoxalso cinnamon22:17
buZzAntoFox: what?22:22
buZzis MATE a window manager?22:22
AntoFoxhttp://hezeh.org/mate-desktop-1.2222:22
AntoFoxthis22:22
buZzaha22:24
buZzi dont really want to install anything from random repos :P22:24
buZzlast time i tried cinnamon it still required gpu acceleration, not something i want in a WM :P22:25
golinuxbuZz: AntoFox provides Cinnamon for Devuan22:55
golinuxHis repo is OK22:55
buZzhehe alright23:05

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