freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-03-10

JorilTesting Beowulf mini.iso on a brand new Dell XPS 7390...13:53
dragasthello, is there a devuan security mail list I can join?17:31
golinuxdragast: No17:43
dragasterm, okay, so then Devuan uses the Debian Security tracker?17:43
golinuxYes, we get Debian security updates17:44
TurBo_biThi guys!18:28
TurBo_biTI was talking with a friend and told me that as I know, Devuan don't use systemd init, but after that told me that it has dependences from systemd even if don't use systemd init18:29
TurBo_biTis this true?18:30
debdogdevuan itself does not depend on systemd. however, some packages still require libsystemd0 to be installed18:33
xrogaanwhich is quite harmless.18:34
TurBo_biTdebdog, this packages comes with devuan distribution?, or need when install programs?18:34
TurBo_biTthere's no substitute for that?18:36
xrogaanlibelogind0 replace libsystemd018:36
xrogaanso you can install libelogind0 instead18:36
TurBo_biTxrogaan, so, it comes with libsystemd0 or libelogind018:36
MinceRwhich apparently has a less hostile upstream18:36
debdogxrogaan: on ASCII and Beowulf?18:37
debdogor Beowulf only18:37
debdogok, good to know!18:37
xrogaanIDK about ascii18:37
xrogaanA lot of stuff needs elogind in order to function/18:38
MinceRa lot of stuff is broken :>18:40
fsmithredascii has libelogind0 but it can't replace libsystemd0. In beowulf it can.18:40
TurBo_biTfsmithred, so, this is a step back no?18:41
debdoghehe, that probably depends on point of view18:42
TurBo_biTfsmithred, oh, sorry, beowulf, :P18:42
fsmithredwe try not to move back whenever possible18:43
TurBo_biTfsmithred, nice!18:47
TurBo_biTthx a lot to everyone for the information18:48
fsmithredif you're a long-time debian user, using devuan will feel like coming home.18:49
TurBo_biTfsmithred, :)))))19:05
BlackMughello there19:18
BlackMuganybody downloaded/tested devuan 3.0 beowulf desktop iso amd64 ?19:20
fsmithredBlackMug, yes I did. Install was fine and I could install apt-transport-tor in the new system without issues.19:23
fsmithredI did have to comment out the cdrom line19:24
BlackMugi will brb after 30 minute to debug why we have different outputs19:24
BlackMugin the installation steps did you choose mirrors ?19:49
fsmithredyes, deb.devuan.org19:49
BlackMugi didnt choose any , i uncomment the repos after installation19:50
fsmithredso you installed from the media without network?19:50
fsmithredwish I'd known that yesterday19:51
fsmithredstill should work if you uncommented and updated19:52
BlackMugbut does it matter?19:52
fsmithredwhat did you uncomment?19:52
fsmithredthere should only be cdrom line if you don't choose a mirror19:52
BlackMugbut i comment cd rom19:54
BlackMugand enabled the commented mirrors19:54 beowulf-security main19:55
BlackMugok i think i know my mistake19:55
BlackMugone sec19:55
fsmithredshould be three deb lines19:55
fsmithredbeowulf, beowulf-security and beowulf-updates19:56
BlackMugor no i thought i discovered my mistake by adding contrib and non-free but didnt work either19:57
fsmithredwhat is happening?19:57
BlackMugah three lines ?19:57
fsmithredusually three19:57
fsmithredminimum one (beowulf)19:57
BlackMugwhy beowulf alone not there? only have beowulf-security and beowulf-updates19:58
BlackMuglet me add the third one and check19:58
fsmithredI think that's because you did offline install19:58
cosurgifriend of mine was printing a .pdf document that he has written in .tex in emacs, but on apple mac OSX, not linux. And the printing was interruped with an error messaage printed on the paper: "offending command: systemd"19:58
cosurgithen he suddenly understood why I use devuan everywhere.19:59
fsmithredand the presumption is that you might at some time want to connect and get security fixes19:59
cosurgibut I have no idea how systemd got into his cups on OSX.19:59
fsmithredcosurgi, have you ever seen grass grow up through concrete?20:00
BlackMugok now we discovered the error20:00
cosurgifsmithred: yeah, I did ;)20:00
BlackMugfsmithred beowulf only repo is not there20:00
fsmithredthat's where most of the packages are20:00
BlackMugadded beowulf manually and now it worked20:00
BlackMugok devuan should fix this by either removing beowulf-updates and replace it with beowulf only20:01
BlackMugor add it so we have 3 repos20:01
fsmithredI don't know how much is involved in doing that20:02
BlackMuggood now we know where is the issue of and how it should be fixed for missing packages20:03
BlackMugnvidia , unconfigured wicd20:04
BlackMugany idea on them?20:04
cosurgifsmithred: apparently the apple's concrete walled garden has more cracks in it than anyone wants to admit20:04
fsmithredwhat about nvidia? That something that people add after the initial install.20:05
fsmithredwicd will be configured in the installed system if you use the desktop-live isos20:05
fsmithredbut it's not in debian-installer (the installer isos)20:05
BlackMugfsmithred what do you mean ppl add after initial install ? its installed by default in devuan not manually20:06
fsmithredwhat nvidia packages got installed?20:07
fsmithreddpkg -l |grep nvidia20:07
fsmithreddon't paste them here!20:07
fsmithredor put them on one line20:07
BlackMugnot showing in your installed version?20:08
fsmithredI wouldn't expect it to be installed on intel hardware20:09
fsmithredI've never heard of it being installed automatically20:09
BlackMugi wouldnt expect to installed at all because its proprietary20:09
fsmithredwe allow the installer to add non-free and contrib packages if your hardware can use it.20:10
fsmithredIf you want to exclude that, select Expert install20:10
plasma41fsmithred: Was that not just for wifi firmware?20:10
fsmithrednot sure. I think maybe firmware-amd-graphics gets added.20:11
BlackMugdamn thats horrible to have non-free/contrib downloading themselves while installing the distro (even offline)20:11
fsmithredwell, some people think it's horrible that they can't use their wireless connection.20:11
fsmithredespecially those who have hardware that doesn't have an ethernet port.20:12
BlackMugyes they should knock knock on the wifi manufacture because of their proprietary shit20:12
plasma41I have previously voiced the opinion that non-free firmware, if it is included at all, should be opt-in rather than opt-out.20:13
BlackMugnot adding proprietary binaries by default to the users. convenient VS freedom20:13
fsmithredyeah, the installer would need major changes to do that20:14
BlackMugnever known this, but this is bad idea hope it wont be the same for the coming releases20:14
BlackMugby now Debian has more freedom respect to their users than devuan20:15
BlackMugso now the three 3 problems identified20:16
BlackMugi think my tests done , thanks again for the support and good discussion20:17
fsmithredthanks for testing and reporting20:18
BlackMugif you want me to test new releases or so im at #whonix on OFTC almost 24/720:18
fsmithredcool, thanks20:18
BlackMughave a good day , bye :)20:19
fsmithredhow can I unmount an iso that I already unmounted. I want to mount it again so I can look at the contents.  "/dev/loop1 already mounted or mount point busy."20:24
fsmithred'mount' does not agree with that message20:24
fsmithredneither do I20:24
furrywolfyou shouldn't need to unmount something that's already unmounted...   what does "mount" show?20:24
fsmithrednot any loop or iso20:24
fsmithredor mnt (my mountpoint)20:25
fsmithredI tried 'losetup -d /dev/loop1' and got no error, but it didn't fix it.20:25
fsmithredalso tried a different mountpoint and got same error20:25
furrywolfdoes something still have a valid file handle or such?  it shouldn't if umount completed, but lsof might be worth a try...20:27
fsmithredoh yeah, lsof20:28
furrywolfwhat command are you using to mount it?20:28
fsmithredmount devuan-blah.iso mnt20:28
fsmithredsame as I've been doing since wheezy, I think20:29
fsmithredmaybe jessie20:29
furrywolfdo you already have several other things loop mounted?  are you inside a nested mount or something silly?20:29
furrywolfreboot?  :)20:29
fsmithredsitting here at the desk operating pure hardware20:30
fsmithredyeah, I didn't want to say that first20:30
fsmithredit's been a couple week. Probably time to blow out some dust.20:30
furrywolfyou're in the right directory to specify "mnt" without a full path?20:30
fsmithredyeah, it's in my home20:31
fsmithredI got the pid of loop1. Can I kill it?20:31
furrywolfpid of loop1?  devices have pids now?20:31
fsmithredloop1     10008                        root  txt   unknown                                         /proc/10008/exe20:31
furrywolfheh, that's new, or I never noticed that.  lol20:32
fsmithredthere are two other lines, instead of txt, they are cwd and rtd20:32
onefangKill the loop, kill the loop, kill the loop...  Oops, recursive kill detected, LOOP GENOCIDE!20:33
fsmithredit's immortal20:33
fsmithredok, brb20:33
fsmithredunless you have another idea20:34
fsmithredI could try init 1 first20:34
furrywolfif it's in an unkillable state, you might want to make sure you don't have drive errors or such.20:34
fsmithredpassed and no reallocated sectors20:35
onefangThat sounds like a reboot and blow the dust off the drive.  Just don't remove the rust, it's the only thing holding your data together.20:35
furrywolfcould be something glitched and/or you found a bug...20:35
fsmithred"found" is a little optimistic. "encountered" is closer.20:36
fsmithredok back in a few minutes20:37
fsmithredplasma41, I don't see firmware-amd64-graphics in the firmware dir on the iso, so I guess it does not get added by default. I did add it in the desktop-live isos.20:45
fsmithredand I do see amd and intel microcode packages in the firmware dir, but I'm not sure if those get installed automatically. I never thought to check.20:46
fsmithrednope. It didn't get installed in yesterday's test.20:47
* fsmithred wonders what loop0 was doing before the reboot. 20:58

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