syco- | hi | 11:04 |
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Joril | Testing Beowulf mini.iso on a brand new Dell XPS 7390... | 13:53 |
dragast | hello, is there a devuan security mail list I can join? | 17:31 |
golinux | dragast: No | 17:43 |
dragast | erm, okay, so then Devuan uses the Debian Security tracker? | 17:43 |
golinux | Yes, we get Debian security updates | 17:44 |
TurBo_biT | hi guys! | 18:28 |
TurBo_biT | I was talking with a friend and told me that as I know, Devuan don't use systemd init, but after that told me that it has dependences from systemd even if don't use systemd init | 18:29 |
TurBo_biT | is this true? | 18:30 |
debdog | devuan itself does not depend on systemd. however, some packages still require libsystemd0 to be installed | 18:33 |
xrogaan | which is quite harmless. | 18:34 |
MinceR | allegedly. | 18:34 |
TurBo_biT | debdog, this packages comes with devuan distribution?, or need when install programs? | 18:34 |
TurBo_biT | there's no substitute for that? | 18:36 |
xrogaan | libelogind0 replace libsystemd0 | 18:36 |
xrogaan | so you can install libelogind0 instead | 18:36 |
TurBo_biT | xrogaan, so, it comes with libsystemd0 or libelogind0 | 18:36 |
MinceR | which apparently has a less hostile upstream | 18:36 |
debdog | xrogaan: on ASCII and Beowulf? | 18:37 |
debdog | or Beowulf only | 18:37 |
xrogaan | beowulf | 18:37 |
debdog | ok, good to know! | 18:37 |
xrogaan | IDK about ascii | 18:37 |
xrogaan | A lot of stuff needs elogind in order to function/ | 18:38 |
MinceR | a lot of stuff is broken :> | 18:40 |
fsmithred | ascii has libelogind0 but it can't replace libsystemd0. In beowulf it can. | 18:40 |
TurBo_biT | fsmithred, so, this is a step back no? | 18:41 |
debdog | hehe, that probably depends on point of view | 18:42 |
TurBo_biT | fsmithred, oh, sorry, beowulf, :P | 18:42 |
fsmithred | we try not to move back whenever possible | 18:43 |
TurBo_biT | fsmithred, nice! | 18:47 |
TurBo_biT | thx a lot to everyone for the information | 18:48 |
fsmithred | if you're a long-time debian user, using devuan will feel like coming home. | 18:49 |
TurBo_biT | fsmithred, :))))) | 19:05 |
yeti | yip... | 19:12 |
BlackMug | hello there | 19:18 |
BlackMug | anybody downloaded/tested devuan 3.0 beowulf desktop iso amd64 ? | 19:20 |
fsmithred | BlackMug, yes I did. Install was fine and I could install apt-transport-tor in the new system without issues. | 19:23 |
fsmithred | I did have to comment out the cdrom line | 19:24 |
BlackMug | i will brb after 30 minute to debug why we have different outputs | 19:24 |
BlackMug | back | 19:48 |
BlackMug | in the installation steps did you choose mirrors ? | 19:49 |
fsmithred | yes, deb.devuan.org | 19:49 |
BlackMug | i didnt choose any , i uncomment the repos after installation | 19:50 |
fsmithred | so you installed from the media without network? | 19:50 |
BlackMug | yes | 19:51 |
fsmithred | wish I'd known that yesterday | 19:51 |
BlackMug | sorry | 19:52 |
fsmithred | still should work if you uncommented and updated | 19:52 |
BlackMug | but does it matter? | 19:52 |
fsmithred | um | 19:52 |
fsmithred | what did you uncomment? | 19:52 |
fsmithred | there should only be cdrom line if you don't choose a mirror | 19:52 |
BlackMug | true | 19:54 |
BlackMug | but i comment cd rom | 19:54 |
BlackMug | and enabled the commented mirrors | 19:54 |
BlackMug | deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main | 19:55 |
BlackMug | ok i think i know my mistake | 19:55 |
BlackMug | one sec | 19:55 |
fsmithred | should be three deb lines | 19:55 |
fsmithred | beowulf, beowulf-security and beowulf-updates | 19:56 |
BlackMug | or no i thought i discovered my mistake by adding contrib and non-free but didnt work either | 19:57 |
fsmithred | what is happening? | 19:57 |
BlackMug | ah three lines ? | 19:57 |
fsmithred | usually three | 19:57 |
fsmithred | minimum one (beowulf) | 19:57 |
BlackMug | why beowulf alone not there? only have beowulf-security and beowulf-updates | 19:58 |
BlackMug | let me add the third one and check | 19:58 |
fsmithred | I think that's because you did offline install | 19:58 |
cosurgi | friend of mine was printing a .pdf document that he has written in .tex in emacs, but on apple mac OSX, not linux. And the printing was interruped with an error messaage printed on the paper: "offending command: systemd" | 19:58 |
cosurgi | then he suddenly understood why I use devuan everywhere. | 19:59 |
fsmithred | and the presumption is that you might at some time want to connect and get security fixes | 19:59 |
cosurgi | but I have no idea how systemd got into his cups on OSX. | 19:59 |
fsmithred | lol | 19:59 |
fsmithred | cosurgi, have you ever seen grass grow up through concrete? | 20:00 |
BlackMug | ok now we discovered the error | 20:00 |
cosurgi | fsmithred: yeah, I did ;) | 20:00 |
BlackMug | fsmithred beowulf only repo is not there | 20:00 |
fsmithred | that's where most of the packages are | 20:00 |
BlackMug | added beowulf manually and now it worked | 20:00 |
BlackMug | ok devuan should fix this by either removing beowulf-updates and replace it with beowulf only | 20:01 |
BlackMug | or add it so we have 3 repos | 20:01 |
fsmithred | I don't know how much is involved in doing that | 20:02 |
BlackMug | good now we know where is the issue of and how it should be fixed for missing packages | 20:03 |
BlackMug | nvidia , unconfigured wicd | 20:04 |
BlackMug | any idea on them? | 20:04 |
cosurgi | fsmithred: apparently the apple's concrete walled garden has more cracks in it than anyone wants to admit | 20:04 |
fsmithred | what about nvidia? That something that people add after the initial install. | 20:05 |
fsmithred | wicd will be configured in the installed system if you use the desktop-live isos | 20:05 |
fsmithred | but it's not in debian-installer (the installer isos) | 20:05 |
BlackMug | fsmithred what do you mean ppl add after initial install ? its installed by default in devuan not manually | 20:06 |
fsmithred | what nvidia packages got installed? | 20:07 |
fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep nvidia | 20:07 |
fsmithred | don't paste them here! | 20:07 |
fsmithred | or put them on one line | 20:07 |
BlackMug | not showing in your installed version? | 20:08 |
fsmithred | I wouldn't expect it to be installed on intel hardware | 20:09 |
fsmithred | I've never heard of it being installed automatically | 20:09 |
BlackMug | i wouldnt expect to installed at all because its proprietary | 20:09 |
fsmithred | we allow the installer to add non-free and contrib packages if your hardware can use it. | 20:10 |
fsmithred | If you want to exclude that, select Expert install | 20:10 |
plasma41 | fsmithred: Was that not just for wifi firmware? | 20:10 |
fsmithred | not sure. I think maybe firmware-amd-graphics gets added. | 20:11 |
BlackMug | damn thats horrible to have non-free/contrib downloading themselves while installing the distro (even offline) | 20:11 |
fsmithred | well, some people think it's horrible that they can't use their wireless connection. | 20:11 |
fsmithred | especially those who have hardware that doesn't have an ethernet port. | 20:12 |
BlackMug | yes they should knock knock on the wifi manufacture because of their proprietary shit | 20:12 |
fsmithred | true | 20:12 |
plasma41 | I have previously voiced the opinion that non-free firmware, if it is included at all, should be opt-in rather than opt-out. | 20:13 |
BlackMug | not adding proprietary binaries by default to the users. convenient VS freedom | 20:13 |
fsmithred | yeah, the installer would need major changes to do that | 20:14 |
BlackMug | never known this, but this is bad idea hope it wont be the same for the coming releases | 20:14 |
BlackMug | by now Debian has more freedom respect to their users than devuan | 20:15 |
BlackMug | so now the three 3 problems identified | 20:16 |
BlackMug | i think my tests done , thanks again for the support and good discussion | 20:17 |
fsmithred | yw | 20:18 |
fsmithred | thanks for testing and reporting | 20:18 |
BlackMug | if you want me to test new releases or so im at #whonix on OFTC almost 24/7 | 20:18 |
fsmithred | cool, thanks | 20:18 |
BlackMug | have a good day , bye :) | 20:19 |
fsmithred | how can I unmount an iso that I already unmounted. I want to mount it again so I can look at the contents. "/dev/loop1 already mounted or mount point busy." | 20:24 |
fsmithred | 'mount' does not agree with that message | 20:24 |
fsmithred | neither do I | 20:24 |
furrywolf | you shouldn't need to unmount something that's already unmounted... what does "mount" show? | 20:24 |
fsmithred | not any loop or iso | 20:24 |
fsmithred | or mnt (my mountpoint) | 20:25 |
fsmithred | I tried 'losetup -d /dev/loop1' and got no error, but it didn't fix it. | 20:25 |
fsmithred | also tried a different mountpoint and got same error | 20:25 |
furrywolf | does something still have a valid file handle or such? it shouldn't if umount completed, but lsof might be worth a try... | 20:27 |
fsmithred | oh yeah, lsof | 20:28 |
furrywolf | what command are you using to mount it? | 20:28 |
fsmithred | mount devuan-blah.iso mnt | 20:28 |
fsmithred | same as I've been doing since wheezy, I think | 20:29 |
fsmithred | maybe jessie | 20:29 |
furrywolf | do you already have several other things loop mounted? are you inside a nested mount or something silly? | 20:29 |
fsmithred | nope | 20:29 |
furrywolf | reboot? :) | 20:29 |
fsmithred | sitting here at the desk operating pure hardware | 20:30 |
fsmithred | yeah, I didn't want to say that first | 20:30 |
fsmithred | it's been a couple week. Probably time to blow out some dust. | 20:30 |
furrywolf | you're in the right directory to specify "mnt" without a full path? | 20:30 |
fsmithred | yeah, it's in my home | 20:31 |
fsmithred | I got the pid of loop1. Can I kill it? | 20:31 |
furrywolf | pid of loop1? devices have pids now? | 20:31 |
fsmithred | loop1 10008 root txt unknown /proc/10008/exe | 20:31 |
furrywolf | heh, that's new, or I never noticed that. lol | 20:32 |
fsmithred | there are two other lines, instead of txt, they are cwd and rtd | 20:32 |
onefang | Kill the loop, kill the loop, kill the loop... Oops, recursive kill detected, LOOP GENOCIDE! | 20:33 |
fsmithred | it's immortal | 20:33 |
fsmithred | ok, brb | 20:33 |
fsmithred | unless you have another idea | 20:34 |
fsmithred | I could try init 1 first | 20:34 |
furrywolf | if it's in an unkillable state, you might want to make sure you don't have drive errors or such. | 20:34 |
fsmithred | passed and no reallocated sectors | 20:35 |
onefang | That sounds like a reboot and blow the dust off the drive. Just don't remove the rust, it's the only thing holding your data together. | 20:35 |
furrywolf | could be something glitched and/or you found a bug... | 20:35 |
fsmithred | "found" is a little optimistic. "encountered" is closer. | 20:36 |
fsmithred | ok back in a few minutes | 20:37 |
fsmithred | plasma41, I don't see firmware-amd64-graphics in the firmware dir on the iso, so I guess it does not get added by default. I did add it in the desktop-live isos. | 20:45 |
fsmithred | and I do see amd and intel microcode packages in the firmware dir, but I'm not sure if those get installed automatically. I never thought to check. | 20:46 |
fsmithred | nope. It didn't get installed in yesterday's test. | 20:47 |
* fsmithred wonders what loop0 was doing before the reboot. | 20:58 | |
golinux | beta.devuan.org/os/packages | 23:49 |
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