libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2020-04-01

Tenkawathat one "might" improve... who knows00:01
TwistedFateno, it's broken too00:08
TwistedFatemissing a lib that cannot be installed on devuan00:08
Tenkawawhat lib?00:13
Tenkawalet me give it a try here00:13
Tenkawagranted I'm in unstable but its working here00:16
TenkawaSuccessfully installed WoeUSB-ng-0.2.2 numpy-1.18.2 termcolor-1.1.000:17
Tenkawaand it did start.. I will try building a usb stick for another laptop I have later this evening00:18
Guest29857TwistedFate: *does any of know how to create a bootable windows 10 usb flash thumbdrive from a gnu+linux system?*00:36
Guest29857Buy a computer with windows10...00:36
Guest29857Buy a screwdriver...00:36
Guest29857Using your screwdriver for replacing the original hard disk by another one, in which you can install devuan or whatever you want00:36
Guest29857boot devuan (or whatever you want), and plug the original hard disk -including its system- to a usb port00:37
Guest29857after that, run: *update-grub2*00:37
Guest29857this command will add an entry for your windows1000:37
g4570nGuest29857: o/00:37
Tenkawaheheh00:37
Guest29857reboot the system and choose the entry belonging to windows10 in the grub menu00:37
Guest29857Good luck!00:37
Guest29857QUOTE: i've never tested this howto with windows, and i'm overlooking secure boot an so00:38
TenkawaI just use vmware/virtualbox/kvm00:38
Guest29857g4570n! Another windows user?00:38
Guest29857You are welcome!00:38
g4570nLOL00:39
g4570nwinbug?00:39
Guest29857it's not an aprils fools :)00:39
Tenkawa(or one of m y 4 other machines)00:39
TwistedFateTenkawa: wow, how?00:44
TwistedFatei tried 2 different machines and distrosd00:44
TenkawaTwistedFate: it might be because I'm on unstable00:50
Tenkawamy packages are newer00:50
Tenkawawriting it now to see if it actually works though00:51
TwistedFateTenkawa: i'm on unstable too00:59
TenkawaTwistedFate: the original commandline woeusb worked perfectly00:59
TwistedFateTenkawa: how did you install it and how did you run it? as detailed as possible pls :)01:00
TenkawaI just grabbed the repo from git and ran it as so01:00
Tenkawafrom src dir01:00
Tenkawa./woeusb --tgt-fs NTFS --device /root/Win10_1909_English_x64.iso  /dev/sdb01:01
Tenkawareplace iso and sdb with your iso name and usb drive name01:01
Tenkawayou might need to pre partition the usb drive01:05
Tenkawaand select the partition01:06
TenkawaI havent tried that part yet01:06
TenkawaI just checked if it would boot01:06
TenkawaI would advise creating 2 partitions on the usb drive.. one for the media one for the os01:07
TwistedFateTenkawa: have you partitioned your usb?01:10
Tenkawahmmm it wants the whole device.. you'll have to mess around with that part01:10
TwistedFateif you did, how?01:10
TenkawaI'll be back to experiment some more after dinner01:11
tponafanyone else have beowulf version mismatch for gimp and gimp-data packages?07:02
tponafah i can fix by apt purging gimp-data and reinstalling07:03
moireeIs there a problem with updating the unstable archive? Looking at <http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/unstable/main/> shows the Contents-*.gz was last updated three days ago. Isn't it?08:42
meep_____moiree: some of the mirrors don't update very often08:58
meep_____Try refreshing08:58
onefanghttps://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html for the mirror checker that tests things every ten minutes.  The longest listed delay between updates is three hours.08:59
moireehmm09:00
ebisuWill it be possible to upgrade from the Devuan 3 Beta to the real Devuan 3 when it comes out? I'm running it on my desktop with no bugs at all other than the aforementioned and documented NTP bug which is easy to solve, but I want to put something more up to date on my server which is currently running the now 4 year old previous release of Slackware. Is it advisable?16:03
masonebisu: It will, yes.16:05
masonebisu: Also, Slackware 14.2 still gets active security support. It's just always at EL pacing.16:06
ebisuIt does but it's incredibly difficult for me to stay on the ball with my setup at the moment.16:06
masonebisu: You're using slackpkg, yes? That makes it be largely on par with other tools.16:07
masonFolks doing it the older way have a bunch more work.16:07
masonBut anyway, yes, you can go right from the beta to the release when it comes. Most of the packages will be unchanged.16:08
ebisuthank you for the info my dude16:08
masonebisu: The notable bit is that most of the packages are Debian Buster unmodified, so the notion of beta -> release will only really matter for Devuan-specific packages, which will almost certainly have very little churn.16:08
Tenkawayay for apt :)16:08
Tenkawa.. and dpkg16:09
masonTenkawa: The only thing to twitch about with slackpkg is how symlinks are registered. And it works, it's just a bit short of sane.16:10
Tenkawahehehe.. I would love to see a hybrid of how busybox handles links in binary execution16:11
starbarbarianhi all. I upgrade my ascii install to beowulf without pinning anything. I am unable to install network-manager package because it depends on  'libpam-systemd'. Everything else works fine, so I'm not too concerned. I set up wicd instead. Just wondering if this is fixable and what can be done? I have a standard sources.list with beowulf entries.16:12
Tenkawathat is an amazingly efficient concepr16:12
Tenkawaer concept16:12
ebisuslackpkg is literally the greatest thing in the world and i actually completely despise apt but debian has better support for most packages and since im about to redo literally all of my services id rather not hunt down a long list of obscure dependencies for obscure programs again16:12
masonebisu: That's pretty much the compelling factor right there.16:13
ebisuive been putting it off for so long i feel like my server is decaying lol16:13
masonebisu: Devuan is good. You'll like it. Upgrading it is easier still than upgrading Slackware.16:13
ebisumost specifically i have a very very specific XMPP setup16:13
ebisuyeah ive been moving to devuan on all my devices since the 3 beta, there was a short period for a few months where I was using the real debian 1016:14
* Tenkawa was a Slackware user for years but keeping it up to date just became perilous16:14
masonebisu: Ah, there isn't as good a concept of correctly handling variant builds in Devuan. Slackware wins there, even if Gentoo wins more.16:14
ebisuI used slackware one everything for about 6 years16:14
Tenkawaebisu: 1993-2000 or so here16:14
TenkawaDebian since16:14
ebisuBest distro ive ever used but fortunately for me getting back into debian was easy because I used it from around 2010-201416:15
mason2014 stands out in Debian's history. :)16:15
TenkawaI helped port debian to raspberrypi 64 bit recently... now that was fun16:16
Tenkawamason: oh?16:16
ebisuI have a friend IRL who I go to college with and he;s been running the same Slackware install since 2016 and he has the newest MESA, Xorg, and stable kernel pretty much at all times just from self updating and manually compiling packages himself, that guys something else because16:16
Tenkawa(I had memory issues and dont remember those years)16:16
masonThis is better for #debianfork but I don't see you there. In short, systemd fiasco, ZFS fiasco, censorship fiasco around trying to censure Torvalds16:17
ebisui dont have the patience for that lol16:17
Tenkawaebisu: yeah I'm one of those painful ones too that likes to build stuff all the time16:17
masonebisu: Tell him to just run -current...16:17
Tenkawaahhhh that16:17
ebisui was like that but when i seriously screwed up my install i couldnt get ti back together16:17
Tenkawaall I run is current/unstable but I am a developer yhough16:18
Tenkawaer though16:18
TenkawaI've spent 30 years building code16:18
ebisumason the funny thing about current is that for the past 4 years its had a horrible graphics performance bug thats pretty much undiagnosable and ive asked literally everywhere online and everyone i know whose used current has ahad the same problem16:18
tponafanybody interested in an irssi/weechat plugin for more colors in messages?16:18
tponafand he wore a flaming crown http://0x0.st/ia9R.png16:18
ebisuim convinced it will never be fixed16:18
Tenkawatponaf: I would be if I wasnt so darn colorblind :(16:19
ebisuthe issue persists with radeonsi, amdgpu and even nvidias proprietary drivers16:19
nemotponaf: btw, since you enjoy that kind of thing. ever checked out chafa?16:19
nemotponaf: my fav terminal image client by far16:19
tponafno16:19
ebisualso ive had current fail before, i hate rolling release16:19
nemotponaf: here's my comparison screenshots, in mate-terminal16:19
masonebisu: You're in the right place then.16:20
Tenkawaebisu: yeah nvidia drivers plague my workhorse machine16:20
nemotponaf: https://m8y.org/tmp/console_images/16:20
Tenkawabut I really like the box so I deal16:20
ebisubut hey my computer works, like, actually works with no bs16:20
nemotponaf: catimg vs chafa.  catimg also takes exponentially longer on larger images.16:20
ebisuwith devuan 3 now16:21
tponafthis is new to me16:21
TenkawaI like my -j16 compiles :)16:21
ebisuLinux graphics drivers have advanced by 10 years during the gap between Debian 9 and 1016:21
Tenkawaespecially on a laptop16:21
nemotponaf: https://github.com/hpjansson/chafa16:21
Tenkawabrb.. need to reboot for a kernel update..llol16:22
tponafnemo: catimg looks like it only has full-blocks, and xterm 256 color palette16:22
Tenkawaer lol16:22
nemotponaf: I compared catimg and chafa at a reasonable terminal font size, and at smallest mate-terminal allows sanely (holding down ctrl -)16:22
nemotponaf: yeah. most are that way.16:22
nemotponaf: chafa is really impressive in its character options and fitting16:23
nemotponaf: /home/nemo/hg/chafa/tools/chafa/chafa --clear --symbols=all --fill=all -c full -s $(tput cols)x --font-ratio 2/5 "$116:23
nemotponaf: (with my font a 2/5 ratio works well, and I wanted to use full screen width with scrolling upwards thus the -s  set to columns width16:24
nemotponaf: checkout how chafa performs with the smallest font size. it's crazy-close to the original. admittedly in a font where I can just barely make out what I'm typing. but still handy when working remotely. just shrink font, view image, then ctrl 0 it16:25
tponafvery nice to see dithering16:25
nemotponaf: yep, although I'm usually on a full-colour terminal so not a high priority feature for me ☺16:26
nemotponaf: it's good for IRC though, if you're using the 16 colour or extended mIRC 100 colour16:26
nemotponaf: can generate image in chafa then convert to mIRC codes with an ansi-to-mirc16:26
nemolast I checked he didn't have mIRC escaping builtin yet16:27
tponafsadly the irc 99-color palette has redundancies and poor choices16:27
nemotponaf: 100 colour! 0-99?16:27
tponafmy proposal has a 1000 color palette that works well for most sources16:27
tponafwell one is 'transparent'16:27
nemotponaf: the redundancies were deliberate though. they wanted graceful fallback at the 16 colour wrap16:27
tponafand at least 8 are redundant16:27
nemotponaf: for clients doing %1616:28
tponafyou don't really need to have redundant palette values in order to keep the first 16 colors in the same indeces16:28
nemotponaf: what do you mean "transparent" ? 0 is not transparent16:28
nemotponaf: what they wanted was people on the 16 colour set, when getting an image with the extended codes, to get something roughly comprehensible16:29
tponafi think 99 is?16:29
nemono16:29
nemothe last set is just a scale16:29
nemotponaf: http://m8y.org/tmp/extended_mirc_color_proposal.html16:29
tponafthere is no need to duplicate colors to have the first 16 indeces identical to the 16-color palette16:29
nemohm16:29
nemoI stand corrected16:29
nemotponaf: you're right. 99 is undefined16:30
nemowell. not even transparent. so 0-9816:30
nemotponaf: yeah, the intent was to degrade gracefully so people on 16 wouldn't get wildly different colours16:31
nemotponaf: so that %16 would usually have a reasonable-ish mapping16:31
nemoand a lot of people *are* on 16 colour terminals or IRC clients. even people who routinely use full-colour16:31
nemotponaf: that said, irssi does support fullcolour ansi - it's just crazy verbose and breaks IRC unless the server supports IRCv316:32
tponafthat's why i wrote a protocol suitable to the task16:32
nemoyeah, but no one uses the ansi in irssi due to lack of backwards compat16:33
tponafhis 'work factor' is very interesting16:33
nemotponaf: you mean implementation-wise or as a concept?16:34
tponafi've been thinking about that problem a lot, haven't written anything useful16:34
nemotponaf: it's definitely awesome to be able to choose between "best possible rendering for a conversion" and "quick thing to view in terminal"16:34
tponafso i'll definitely look at this16:35
tponafthanks for the link16:35
nemonp.  I'm a big fan16:35
nemoso far just submitted one teensy weensy patch16:35
nemobut already obsoleted by his last rewrite ☺16:35
nemohm16:35
nemoI think.16:35
* nemo looks to see if it is still there16:35
nemohttps://github.com/hpjansson/chafa/commit/ebae1a6cacbd5a0144cc52d9161bb50c4fbffc6216:37
nemojust a teensy weensy change and it's still kinda there.  he's been still working like mad on this though, which is awesome16:37
tponafnice fix16:37
nemotponaf: I use chafa a lot when working on websites.16:41
nemotponaf: so the white on white svg thing was breaking my picking of the right svg icon for a stylesheet I was fixing remotely ☺16:42
nemoI probably should tip him16:42
tponafit is good to submit fixes ++16:43
tponafi should do more16:43
tankyardHi all21:28
tankyardI need a little help with devuan, I installed beowulf and updated to ceres21:29
tankyardanytime I install something from terminal I get message "apt-listchanges:Can't set locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct21:31
tankyardand also about perl warning21:31
meep_____Configure your locale21:31
tankyardcan you explain me how I'm average linux user21:31
meep_____Tankyard: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide21:32
furrywolfif you're an average linux user, running ceres is probably a bad idea.  :)21:33
furrywolfbbl, time for work21:33
meep_____Idk about that21:34
meep_____The average linux user is very much above average computer user level21:35
tankyardusually I find problems on internet when I get stucked but for this I couldn't, didn't knew that Gentoo guide works same for Devuan21:35
meep_____Besides, nothing wrong with giving someone a manual21:35
tankyardI really don't have any problems beside this, I'm running i3 WM21:36
meep_____Be like UNIX and don't assume the user is stupid21:37
meep_____That's Windows and OSX's job21:37
meep_____Tankyard, most of the time the only difference between distributions is the themes the gui comes with, software installed by default, library versions, and different automated tooling doing the same manual tasks21:44
meep_____Which21:44
ejrhi! am i the only one who gets the longer shutdown time when shutting down devuan with full-disk encryption? it usually takes about 30 seconds, hanging at "sda5_crypt...busy"21:44
meep_____You can setup locale by hand, without automated tooling21:44
meep_____ejr: there is a bug opened about that21:45
meep_____They need someone to test different eudev versions before they pass it off to the filesystem team21:45
meep_____If you'd be up for it21:45
tankyardI will try now the guide which you sent me, I was thinkng to try by Arch guide but then I realized that Arch use systemd and maybe it won't work on Devuan21:45
ejrmeep: i'm not really sure how I could test that, I am by no means an expert in that21:49
fsmithredejr, known problem. I'll get the fix for you.21:49
ejrthanks!21:51
fsmithredhttps://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/cryptsetup-modified-functions/blob/master/cryptdisks-functions21:51
fsmithredreplace /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks-functions with that file21:51
meep_____Oh21:51
meep_____fsmithred:21:52
fsmithred?21:52
meep_____Is there a fix or is that just the lowering of timeout workaround?21:52
fsmithredwell, that one eliminates the loop, so yeah, faster timeout21:52
fsmithredalso has a fix for lvm21:53
ejrthank you very much!21:53
fsmithredapparently, a real fix would involve switching to initramfs for shutdown21:53
tankyard<meep_____> thnx for the guide I've configured the locale22:15
meep_____np22:18
* golinux meep-meeps meep22:22
golinux_____22:22
yeti:-D22:26
* meep_____ arooos gollinux23:23
MinceRkang aroo?23:24

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