freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2020-04-17

damatacan anyone tell me why the Beowulf beta fails to install on a USB on either desktop live, or the full DVD iso? I'm going to try using the netinstaller ISO now to see if it'll work.00:00
fsmithreddamata, come back00:09
Xenguytuxd3v: Sorry to read that.  Of course you're going to need to reinstall and restore what you can from backup00:46
XenguyGood luck00:48
frabbithi. i want to visit a website with firefox-esr but i get a security issue, that I dont get with newest firefox. Error code: SEC_ERROR_UNKNOWN_ISSUER I also checked the website with ssllabs.com and get "This server's certificate chain is incomplete. Grade capped to B." Does the server do not support firefox-esr anymore or whats the problem?00:52
djphor an older CA expired00:54
frabbithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_authority01:06
frabbitthis?01:07
djphfrabbit: yes01:39
frabbitdjph: ok thx. so what can i do?01:52
djphcould try updating your system, see if there's a new certificates / ca package01:53
djphwhat's the site, btw?01:53
openbsdt1i123server tex: would you eventually know a cleaner alternative to sharelatex, docker ?02:10
frabbit_djph: nah there isnt...02:12
meep_____chakpapa, if someone could tell where where the put them, I'd love to start making openrc-run native init scripts by hand06:44
meep_____And publishing them upstream to devuan06:44
meep_____I'm already doing that internally06:46
meep_____Also, the sysv sysinit -> openrc-init hybrid approach is super buggy. Especially in LXC containers06:46
meep_____I'd love to help out any endeaver to be able to use full-openrc in devuan06:46
meep_____I use Gentoo so I'm already very aware of how openrc works06:47
meep_____I can develop that feature06:47
masonmeep_____: OpenRC isn't so much scripts as declarative bits like systemd.06:50
masonOh, probably help if I read the whole thing.06:50
meep_____mason: yes06:51
masonAnd I'm wrong in either case. Heh.06:51
meep_____I'm on a Gentoo system typing this right now06:51
meep_____And not really06:51
meep_____It's not declaritive06:51
meep_____It's just it's own interpreter syntax06:51
meep_____With classes06:51
masonI'm too tired and confused to be typing. Sorry. :P06:52
meep_____Like #/bin/bash is to #/bin/sh, #/bin/ksh, is to #/sbin/openrc-run06:52
meep_____You know how in C or Perl you have subroutines07:27
meep_____Or even in sysv07:28
meep_____You can still does those in openrc. In fact for forking daemons that's how you do health checks07:28
meep_____Check() {}07:28
openbsdt1i123is it still possible to find tar.gz, and to compile Netscape 4 Navigator on modern devuan?08:04
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123: i'm assuming no, but let me know if you find out otherwise.  i'm thinking the best you can hope for is to find a binary copy of dubious pedigree and then maybe get it running in a VM on a archived copy of some ancient linux distro version like redhat 5.2 or debian woody08:09
gnarfacei think 2003 or 2004 was the last time i saw a running copy in the wild?  it had already been officially deprecated for years by then though08:12
openbsdt1i123I have impresssion that yes because tiefighter released kde vers 1.08:12
onefangMight be able to compile it on a 32 bit system, but maybe not a 64 bit system then.08:13
openbsdt1i123netscape is still better than dillo.08:13
gnarfacehehe08:13
openbsdt1i123if netscape ran on kde1, it can be multi arch. potaote was multi arch.-08:13
gnarfacethat might not actually be true from a security stand point - the netscape code wasn't known to be very hardened08:13
onefangDillo isn't trying to be a fully fledged web browser.  Netsurf might be useful for you to look at.08:13
onefangOr uzbl.08:14
openbsdt1i123netscape is too better08:15
openbsdt1i123concerning dependencies and source code.08:16
onefangThough uzbl might be webkit based, been a while since I looked at it, and you are trying to avoid webkit?08:18
openbsdt1i123Netscape proved years its superiority as a browser.08:23
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123: the issues is modern websites don't support the NS4 DOM model anymore, so you're gonna run into compatibility problems.  also, probably any banner ads larger than 5MB will crash the poor thing unless it's a fully patched version08:38
gnarfacesorry "DOM model" is a redundancy but i assume you still know what i meant08:39
openbsdt1i123I dont use modern website - doom on google html work08:40
gnarface(and no i'm not bagging on ns4, i actually rather preferred their JS-DOM hooks)08:40
openbsdt1i123I am stuck to old classic html ...08:40
gnarfaceoh, well it might actually be a good choice for that... i do recall one of it's benefits was fast rendering speeds08:40
gnarfaceand a low memory footprint08:40
onefangAh, like the stuff I'w currently writing.  Trying to avoid the use of JavaScript and other fanciness.08:40
onefangs/I'w/I'm/08:41
openbsdt1i123the web is mem hog,08:41
openbsdt1i123better to stick to netscape 4 standard08:42
emdetemay i throw in elinks? ;)08:42
onefangWaaay too complicated.  I was astonished when HTML5 came out, and there was pages and pages of just the NAMES of the technologies that where added.08:42
openbsdt1i123links, elinks, links -g are good but netscape is still better ;) we used it right?08:43
openbsdt1i123remember potatoe debian and the desktop. was cool no=?08:43
openbsdt1i123The desktop and web fast fast and furious...08:43
emdetedidnt we start with mosaic? or what was the name?08:43
onefangMosaic morphed into Netscape, which morphed into Firefox.  I think that's how it went.08:44
gnarfacethere was an extra couple steps in there but that's basically it08:44
gnarfacei was still supporting NS4 for clients years after it was deprecated08:45
gnarfaceit wasn't until the operating systems it would run on were themselves also deprecated, and then further after that when no hardware could be found to run them anymore, that people were finally willing to let it go08:46
gnarfacebut even then, it took me actually demanding they prove testing hardware&software could be found, and them having to admit they couldn't find it08:46
gnarfaceand then i actually had the conversation about how i couldn't guarantee 100% support "from my memory of how it was supposed to work 10 years ago"08:47
gnarfaceyour best bet is probably actually to try to find the earliest version of seamonkey/mozilla still in their repos and try to see if you can build that with the NS4 DOM support still intact08:48
gnarfaceit won't be as fast as NS4 or as light, but it'll probably still be a lot faster and lighter than current firefox, and you'd at least have your proper mjpeg and layer tag support back08:49
gnarfaceand who knows, mabye actually an unaltered ns4 version of the code is still in their repos, but i was under the impression at the time that they were forced to rewrite it all from scratch before the first release due to some patent issues08:51
openbsdt1i123where to get a  kernel-image-server for AMD64 + vmlinz + init.gz + modules for ascii  ?????????10:48
openbsdt1i123I need the header witht eh src to compile sthg.10:48
meep_____No you dont10:50
openbsdt1i123I see only LIinux kernel with header amd64 for cross compiling, but no linux image amd6410:50
meep_____It's just an illusion10:52
openbsdt1i123I need the kernel and the header src to compile modules... but apt-cache search has nothing like this - like in older debian.10:52
meep_____linux-headers-4.9.0-8-amd64/now10:54
openbsdt1i123thank you very much !!10:55
openbsdt1i123in progress. thank you!!! " apt-get install  linux-image-4.9.0-12-amd64  linux-headers-4.9.0-12-amd64 "10:56
openbsdt1i123come on ... it bring grub hell....10:56
onefangOther hells are available.10:57
openbsdt1i123grub will kill my boot10:57
openbsdt1i123my pc wont boot if grub comes in... :(10:58
openbsdt1i123can you remove grub hell from the kernels?10:58
openbsdt1i123just like before10:58
gnarfacelilo is also an option11:00
openbsdt1i123I dont want to change my boot. please clean up the grub mess into kernel deb11:00
gnarfacedoes it still try to install it if you add "--no-install-recommends" to the command-line?11:02
openbsdt1i123oh man ... what a disaster11:08
openbsdt1i123too late...11:08
openbsdt1i123windows 8 32bits wont boot now...11:09
fsmithredkernel should not pull in grub11:12
fsmithredare we talking about -signed packages?11:12
openbsdt1i123please remove grub from kernels.... would be grea11:12
openbsdt1i123t11:12
fsmithredthere's no grub in the kernel11:13
fsmithredlooks like grub is a Suggests11:14
fsmithredor extlinux11:14
fsmithredweird11:14
fsmithredwhich grub package got pulled in? grub-pc? or grub-efi?11:15
openbsdt1i123 quite depressing :... that packages are in devuan like debian  :(11:15
openbsdt1i123I cannot see -- the pc wont boot.. :(11:16
fsmithredwhat installation media do you have? You should be able to boot from that.11:16
fsmithredand what bootloader were you using?11:17
openbsdt1i123no grub does not like windows 8... and I have openbsd as well on it ... so grub is not good for that. To run /legacy boot with windows, and the linux and bsd is just "Art". grubs kills art.11:18
fsmithredthis is the first time I've heard that grub doesn't work with win811:21
fsmithredbsd I don't know11:21
fsmithreddo you have a bootable windows usb?11:22
openbsdt1i123not for the moment, I have to look how to make to work microsoft windows. today, to boot windows on legacy is complex11:23
openbsdt1i123(multiboot)11:23
fsmithredset root=(hd???)11:23
fsmithredchainloader +111:23
openbsdt1i123nope11:23
openbsdt1i123not working,, bill gates does not want11:24
fsmithredbummer11:24
openbsdt1i123billl gates is smart to avoid multiboot11:24
gnarfacethere's some extra lines you need for windows, i didn't memorize them though11:24
gnarfacebut it should work11:24
fsmithred'smart' is not the word I'd have chosen11:24
openbsdt1i123might be opposite .. .;)11:24
openbsdt1i123he  was smart to check on what is windows installed.11:25
openbsdt1i123He was smart to make windows 10 with uefi... and deal with intel.11:25
openbsdt1i123he is smart to give developers C# and Linux like env in windows... he does good job to prevent opensource to grow11:26
openbsdt1i123soon the next geenration of web will be killer too for opensoruce community.11:27
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123: this looks relevant https://askubuntu.com/questions/210914/grub-does-not-show-a-windows-8-option-after-dual-boot11:27
meep_____Windows 10 isn't the product of bill gates11:27
meep_____He left the company before that11:28
openbsdt1i123luckily11:28
gnarfaceopenbsdt1i123: there's an example grub menu entry so you can put it in the config by hand11:28
gnarfacehonestly though i wouldn't bother11:28
openbsdt1i123well, I am obliged to use Microsoft teams11:29
gnarfacewindows boots so fucking slow the experience with your C: being a disk image in qemu is worlds better11:29
gnarfacei'm just saying don't bother repairing the direct boot, just launch it with qemu11:29
openbsdt1i123you cannot use microsoft teams without microsoft office.11:29
gnarfaceoffice totally works through qemu11:29
openbsdt1i123Of course, then, it wont work if you havent a genuine windows on the bottom.11:29
openbsdt1i123ms teams is hell slow on pc, so vmware wont fit.11:30
gnarfaceqemu is way better than vmware11:30
gnarfaceit's worth a try honestly11:30
openbsdt1i123(i need to make ms team phone call, now helas on my android phone, see you later)11:30
openbsdt1i123this is the other benemoth deamon : google.11:30
JorilIsn't Teams available on Linux too nowadays?11:35
fsmithredgoogle says yes, it is11:41
meep_____Not that anybody would use it without being forced to by their corporate employer11:47
meep_____Just look how they fucked up skype11:47
meep_____And github11:47
meep_____And minecraft11:47
openbsdt1i123my bluetooh headset doesnt work12:06
openbsdt1i123you have no choice today, in Europe, most companies have Microsoft.12:07
openbsdt1i123Especially for MS office 365,. MS drive/cloud and the famous MS Exchange. including the "fantastic file sharing "(<-crap) Webdav . woow12:07
gnarfacesome hackery might be able to get that bluetooth headset working.  some of them are known to work (but unfortunately requires pulseaudio these days, or else you have to find a copy of bluez-alsa somewhere and compile it yourself)12:08
openbsdt1i123Since the admins learn during university degrees on closed source OS, the C#, C++, on windows machines, MS will stay up there for next decades...12:09
openbsdt1i123my kids must use google hangout and work on Appple ipad.12:09
openbsdt1i123no choice either... :( we have too.12:10
djphew12:12
onefangThis Microsoft conversation should move to #debianfork, since this channel is for Devuan support.  Please keep things in this channel limited to Devuan support things only.12:14
emdeteokay, i have a support question: my X locks up from time to time for some minutes and recovers afterwords. it seems to be related to chromium/riot-web/webkit because its starting when these programs have the focus. cant even switch console, didnt check netaccess yet. any idea how  to start investigate that issue?12:44
fsmithredfree -m12:45
emdeteno, i doubt its a mem problem, enough mem around, i would assume the program dies which used too much but all programs survive12:50
emdetethe box has 32gb and has 15gb free usually12:50
fsmithredok, that really should be enough12:57
fsmithredI run into browswer lockups with 6G12:57
fsmithredshould say whole desktop lockups12:58
fsmithreddropping to console sometimes takes a minute or so of waiting12:59
specingI sometimes wonder if compiling firefox 32-bit would be better13:01
specingon a 64bit computer13:01
specingmaybe x86_x3213:01
emdetehere it feels more like a interrupt issue, something related to the video driver, but strange thing: aometimes the mouse still moves13:15
emdetefirefox isnt the problem here, its relativly small. firefox isnt the memory eater but the js stuff in the pages. i use umatrix which reduces that alot13:18
LucasRamage[m]Hi all14:09
openbsdt1i123please try to remove in the future grub out of the kernel images/headers packages.. thank you15:22
fsmithredI really don't understand why grub is getting pulled in15:22
openbsdt1i123this is relative to physics15:27
openbsdt1i123When a system gets higher entropie, it is chaotic.15:27
openbsdt1i123If there is on a system like linux, numerous interdependencies, - contrary to BSD, there is a lack of control on the results.15:28
openbsdt1i123Consequently, the installation process and human bug fixing is hazardeous and it demands higher human resources/control/supervision.15:28
fsmithredwhat kind of install did you start with? full desktop? minimal? debootstrap?15:29
openbsdt1i123third, last, so have min.15:29
fsmithredyou were booted in that system when you installed linux-headers, or were you in chroot?15:30
openbsdt1i123I use syslinux to make boot my pc well.15:30
openbsdt1i123I debootstrap, copy lib and then chroot to get shadow changes.15:30
fsmithreddid you use --variant=minbase?15:32
openbsdt1i123Because of the minimum size of Linux, BSD* will remain more reliable than Linux in next decades for servers. This is plain logic.15:32
openbsdt1i123I use the following:15:33
openbsdt1i123  apt-get update ; PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,login,passwd' ;  debootstrap   --no-check-gpg  --include=$PKG    --arch i386 beowulf /target  http://be.deb.devuan.org/merged  ; mkdir /target/lib/modules/15:33
VajbHey. I have a problem with Bluetooth gamepad. It works well for sometime, but suddenly stop working. Controller shows that it is connected, but blueman is completely frozen.15:37
VajbReboot sometimes fixes the issue but not always. I use bluetooth dongle to connect the controller. It is recognized as cambridge bluetooth dongle. Controller is 8bitdoo wireless.15:39
VajbOs is Devuan ascii15:39
VajbDmesg shows lots of hci command timedout messages when controller is connected15:40
VajbSo does this sound like a hardware or software issue?15:41
VajbAnd which would be the steps to fix this issue if it is software issue?15:42
fsmithredopenbsdt1i123, what else did you try to install along with linux-headers?15:44
fsmithredI'm unable to reproduce the problem, but I also just realized that you're doing it in ascii and I'm doing it in beowulf. Not sure if that makes a difference.15:45
openbsdt1i123dont know, ... I checked and grub is too in debian, new releases.15:50
tarzeau15:51
cushVajb: bisect by trying different bluetooth devices perhaps16:37
Vajbcush: Ok, I'll try to borrow another bluetooth dongle. I know controller works flawlessly with my other computer which has integrated bluetooth chip, but never tried it with this dongle before.16:58
* dreamer feeling adventurous and will try to run devuan_ascii_2.0.0_armhf_sunxi on his Lamobo R118:53
crashoverridedjph: nah I wasn't20:18
meep_____What does sunxi mean?23:11
meep_____IEEE-openboot compatible bootloader?23:11
MinceRa series of SoCs by Allwinner23:11
cushorgot23:36

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