freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2020-04-18

meep_____The clock is broken in betawulf07:02
meep_____The xfce clock07:02
hemimaniaccan't be, i just installed it, it was fine07:03
gnarfacemeep_____: sharing a BIOS with a windows install?  rebooting to windows can jack up your clock for the next time you boot to linux07:18
meep_____gnarface: no I mean the xorg XFCE clock extension in the applet bar07:19
meep_____Try changing around the format07:19
meep_____Like to a 12 hour format clock07:19
gnarfaceeh, sorry not using xfce here07:19
meep_____It must be using deprecated strftime formatting or something07:19
meep_____Because it breaks07:19
meep_____If you change it07:19
gnarfacehemimaniac, does it do the same for you?07:20
meep_____You have to set it manually with the strftime() manpage07:20
hemimaniacI'll let ya know next time im in it, i just installed and updated it it was fine when i left07:22
roo^yi've been given a better link for connecting my phone to PC (ADB), with a side note of "you may have to mess with udev". Is this different with non-systemd operating systems?07:22
hemimaniacit was set to systemtime until first rebooot then after update i set it and it seemed fine07:24
golinuxmeep_____: I had to install orage to get the xfce clock to do what I wanted.07:38
gnarfaceroo^y: yea, but only because udev is incomplete and systemd fixes it by just being fundamentally insecure08:49
roo^yok08:49
gnarfacein a fair world, drivers would just ship with appropriate udev rules, but then distros would have to agree on user/group naming conventions or make the udev rules themselves08:50
gnarfaceso systemd sweeps in and obviates that whole thing for them08:50
gnarface(this is how redhat is buying them off)08:51
roo^yi see08:51
gnarfacewell, it's one way anyway08:52
gnarfacebut that's the fundamental pattern08:52
gnarfacethey're just like "see if we provide our coders and this project here, look how many man-hours that saves you guys..."08:52
gnarfacebut it's insecure08:52
gnarfaceand your custom udev rules can be too, if you're not smart about it08:52
gnarfacebut the way systemd does it is just give permission to everything to everyone logged in locally, which pretty much removes all security features08:53
gnarfacefor your custom rules, you should typically assign device read/write permission only as necessary and to as few users/groups as possible08:54
gnarfacesometimes you have to add your own groups to have something appropriate (steam controllers, roccat mice) but you can look here for existing system groups to piggyback off as well.  common stuff is already there... https://wiki.debian.org/SystemGroups#Other_System_Groups08:56
cushwho would like to prevent a catastrophe by buying me some hardware08:57
roo^ythanks, I had that tab open already :) i just wanted to use a app from PC, to enable a hidden feature in the version of my device's android, but a day goes down the toilet with the study it take a n00bie to understand08:58
cushfocusing on the goal and only doing what's needed to get there is necessary08:59
cushit'd be fun to pop a jetson xavier nx cpu board into my jetson nano and see how building stuff goes09:00
cushbut i'd need to sell a lot09:00
gnarfaceroo^y: in most cases you can just change the permissions on the /dev/ files manually with chmod, chgrp and chown.  that's easier for testing most the time; the settings just won't surrive reboot or device hotplug09:01
roo^yalright, thanks09:02
gnarface(notably not with the steam controller always, because it sneakily creates devices on the fly for certain games, so for those you really need the udev rules to be right.  i've not seen that being a big issue with anything else but i've never used an android phone either)09:04
roo^yok09:07
homehi11:27
cushsalve11:27
homeive been using devuan for some time11:27
homehowever on shutdown today grub is /gone/11:28
homethe first (not ueitf) /dev/sda2 partition is a 16 mb partition11:28
homeis this grubs?11:28
homeit was empty, no file sytem11:28
homemy linux partition is /dev/sda5 it seems11:29
homeand windows is on the partitions before11:29
fsmithredgpt or msdos partition table?11:29
homesda1 comes as the ueitf partition11:29
homefsmithred: i did a legacy install11:29
home6 months ago11:29
homeeverything was fine11:30
homeuntill devuan destroyed grub11:30
homenow no matter what I do I cannot get grub back11:30
homewindows boots11:30
homeI can mount the root fs of linux in the devuan usb rescu disc11:30
fsmithredyou reinstalled the windows bootloader?11:30
homefsmithred: no11:30
homeforget about windows11:30
homenothing has been done with it: it works11:30
fsmithredso how is it booting?11:30
homedevuan does not11:30
homeok I see you cannot help me11:31
homefuck11:31
homethis is a 2019 laptop11:31
fsmithredI cannot envision what's going on until you explain it11:31
homewindows boots ueithjausgdnovidhjasgojiadsjaF11:31
homewhatever the new crap is called11:31
fsmithredyou have a big advantage over me - you are there11:31
homeI hade ZERO idea how to install ueoisaugjoijoihdjaesghuF boot for linux11:31
homeso i disabled secure boot and all that 6 mo ago11:31
homeand installed without UEIshjovfokljisjhuigoijghF11:32
home(i don't know what the new thing is called, It begins with U, ends with F11:32
fsmithreduefi11:32
homeI installed using legacy boot11:32
homeI didnt want to even touch the uefi block as then I could be fuked11:32
homeso it worked11:32
homebut now it doesnt11:32
home6 mo later11:32
homeafter a shutdown11:33
homesuddenly11:33
homewhen I try to boot from "notebook harddrive"11:33
homeI just get11:33
home_11:33
home_11:33
home_11:33
home_11:33
home_11:33
home_11:33
fsmithredwith gpt partition table you need a small partition without a filesystem and with bios_grub flag11:33
homeno grub11:33
homeok so I have a 16 mb partition11:33
homethat the rescue dev sees11:33
home"11:33
home/dev/sda: /dev/sda1 : uefi partition11:34
fsmithreddid you check the bios to see that it's still set to legacy?11:34
home/dev/sda2 16 mb partition11:34
homeyes11:34
homeI followed advice and mkfs.fat the /dev/sda211:34
fsmithredyou have some installation media for devuan?11:34
home(note: /dev/sda2 previously wouldn't mount, it was empty11:34
homemy linux partition with my /boot and everythign else is /dev/sda511:34
homeyes I have the usb disc I installed it with11:35
fsmithredregular installer or live-usb?11:35
homeim in graphical rescue mode and as root on /dev/sda5 (as the rescu disc sees it)11:35
homeregular11:35
fsmithredoh cool11:35
fsmithredyou can reinstall grub from there11:35
homeit fails11:36
fsmithredfails how? any error message?11:36
homeone of the rescu options is to reinstall grub on /sda11:36
homeit just wont work11:36
fsmithreddo it manually. Run:11:36
fsmithredgrub-install /dev/sda11:36
fsmithredand then11:36
fsmithredupdate-grub11:37
homewarning this gpt partition contains no bios bo9ot partition: embedding wont be possible11:37
fsmithredright11:37
homewarining iembetting is not possibel11:37
fsmithredthat's the partition I was talking about11:37
homeerror will not proceed with blocklists11:37
fsmithredyou need a small (at least 1M) partition11:37
fsmithredwith no filesystem on it11:38
homeok the problem is11:38
homethis stupif fucking thing mounts the ueif partition as /dev/sda111:38
homelike systemd11:38
fsmithredoh, so it's booting in uefi instead of legacy?11:38
homeit doesnt see the previously empty, now fat32 16mb partition as sda111:38
fsmithredls /sys/firmware/efi11:39
homecannot access11:39
fsmithredok, so you're not in uefi mode11:39
homebut I'm in /dev/sda/11:39
fsmithredwhy did you add the fat32 filesystem?11:40
homea how to fix grub2 thing said to11:41
fsmithredprobably for uefi11:41
homehere is the file system the rescue disk sees:11:41
fsmithredwait11:41
homefsmithred: no: the sda1 is the ueif11:41
homei didn't do anything to that11:41
fsmithreddon't post a bunch of lines here at once11:41
homeI didn't post anything11:41
homeI'm typing this all11:42
fsmithredok11:42
homesda2 was a no fylesystem -cannot mount 16mb partition11:42
fsmithredautomatic spam killer doesn't like mega posts11:42
fsmithredthat was probably the bios_grub partition11:42
fsmithredthat's where the fat32 is?11:43
homethen sda3 is a 47gb windows partition, and sda4 is a 980 mb NTFS partition, sda5 is my linux partiiton11:43
fsmithredI think you can fix this with gdisk11:43
homefsmithred: yes that's what I think too11:43
fsmithredrun gdisk /dev/sda11:43
fsmithreddelete the second partition11:43
fsmithredcreate the second partition11:43
homesda1 has EFI System Volume Information11:44
fsmithredgive it flag ef0211:44
fsmithredyeah, don't mess with sda1 or any of the others11:44
fsmithreddon't give it a new partition table11:44
fsmithredeither of those actions would wipe data11:44
fsmithredthen you can reinstall grub11:45
fsmithredin gdisk it's called 'type' not 'flag'. (Flag is in gparted)11:46
homethe 16 mb partition comes up as "Microsoft reserverd partition"11:46
fsmithredoh11:46
fsmithredthere's not another small partition?11:46
homeno thats the only one11:46
homebut it's the one I mkfs.fat11:47
homeand then installed grub boot files on11:47
homeso it's wiped I guess of whatever it was being used for11:47
homewindows still boots11:47
homesince it uses uetif11:47
fsmithredfdisk -l11:48
fsmithredtell me if it says gpt or msdos11:48
fsmithredDisklabel type: dos   or   Disklabel type: gpt11:49
homeDisklabel type gpt11:49
home/dev/sda1 EFI Sysem11:50
fsmithredok, is that box online?11:50
homeyes11:50
fsmithredcool11:50
fsmithredI'll have you run a couple commands and then paste the output11:51
homesda2 16M Microsoft reserverd11:51
homesda3 47.4G Microsoft basic data11:51
fsmithredfdisk -l > output11:51
fsmithredblkid >> output11:52
fsmithrednc termbin.com 9999 < output11:52
fsmithredand then give me the link. (just the last part - the first part is always the same)11:52
homei can only ping as far as my router11:54
homecan't get dns11:54
homecant ping 4.4.4.411:54
homemaybe I can scp the file to this box11:54
home19a111:55
fsmithred?11:55
homehttps://termbin.com/19a111:55
fsmithredoh11:55
fsmithredyeah, you're missing a partition11:59
fsmithredyou need to create a partition that is at least 1mb size and is type ef0211:59
homeso what do I do12:00
fsmithredor else switch to booting uefi12:00
homeit was all working till today12:00
homeI don't know how to boot uefi12:00
fsmithredand what was the last thing you changed before the last reboot?12:00
homeI added a swapfile12:00
homeadded it to fdisk12:01
home5gb one12:01
fsmithredyou mean fstab?12:01
homecompiled llvm12:01
homeyes12:01
homellvm failed 5 times12:01
homebecause not enough ram12:01
homeeven though I gave the swapfile12:01
homethen I compile darktable as 32bit12:01
homeand finally got that working by editing the code12:02
fsmithrednone of that should change your partitions12:02
home(they "onlyu support 64 bit)12:02
homealso the machine started hanging on shutdown12:02
homeit didnt used to do that12:02
homeat turning off also12:02
homealsa12:02
homeso I had added a script to killall alsa in the beginnign yesterday12:02
homewell maybe the swapfile fucked up the ssd12:03
home(this is a hp machine with an ssd by default)12:03
fsmithredssd shouldn't matter12:03
homessds randomly lose data12:04
homeatleast mine do12:04
homebut it didnt wipe the whole drive12:04
homewhich is what they usually do12:04
fsmithredanyway, you need to make another partition. Either find some free space or steal some from sda212:04
homewhen I installed devuan I just did a legacy install to the mbr12:04
homeill take some from sda212:04
fsmithredyou know how to use gdisk?12:05
homeno12:05
fsmithredit's like fdisk, if you know that12:05
fsmithredrun gdisk /dev/sda12:05
fsmithredthen type h for help12:05
homesda2 was unmountable before I mkfs.fat32 'd it12:05
homei dont know fdisk12:05
fsmithredok, so there was already no filesystem on that partition. That was probably the bios_grub partition12:06
homeso can I redo that?12:06
fsmithredyou could use the whole thing, but it's way bigger than it needs to be12:06
homemake it no fs and give it to grub12:06
fsmithredyeah12:06
homeok how do I do that (whole thing to grub)12:06
fsmithredyou'll have to delete sda2, then make it again and set it to type ef0212:07
homewin obvs doesnt need it as it boots after I mkfs.fat32'd it from unmountable to it12:07
fsmithredyeah, that was probably the win rescue partition12:07
fsmithredother way to do this is to boot a live-cd and run gparted, if you prefer graphical env12:08
homehow does devuan usually do it12:09
fsmithredok, no h for help, ? for help in gdisk12:09
homedoes it steal 1mb from the 1st partiion?12:09
fsmithreddevuan do what?12:09
homewhen you make a non-ueitf boot12:09
fsmithredI'm not sure how the regular installer makes the bios_grub partition12:09
fsmithredthe live installer lets you do it manually and warns you if you didn't do it.12:10
homeshould I give up12:10
fsmithredhell no12:10
homeI don't know how to do any of this12:10
fsmithredis there any important data on the drive that isn't backed up somewhere?12:10
homeif I bios_grub the 16 mb partition, that will mess up windows right?12:10
fsmithredshouldn't make it any worse than it already is12:10
homehow do I do it?12:10
fsmithredyou wiped whatever was on that partition12:11
fsmithredgdisk /dev/sda12:11
fsmithredthen '?' to see the help12:11
homeok im in gdisk12:11
fsmithredjust you you have an idea of what's there12:11
homeshould i d: delete a partion12:11
fsmithredd12:11
fsmithred212:11
fsmithredn12:11
fsmithred212:12
fsmithredthere are some other questions in there that I'm skipping12:12
fsmithredit asks about start and end sectors12:12
homeok did d12:12
home212:12
homen12:12
home(partiotn number: 2-128: default 212:12
home212:12
fsmithredusually defaults work, but your partitions are out of order, so I'm not sure12:12
fsmithredok so far12:12
homenow it's at the sector stuff12:12
fsmithredwhat's it showing?12:13
homeFirst sector (34-250069646, default = 241604608) or {+-}sizeof{KMGTP}12:13
fsmithredstill thinking about this12:15
fsmithredtake the default (press ENTER)12:15
homeok12:15
homenow says last sector12:15
fsmithred+2M12:16
fsmithredwill make a 2mb partition12:16
home(241604608-248049663, default = 24..12:16
homeok12:16
homedid +2M12:16
fsmithredok12:16
fsmithredt12:16
fsmithredfor type12:16
homeCurent type is 'Linux Filesystem'12:16
fsmithredand enter ef0212:16
homeHex code or guid Enter = 830012:17
fsmithredef0212:17
homeChanged type of partion to BIOS BBoot partition12:17
fsmithredcool12:17
fsmithredw12:17
fsmithredto write it to partition table12:17
homethe operation has completed successfully12:18
fsmithredq12:18
fsmithredgrub-install /dev/sda12:18
fsmithredupdate-grub12:18
homeno error reported12:18
fsmithredshould be able to reboot now12:19
home(installing for i386 platform)12:19
fsmithredoh, let it finish12:19
homeyesss gryb is back12:20
fsmithredcool12:20
homebox hangs at stopping light display manager12:20
homethank you for your help12:20
fsmithredstopping?12:21
homeyea, it hangs for a few sec, didn't used to do this12:21
homeI think it might actually be hanging on network manager12:21
fsmithredboot up or shut down?12:21
homeshutdown12:21
homebc I have killed all alsa allready, so now it's the next on the list, ldm12:21
homebut after that IIRC is network manager12:22
fsmithredwhat desktop are you using?12:22
homexdm12:22
fsmithredxfce?12:22
homeyes12:22
homesorry12:22
homexfce12:22
homeill change the kill to kill network manager and see if the hanging stops12:22
fsmithredusing wicd or did you replace it with network-manager?12:23
homei think net manager is running12:23
homeshould it be?12:23
homeI had it as default12:23
fsmithredyou shouldn't need to have a script to kill these things12:23
fsmithreddefault in xfce is wicd12:23
homeright after the alsa shutdown is the hanging...12:25
homethen it goes to "asking all remaining to stop" after a bit12:25
fsmithredI can't think of what would do that. You don't have any encrypted partitions.12:26
fsmithredmaybe post on forum or mailing list about the shutdown problem. Might take some investigation.12:27
homethank you for your help12:29
fsmithredyw12:29
homeI was like "oh no I got SSD'd after I did all that work just to show the darktable people that you can run it on 32bit"12:30
homebut whatever the problem was you fixed it12:30
homeand the SSD didn't wip :D12:30
fsmithredgood12:30
home(my last ssd wiped itself)12:30
home(an intel)12:30
fsmithredit was just the missing bios_grub partition12:30
fsmithredyikes12:30
homeyea: I alwas code on HDDs now12:30
fsmithredI got a crucial ssd that's been good for a year12:30
homeand do 3d stuff on HDDs too12:31
homemine was good for 1/2 a year12:31
homewiped on a power outage12:31
homeor a hard shutdown12:31
fsmithredouch12:31
homewith an HDD you can order the same type of HDD and maybe put your old platters in12:31
homebut ssd: it's gone12:31
homealso hdd seems to give warning before the end: and even if it's part broken you can still recover files12:32
homethat's what I've experianced12:32
homeI remeber one that could barely turn on but i got my files off of it12:32
homeSSDs don't give warning12:33
homejust "poof"12:33
homefsmithred: I heard Bruce Perens uses devuan, is that true?12:34
fsmithredI think it might be12:35
homethat's a big name12:35
fsmithredhe's on our mailing list and has had good things to say about devuan12:35
homehe was the head of debian once, right?12:35
fsmithredyeah, or some key position12:35
homeI like devuan because it's the linux I sorta know12:36
homesystemd is alien and always changing12:36
homeand hangs12:36
fsmithredsame here. It's more like debian than debian is.12:36
homethanks for getting this laptop booting again12:37
homeI'm printing out the convo so if it happens again I'll just read through the thing again :P12:37
homenow to see if darktables does tethering with nikon cameras as well as it did in 201512:38
home(it did it pretty well back then)12:39
homesee you later12:39
homeand thanks again12:39
fsmithredbye12:39
fsmithredhave fun12:39
ShorTieE: Failed to fetch https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN/main/m/make-dfsg/make_4.2.1-1.2_arm64.deb  Certificate verification failed13:51
ShorTieblaaa....13:51
cushi got Version: 4.2.1-1.2 no probs13:55
openbsdt1i123which old debian had QT 1.42? was it potatoe?14:35
cushwe should add questions like that to a FOSS trivia bot database14:43
phillipsjkgrr. cron appeared not to trigger again.15:05
phillipsjkps -aux | grep cron shows it is in memory.15:06
* phillipsjk does not really have time to troubleshoot at the moment15:06
phillipsjkI did edit crontab yesterday. I wonder is the shutdown script does not give BTRFS time to properlay save work on a slow USB flash drive. It then "repairs" after boot, after cron reads the file.15:52
gnarfacephillipsjk: did you set the MAILTO variable?15:56
phillipsjkno16:05
phillipsjkmail is still unconfigured.16:06
phillipsjklast time it started working after a reboot. I can only guess as to why.16:06
HurgotronHmm. package xfwm4-themes seems to be missing from beowulf. (It's in ascii and seems to work fine.) Any idea why?16:12
gnarfacesorry no, Hurgotron16:13
gnarfacephillipsjk: i recommend setting MAILTO it should send some errors, it should be able to mail local users16:14
gnarfacei mean, you might have to install a MTA but it would work without a network connection16:14
gnarfaceit should be easy to set exim4 to only do local mail16:16
gnarfaceuse dpkg-reconfigure16:16
ShorTieE: Release file for http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/beowulf/InRelease is not valid yet16:46
ShorTie(invalid for another 18370d 3h 25min 31s). Updates for this repository will not be applied.16:46
ShorTiedon't think i'll live that long, lol.16:46
gnarfaceis your clock right?16:46
ShorTieno it is not16:47
gnarfaceheh, i'm pretty sure it has to be right16:59
gnarfaceor at least nearby to right16:59
ShorTieya, twas at 1970 .. :/~17:00
ShorTienow i get, WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.17:03
fsmithrednot stable means they might change the way it works17:09
fsmithredwhich would break your scripts17:09
ShorTiewhat is the best way to get rid of dash ??17:14
ShorTieit just doesn't work like bash17:14
gnarfaceinstall bash17:14
fsmithredso don't use it17:14
fsmithredisn't bash your default shell?17:14
ShorTiebash is already installed17:14
gnarfaceoh, hmm... you can either dpkg-reconfigure something or you can update-alternatives something...17:14
ShorTieand you can not --exclude=dash17:15
gnarfaceoh duh17:16
gnarfacechange it in your /etc/passwd17:16
fsmithredAre you doing a debootstrap install?17:16
gnarfaceyou can just change it there by hand17:16
ShorTieyes sir17:16
gnarfacei forget what the exact command is17:16
fsmithredoh, usermod would work17:17
gnarfacedebian wiki says it's chsh17:17
fsmithredor that17:17
gnarfacehttps://wiki.debian.org/Shell17:17
gnarfacegoogle to the rescue17:17
fsmithred'aptitude why dash' on my system shows it's there indirectly because of devscripts17:17
gnarfaceit was also mentioned to change /etc/adduser.conf so it's the default for newly created users (if it isn't already)17:18
fsmithredoh, /bin/sh is a symlink to /bin/dash17:18
fsmithredto dash (relative link)17:19
fsmithredI would keep it, but not as my default17:19
ShorTiejust changing the symlink is not enough17:19
fsmithredI wouldn't do that17:20
fsmithredsome scripts might be written to expect dash17:20
gnarfacedoubt it but i guess that's possible17:20
ShorTiemost are wanting bash17:20
gnarfacehmmm17:21
ShorTiethus why things do not work right down under17:21
ShorTiecan not use {} when making directories17:21
ShorTieor *'s for chown17:22
gnarfaceit seems to be a mix on my systems17:22
gnarfacesome are pointing to dash, some bash17:22
ShorTieit's the things in 'make install's that don't work right17:22
fsmithredif you're running into this on the command line, change user's default shell. If you're running into this in your scripts, put bash on the shebang line17:23
ShorTiecan't do that17:23
ShorTieto many and who knows where they are all17:23
fsmithredwhere'd they come from?17:23
fsmithredattempting to remove dash gives me this message:17:24
fsmithredWARNING: Performing this action will probably cause your system to break!17:24
ShorTieya, it's the dash bug17:25
ShorTiewell known about17:25
gnarfacei would think there's some update-alternatives thing to run to change it but i'm not sure i remember17:26
ShorTiei use17:26
ShorTie  echo "dash dash/sh boolean false" | debconf-set-selections17:27
ShorTie  DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive dpkg-reconfigure dash17:27
ShorTiebut that still does not get it all17:27
ShorTieand it's why LFS does not like/use Debian17:30
gnarfacehmm.... definitely looks more complicated than anything i remember having to do...17:30
gnarfaceoh17:32
ShorTiebe better then Debian, get rid of dash, lol.17:32
gnarfacemaybe it really is just "dpkg-reconfigure dash"17:32
gnarfacetry that ShorTie ^17:32
ShorTiedebconf-show dash17:34
ShorTiesee that *, that is the problem17:34
ShorTie"Before DebianSqueeze, Bash was used as the default non-interactive shell."17:45
ShorTiecan't be reverted ??17:45
fsmithredIf you run dpkg-reconfigure dash, I'd like to know what happens after you tell it not to use dash.17:45
fsmithredI was afraid to change it.17:45
fsmithreddoes it ask what you want to use instead?17:46
ShorTienop, just asks yes or no17:46
fsmithredls -l /bin/sh17:46
ShorTiesays bash17:46
fsmithredok17:46
fsmithredmaybe that's the only other shell on the system17:47
ShorTiebut that does mean anything17:47
ShorTieit is17:47
fsmithredwould have to install another shell and do it again to test17:47
fsmithredI'm not that interested in the answer17:48
gnarfacethe more important question is does it still boot?17:48
gnarfaceit should and i believe it is a bug if it does not17:48
gnarfacebut i'm not the authority on the matter...17:48
ShorTiewhat does booting have to do with it ??17:48
gnarfacethe init scripts17:48
fsmithredscripts run during boot17:48
ShorTieyes it still boots17:49
gnarfaceyou checked since /bin/sh started pointing to bash?17:49
fsmithredmake sure you have another system to boot in case you need to fix an unbootable system17:49
fsmithredlive-usb or something17:49
fsmithredinstaller media17:49
gnarfacethe mini.iso is super useful17:50
ShorTiegot a half dozen pi's here, another system is no problemo17:50
ShorTiecan't use any of those iso's17:50
fsmithredas long as you can mount the partition, so you can work on it17:51
filipdevuan_yesterday i have installed devuan beowulf with refracta installer and it's really nice :-)17:51
fsmithredglad you like it17:51
filipdevuan_compared to live dvd iso that one is does installation really quick!!17:51
filipdevuan_yes :P17:51
fsmithredseems to be a love it or hate it thing17:52
filipdevuan_i dont know why somebody would hate it17:52
filipdevuan_?? ;o17:52
fsmithredit's a lot different from debian(devuan)-installer17:52
gnarfaceit imposes a lot of different defaults17:52
fsmithredwhich ones annoy you the most?17:53
filipdevuan_but installed system is 10/1017:53
filipdevuan_well live dvd installer takes like 30 minutes to install17:53
filipdevuan_that one took few minutes17:53
filipdevuan_it seems like it just copies the live iso stuff into hdd nothing else so it's really nice ;p17:54
fsmithredwhich live dvd installer do you mean?17:54
filipdevuan_4.1GB one17:54
fsmithreddesktop dvd iso17:54
filipdevuan_oh sorry no live17:54
filipdevuan_yeah17:54
fsmithredok, we don't call that a live system17:54
filipdevuan_yes yes i know my mistake :P17:55
fsmithred:)17:55
fsmithreddebian-installer on a live-cd should do roughly the same thing. It's quick.17:55
fsmithredI hope to include that someday in the not-too-distant future17:55
fsmithredShorTie, did you reboot yet?17:56
filipdevuan_debian-installer lets somebody choose desktop environment??17:57
gnarfaceit lets you choose whether or not to use a desktop environment at least17:58
filipdevuan_so it looks like that's the only difference then between refracta installer17:58
gnarfacei think it might also let you choose between a couple major ones17:58
gnarfaceand control your partition layout...17:58
fsmithredrefractainstaller does not partition for you, and it's not set up to do raid or lvm17:59
fsmithredit's possible to do those manually and run the cli installer, but that's not exactly intuitive.17:59
filipdevuan_oh glad i know a bit about partitions ;p17:59
filipdevuan_partitioning*17:59
filipdevuan_ok nvm thanks :)18:00
ShorTieok, rebooted for yucks18:00
ShorTieoh ya, iso's don't really work for arm64 .. :/~18:01
fsmithredlooks like it all works?18:01
gnarfacebrb18:08
parazydIf anyone wants to do a talk about Devuan, you're more than welcome: gopher://bitreich.org/1/con/202021:32
systemdletebeta.devuan.org says that "Beowulf 3.0.0 is our current stable release."  and that "ASCII 2.1 point release has now moved to oldstable status."21:34
systemdleteBut devuan.org says "ATTENTION: If you are testing Beowulf beta please use beta.devuan.org for relevant documentation. This branch of the website applies to ASCII, Devuan’s current stable release."21:34
systemdleteoops?21:34
systemdleteI have not seen an announcement for Beowulf GA release.21:35
systemdleteI note that the mirrors still seem to point to beta ISOs.21:38
systemdleteDid somebody "jump the shark" as so many millenials like to say nowadays?21:38
MinceRi don't think that's what jumping the shark means21:39
DonkeyHotei"jumping the shark" is a term from 40 years ago meaning "outliving relevance"21:40
systemdleteI never heard that expression, even once, 40 years ago!21:40
DonkeyHoteii did21:40
systemdleteBut I hear it all the time, here, on the Internet!21:40
DonkeyHoteiit has endured21:41
systemdleteSo, can anyone explain why my view of the devuan universe seems to be... uh, inconsistent?21:41
furrywolfI think you're confusing "jumping the shark" with "jumping the gun".21:44
furrywolfand the simple answer is that the beta site is, itself, not released yet.  when the beta site becomes the main site, it will all make sense.21:44
systemdleteI've heard them used interchangeably.21:44
systemdleteAh, I see.21:44
furrywolfthey are not interchangable, and mean entirely different things.21:45
furrywolfanyone who is using them interchangably is, simply, wrong.  lol21:45
systemdleteSomeone ought to put out a bulletin to let them know.  I am only reporting...21:45
systemdleteThat can't be my fault.  I hear it used, so I naturally use it the same way.  If someone else is abusing the term, and I copy them, well...21:46
furrywolfjumping the gun refers to starting a race before the firing gun is fired.  that is, doing something too early.21:46
systemdleteYes, I know that.  That expression has been around for as long as firing guns have been in existence.21:46
furrywolfjumping the shark refers to a tv show (I can't remember which right now) doing some ridiculous plot involving a character jumping over a shark in a tank, because they'd ran out of ideas, no one was watching the show, their ratings were plummeting, and they were no longer relevant, so they were trying absurd things to try to stay relevant.21:47
systemdleteI just figured that it had gone the way of "hot" which later became "cool"... or something confusing like that.21:47
systemdleteHappy Days.  I just looked it up.21:47
systemdleteI guess from now on, I will research any new terms I hear.21:48
furrywolfgiven as one means being too early, and the other gone on too long, they're pretty much opposites.  lol21:48
systemdleteIt seems, yes.21:48
furrywolfs/firing gun is fired/starting gun is fired/21:48
systemdletewhatever, I gotcha.21:49
* furrywolf shouldn't type while eating, increases brain-os.21:49
systemdletealso, you could get food all over your fur21:50
furrywolfyep.  always annoying.21:51
systemdletedo you eat in your furry suit?21:51
systemdletecan it be dry-cleaned?21:52
* furrywolf does not have a fursuit21:52
systemdleteof course not21:52
systemdleteI didn't mean it that way21:52
furrywolfno, you don't dry-clean them.  usually you hand wash with mild soap and water.21:52
systemdletewoolite?21:52
systemdlete(sorry, didn't mean to get so... eh, personal)21:53
furrywolffursuits are polyester-based faux (fake) fur, polyurethane foam, and similar synthetic materials.  you don't dry-clean them because the chemicals may dissolve the glue used to attach to the foam, the paints used for the eyes, or things like that.21:55
DonkeyHotei#debianfork21:55
systemdleteWe must be getting close to a release candidate.21:55
specingfurrywolf is a candidate to release into the wild22:18
systemdleteUnless furrywolf is full of bugs22:24
* furrywolf growls at systemdlete 22:24
* systemdlete runs away22:24
meep_____LMFAO23:24
meep_____systemdlete, furrywolf, specing, bravo23:25
DonkeyHoteiif he is full of bugs, open a ticket23:27
meep_____furrywolf: are you full of bugs?23:27
systemdleteDonkeyHotei:  But he will know he is being tracked...23:29
* systemdlete runs off to debianfork23:29
meep_____No just the bugs23:29
golinuxDonkeyHotei: furrywolf is not a he23:34
DonkeyHoteihmm, i thought i saw self-reference otherwise, but maybe i'm thinking of someone else23:35
golinuxWould a he need a strapon?23:36
golinuxAnd we're way OT here.  Take oit too the fork . . .23:36
MinceRif they're not well endowed :>23:36
DonkeyHoteisearching my backlog of #debianfork shows only one match for that, and it wasn't clear23:37
DonkeyHoteisorry23:37
fsmithredcabin fever is spreading all over the world23:48
DonkeyHoteialso #debianfork23:49
fsmithredanyone who's bored can test beowulf isos23:49
golinuxYes.  The stupidity on these channels is starting to get out of hand.23:52
golinux(no pun intended)23:52
djphgolinux: was the stupidity in IRC ever really "in hand" ?23:54
meep_____More like in-paw23:54

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