meep_____ | The clock is broken in betawulf | 07:02 |
---|---|---|
meep_____ | The xfce clock | 07:02 |
hemimaniac | can't be, i just installed it, it was fine | 07:03 |
gnarface | meep_____: sharing a BIOS with a windows install? rebooting to windows can jack up your clock for the next time you boot to linux | 07:18 |
meep_____ | gnarface: no I mean the xorg XFCE clock extension in the applet bar | 07:19 |
meep_____ | Try changing around the format | 07:19 |
meep_____ | Like to a 12 hour format clock | 07:19 |
gnarface | eh, sorry not using xfce here | 07:19 |
meep_____ | It must be using deprecated strftime formatting or something | 07:19 |
meep_____ | Because it breaks | 07:19 |
meep_____ | If you change it | 07:19 |
gnarface | hemimaniac, does it do the same for you? | 07:20 |
meep_____ | You have to set it manually with the strftime() manpage | 07:20 |
hemimaniac | I'll let ya know next time im in it, i just installed and updated it it was fine when i left | 07:22 |
roo^y | i've been given a better link for connecting my phone to PC (ADB), with a side note of "you may have to mess with udev". Is this different with non-systemd operating systems? | 07:22 |
hemimaniac | it was set to systemtime until first rebooot then after update i set it and it seemed fine | 07:24 |
golinux | meep_____: I had to install orage to get the xfce clock to do what I wanted. | 07:38 |
gnarface | roo^y: yea, but only because udev is incomplete and systemd fixes it by just being fundamentally insecure | 08:49 |
roo^y | ok | 08:49 |
gnarface | in a fair world, drivers would just ship with appropriate udev rules, but then distros would have to agree on user/group naming conventions or make the udev rules themselves | 08:50 |
gnarface | so systemd sweeps in and obviates that whole thing for them | 08:50 |
gnarface | (this is how redhat is buying them off) | 08:51 |
roo^y | i see | 08:51 |
gnarface | well, it's one way anyway | 08:52 |
gnarface | but that's the fundamental pattern | 08:52 |
gnarface | they're just like "see if we provide our coders and this project here, look how many man-hours that saves you guys..." | 08:52 |
gnarface | but it's insecure | 08:52 |
gnarface | and your custom udev rules can be too, if you're not smart about it | 08:52 |
gnarface | but the way systemd does it is just give permission to everything to everyone logged in locally, which pretty much removes all security features | 08:53 |
gnarface | for your custom rules, you should typically assign device read/write permission only as necessary and to as few users/groups as possible | 08:54 |
gnarface | sometimes you have to add your own groups to have something appropriate (steam controllers, roccat mice) but you can look here for existing system groups to piggyback off as well. common stuff is already there... https://wiki.debian.org/SystemGroups#Other_System_Groups | 08:56 |
cush | who would like to prevent a catastrophe by buying me some hardware | 08:57 |
roo^y | thanks, I had that tab open already :) i just wanted to use a app from PC, to enable a hidden feature in the version of my device's android, but a day goes down the toilet with the study it take a n00bie to understand | 08:58 |
cush | focusing on the goal and only doing what's needed to get there is necessary | 08:59 |
cush | it'd be fun to pop a jetson xavier nx cpu board into my jetson nano and see how building stuff goes | 09:00 |
cush | but i'd need to sell a lot | 09:00 |
gnarface | roo^y: in most cases you can just change the permissions on the /dev/ files manually with chmod, chgrp and chown. that's easier for testing most the time; the settings just won't surrive reboot or device hotplug | 09:01 |
roo^y | alright, thanks | 09:02 |
gnarface | (notably not with the steam controller always, because it sneakily creates devices on the fly for certain games, so for those you really need the udev rules to be right. i've not seen that being a big issue with anything else but i've never used an android phone either) | 09:04 |
roo^y | ok | 09:07 |
home | hi | 11:27 |
cush | salve | 11:27 |
home | ive been using devuan for some time | 11:27 |
home | however on shutdown today grub is /gone/ | 11:28 |
home | the first (not ueitf) /dev/sda2 partition is a 16 mb partition | 11:28 |
home | is this grubs? | 11:28 |
home | it was empty, no file sytem | 11:28 |
home | my linux partition is /dev/sda5 it seems | 11:29 |
home | and windows is on the partitions before | 11:29 |
fsmithred | gpt or msdos partition table? | 11:29 |
home | sda1 comes as the ueitf partition | 11:29 |
home | fsmithred: i did a legacy install | 11:29 |
home | 6 months ago | 11:29 |
home | everything was fine | 11:30 |
home | untill devuan destroyed grub | 11:30 |
home | now no matter what I do I cannot get grub back | 11:30 |
home | windows boots | 11:30 |
home | I can mount the root fs of linux in the devuan usb rescu disc | 11:30 |
fsmithred | you reinstalled the windows bootloader? | 11:30 |
home | fsmithred: no | 11:30 |
home | forget about windows | 11:30 |
home | nothing has been done with it: it works | 11:30 |
fsmithred | so how is it booting? | 11:30 |
home | devuan does not | 11:30 |
home | ok I see you cannot help me | 11:31 |
home | fuck | 11:31 |
home | this is a 2019 laptop | 11:31 |
fsmithred | I cannot envision what's going on until you explain it | 11:31 |
home | windows boots ueithjausgdnovidhjasgojiadsjaF | 11:31 |
home | whatever the new crap is called | 11:31 |
fsmithred | you have a big advantage over me - you are there | 11:31 |
home | I hade ZERO idea how to install ueoisaugjoijoihdjaesghuF boot for linux | 11:31 |
home | so i disabled secure boot and all that 6 mo ago | 11:31 |
home | and installed without UEIshjovfokljisjhuigoijghF | 11:32 |
home | (i don't know what the new thing is called, It begins with U, ends with F | 11:32 |
fsmithred | uefi | 11:32 |
home | I installed using legacy boot | 11:32 |
home | I didnt want to even touch the uefi block as then I could be fuked | 11:32 |
home | so it worked | 11:32 |
home | but now it doesnt | 11:32 |
home | 6 mo later | 11:32 |
home | after a shutdown | 11:33 |
home | suddenly | 11:33 |
home | when I try to boot from "notebook harddrive" | 11:33 |
home | I just get | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
home | _ | 11:33 |
fsmithred | with gpt partition table you need a small partition without a filesystem and with bios_grub flag | 11:33 |
home | no grub | 11:33 |
home | ok so I have a 16 mb partition | 11:33 |
home | that the rescue dev sees | 11:33 |
home | " | 11:33 |
home | /dev/sda: /dev/sda1 : uefi partition | 11:34 |
fsmithred | did you check the bios to see that it's still set to legacy? | 11:34 |
home | /dev/sda2 16 mb partition | 11:34 |
home | yes | 11:34 |
home | I followed advice and mkfs.fat the /dev/sda2 | 11:34 |
fsmithred | you have some installation media for devuan? | 11:34 |
home | (note: /dev/sda2 previously wouldn't mount, it was empty | 11:34 |
home | my linux partition with my /boot and everythign else is /dev/sda5 | 11:34 |
home | yes I have the usb disc I installed it with | 11:35 |
fsmithred | regular installer or live-usb? | 11:35 |
home | im in graphical rescue mode and as root on /dev/sda5 (as the rescu disc sees it) | 11:35 |
home | regular | 11:35 |
fsmithred | oh cool | 11:35 |
fsmithred | you can reinstall grub from there | 11:35 |
home | it fails | 11:36 |
fsmithred | fails how? any error message? | 11:36 |
home | one of the rescu options is to reinstall grub on /sda | 11:36 |
home | it just wont work | 11:36 |
fsmithred | do it manually. Run: | 11:36 |
fsmithred | grub-install /dev/sda | 11:36 |
fsmithred | and then | 11:36 |
fsmithred | update-grub | 11:37 |
home | warning this gpt partition contains no bios bo9ot partition: embedding wont be possible | 11:37 |
fsmithred | right | 11:37 |
home | warining iembetting is not possibel | 11:37 |
fsmithred | that's the partition I was talking about | 11:37 |
home | error will not proceed with blocklists | 11:37 |
fsmithred | you need a small (at least 1M) partition | 11:37 |
fsmithred | with no filesystem on it | 11:38 |
home | ok the problem is | 11:38 |
home | this stupif fucking thing mounts the ueif partition as /dev/sda1 | 11:38 |
home | like systemd | 11:38 |
fsmithred | oh, so it's booting in uefi instead of legacy? | 11:38 |
home | it doesnt see the previously empty, now fat32 16mb partition as sda1 | 11:38 |
fsmithred | ls /sys/firmware/efi | 11:39 |
home | cannot access | 11:39 |
fsmithred | ok, so you're not in uefi mode | 11:39 |
home | but I'm in /dev/sda/ | 11:39 |
fsmithred | why did you add the fat32 filesystem? | 11:40 |
home | a how to fix grub2 thing said to | 11:41 |
fsmithred | probably for uefi | 11:41 |
home | here is the file system the rescue disk sees: | 11:41 |
fsmithred | wait | 11:41 |
home | fsmithred: no: the sda1 is the ueif | 11:41 |
home | i didn't do anything to that | 11:41 |
fsmithred | don't post a bunch of lines here at once | 11:41 |
home | I didn't post anything | 11:41 |
home | I'm typing this all | 11:42 |
fsmithred | ok | 11:42 |
home | sda2 was a no fylesystem -cannot mount 16mb partition | 11:42 |
fsmithred | automatic spam killer doesn't like mega posts | 11:42 |
fsmithred | that was probably the bios_grub partition | 11:42 |
fsmithred | that's where the fat32 is? | 11:43 |
home | then sda3 is a 47gb windows partition, and sda4 is a 980 mb NTFS partition, sda5 is my linux partiiton | 11:43 |
fsmithred | I think you can fix this with gdisk | 11:43 |
home | fsmithred: yes that's what I think too | 11:43 |
fsmithred | run gdisk /dev/sda | 11:43 |
fsmithred | delete the second partition | 11:43 |
fsmithred | create the second partition | 11:43 |
home | sda1 has EFI System Volume Information | 11:44 |
fsmithred | give it flag ef02 | 11:44 |
fsmithred | yeah, don't mess with sda1 or any of the others | 11:44 |
fsmithred | don't give it a new partition table | 11:44 |
fsmithred | either of those actions would wipe data | 11:44 |
fsmithred | then you can reinstall grub | 11:45 |
fsmithred | in gdisk it's called 'type' not 'flag'. (Flag is in gparted) | 11:46 |
home | the 16 mb partition comes up as "Microsoft reserverd partition" | 11:46 |
fsmithred | oh | 11:46 |
fsmithred | there's not another small partition? | 11:46 |
home | no thats the only one | 11:46 |
home | but it's the one I mkfs.fat | 11:47 |
home | and then installed grub boot files on | 11:47 |
home | so it's wiped I guess of whatever it was being used for | 11:47 |
home | windows still boots | 11:47 |
home | since it uses uetif | 11:47 |
fsmithred | fdisk -l | 11:48 |
fsmithred | tell me if it says gpt or msdos | 11:48 |
fsmithred | Disklabel type: dos or Disklabel type: gpt | 11:49 |
home | Disklabel type gpt | 11:49 |
home | /dev/sda1 EFI Sysem | 11:50 |
fsmithred | ok, is that box online? | 11:50 |
home | yes | 11:50 |
fsmithred | cool | 11:50 |
fsmithred | I'll have you run a couple commands and then paste the output | 11:51 |
home | sda2 16M Microsoft reserverd | 11:51 |
home | sda3 47.4G Microsoft basic data | 11:51 |
fsmithred | fdisk -l > output | 11:51 |
fsmithred | blkid >> output | 11:52 |
fsmithred | nc termbin.com 9999 < output | 11:52 |
fsmithred | and then give me the link. (just the last part - the first part is always the same) | 11:52 |
home | i can only ping as far as my router | 11:54 |
home | can't get dns | 11:54 |
home | cant ping 4.4.4.4 | 11:54 |
home | maybe I can scp the file to this box | 11:54 |
home | 19a1 | 11:55 |
fsmithred | ? | 11:55 |
home | https://termbin.com/19a1 | 11:55 |
fsmithred | oh | 11:55 |
fsmithred | yeah, you're missing a partition | 11:59 |
fsmithred | you need to create a partition that is at least 1mb size and is type ef02 | 11:59 |
home | so what do I do | 12:00 |
fsmithred | or else switch to booting uefi | 12:00 |
home | it was all working till today | 12:00 |
home | I don't know how to boot uefi | 12:00 |
fsmithred | and what was the last thing you changed before the last reboot? | 12:00 |
home | I added a swapfile | 12:00 |
home | added it to fdisk | 12:01 |
home | 5gb one | 12:01 |
fsmithred | you mean fstab? | 12:01 |
home | compiled llvm | 12:01 |
home | yes | 12:01 |
home | llvm failed 5 times | 12:01 |
home | because not enough ram | 12:01 |
home | even though I gave the swapfile | 12:01 |
home | then I compile darktable as 32bit | 12:01 |
home | and finally got that working by editing the code | 12:02 |
fsmithred | none of that should change your partitions | 12:02 |
home | (they "onlyu support 64 bit) | 12:02 |
home | also the machine started hanging on shutdown | 12:02 |
home | it didnt used to do that | 12:02 |
home | at turning off also | 12:02 |
home | alsa | 12:02 |
home | so I had added a script to killall alsa in the beginnign yesterday | 12:02 |
home | well maybe the swapfile fucked up the ssd | 12:03 |
home | (this is a hp machine with an ssd by default) | 12:03 |
fsmithred | ssd shouldn't matter | 12:03 |
home | ssds randomly lose data | 12:04 |
home | atleast mine do | 12:04 |
home | but it didnt wipe the whole drive | 12:04 |
home | which is what they usually do | 12:04 |
fsmithred | anyway, you need to make another partition. Either find some free space or steal some from sda2 | 12:04 |
home | when I installed devuan I just did a legacy install to the mbr | 12:04 |
home | ill take some from sda2 | 12:04 |
fsmithred | you know how to use gdisk? | 12:05 |
home | no | 12:05 |
fsmithred | it's like fdisk, if you know that | 12:05 |
fsmithred | run gdisk /dev/sda | 12:05 |
fsmithred | then type h for help | 12:05 |
home | sda2 was unmountable before I mkfs.fat32 'd it | 12:05 |
home | i dont know fdisk | 12:05 |
fsmithred | ok, so there was already no filesystem on that partition. That was probably the bios_grub partition | 12:06 |
home | so can I redo that? | 12:06 |
fsmithred | you could use the whole thing, but it's way bigger than it needs to be | 12:06 |
home | make it no fs and give it to grub | 12:06 |
fsmithred | yeah | 12:06 |
home | ok how do I do that (whole thing to grub) | 12:06 |
fsmithred | you'll have to delete sda2, then make it again and set it to type ef02 | 12:07 |
home | win obvs doesnt need it as it boots after I mkfs.fat32'd it from unmountable to it | 12:07 |
fsmithred | yeah, that was probably the win rescue partition | 12:07 |
fsmithred | other way to do this is to boot a live-cd and run gparted, if you prefer graphical env | 12:08 |
home | how does devuan usually do it | 12:09 |
fsmithred | ok, no h for help, ? for help in gdisk | 12:09 |
home | does it steal 1mb from the 1st partiion? | 12:09 |
fsmithred | devuan do what? | 12:09 |
home | when you make a non-ueitf boot | 12:09 |
fsmithred | I'm not sure how the regular installer makes the bios_grub partition | 12:09 |
fsmithred | the live installer lets you do it manually and warns you if you didn't do it. | 12:10 |
home | should I give up | 12:10 |
fsmithred | hell no | 12:10 |
home | I don't know how to do any of this | 12:10 |
fsmithred | is there any important data on the drive that isn't backed up somewhere? | 12:10 |
home | if I bios_grub the 16 mb partition, that will mess up windows right? | 12:10 |
fsmithred | shouldn't make it any worse than it already is | 12:10 |
home | how do I do it? | 12:10 |
fsmithred | you wiped whatever was on that partition | 12:11 |
fsmithred | gdisk /dev/sda | 12:11 |
fsmithred | then '?' to see the help | 12:11 |
home | ok im in gdisk | 12:11 |
fsmithred | just you you have an idea of what's there | 12:11 |
home | should i d: delete a partion | 12:11 |
fsmithred | d | 12:11 |
fsmithred | 2 | 12:11 |
fsmithred | n | 12:11 |
fsmithred | 2 | 12:12 |
fsmithred | there are some other questions in there that I'm skipping | 12:12 |
fsmithred | it asks about start and end sectors | 12:12 |
home | ok did d | 12:12 |
home | 2 | 12:12 |
home | n | 12:12 |
home | (partiotn number: 2-128: default 2 | 12:12 |
home | 2 | 12:12 |
fsmithred | usually defaults work, but your partitions are out of order, so I'm not sure | 12:12 |
fsmithred | ok so far | 12:12 |
home | now it's at the sector stuff | 12:12 |
fsmithred | what's it showing? | 12:13 |
home | First sector (34-250069646, default = 241604608) or {+-}sizeof{KMGTP} | 12:13 |
fsmithred | still thinking about this | 12:15 |
fsmithred | take the default (press ENTER) | 12:15 |
home | ok | 12:15 |
home | now says last sector | 12:15 |
fsmithred | +2M | 12:16 |
fsmithred | will make a 2mb partition | 12:16 |
home | (241604608-248049663, default = 24.. | 12:16 |
home | ok | 12:16 |
home | did +2M | 12:16 |
fsmithred | ok | 12:16 |
fsmithred | t | 12:16 |
fsmithred | for type | 12:16 |
home | Curent type is 'Linux Filesystem' | 12:16 |
fsmithred | and enter ef02 | 12:16 |
home | Hex code or guid Enter = 8300 | 12:17 |
fsmithred | ef02 | 12:17 |
home | Changed type of partion to BIOS BBoot partition | 12:17 |
fsmithred | cool | 12:17 |
fsmithred | w | 12:17 |
fsmithred | to write it to partition table | 12:17 |
home | the operation has completed successfully | 12:18 |
fsmithred | q | 12:18 |
fsmithred | grub-install /dev/sda | 12:18 |
fsmithred | update-grub | 12:18 |
home | no error reported | 12:18 |
fsmithred | should be able to reboot now | 12:19 |
home | (installing for i386 platform) | 12:19 |
fsmithred | oh, let it finish | 12:19 |
home | yesss gryb is back | 12:20 |
fsmithred | cool | 12:20 |
home | box hangs at stopping light display manager | 12:20 |
home | thank you for your help | 12:20 |
fsmithred | stopping? | 12:21 |
home | yea, it hangs for a few sec, didn't used to do this | 12:21 |
home | I think it might actually be hanging on network manager | 12:21 |
fsmithred | boot up or shut down? | 12:21 |
home | shutdown | 12:21 |
home | bc I have killed all alsa allready, so now it's the next on the list, ldm | 12:21 |
home | but after that IIRC is network manager | 12:22 |
fsmithred | what desktop are you using? | 12:22 |
home | xdm | 12:22 |
fsmithred | xfce? | 12:22 |
home | yes | 12:22 |
home | sorry | 12:22 |
home | xfce | 12:22 |
home | ill change the kill to kill network manager and see if the hanging stops | 12:22 |
fsmithred | using wicd or did you replace it with network-manager? | 12:23 |
home | i think net manager is running | 12:23 |
home | should it be? | 12:23 |
home | I had it as default | 12:23 |
fsmithred | you shouldn't need to have a script to kill these things | 12:23 |
fsmithred | default in xfce is wicd | 12:23 |
home | right after the alsa shutdown is the hanging... | 12:25 |
home | then it goes to "asking all remaining to stop" after a bit | 12:25 |
fsmithred | I can't think of what would do that. You don't have any encrypted partitions. | 12:26 |
fsmithred | maybe post on forum or mailing list about the shutdown problem. Might take some investigation. | 12:27 |
home | thank you for your help | 12:29 |
fsmithred | yw | 12:29 |
home | I was like "oh no I got SSD'd after I did all that work just to show the darktable people that you can run it on 32bit" | 12:30 |
home | but whatever the problem was you fixed it | 12:30 |
home | and the SSD didn't wip :D | 12:30 |
fsmithred | good | 12:30 |
home | (my last ssd wiped itself) | 12:30 |
home | (an intel) | 12:30 |
fsmithred | it was just the missing bios_grub partition | 12:30 |
fsmithred | yikes | 12:30 |
home | yea: I alwas code on HDDs now | 12:30 |
fsmithred | I got a crucial ssd that's been good for a year | 12:30 |
home | and do 3d stuff on HDDs too | 12:31 |
home | mine was good for 1/2 a year | 12:31 |
home | wiped on a power outage | 12:31 |
home | or a hard shutdown | 12:31 |
fsmithred | ouch | 12:31 |
home | with an HDD you can order the same type of HDD and maybe put your old platters in | 12:31 |
home | but ssd: it's gone | 12:31 |
home | also hdd seems to give warning before the end: and even if it's part broken you can still recover files | 12:32 |
home | that's what I've experianced | 12:32 |
home | I remeber one that could barely turn on but i got my files off of it | 12:32 |
home | SSDs don't give warning | 12:33 |
home | just "poof" | 12:33 |
home | fsmithred: I heard Bruce Perens uses devuan, is that true? | 12:34 |
fsmithred | I think it might be | 12:35 |
home | that's a big name | 12:35 |
fsmithred | he's on our mailing list and has had good things to say about devuan | 12:35 |
home | he was the head of debian once, right? | 12:35 |
fsmithred | yeah, or some key position | 12:35 |
home | I like devuan because it's the linux I sorta know | 12:36 |
home | systemd is alien and always changing | 12:36 |
home | and hangs | 12:36 |
fsmithred | same here. It's more like debian than debian is. | 12:36 |
home | thanks for getting this laptop booting again | 12:37 |
home | I'm printing out the convo so if it happens again I'll just read through the thing again :P | 12:37 |
home | now to see if darktables does tethering with nikon cameras as well as it did in 2015 | 12:38 |
home | (it did it pretty well back then) | 12:39 |
home | see you later | 12:39 |
home | and thanks again | 12:39 |
fsmithred | bye | 12:39 |
fsmithred | have fun | 12:39 |
ShorTie | E: Failed to fetch https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN/main/m/make-dfsg/make_4.2.1-1.2_arm64.deb Certificate verification failed | 13:51 |
ShorTie | blaaa.... | 13:51 |
cush | i got Version: 4.2.1-1.2 no probs | 13:55 |
openbsdt1i123 | which old debian had QT 1.42? was it potatoe? | 14:35 |
cush | we should add questions like that to a FOSS trivia bot database | 14:43 |
phillipsjk | grr. cron appeared not to trigger again. | 15:05 |
phillipsjk | ps -aux | grep cron shows it is in memory. | 15:06 |
* phillipsjk does not really have time to troubleshoot at the moment | 15:06 | |
phillipsjk | I did edit crontab yesterday. I wonder is the shutdown script does not give BTRFS time to properlay save work on a slow USB flash drive. It then "repairs" after boot, after cron reads the file. | 15:52 |
gnarface | phillipsjk: did you set the MAILTO variable? | 15:56 |
phillipsjk | no | 16:05 |
phillipsjk | mail is still unconfigured. | 16:06 |
phillipsjk | last time it started working after a reboot. I can only guess as to why. | 16:06 |
Hurgotron | Hmm. package xfwm4-themes seems to be missing from beowulf. (It's in ascii and seems to work fine.) Any idea why? | 16:12 |
gnarface | sorry no, Hurgotron | 16:13 |
gnarface | phillipsjk: i recommend setting MAILTO it should send some errors, it should be able to mail local users | 16:14 |
gnarface | i mean, you might have to install a MTA but it would work without a network connection | 16:14 |
gnarface | it should be easy to set exim4 to only do local mail | 16:16 |
gnarface | use dpkg-reconfigure | 16:16 |
ShorTie | E: Release file for http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/beowulf/InRelease is not valid yet | 16:46 |
ShorTie | (invalid for another 18370d 3h 25min 31s). Updates for this repository will not be applied. | 16:46 |
ShorTie | don't think i'll live that long, lol. | 16:46 |
gnarface | is your clock right? | 16:46 |
ShorTie | no it is not | 16:47 |
gnarface | heh, i'm pretty sure it has to be right | 16:59 |
gnarface | or at least nearby to right | 16:59 |
ShorTie | ya, twas at 1970 .. :/~ | 17:00 |
ShorTie | now i get, WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts. | 17:03 |
fsmithred | not stable means they might change the way it works | 17:09 |
fsmithred | which would break your scripts | 17:09 |
ShorTie | what is the best way to get rid of dash ?? | 17:14 |
ShorTie | it just doesn't work like bash | 17:14 |
gnarface | install bash | 17:14 |
fsmithred | so don't use it | 17:14 |
fsmithred | isn't bash your default shell? | 17:14 |
ShorTie | bash is already installed | 17:14 |
gnarface | oh, hmm... you can either dpkg-reconfigure something or you can update-alternatives something... | 17:14 |
ShorTie | and you can not --exclude=dash | 17:15 |
gnarface | oh duh | 17:16 |
gnarface | change it in your /etc/passwd | 17:16 |
fsmithred | Are you doing a debootstrap install? | 17:16 |
gnarface | you can just change it there by hand | 17:16 |
ShorTie | yes sir | 17:16 |
gnarface | i forget what the exact command is | 17:16 |
fsmithred | oh, usermod would work | 17:17 |
gnarface | debian wiki says it's chsh | 17:17 |
fsmithred | or that | 17:17 |
gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/Shell | 17:17 |
gnarface | google to the rescue | 17:17 |
fsmithred | 'aptitude why dash' on my system shows it's there indirectly because of devscripts | 17:17 |
gnarface | it was also mentioned to change /etc/adduser.conf so it's the default for newly created users (if it isn't already) | 17:18 |
fsmithred | oh, /bin/sh is a symlink to /bin/dash | 17:18 |
fsmithred | to dash (relative link) | 17:19 |
fsmithred | I would keep it, but not as my default | 17:19 |
ShorTie | just changing the symlink is not enough | 17:19 |
fsmithred | I wouldn't do that | 17:20 |
fsmithred | some scripts might be written to expect dash | 17:20 |
gnarface | doubt it but i guess that's possible | 17:20 |
ShorTie | most are wanting bash | 17:20 |
gnarface | hmmm | 17:21 |
ShorTie | thus why things do not work right down under | 17:21 |
ShorTie | can not use {} when making directories | 17:21 |
ShorTie | or *'s for chown | 17:22 |
gnarface | it seems to be a mix on my systems | 17:22 |
gnarface | some are pointing to dash, some bash | 17:22 |
ShorTie | it's the things in 'make install's that don't work right | 17:22 |
fsmithred | if you're running into this on the command line, change user's default shell. If you're running into this in your scripts, put bash on the shebang line | 17:23 |
ShorTie | can't do that | 17:23 |
ShorTie | to many and who knows where they are all | 17:23 |
fsmithred | where'd they come from? | 17:23 |
fsmithred | attempting to remove dash gives me this message: | 17:24 |
fsmithred | WARNING: Performing this action will probably cause your system to break! | 17:24 |
ShorTie | ya, it's the dash bug | 17:25 |
ShorTie | well known about | 17:25 |
gnarface | i would think there's some update-alternatives thing to run to change it but i'm not sure i remember | 17:26 |
ShorTie | i use | 17:26 |
ShorTie | echo "dash dash/sh boolean false" | debconf-set-selections | 17:27 |
ShorTie | DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive dpkg-reconfigure dash | 17:27 |
ShorTie | but that still does not get it all | 17:27 |
ShorTie | and it's why LFS does not like/use Debian | 17:30 |
gnarface | hmm.... definitely looks more complicated than anything i remember having to do... | 17:30 |
gnarface | oh | 17:32 |
ShorTie | be better then Debian, get rid of dash, lol. | 17:32 |
gnarface | maybe it really is just "dpkg-reconfigure dash" | 17:32 |
gnarface | try that ShorTie ^ | 17:32 |
ShorTie | debconf-show dash | 17:34 |
ShorTie | see that *, that is the problem | 17:34 |
ShorTie | "Before DebianSqueeze, Bash was used as the default non-interactive shell." | 17:45 |
ShorTie | can't be reverted ?? | 17:45 |
fsmithred | If you run dpkg-reconfigure dash, I'd like to know what happens after you tell it not to use dash. | 17:45 |
fsmithred | I was afraid to change it. | 17:45 |
fsmithred | does it ask what you want to use instead? | 17:46 |
ShorTie | nop, just asks yes or no | 17:46 |
fsmithred | ls -l /bin/sh | 17:46 |
ShorTie | says bash | 17:46 |
fsmithred | ok | 17:46 |
fsmithred | maybe that's the only other shell on the system | 17:47 |
ShorTie | but that does mean anything | 17:47 |
ShorTie | it is | 17:47 |
fsmithred | would have to install another shell and do it again to test | 17:47 |
fsmithred | I'm not that interested in the answer | 17:48 |
gnarface | the more important question is does it still boot? | 17:48 |
gnarface | it should and i believe it is a bug if it does not | 17:48 |
gnarface | but i'm not the authority on the matter... | 17:48 |
ShorTie | what does booting have to do with it ?? | 17:48 |
gnarface | the init scripts | 17:48 |
fsmithred | scripts run during boot | 17:48 |
ShorTie | yes it still boots | 17:49 |
gnarface | you checked since /bin/sh started pointing to bash? | 17:49 |
fsmithred | make sure you have another system to boot in case you need to fix an unbootable system | 17:49 |
fsmithred | live-usb or something | 17:49 |
fsmithred | installer media | 17:49 |
gnarface | the mini.iso is super useful | 17:50 |
ShorTie | got a half dozen pi's here, another system is no problemo | 17:50 |
ShorTie | can't use any of those iso's | 17:50 |
fsmithred | as long as you can mount the partition, so you can work on it | 17:51 |
filipdevuan_ | yesterday i have installed devuan beowulf with refracta installer and it's really nice :-) | 17:51 |
fsmithred | glad you like it | 17:51 |
filipdevuan_ | compared to live dvd iso that one is does installation really quick!! | 17:51 |
filipdevuan_ | yes :P | 17:51 |
fsmithred | seems to be a love it or hate it thing | 17:52 |
filipdevuan_ | i dont know why somebody would hate it | 17:52 |
filipdevuan_ | ?? ;o | 17:52 |
fsmithred | it's a lot different from debian(devuan)-installer | 17:52 |
gnarface | it imposes a lot of different defaults | 17:52 |
fsmithred | which ones annoy you the most? | 17:53 |
filipdevuan_ | but installed system is 10/10 | 17:53 |
filipdevuan_ | well live dvd installer takes like 30 minutes to install | 17:53 |
filipdevuan_ | that one took few minutes | 17:53 |
filipdevuan_ | it seems like it just copies the live iso stuff into hdd nothing else so it's really nice ;p | 17:54 |
fsmithred | which live dvd installer do you mean? | 17:54 |
filipdevuan_ | 4.1GB one | 17:54 |
fsmithred | desktop dvd iso | 17:54 |
filipdevuan_ | oh sorry no live | 17:54 |
filipdevuan_ | yeah | 17:54 |
fsmithred | ok, we don't call that a live system | 17:54 |
filipdevuan_ | yes yes i know my mistake :P | 17:55 |
fsmithred | :) | 17:55 |
fsmithred | debian-installer on a live-cd should do roughly the same thing. It's quick. | 17:55 |
fsmithred | I hope to include that someday in the not-too-distant future | 17:55 |
fsmithred | ShorTie, did you reboot yet? | 17:56 |
filipdevuan_ | debian-installer lets somebody choose desktop environment?? | 17:57 |
gnarface | it lets you choose whether or not to use a desktop environment at least | 17:58 |
filipdevuan_ | so it looks like that's the only difference then between refracta installer | 17:58 |
gnarface | i think it might also let you choose between a couple major ones | 17:58 |
gnarface | and control your partition layout... | 17:58 |
fsmithred | refractainstaller does not partition for you, and it's not set up to do raid or lvm | 17:59 |
fsmithred | it's possible to do those manually and run the cli installer, but that's not exactly intuitive. | 17:59 |
filipdevuan_ | oh glad i know a bit about partitions ;p | 17:59 |
filipdevuan_ | partitioning* | 17:59 |
filipdevuan_ | ok nvm thanks :) | 18:00 |
ShorTie | ok, rebooted for yucks | 18:00 |
ShorTie | oh ya, iso's don't really work for arm64 .. :/~ | 18:01 |
fsmithred | looks like it all works? | 18:01 |
gnarface | brb | 18:08 |
parazyd | If anyone wants to do a talk about Devuan, you're more than welcome: gopher://bitreich.org/1/con/2020 | 21:32 |
systemdlete | beta.devuan.org says that "Beowulf 3.0.0 is our current stable release." and that "ASCII 2.1 point release has now moved to oldstable status." | 21:34 |
systemdlete | But devuan.org says "ATTENTION: If you are testing Beowulf beta please use beta.devuan.org for relevant documentation. This branch of the website applies to ASCII, Devuan’s current stable release." | 21:34 |
systemdlete | oops? | 21:34 |
systemdlete | I have not seen an announcement for Beowulf GA release. | 21:35 |
systemdlete | I note that the mirrors still seem to point to beta ISOs. | 21:38 |
systemdlete | Did somebody "jump the shark" as so many millenials like to say nowadays? | 21:38 |
MinceR | i don't think that's what jumping the shark means | 21:39 |
DonkeyHotei | "jumping the shark" is a term from 40 years ago meaning "outliving relevance" | 21:40 |
systemdlete | I never heard that expression, even once, 40 years ago! | 21:40 |
DonkeyHotei | i did | 21:40 |
systemdlete | But I hear it all the time, here, on the Internet! | 21:40 |
DonkeyHotei | it has endured | 21:41 |
systemdlete | So, can anyone explain why my view of the devuan universe seems to be... uh, inconsistent? | 21:41 |
furrywolf | I think you're confusing "jumping the shark" with "jumping the gun". | 21:44 |
furrywolf | and the simple answer is that the beta site is, itself, not released yet. when the beta site becomes the main site, it will all make sense. | 21:44 |
systemdlete | I've heard them used interchangeably. | 21:44 |
systemdlete | Ah, I see. | 21:44 |
furrywolf | they are not interchangable, and mean entirely different things. | 21:45 |
furrywolf | anyone who is using them interchangably is, simply, wrong. lol | 21:45 |
systemdlete | Someone ought to put out a bulletin to let them know. I am only reporting... | 21:45 |
systemdlete | That can't be my fault. I hear it used, so I naturally use it the same way. If someone else is abusing the term, and I copy them, well... | 21:46 |
furrywolf | jumping the gun refers to starting a race before the firing gun is fired. that is, doing something too early. | 21:46 |
systemdlete | Yes, I know that. That expression has been around for as long as firing guns have been in existence. | 21:46 |
furrywolf | jumping the shark refers to a tv show (I can't remember which right now) doing some ridiculous plot involving a character jumping over a shark in a tank, because they'd ran out of ideas, no one was watching the show, their ratings were plummeting, and they were no longer relevant, so they were trying absurd things to try to stay relevant. | 21:47 |
systemdlete | I just figured that it had gone the way of "hot" which later became "cool"... or something confusing like that. | 21:47 |
systemdlete | Happy Days. I just looked it up. | 21:47 |
systemdlete | I guess from now on, I will research any new terms I hear. | 21:48 |
furrywolf | given as one means being too early, and the other gone on too long, they're pretty much opposites. lol | 21:48 |
systemdlete | It seems, yes. | 21:48 |
furrywolf | s/firing gun is fired/starting gun is fired/ | 21:48 |
systemdlete | whatever, I gotcha. | 21:49 |
* furrywolf shouldn't type while eating, increases brain-os. | 21:49 | |
systemdlete | also, you could get food all over your fur | 21:50 |
furrywolf | yep. always annoying. | 21:51 |
systemdlete | do you eat in your furry suit? | 21:51 |
systemdlete | can it be dry-cleaned? | 21:52 |
* furrywolf does not have a fursuit | 21:52 | |
systemdlete | of course not | 21:52 |
systemdlete | I didn't mean it that way | 21:52 |
furrywolf | no, you don't dry-clean them. usually you hand wash with mild soap and water. | 21:52 |
systemdlete | woolite? | 21:52 |
systemdlete | (sorry, didn't mean to get so... eh, personal) | 21:53 |
furrywolf | fursuits are polyester-based faux (fake) fur, polyurethane foam, and similar synthetic materials. you don't dry-clean them because the chemicals may dissolve the glue used to attach to the foam, the paints used for the eyes, or things like that. | 21:55 |
DonkeyHotei | #debianfork | 21:55 |
systemdlete | We must be getting close to a release candidate. | 21:55 |
specing | furrywolf is a candidate to release into the wild | 22:18 |
systemdlete | Unless furrywolf is full of bugs | 22:24 |
* furrywolf growls at systemdlete | 22:24 | |
* systemdlete runs away | 22:24 | |
meep_____ | LMFAO | 23:24 |
meep_____ | systemdlete, furrywolf, specing, bravo | 23:25 |
DonkeyHotei | if he is full of bugs, open a ticket | 23:27 |
meep_____ | furrywolf: are you full of bugs? | 23:27 |
systemdlete | DonkeyHotei: But he will know he is being tracked... | 23:29 |
* systemdlete runs off to debianfork | 23:29 | |
meep_____ | No just the bugs | 23:29 |
golinux | DonkeyHotei: furrywolf is not a he | 23:34 |
DonkeyHotei | hmm, i thought i saw self-reference otherwise, but maybe i'm thinking of someone else | 23:35 |
golinux | Would a he need a strapon? | 23:36 |
golinux | And we're way OT here. Take oit too the fork . . . | 23:36 |
MinceR | if they're not well endowed :> | 23:36 |
DonkeyHotei | searching my backlog of #debianfork shows only one match for that, and it wasn't clear | 23:37 |
DonkeyHotei | sorry | 23:37 |
fsmithred | cabin fever is spreading all over the world | 23:48 |
DonkeyHotei | also #debianfork | 23:49 |
fsmithred | anyone who's bored can test beowulf isos | 23:49 |
golinux | Yes. The stupidity on these channels is starting to get out of hand. | 23:52 |
golinux | (no pun intended) | 23:52 |
djph | golinux: was the stupidity in IRC ever really "in hand" ? | 23:54 |
meep_____ | More like in-paw | 23:54 |
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