DocScrutinizer05 | any spambot attacks recently? | 00:02 |
---|---|---|
DonkeyHotei | yes | 00:03 |
DonkeyHotei | just not here | 00:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I ask | 00:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | seems sigyn deals with those trolls adequately | 00:05 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if donnager fails to do same in #*-dev, just ping me | 00:06 |
crhylove | If I do all this: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/import/github.html | 00:10 |
crhylove | Can we get dolphin-emu in the official repos? | 00:10 |
TwistedFate | well this is disturbing | 00:10 |
TwistedFate | i keep getting these network disconnections, i cant ping or open web pages, but certain things still work, like irc or dota 2 O.o | 00:11 |
crhylove | Anybody here done a github to gitlab clone before? | 00:13 |
plasma41 | crhylove: dolphin-emu is already in the Devuan repository starting with 3.0 Beowulf | 00:15 |
crhylove | OH! duh. OK then. Yay! | 00:15 |
crhylove | Is it locked to an older version, or.... ? | 00:15 |
plasma41 | It's version 5.0. I don't know if that's the latest version or not. | 00:16 |
crhylove | plasma41, Yeah, that's 4 years old. There's been a TON of improvement since then. | 00:17 |
crhylove | https://dolphin-emu.org/download/ | 00:19 |
crhylove | The devs say use the beta versions. | 00:19 |
plasma41 | dolphin-emu is a package inherited from Debian. If you want a newer version in Devuan, the thing to do would be to get a newer version in Debian. | 00:20 |
crhylove | Yikes. OK. | 00:20 |
crhylove | cert for deb.devuan.org is broken (wrong common name) | 00:23 |
gnarface | crhylove: it's a dns round-robin, and not all of the hosts in the round-robin support https properly | 00:26 |
crhylove | Ah... | 00:27 |
gnarface | crhylove: (many of them are also mirrors for other distros) | 00:27 |
crhylove | Gotcha. Thanks. | 00:28 |
gnarface | np | 00:28 |
crhylove | Where's the "apt-get" repo for dolphin-emu currently? | 00:32 |
crhylove | I'm working with the devs, they might be willing to do the heavy lifting! | 00:32 |
crhylove | gnarface, ? :) | 00:33 |
gnarface | i'm not sure what you're asking | 00:33 |
gnarface | dolphin is in the repo | 00:33 |
crhylove | Right, but I'm trying to update the repo to a version that's not 4 years old. | 00:34 |
gnarface | oh, are you using ascii? | 00:34 |
crhylove | <booto> crhylove: when I ask about source, I meant accessible via 'apt' (e.g. apt-get source dolphin-emu) | 00:34 |
crhylove | I'm currently at work on a Windows machine. Sadly. It's a slow day. Happily. | 00:35 |
gnarface | oh i see | 00:35 |
plasma41 | crhylove: see https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dolphin-emu | 00:35 |
gnarface | hmmm | 00:36 |
gnarface | seems as though version 5.0 is the only version in debian | 00:36 |
gnarface | unless the -6 on the ceres one matters... | 00:37 |
crhylove | Correct. Debian is pointed at 5 years ago. LOL | 00:38 |
gnarface | there is a way to import an updated source tarball into a old src package then rebuild it | 00:49 |
gnarface | sometimes it works in a semi-automated fashion without patching stuff.. | 00:49 |
crhylove | gnarface, Go on.... | 00:50 |
gnarface | debhelper something | 01:00 |
gnarface | dh_builddeb | 01:01 |
gnarface | i think | 01:01 |
gnarface | not sure, but look into the debhelper tools | 01:01 |
gnarface | hmmm, no i'm wrong, crhylove, it's uupdate; https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/update.en.html#newupstream | 01:05 |
crhylove | So this could update our repos? | 01:05 |
gnarface | in theory | 01:06 |
gnarface | if the part in the grey box works without any other hand changes to the code then you're golden | 01:07 |
gnarface | it's sorta a litmus test in code quality | 01:07 |
crhylove | I'm not even sure how to do this. But I'm interested. | 01:07 |
gnarface | did you say you're on windows? | 01:08 |
gnarface | first thing to do would be to get a live image | 01:08 |
gnarface | put it on a usb key (or optical disk if you feel old school) | 01:08 |
gnarface | and start booting things with it | 01:08 |
crhylove | I can do that stuff at home (on Linux, etc.) probably not at work. :/ | 01:09 |
gnarface | a live image won't install anything unless you ask it to, it's more for testing and recovery | 01:10 |
gnarface | it doesn't touch the harddrive by default | 01:10 |
gnarface | so you might get away with it at work | 01:10 |
onefang | A locked down work computer might not let you boot strange things though. | 01:11 |
gnarface | true | 01:11 |
crhylove | I could probably do a live image in vbox. | 01:11 |
gnarface | oh, good idea | 01:11 |
gnarface | it would be sufficient to test something like the packaging | 01:12 |
crhylove | *IF* I could find a portable vbox, the one I used in the past seems broken. | 01:12 |
gnarface | is there qemu? | 01:12 |
gnarface | no there wouldn't be, nevermind | 01:12 |
crhylove | hmmmm I'll look for a diff portable virtualization package. | 01:12 |
gnarface | does vbox rely on systemd? | 01:12 |
crhylove | But vbox should be the best... | 01:13 |
gnarface | i think you might just need to change something or patch something to get it to work | 01:13 |
gnarface | or maybe that's the one where you had to use the wheezy version or the devuan version | 01:13 |
gnarface | check the forums | 01:13 |
gnarface | it has to have come up | 01:13 |
gnarface | or hang around here | 01:14 |
gnarface | best to do both | 01:14 |
TwistedFate | anyone here knows bind9 dns? | 01:15 |
TwistedFate | my broke a couple of days ago, 'named' fails to start :/ | 01:15 |
crhylove | Found this: http://greenvbox.org/downloads | 01:17 |
TwistedFate | ok looks like apparmor broke bind9, works now after making a change in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.named | 01:42 |
ullet_ | TwistedFate: i'd like a multi-dns-getter that pops up a notification when IPs mismatch | 02:22 |
TwistedFate | ullet_: oh, what's a multi-dns-getter? | 02:24 |
ullet_ | something that queries multiple dns servers when resolving the name for the system | 02:25 |
TwistedFate | ah | 02:25 |
ullet_ | it's a simple idea of mine | 02:25 |
TwistedFate | hmm, well depending on the number of dns servers, wouldn't that introduce slow responsiveness? | 02:26 |
ullet_ | you'd be limited to speed of the slowest response | 02:26 |
ullet_ | unless you set a timeout | 02:26 |
ullet_ | but you could issue the queries in parallel | 02:27 |
TwistedFate | ah, due to security or just accuracy-wise? | 02:29 |
ullet_ | security and curiosity | 02:29 |
ullet_ | i've seen a few sites with dns problems and it'd be interesting to see whether it's a propagation issue | 02:30 |
TwistedFate | hmm | 02:31 |
MinceR | i suppose you could also mix up the official ICANN system with some more freedom-respecting | 02:33 |
MinceR | s/me /mething / | 02:33 |
ullet_ | there's all kinds of dns client thingies but my idea is simple | 02:34 |
TwistedFate | wow, my connection is flaky today :/ | 02:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | homeoffice rushhour | 02:37 |
TwistedFate | i hate when i can't know for sure if it's my ISP or my equipment, i really do gotta make my own router these days | 02:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | mtr helps | 02:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | aka mytraceroute iirc | 02:39 |
TwistedFate | ah mtr, yes, useful thingy | 02:39 |
TwistedFate | what??! why is this running on my machine? Apr 28 02:40:10 devuan dbus-daemon[1897]: [system] Activating service name='org.freedesktop.PackageKit' requested by ':1.35' (uid=0 pid=7527 comm="/usr/bin/gdbus call --system --dest org.freedeskto") (using servicehelper) | 02:41 |
TwistedFate | Apr 28 02:40:10 devuan PackageKit: daemon start | 02:41 |
TwistedFate | Apr 28 02:40:10 devuan dbus-daemon[1897]: [system] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.PackageKit' | 02:41 |
TwistedFate | i just ran apt update | 02:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | freedesktop *sigh* | 02:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | the root of all evil | 02:46 |
onefang | You don't want to know what I think fdo stands for, it's quite rude. | 02:48 |
TwistedFate | hmm i'm running mtr now, i do seem to have packet loss | 02:50 |
TwistedFate | and it shows at my default gateway.. that means there's a packet loss between my computer and my router? | 02:51 |
ejr | what might be the reason that there is no wpa_supplicant command on my fresh minimal devuan install even though the package wpasupplicant is installed? | 13:27 |
ejr | nvm, it was because path wasnt set | 13:32 |
alexus | Please, can anyone tell me if a qemu image is available for beowulf? | 13:55 |
xrogaan | Haven't heard of any. Shouldn't it be trivial to create? | 13:57 |
alexus | <xrogaan>: yes... it was just to use a ready one and skip that step... | 14:10 |
xrogaan | if there is not one available on https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/ | 14:12 |
xrogaan | then there isn't one. | 14:12 |
xrogaan | It'll probably be made available once beowulf releases out of beta | 14:12 |
alexus | <xrogaan>: ok thanks | 14:13 |
fsmithred | I think jaromil was going to make some virtual images, but he's stuck in Italy now. | 14:55 |
xrogaan | best hopes for him | 15:01 |
xrogaan | jaromil: how are you doing btw? | 15:01 |
fsmithred | haven't heard from him in a couple weeks. I hope everyone is ok there. | 15:17 |
GyrosGeier | I usually install with the normal installer in qemu | 15:20 |
fsmithred | me too. Or with the live installer, which takes only 10 minutes. | 15:20 |
GyrosGeier | so I just create an empty harddisk image of sensible size, and make an image from that | 15:21 |
fsmithred | you get what you want that way | 15:21 |
TwistedFate | does devuan plan to completely remove poetterware and freedesktop cancer or just systemd? | 15:22 |
GyrosGeier | not sure about plans | 15:22 |
GyrosGeier | but in general, I'd prefer not having dbus | 15:23 |
* ullet feeds Geier some wiener würstchen | 15:23 | |
GyrosGeier | pulseaudio would be fine IMO, if it weren't dependent on dbus | 15:23 |
MinceR | if it didn't exist | 15:23 |
GyrosGeier | the design of pulse is okay | 15:23 |
ullet | i haven't found a good reason for dbus to exist | 15:24 |
MinceR | its purpose is to circumvent copyleft, but in a poorly designed and poorly implemented manner :> | 15:24 |
MinceR | s/cop/strong cop/ | 15:25 |
GyrosGeier | the design is basically COM, without the binary compatibility parts that make COM fast | 15:25 |
fsmithred | there are no plans to remove all freedesktop stuff at this time. | 15:25 |
fsmithred | goal is to provide debian without systemd, as it's been since the beginning | 15:26 |
GyrosGeier | and with runtime registration only | 15:26 |
fsmithred | it is possible to run without dbus. | 15:26 |
GyrosGeier | systemd basically replaces the registry in that schema, by taking static registration and turning it into runtime registration | 15:26 |
fsmithred | nodbus: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158 | 15:27 |
GyrosGeier | this is mostly a manpower issue | 15:28 |
fsmithred | what is? | 15:28 |
bgstack15 | regarding qemu, I use libvirt+qemu and have a preseed file and a one-liner for standing up a devuan VM in 40 minutes in a full, automated install. | 15:28 |
bgstack15 | I can share deets if anyone cares. | 15:28 |
GyrosGeier | how much crap we can remove | 15:28 |
MinceR | does COM involve a daemon that's designed so that you're supposed to reboot if you need to restart the daemon? | 15:28 |
TwistedFate | what's COM? | 15:29 |
MinceR | some microsoft crap | 15:29 |
GyrosGeier | MinceR, COM uses the registry, and programs look up stuff individually most of the time | 15:29 |
TwistedFate | wait, what? do we havev COM on gnu+linux? on devuan? | 15:29 |
MinceR | sounds like dbugs is not "basically COM" :> | 15:29 |
GyrosGeier | it does the same thing | 15:30 |
MinceR | there are many different ways to do IPC | 15:30 |
MinceR | even to do RPC :> | 15:30 |
GyrosGeier | true, but you need an object broker | 15:30 |
ullet | sockets and we liked it | 15:30 |
GyrosGeier | yes, with sockets you use the file system as an object broker :) | 15:31 |
GyrosGeier | nobody really used that though | 15:31 |
ullet | hunt did! | 15:31 |
GyrosGeier | except maybe gpg | 15:31 |
MinceR | i thought many programs use sockets :> | 15:31 |
GyrosGeier | true, but rather few of them use named unix sockets as contact points | 15:32 |
gnarface | i suspect that's more common than you think | 15:32 |
GyrosGeier | Sun built portmapper so people could ask "what port is the service X running on?" | 15:32 |
GyrosGeier | which initially had the same "reboot needed" issues as dbus does now, but they added a "reexec yourself and pass the registration state in the environment" function | 15:33 |
GyrosGeier | I expect dbus to get the same feature eventually | 15:33 |
GyrosGeier | you can still break Sun RPC badly by restarting the portmapper externally instead of telling it to restart itself | 15:34 |
TwistedFate | huh, can't remove dbus | 15:34 |
TwistedFate | stuff complains about it | 15:34 |
fsmithred | TwistedFate, it's easier if you start without it and add stuff. | 15:38 |
TwistedFate | woah | 15:39 |
fsmithred | or you could try a no-dbus live-iso: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/ | 15:39 |
TwistedFate | i can't remove this thing at all | 15:39 |
TwistedFate | after adding a couple of deps to be removed, it now wants to remove a whole bunch | 15:40 |
TwistedFate | Jesus! | 15:40 |
fsmithred | also helps if you install stuff without Recommends | 15:40 |
TwistedFate | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/87f51f57/ | 15:43 |
TwistedFate | ^ that's what it wants to remove :/ | 15:43 |
MinceR | i doubt dbugs will get any major new features, considering that they first tried to "just throw it in the kernel" as kdbus and now they're writing bus1 | 15:44 |
MinceR | you can't restart a service without rebooting if that service is part of the kernel => problem solved | 15:44 |
GyrosGeier | yes | 15:45 |
GyrosGeier | also I have no idea why they're not just (ab)using netlink | 15:45 |
GyrosGeier | I mean, that's kind of what netlink is supposed to do | 15:46 |
GyrosGeier | I'm not sufficiently bored to make a reference implementation | 15:46 |
TwistedFate | i also have a *lot* of held back packages, can seomeone please help? :3 | 15:54 |
TwistedFate | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/87f51f57/ < these | 15:55 |
bgstack15 | that is same link as before, just the "these will be REMOVED" | 15:56 |
TwistedFate | oh | 16:06 |
TwistedFate | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/f7904163/ | 16:06 |
TwistedFate | sorry | 16:06 |
fsmithred | TwistedFate, when was the last time you did update/upgrade? | 16:25 |
fsmithred | brb | 16:27 |
TwistedFate | fsmithred: today | 16:28 |
fsmithred | you getting that output when you try to remove dbus? | 16:29 |
TwistedFate | fsmithred: no, that's when i try to upgrade my system, this is what i get when i try to remove dbus along a couple of other deps https://paste.debian.net/hidden/87f51f57/ | 16:29 |
fsmithred | WTF!!! firefox-esr does not need pulseaudio... | 16:29 |
fsmithred | except when it does | 16:30 |
fsmithred | yeah, I saw that one. Don't try to remove dbus. Better to build up without it. | 16:30 |
fsmithred | why does my firefox-esr need apulse to get sound? It works fine after a reboot, but then dies at some point. | 16:31 |
fsmithred | restart desktop didn't help. I'm going to reboot. brb. | 16:31 |
fsmithred | TwistedFate, did you install your desktop when you installed the system, or did you do minimal install and add stuff later? | 16:38 |
TwistedFate | fsmithred: did expert install then installed the desktop | 16:39 |
fsmithred | so you're stuck with a lot of automatically installed stuff | 16:40 |
fsmithred | you could try apt-get remove dbus | 16:40 |
fsmithred | and don't do autoremove | 16:40 |
fsmithred | and then apt-get install a few key packages from the autoremove list | 16:40 |
fsmithred | but that will probably be a pain in the ass | 16:41 |
mason | Yanking out dbus will result in lots of breakage. Even in an environment like Gentoo stuff just implicitly depends on it. Shouldn't, but does. | 16:41 |
gnarface | i would just let it remove everything, then put back what i want manually (with --no-install-recommends) | 16:41 |
gnarface | learn the lesson NOT to take the pre-selected desktop configuration if you're smart enough to have opinions about it | 16:42 |
fsmithred | either that or start over again on a new partition | 16:43 |
gnarface | yea, also an option. in some cases that would be faster but TwistedFate has a decent connection | 16:43 |
mason | The issue is that dbus is baked into packages. You need to actually rebuild things to do this cleanly. | 16:43 |
fsmithred | I was surprised at how many packages I could install without dbus | 16:43 |
gnarface | yea i think you can pull it off if you don't care about graphical logins | 16:44 |
fsmithred | some conveniences are missing | 16:44 |
mason | gnarface: Graphical stuff is probably the biggest population that quietly uses it, yeah. | 16:44 |
fsmithred | no wicd or other network manager | 16:44 |
gnarface | firefox and thunderbird wouldn't be able to find each other automatically. clicking on a mailto: link would require you making an explicit choice. (shrug) | 16:44 |
fsmithred | that never works for me anyway | 16:45 |
gnarface | Steam requires it even though it makes it crash | 16:45 |
gnarface | it's also unclear if Steam really makes any better use of it than firefox | 16:46 |
TwistedFate | as long as my steam/games work, i'll be fine without dbus | 16:46 |
ullet | i'll just go ahead and assume the steam client requires dbus | 16:47 |
TwistedFate | but this is such a pain, having to remove all that stuff and then re-install everything | 16:47 |
TwistedFate | ullet: i don't think it does, i installed steam on my second machine and i don't think i have dbus there, i'll have to check | 16:48 |
TwistedFate | why is dependency hell still a problem in this day and age? | 16:49 |
TwistedFate | >.< | 16:49 |
fsmithred | task-whatever-desktop | 16:49 |
fsmithred | the installer is set up so that selecting a small number of metapackages gives you a large number of installed packages | 16:50 |
fsmithred | be 1337 and start small, then add what you want without all the metapackages | 16:50 |
slvr | debootstrap your desktop! | 16:51 |
TwistedFate | how can i know what's a meta package and what's not? | 16:52 |
fsmithred | aptitude show <package> | 16:52 |
TwistedFate | well, shit, steam does depend on dbus after all | 16:52 |
fsmithred | cool | 16:53 |
TwistedFate | equery d dbus | 16:53 |
TwistedFate | * These packages depend on dbus: | 16:53 |
TwistedFate | games-util/steam-client | 16:53 |
TwistedFate | that's among other things, there's alos xorg-server, firefox 75.. | 16:54 |
TwistedFate | i'm shocked | 16:54 |
fsmithred | firefox-esr will run without it | 16:56 |
aitor | hi | 21:33 |
Guest78969 | About dbus... QasMixer doesn't depend on it | 21:37 |
Guest78969 | and concerning to network-managers, most of them depend strongly on dbus: network-manager, wicd, connman | 21:38 |
slvr | wicd works fine | 21:39 |
Guest78969 | i tested simple-netaid-cdk under void linux by suggestion of steve litt | 21:39 |
slvr | doesn't need much to reimplement though | 21:39 |
Guest78969 | *wicd works fine*, mmmh... | 21:39 |
slvr | writing wifi configs isn't hard either | 21:39 |
slvr | if you want to just use it unmanaged | 21:40 |
fsmithred | does simple-netaid need dbus? | 21:40 |
Guest78969 | if you give a try to void linux, you'll find dbus installed but disabled | 21:40 |
Guest78969 | because void linux uses runit | 21:40 |
Guest78969 | fsmithred: simple-netaid works without dbus | 21:41 |
fsmithred | cool. I should add it to my nodbus build | 21:41 |
Guest78969 | this week i'll publish the first releases of gnuinos | 21:41 |
Guest78969 | gnuinos jessie, including simple-netaid-cdk | 21:42 |
fsmithred | first beowulf? | 21:42 |
fsmithred | jessie??? | 21:42 |
Guest78969 | a server edition, without Xorg | 21:42 |
Guest78969 | yes, jessie | 21:42 |
fsmithred | better get her out before june | 21:42 |
Guest78969 | and shortly ascii too | 21:43 |
fsmithred | you have simple-netaid packages somewhere? | 21:46 |
Guest78969 | yes, for jessie: http://packages.gnuinos.org/?dir=gnuinos/pool/main/s/simple-netaid | 21:48 |
fsmithred | none for beowulf yet? | 21:48 |
Guest78969 | i have the sources for beowulf | 21:49 |
fsmithred | on git? I could try building it. | 21:49 |
Guest78969 | i'll give you a link to the packages tomorrow, today i've been working on the kernel of gnuinos beowulf | 21:50 |
fsmithred | ok, thanks | 21:50 |
Guest78969 | fsmithred: http://gnuinos.org/simple-netaid-cdk/ | 21:53 |
Guest78969 | simple-netaid worked under void linux | 21:54 |
fsmithred | got it, thanks! | 21:54 |
Guest78969 | fsmithred: i'll be here tomorrow, i don't work this week | 21:56 |
Guest78969 | bye | 22:01 |
tmberg | Hi! | 22:21 |
tmberg | What is Devuan's equivalent of: deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib | 22:21 |
tmberg | And: deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ sid main non-free contrib | 22:22 |
mason | tmberg: https://www.devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list | 22:23 |
tmberg | Hm.. | 22:30 |
tmberg | https://pastebin.com/gMUArE0V ? | 22:38 |
gnarface | tmberg: http://paste.debian.net/1143639/ | 22:40 |
tmberg | gnarface: You mean Ceres? | 22:48 |
tmberg | Gah. | 22:48 |
tmberg | Nvm. | 22:48 |
gnarface | tmberg: no, i mean ceres. i don't know if it's case-insensitive. i haven't tried. | 22:50 |
tmberg | https://pastebin.com/ghLqKQBX ? | 22:52 |
gnarface | tmberg: it'll work but don't do that. those lines are partially redundant and even upstream advises against using "unstable" instead of the release codename | 22:55 |
gnarface | tmberg: also, the country-code subdomain names are deprecated and should all point to the same place anyway | 22:55 |
gnarface | tmberg: use the example i gave you literally | 22:56 |
tmberg | gnarface: Ok. So.. https://pastebin.com/K0P0eGYe | 23:01 |
gnarface | tmberg: yes, either of those will work. you only need one or the other | 23:11 |
ebisu | I want to install Wine 5.X staging from https://computingforgeeks.com/how-to-install-wine-on-debian/ , but I cannot do so because of naming conventions regarding beowulf vs buster. Is there any way i can achieve this? | 23:22 |
tmberg | gnarface: Thanks! | 23:24 |
plasma41 | o/ | 23:24 |
gnarface | ebisu: it works if you' | 23:27 |
gnarface | ebisu: it works if you're careful* | 23:27 |
gnarface | tmberg: no problem | 23:28 |
gnarface | ebisu: (comment out the devuan lines) | 23:28 |
gnarface | ebisu: (you might have to get some the dependencies manually, but they should mostly overlap with the native wine package's dependencies) | 23:29 |
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